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jozeff

jozeff: trying to come off of citalopram - a little help would be great

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Shep
On 1/30/2019 at 3:51 PM, jozeff said:

Should I post my symptoms daily here? My topic will me massive in a few months time, I mean many pages of times and symptoms.....will anybody still read my posts then?

 

Please post for a few days until we can answer your questions and help guide you in your taper. After that, you could continue keeping this journal in a Word Doc or Google Doc and if you have questions later on for us, you will have the information to copy and paste here in your thread. 

 

This is the format that works best:

 

Drug and Symptoms Journal

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jozeff

Hi Shep,

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll do my best ....starting today. 

 

Will be continued.

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

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jozeff

 Friday February 1st

 

I started a 2300- 2500 Kcal diet last Monday. Did this many times in the past to lose a bit weight. I eat fruits, vegetables, whole grains, healthy fats, cottage cheese etc.

 

 

6:30 am woke up and stayed in bed just thinking a bit.

 

7:30 am got out of bed. Took 10 mg citalopram and 200 mg magnesium

 

7:45 am ate a banana en 200 ml coffee

 

8:00 am tight shoulders and tingling in neck and back. Thinking about this.

 

8:30 am drove to work in good mood.

 

9:10 am started working.

 

930 am had 100 ml coffee and water

 

0945 am ate smoothy

 

1030 am restlessness begins. Tight neck and shoulders all to my feet. Nervous about this.

 

1045 ate smoothy.

 

1:00  pm drove home and had some smoothy and 3 brazilian nuts.

 

1:15 took 500 mg acetaminophen for back pain.

 

1:30 pm started feeling a bit hopelessness and very tired.

 

2:00 pm arrived home and very tired.

 

Drank 300 ml diet Coke with 1mg lithium and rested for 30 minutes.

 

2:30 pm my coach/therapist arrived.

 

4:30 pm my therapist left and I felt a bit better and less fatigue.

 

6 pm took 8 mg citalopram liquid self prepared.

 

5 pm - 8 pm some backpain and stiff shoulders. Took a hot bath 

 

9 pm drink 300 ml diet Coke

 

10:45 pm went to bed. No anxiety or symptoms, slightly nervous about possible symptoms tomorrow.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Shep

For the "tight shoulders" symptom, you may want to try some gentle stretches. 

 

There are a ton of short, beginner's yoga videos on YouTube that can be very helpful, such as this one:

 

Yoga at Your Desk video (6.5 minutes)

 

More from the Beyond Meds site (a site authored by a survivor of these drugs):

 

Beyonds Meds - yoga archive

 

You may also want to add some epsom salts to your hot bath in the evening. That's very good for tight muscles, if you're able to tolerate a bit more magnesium than what you're getting from your supplement. 

 

16 hours ago, jozeff said:

Drank 300 ml diet Coke with 1mg lithium and rested for 30 minutes.

 

When did you decrease from 1.5 mg lithium (what is in your signature) to 1 mg? 

 

16 hours ago, jozeff said:

6 pm took 8 mg citalopram liquid self prepared.

 

When did you decrease from 18 mg (listed in your signature) down to 8 mg? 

 

Please update your signature to include your current dose and your taper rate. 

 

Account - Settings - Signature

 

Aside from some tight muscles, it sounds like you're coping well. Is this correct? 

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jozeff

Hi Shep,

 

I'm still taking 18 mg citalopram. 10 mg in the morning and 8 mg in the evening.

 

I dissolve a 10 mg pill and drink the liquid so that I have 8 mg..

 

I took 1.5 mg lithium by decided to take 1 mg two days ago since that is about the daily recommended Max intake.

 

I take 200-400 mg magnesium daily. Should I try to take some more??

 

Thanks!!

 

 

Jozeff

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Shep
1 minute ago, jozeff said:

I'm still taking 18 mg citalopram. 10 mg in the morning and 8 mg in the evening.

 

I dissolve a 10 mg pill and drink the liquid so that I have 8 mg..

 

 

I'm sorry, I missed that morning dose. Thank you for clarifying. 

 

2 minutes ago, jozeff said:

I took 1.5 mg lithium by decided to take 1 mg two days ago since that is about the daily recommended Max intake.

 

You're taking the over-the-counter supplement like lithium orotate or elemental lithium, and not the prescription lithium, correct? 

 

That's still a 33% reduction, and depending on how much your nervous system had adjusted to it, it could cause some upticks in symptoms. Hopefully that will resolve quickly. 

 

11 minutes ago, jozeff said:

I take 200-400 mg magnesium daily. Should I try to take some more??

 

You may want to add in an epsom salt bath to see if it helps with the tight muscles. Absorbing magnesium via a bath is a gentler way of getting a bit more magnesium, plus the benefit of the relaxation of a hot bath on sore and tight muscles. 

