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Windsor77

Windsor77: Celexa - it's time for peace

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Windsor77

I have another question for the group.  What if I want to stabilize in order to stay on an ssri?  

 

Like it or not, before I monkeyed with the works, lexapro worked incredibly well for my OCD and anxiety, aside for some mild weight gain.  

 

What if if I want to switch back to an equivalent dose of lexapro in order to stabilize and find the lowest therapeutic dose, then stay on it?  

 

Aside from saying a collective, “don’t”, is there any advice supporting this?  

How do we know going back won’t work?

 

 

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Happy2Heal
1 hour ago, Windsor77 said:

 

 

Aside from saying a collective, “don’t”, is there any advice supporting this?  

How do we know going back won’t work?

 

 

 

"we" don't know if it will work or not.

 

I can share my experience, for what that's worth.

I was on zoloft, then celexa, and then lexapro ( I think I took zoloft for about a year and celexa for about a year before switching to lexapro when it first hit the market in 2002, I think it was?)

 

 

i was on lexapro for a long time. (see my signature for time line)

Due to the side effects (esp emotional numbing and wt gain) I tried to go off it at least 3 times- rapidly reducing the dose or stopping cold turkey because I didn't know any better.

 

one time I was off the lexapro (and some other psych meds) for a total of 7 mos.  I was put on a beta blocker because my heart rate was so high the entire 7 mos. and I suffered from extreme anxiety which I now know was WD but I had no clue back then.

 

after a full 7 mos off, I went back on the lexapro at my previous dose of 20 mgs and was doing fine in less than a week,

Not long after this I was able to stop taking the beta blocker.

 

I stayed on the lexapro for several more years before deciding that I wanted off of it, and tried again, still not knowing about withdrawal (all my docs said there was no such thing)

 

so, from my experience only, it is certainly possible to go back on the drug and be "ok".

 

all of my withdrawal symptoms went away and I was just dealing with the side effects from then on.

 

there's absolutely no way to predict if you will be ok if you do this. 

 

lexapro is a very strong drug. If I had known back then, what I know now, I would have tapered off of it extremely slowly.

 

the decision is always yours.

 

Edited to add: I would strongly suggest that if you're going to choose between celexa and lexapro, you go with the weaker of the two, the celexa

 


 

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Windsor77

Thanks @Happy2Heal

Definitely food for thought.  I too wish I wouldn’t have stopped lexapro CT back in October, nor switched incorrectly (thanks doc) from 50mg Zoloft to 10mg of celexa. 

Im not having any anxiety now, nor palpitations or rumination.  Just the tremor and twitching and zaps are what are so hard to continue to endure.  Since I’ve since been on Zoloft and now celexa, I am tempted to try it again at maybe 5 mg to see what would happen.   

 

 

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Altostrata

What was your last reduction, and when? Which symptoms got worse, and when?

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Happy2Heal
3 minutes ago, Windsor77 said:

Just the tremor and twitching and zaps are what are so hard to continue to endure.  Since I’ve since been on Zoloft and now celexa, I am tempted to try it again at maybe 5 mg to see what would happen.   

 

 

oh those are your only symptoms? not to make light of them but compared to acute WD that's really not bad, and if you could possibly find a way to hang on, it would likely be to your advantage to keep going to get  off the drugs and be done with them

 

but that's just my thinking- my opinion. it took me a VERY long time to get to the point where I realized I didn't need these chemicals in my body so I'm not one to push someone else to make a decision they are not ready for, but  I look at it this way:

 

you were not on these drugs for very long (see my history, that's a long time to be on psych meds lol) 

you are probably younger than I am, and young people tend to heal quicker 

 

your chances of your symptoms abating and at least diminishing fairly soon are very good

your chances of getting off these drugs by going slowly to minimize symptoms are very very good

 

with the wisdom of hindsight, If I were you, I'd hold where you are and NOT updose or go back on a drug.

that's just me.

I can certainly understand if you are feeling uncomfortable, wanting that discomfort to end.

but heck, you've come this far, why not give yourself some time to hold and stabilize and see how you feel in a few days?

 

maybe try  some different non drug coping skills (sorry you probably already have, honestly I am just responding to your last post without reading back to see what you've been doing so forgive me for that)

 

it all depends on why you wanted off the drug in the first place

 

it's easy to lose sight of that when you're not feeling well and you're not sure how much longer your symptoms will last

 

 

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Happy2Heal
On 12/13/2018 at 2:56 PM, Windsor77 said:

 Now- by CNS is broken. With no healing in sight.  

