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jozeff: trying to come off of citalopram - a little help would be great

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Shep
On 1/30/2019 at 3:51 PM, jozeff said:

Should I post my symptoms daily here? My topic will me massive in a few months time, I mean many pages of times and symptoms.....will anybody still read my posts then?

 

Please post for a few days until we can answer your questions and help guide you in your taper. After that, you could continue keeping this journal in a Word Doc or Google Doc and if you have questions later on for us, you will have the information to copy and paste here in your thread. 

 

This is the format that works best:

 

Drug and Symptoms Journal

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jozeff

Hi Shep,

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll do my best ....starting today. 

 

Will be continued.

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

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jozeff

 Friday February 1st

 

I started a 2300- 2500 Kcal diet last Monday. Did this many times in the past to lose a bit weight. I eat fruits, vegetables, whole grains, healthy fats, cottage cheese etc.

 

 

6:30 am woke up and stayed in bed just thinking a bit.

 

7:30 am got out of bed. Took 10 mg citalopram and 200 mg magnesium

 

7:45 am ate a banana en 200 ml coffee

 

8:00 am tight shoulders and tingling in neck and back. Thinking about this.

 

8:30 am drove to work in good mood.

 

9:10 am started working.

 

930 am had 100 ml coffee and water

 

0945 am ate smoothy

 

1030 am restlessness begins. Tight neck and shoulders all to my feet. Nervous about this.

 

1045 ate smoothy.

 

1:00  pm drove home and had some smoothy and 3 brazilian nuts.

 

1:15 took 500 mg acetaminophen for back pain.

 

1:30 pm started feeling a bit hopelessness and very tired.

 

2:00 pm arrived home and very tired.

 

Drank 300 ml diet Coke with 1mg lithium and rested for 30 minutes.

 

2:30 pm my coach/therapist arrived.

 

4:30 pm my therapist left and I felt a bit better and less fatigue.

 

6 pm took 8 mg citalopram liquid self prepared.

 

5 pm - 8 pm some backpain and stiff shoulders. Took a hot bath 

 

9 pm drink 300 ml diet Coke

 

10:45 pm went to bed. No anxiety or symptoms, slightly nervous about possible symptoms tomorrow.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Shep

For the "tight shoulders" symptom, you may want to try some gentle stretches. 

 

There are a ton of short, beginner's yoga videos on YouTube that can be very helpful, such as this one:

 

Yoga at Your Desk video (6.5 minutes)

 

More from the Beyond Meds site (a site authored by a survivor of these drugs):

 

Beyonds Meds - yoga archive

 

You may also want to add some epsom salts to your hot bath in the evening. That's very good for tight muscles, if you're able to tolerate a bit more magnesium than what you're getting from your supplement. 

 

16 hours ago, jozeff said:

Drank 300 ml diet Coke with 1mg lithium and rested for 30 minutes.

 

When did you decrease from 1.5 mg lithium (what is in your signature) to 1 mg? 

 

16 hours ago, jozeff said:

6 pm took 8 mg citalopram liquid self prepared.

 

When did you decrease from 18 mg (listed in your signature) down to 8 mg? 

 

Please update your signature to include your current dose and your taper rate. 

 

Account - Settings - Signature

 

Aside from some tight muscles, it sounds like you're coping well. Is this correct? 

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jozeff

Hi Shep,

 

I'm still taking 18 mg citalopram. 10 mg in the morning and 8 mg in the evening.

 

I dissolve a 10 mg pill and drink the liquid so that I have 8 mg..

 

I took 1.5 mg lithium by decided to take 1 mg two days ago since that is about the daily recommended Max intake.

 

I take 200-400 mg magnesium daily. Should I try to take some more??

 

Thanks!!

 

 

Jozeff

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Shep
1 minute ago, jozeff said:

I'm still taking 18 mg citalopram. 10 mg in the morning and 8 mg in the evening.

 

I dissolve a 10 mg pill and drink the liquid so that I have 8 mg..

 

 

I'm sorry, I missed that morning dose. Thank you for clarifying. 

 

2 minutes ago, jozeff said:

I took 1.5 mg lithium by decided to take 1 mg two days ago since that is about the daily recommended Max intake.

 

You're taking the over-the-counter supplement like lithium orotate or elemental lithium, and not the prescription lithium, correct? 

 

That's still a 33% reduction, and depending on how much your nervous system had adjusted to it, it could cause some upticks in symptoms. Hopefully that will resolve quickly. 