 

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jozeff

Hi Shep,

 

Thanks for the advise.

 

No, ik take Lithiumchloride (1 mg elemental lithium). I work in a lab and have this stuff in my desk. The lithium orotate is a bit of a hype I guess. Some people say it is way too much lithium. Some "doctors" on youtube say you should take at least 20 mg lithium.

 

I take a very tiny dose because I just wanted to give it a chance. People in history used to get way more lithium by waterintake then we do today. 

 

cheers

 

Jozeff

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India
19 hours ago, jozeff said:

 Friday February 1st

 

I started a 2300- 2500 Kcal diet last Monday. Did this many times in the past to lose a bit weight. I eat fruits, vegetables, whole grains, healthy fats, cottage cheese etc.

 

 

6:30 am woke up and stayed in bed just thinking a bit.

 

7:30 am got out of bed. Took 10 mg citalopram and 200 mg magnesium

 

7:45 am ate a banana en 200 ml coffee

 

8:00 am tight shoulders and tingling in neck and back. Thinking about this.

 

8:30 am drove to work in good mood.

 

9:10 am started working.

 

930 am had 100 ml coffee and water

 

0945 am ate smoothy

 

1030 am restlessness begins. Tight neck and shoulders all to my feet. Nervous about this.

 

1045 ate smoothy.

 

1:00  pm drove home and had some smoothy and 3 brazilian nuts.

 

1:15 took 500 mg acetaminophen for back pain.

 

1:30 pm started feeling a bit hopelessness and very tired.

 

2:00 pm arrived home and very tired.

 

Drank 300 ml diet Coke with 1mg lithium and rested for 30 minutes.

 

2:30 pm my coach/therapist arrived.

 

4:30 pm my therapist left and I felt a bit better and less fatigue.

 

6 pm took 8 mg citalopram liquid self prepared.

 

5 pm - 8 pm some backpain and stiff shoulders. Took a hot bath 

 

9 pm drink 300 ml diet Coke

 

10:45 pm went to bed. No anxiety or symptoms, slightly nervous about possible symptoms tomorrow.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does this mean you are getting some small waves? I updosed by 10% 2 nights ago to try to get some more stability but it seems like a mistake I have a new symptom which is bad nausea !! It's great to hear you write that you are getting some waves of good mood!!

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jozeff

8 AM got out of bed after 2 hours awake. Felt bit nervous but ok. Slept 7 hours.

 

815 am took 10 mg citalopram, 200 mg magnesium, 250 ml coffee breakfast

 

0900 started doing chores on the house.

 

11am started feeling very off balance. Nervous neck, shoulders. Tired and feverish feeling but no fever. Just blah.

 

1 pm had lunch, felt awful. Tired and restless legs.

 

130 drank 300 ml diet coke and 1 mg lithium

 

230 pm rested on the couch.

 

3 pm depression started building up. Dreadful feeling of hopelessness.

 

4:30 pm sit in hot bath with my wife. Relaxed a bit.

 

6 pm depression continued with cold shivers down my spine. Just dreadful feeling of despair. Especially in my head.

 

7 pm ate French fries and drank some diet coke. Still feeling worthless. Electric nervousness in arms and hands and upper chest. Depressed.

Took 200 mg magnesium

 

Watched TV . Kept feeling hopeless and depressed 

 

830 am took 8 mg citalopram.

 

1030 pm go to bed, bit less depressed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Altostrata

Magnesium is best taken in small doses throughout the day.

 

I don't understand why you're experimenting with lithium at all. It's a brake. If you already feel dopey and slow, lithium will make this worse. It looks to me that your dose of lithium makes you feel "depressed."

 

Then, on top of that, you're drinking a lot of caffeine, which is stimulating. It can make you feel tense and "keyed up," that's why people like it. If you've become dependent on it, interdose withdrawal can make you feel tense and sick. Caffeine withdrawal headache is common.

 

Anxiety and muscle tension as consequences of caffeine withdrawal.  

 

jozeff, you may need to examine your tendency to self-medicate, you may be causing some of your symptoms.

 

If I were you, I'd stop taking lithium, wait 4 days, then taper off caffeine, for starters. Please continue to keep daily notes as you make these changes, to see if they also cause symptom changes.

 

(Posting daily notes in your topic is best, but Google Docs is preferable to MS Word for notes.)

 

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Carmie

Hi Jozeff, 

 

How are you doing?💚

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jozeff

Hi Carmie,

 

Thank you for jumping in. 