 

your CNS is NOT broken and while it seems like healing is not within reach, it is likely closer than you think

 

 

some of us have had an increase in symptoms just before a break thru to a new, higher level of healing, of feeling much better

 

you're in a wave, it will end. the symptoms are signs that your brain is doing the hard work of putting things back the way they belong

 

the person you think you were on lexapro is likely not real. I felt like I was this cheerful outgoing person on lexapro and while in the worst of my WD I would complain to my long term friends, that I should go back on the drug, so that I'd be back to the happy go lucky person I used to be.

they all laughed, they said i was never happy and instead was quite depressed, anxious and empty feeling

 

this may not apply to you, I don't know

I had a very distorted view of how I was while on the drugs

 

they made me very unaware of things that were happening, and that felt somewhat safe, I guess? but it' wasn't reality and the numbness and lack of true emotions made me think I'd be better off dead.

 

again, my story not yours but maybe there's something in it that will help you?

 

i hope so

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Windsor77

@Altostrata Last reduction was 3 weeks ago. From 6.5 mg to 5 mg. 

I started to notice the brain fog setting in at about 2.5 weeks. Until then, I felt remarkable. With most symptoms gone or dissipated.   Then the tremor began to be much more noticeable.  Same with the nerve jerks when falling asleep and random muscle twitches.  My neck is tight and I feel slightly dizzy, and I have slight rocking motion when I sit  up straight.  

 

@Happy2Heal - I am currently on Celexa.   It isn’t getting rid of the tremor.   I made it through the acute withdrawal during June-early September.  But the continued neurological side effects are perpetuating my fear of disease.   It’s like being arachnophobic and living with a huge tarantula on your shoulder every day.   Also- I have no desire to do anything.  I just want to sleep.  It sucks. 

 

I did not have the same type of experience you did with lexapro.  I felt normal.  Not irritable, not low, never depressed, not over worrying, I was immersed in my job, my family and my hobbies, and I looked forward to new adventures with positive anticipation.   My anxiety and ocd tendencies were remarkably and healthily absent.  Not so much right now. 

That is what I need back.    With no end in sight for this, and a long life left to go in my early 40’s, the prospects of resigning myself to feeling this low and disinterested in the great things in life doesn’t sound promising.  

 

I have been been on these drugs for 9 years.   That’s a long time to me. 

 

I sincerely appreciate your thoughts and sharing your story. It has helped. 

 

 

Edited by Windsor77

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ChessieCat
48 minutes ago, Windsor77 said:

Last reduction was 3 weeks ago. From 6.5 mg to 5 mg. 

 

That is more than a 10% reduction.  6.5mg x 0.9 = 5.85mg.

 

If the symptoms are bearable you could hold until things settle down.

 

If the symptoms are unbearable then you could try a very tiny updose.  Even 0.25mg might be enough to take the edge of the symptoms.  It's better to increase by a small amount and then increase bit more if necessary than to risk increasing by too much.

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  Keep daily symptoms notes so you can see how the increase is affecting your symptoms.

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Windsor77

I updosed to 5.2mg last night.  I’m gonna hold here.  Jerks were bad this morning waking up.  Moderate muscle twitching today.  Still feel very very mild tremor during any exertion. 

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Windsor77

Been a decent day.   Not much twitching.  Not much head fog or headache.   

 

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ChessieCat
5 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

I updosed to 5.2mg last night.

 

Please update your drug signature whenever you make a change so it remains current and we can see your drug history at a glance and not have to read back through your posts.  Thank you.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

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Gridley
On 12/14/2018 at 3:20 PM, Windsor77 said:

 Or is my rapid taper the culprit?  In that case, once again, I beg the question, how much could I safely updose to stabilize?  Or should I hang here for 3 more weeks to try to stabilize?

 

 

It looks like your rapid taper was the culprit.  Your drop from 7.0 to 5.0 was an almost 30% drop, far too much.  You could updose with an additional 0.5 mg.  We always recommend a very small updose to start.  Too much can be destabilizing--your brain has made some accommodations to the new dose.  

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Altostrata
22 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

Last reduction was 3 weeks ago. From 6.5 mg to 5 mg. 

I started to notice the brain fog setting in at about 2.5 weeks.

 

Your reduction of 23% was too much for your nervous system. If I were you, I'd updose to 5.5mg and see if that helps. Let us know how you're doing.

 

As you know, we recommend reductions of only 10% per month.