 

It's not going very well but not too awful either. I'm pretty used to feeling not great. That is sad but true. Not a single day without very bad episodes. I feel a lot of stress lately. Stress at work, stress at home when my kid won't listen to me or when I'm having one of these nasty arguments with my wife. Man, sometimes I wish someone puts me out of my misery then. I can't take the dreadful helplessness she leaves me in. She is a wonderful woman but a tough one when she is pissed. 

 

The problem for me right now is the depressed feelings that kick in 5 times a day. I get overwhelmed with bad mood and loose the will to live suddenly. Half an hour later I'm fine again.... strange.

 

I'm also very tired due to back and neck pains. 

 

I laugh each day, kiss my wife and cuddle with my son so it could be a lot worse.

 

How are you doing today?

 

Thanks again and Cheers

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

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jozeff

Hi guys,

 

This has been a pretty ok week to be honest. Just extreme tiredness and bad temper a couple of days but not much anxiety or depression which was a relief for me.

 

Today was not great with some anxiety and fatigue though. Felt a little depressed.

 

It's been very busy at work and my wife is 7 months pregnant now do I have to be there for her.

 

I promised to keep my symptoms in a diary but I didn't manage to get it done. I'll try next week when I have more time ok?

 

Hi Alto, the experiments with lithium is not too serious. It is a very very small dose which can be found in natural water all over the world. I started this out of despair because I was looking for the holy Grail. I'm very very careful with supplements I can assure you. Thanks for your concern and help!

 

Cheers and happy healing everyone!!

 

 

Jozeff

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jozeff

7 am: woke up felt ok

 

730 am had some bread and coffee

 

930 am started playing computer game.

Too 10 mg citalopram

 

1100 am took a hot bath with my son. Started feeling depressed.

 

1200 am got out of the bath, felt depressed.

 

1230 eat bread and drink coffee.

 

2 pm PlayStation with my son, still depressed.

 

3 pm took motorcycle out for a spin. Still depressed

 

330 pm. My wife called me she damaged our car...slight anxiety and depression continued.

 

4 pm got home. Severe depression symptoms. Very agitated. Drank 300 ml diet coke.

 

5 pm had spaghetti and some diet Coke. Depression continued.

 

6 pm took 8 mg citalopram and watched my son play soccer. Felt a bit better during and after. Slightly panic.

 

730 pm got home. Depression came back a bit.

 

Showered and layed my boy to bed.

 

830-10 pm watched TV with my wife. Drank coke and had potato chips. Felt somewhat better

 

Went to bed. Bit depressed and bit nervous.

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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ChessieCat
1 hour ago, jozeff said:

830-10 pm watched TV with my wife. Drank coke and had potato chips. Felt somewhat better

 

Went to bed. Bit depressed and bit nervous.

 

It might be better if you don't drink coke this late in the day.  Perhaps find a different, non caffeine beverage.

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ChessieCat
Caffeine half life:
 
approximately 5 to 6 hours
 
The half-life of caffeine (time taken for the body to eliminate one-half of the caffeine) varies widely between people, depending on factors such as age, body weight, pregnancy status, medication intake and liver health. In healthy adults, the half-life is approximately 5 to 6 hours.

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jozeff

Hi guys, thanks.

I know about the caffeine....

Some days I drink 6 cups of coffee and have no problems whatsoever. I sleep like a baby so it's not keeping me awake. 

 

It's the depression I'm worried about the most right now. It creeps up on me and stays for hours. Yesterday it was pretty severe. Last week it was almost absent.

 

I've been eating a lot of carbs, maybe 80% of my intake, for 2 weeks. That is always making me tired and a bit hopeless. But in the evening it makes me calm and relaxed

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Anyone have experience with keto diet?

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

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Carmie

Hi Jozeff, 

 

How are you doing? Thanks for popping over to my thread the other day. 

 

If the carbs are making you feel down during the day, but calm you in the evening I think you’ve solved your own problem there. Don’t eat too many during the day, but have some in the evening. I remember one of my friends needed to eat some carbs in the evening to help her to sleep.

 

I’m sorry your depression has been bad. I hope you pick up a little soon, Sending hugs🤗

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jozeff

Thanks Carmie,

 

The depression was horrendous last Monday but eased a lot yesterday and today. Unfortunately I was unbelievably tired yesterday so that was also pretty hard. Today was a bit better.

 

When I have a lot of carbs I sleep like a baby and feel perfectly fine during the evening. The morning is also ok but around noon I get so tired and nauseous. Each weekend I eat a lot of potatoe chips and French fries. I have to switch back to lean eating again on Monday. This cycle was working pretty well for me but it seems like my body gave up. Could be the citalopram but I don't know about that.

 

Seems like I fluctuate a lot in lifestyle compared to other people here who try to get off of meds. 

 

Getting older every day doesn't seem to help either. When I was 20 I didn't think about all this at all!

 

Cheers and thanks again!

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

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