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Windsor77

Update.  Feeling marvelous.  Feel like I am getting back to my normal state.   Still some very minor residual shakiness, but even jerks at bedtime are continuing to decline.   Holding at 5.2 indefinitely.   Still no alcohol or caffeine.   I must stress that I think the alcohol was a MAJOR culprit in the continuation of symptoms for me.   I just realized that it was 11:45 am and I hadn’t thought about AD WD until the moment I decided to update my status.

 

Happy Christmas and Merry Holidays to all.   Be strong and don’t let this beat you.  It gets better after time.  

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ChessieCat

And Merry Christmas to you too.

 

That's good news that you are feeling improvement.  Patience pays off.

 

Please add the date you reduced to your drug signature.  Thank you.

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Windsor77

Update. Feeling very very good.  Time off work has added to my lack of stress.  Still occasional very minor jerks at bedtime or am.  Minor headache from to time, little bit of pressure behind my eyes at times.  Otherwise clearheaded and great with no fatigue feeling or other symptoms.   No alcohol or caffeine.  I believe the combination of my reduction to 5.2mg and total removal of alcohol have helped me immensely.   I am just hanging at this dose for a while.  I am stable and nearly back to normal. 

 

I cant believe it took 13 months to get here, but I am here.  I went to two parties over the past two nights.  Lots of drinking and camaraderie, but I abstained.  No one cared.  I am glad to be making this change in my life as well.  Alcohol was fun in my 20’s, but became my anxiety relief during my 30’s.  Sometimes to excess.  It never interfered with my life, but my little voice always said, “you are drinking too much and too,frequently.”   This is my silver lining so far from my ADWD experience. 

 

 

Happy new year and healing to all!

W77

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ChessieCat
On 12/21/2018 at 8:12 AM, ChessieCat said:

Please add the date you reduced to your drug signature.  Thank you.

 

Date please:  5.2 mg citalopram liquid - current

 

4 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

I went to two parties over the past two nights.  Lots of drinking and camaraderie, but I abstained.  No one cared.

 

"No one cared."  It shouldn't have made any difference even if they did.  They aren't living in your body and you need to do/not do what is necessary for your own well being.  And just think, no hangover.

 

Happy New Year!

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Windsor77

@ChessieCat - see right above my 5.2 entry. 

 

I reduced on 11/23/18. 

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ChessieCat

It would be better if you put the start date the the front of the dose.  The mods do a lot of reading and we like to be able to glance at the drug sig and not have to try spent time trying to find the information.

 

date 7mg citalopram liquid

date 5.2mg citalopram liquid - current

 

Thank you.

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JackieDecides
On 12/30/2018 at 11:41 AM, Windsor77 said:

 I am stable and nearly back to normal.

 

I am so happy for you @Windsor77 🤗

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Windsor77

Hi all,

having a mild recurrence of the morning/evening thumb and big toe hyping jerks, and a little bit of a return of the twitching.  Very mild feeling of shakiness.   Last window started around 3 weeks ago. 

I would not call this a wave at all, though it is still frustrating to take a step or two backward.  I  am dealing with this via breathing and relaxation techniques, my hobbies, and distracting myself if I find myself obsessing about the symptoms. 

Life is amazing compared to 6 months ago.  Hopefully, it will continue to improve. 

W77

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Windsor77

Hey all,

Checking in.  Still on 5.2mg of citalopram liquid.  Still about the same as my post from 10 days ago. Symptoms are mild, and sometimes distracting but frustrating.  Still wondering if they are from the citalopram or from WD.   I’m very very stable.   Still not even considering the idea of reducing yet.  Maybe after another couple months.  

 

To all new members and readers, hang in there!   Stability is the key.  Don’t go too fast like I did.  

 

Hope  and Healing to all. 

 

W77

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JackieDecides
On 1/19/2019 at 8:35 AM, Windsor77 said:

I’m very very stable.

 

that's good!  I'm glad you can serve as an example so others won't go too fast. 

 

hope and healing back to you! 😍

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Windsor77

Update.  Feeling great for past 2 days. Barely any twitches. No shakiness or tremor feelings.   They just kind of have been fading.  I really didn’t notice.  Symptoms are just kind of slowly reducing.  No routine changes that I can identify to cause the reduction.     I’m not complaining.  I feel totally normal. 

Hope that it lasts for a while. 

 

W77

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Altostrata
On 1/19/2019 at 8:35 AM, Windsor77 said:

Symptoms are mild, and sometimes distracting but frustrating.  Still wondering if they are from the citalopram or from WD.

 

What symptoms are those? Are they better or worse after you take citalopram?

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Windsor77

@Altostrata  symptoms are same as I have been reporting since I joined, general shakiness feeling, and mild tremor in muscles when exerting.  None when still. Random muscle twitching.   Hypnic jerks when falling asleep and awaking in big toes/feet and thumbs/hands.    No correlation to meds.  I take same dose 5.2mg liquid at same time every evening. 

 

Im not trying to complain.  As I’ve been good for several days.  I am worlds apart from where I was back in July.   Mentally I am fully out of withdrawal.  Just the remaining CNS related issues.   My instinct tells me that 5.2mg should not be enough to cause the twitching and shakiness.  But I’m not sure.   I still wonder about awitching back to equivalent Lexapro. 

 

 

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Altostrata

What are you taking in magnesium and fish oil?

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Windsor77

@Altostrata

1200mg fish oil

125mg magnesium citrate 

daily

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Windsor77

Update. Still feeling good!  Twitching is still here and generally mild.   Jerks at bedtime were noticeable this morning. And I have been feeling a little tense in the CNS for the past couple of days.  Definitely still holding at 5.2 mg.  Wondering when I should consider beginning to taper again.  @Altostrata @ChessieCat  Do you have any thoughts on that?  I’ve been on 5.2 since dec 14th.  Stable other than CNS side effects (or wd).  Thinking of a slow drop to 5mg. Hold for a few weeks. I feel so normal mentally that I’m leery to drop.  Still wondering about going back to lexapro. 

 

thoughts? 

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Altostrata

Hi, Windsor.

 

Fish oil intake is often 2 capsules 3 times a day, for a total of 6 capsules or around 3600mg EPA + DHA. You'll have to look on the label to see the DHA + EPA content of your fish oil.

 

Magnesium is more effective for calming and relaxation when taken in small doses throughout the day, such as half 125mg tablet several times a day. 

 

Are you twitching or jerking as you're falling asleep? See 

 

 

Sure, you could make a cut in citalopram. How about sneaking it down to 5mg and see what happens?

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Windsor77

@Altostrata

i will look at the fish oil suggestions to see about increasing.  

Same for magnesium. Perhaps one tab twice a day. 

Regarding the jerk/twitching- I only notice this when laying in bed about to fall asleep, or when just waking up. Once I’m up, I don’t experience it.    

Over the past couple of days, I’d say I’m having a very mild wave with these symptoms returning after about a month or more with little symptoms.  Strange. But no anxiety with this at all. Mild pulse increase noticed at times, but no adrenaline feelings or rumination.  

Anyway- I have used the music and relaxation sounds a lot over the years.   It works, but not really for the twitch feelings. 

Inwill try the .2mg reduction for a month or so to see what happens.  Staying at 5.2 is responsible  for my stability. No question.   I have learned that I am gonna have to take it really slow on my taper. 

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Aquarius

So happy for you.... i can relate to the shakiness or feeling of injecting caffeine even though i dont drink it ...i have had it all day its like my system is over stimulated ...

Wishing you well on your journey you certainly have given me some hope ...

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ChessieCat
8 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

Regarding the jerk/twitching- I only notice this when laying in bed about to fall asleep, or when just waking up.

 

I get them too sometimes.  They are called hypnic or hypnagogic jerks.  Sometimes they are quite mild and occasionally they are quite strong and last longer.  I don't stress about them.  I know what they are and I just let them happen.  I don't try and stop them.  I actually think it's quite funny when they happen, it reminds me a dog or cat twitching in their sleep.

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Windsor77

Yeah- but it’s still frustrating.  I don’t know whether this and the muscle twitches during the day are from the celexa, or the lack of it.  I really just want it to leave.   Like I said I had a decently long reprieve from it.   Very demoralizing when it comes back. 

 

Side tracks the progress on the mental side. 

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Windsor77

Made the drop to 5 mg two nights ago. I’m gonna stay here for a month or more to see if there are any increases in the anxiety or other symptoms.   I have found that I am pretty sensitive to changes.   We’ll see.   

Otherwise, still have the mild twitching and mild jerks when falling asleep and waking.   I fear those will just have to be with me permanently.  But time will tell. 

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Snowyowl16

Hi Windsor, Just reading some of your thread. I too am going through citalapram WD hell. Is the tremor you speak of in your hands? I have had a hand tremor for years and feel it is from the citalapram. I even had an MRI to rule out other causes. The neurologist put me on propranolol for it but it doesn't seem to help although it may be worse without it. I also wonder if the symptoms I am having are from too much or not enough medication or serotonin. I am at 12mg of citalapram down from 20 mg almost a year ago. The nausea and tremors are among my worst symptoms. 

 

Snowy

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