 

11 minutes ago, jozeff said:

I take 200-400 mg magnesium daily. Should I try to take some more??

 

You may want to add in an epsom salt bath to see if it helps with the tight muscles. Absorbing magnesium via a bath is a gentler way of getting a bit more magnesium, plus the benefit of the relaxation of a hot bath on sore and tight muscles. 

 

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jozeff

Hi Shep,

 

Thanks for the advise.

 

No, ik take Lithiumchloride (1 mg elemental lithium). I work in a lab and have this stuff in my desk. The lithium orotate is a bit of a hype I guess. Some people say it is way too much lithium. Some "doctors" on youtube say you should take at least 20 mg lithium.

 

I take a very tiny dose because I just wanted to give it a chance. People in history used to get way more lithium by waterintake then we do today. 

 

cheers

 

Jozeff

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India
19 hours ago, jozeff said:

 Friday February 1st

 

I started a 2300- 2500 Kcal diet last Monday. Did this many times in the past to lose a bit weight. I eat fruits, vegetables, whole grains, healthy fats, cottage cheese etc.

 

 

6:30 am woke up and stayed in bed just thinking a bit.

 

7:30 am got out of bed. Took 10 mg citalopram and 200 mg magnesium

 

7:45 am ate a banana en 200 ml coffee

 

8:00 am tight shoulders and tingling in neck and back. Thinking about this.

 

8:30 am drove to work in good mood.

 

9:10 am started working.

 

930 am had 100 ml coffee and water

 

0945 am ate smoothy

 

1030 am restlessness begins. Tight neck and shoulders all to my feet. Nervous about this.

 

1045 ate smoothy.

 

1:00  pm drove home and had some smoothy and 3 brazilian nuts.

 

1:15 took 500 mg acetaminophen for back pain.

 

1:30 pm started feeling a bit hopelessness and very tired.

 

2:00 pm arrived home and very tired.

 

Drank 300 ml diet Coke with 1mg lithium and rested for 30 minutes.

 

2:30 pm my coach/therapist arrived.

 

4:30 pm my therapist left and I felt a bit better and less fatigue.

 

6 pm took 8 mg citalopram liquid self prepared.

 

5 pm - 8 pm some backpain and stiff shoulders. Took a hot bath 

 

9 pm drink 300 ml diet Coke

 

10:45 pm went to bed. No anxiety or symptoms, slightly nervous about possible symptoms tomorrow.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does this mean you are getting some small waves? I updosed by 10% 2 nights ago to try to get some more stability but it seems like a mistake I have a new symptom which is bad nausea !! It's great to hear you write that you are getting some waves of good mood!!

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jozeff

8 AM got out of bed after 2 hours awake. Felt bit nervous but ok. Slept 7 hours.

 

815 am took 10 mg citalopram, 200 mg magnesium, 250 ml coffee breakfast

 

0900 started doing chores on the house.

 

11am started feeling very off balance. Nervous neck, shoulders. Tired and feverish feeling but no fever. Just blah.

 

1 pm had lunch, felt awful. Tired and restless legs.

 

130 drank 300 ml diet coke and 1 mg lithium

 

230 pm rested on the couch.

 

3 pm depression started building up. Dreadful feeling of hopelessness.

 

4:30 pm sit in hot bath with my wife. Relaxed a bit.

 

6 pm depression continued with cold shivers down my spine. Just dreadful feeling of despair. Especially in my head.

 

7 pm ate French fries and drank some diet coke. Still feeling worthless. Electric nervousness in arms and hands and upper chest. Depressed.

Took 200 mg magnesium

 

Watched TV . Kept feeling hopeless and depressed 

 

830 am took 8 mg citalopram.

 

1030 pm go to bed, bit less depressed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Altostrata

Magnesium is best taken in small doses throughout the day.

 

I don't understand why you're experimenting with lithium at all. It's a brake. If you already feel dopey and slow, lithium will make this worse. It looks to me that your dose of lithium makes you feel "depressed."

 

Then, on top of that, you're drinking a lot of caffeine, which is stimulating. It can make you feel tense and "keyed up," that's why people like it. If you've become dependent on it, interdose withdrawal can make you feel tense and sick. Caffeine withdrawal headache is common.

 

Anxiety and muscle tension as consequences of caffeine withdrawal.  

 

jozeff, you may need to examine your tendency to self-medicate, you may be causing some of your symptoms.

 

If I were you, I'd stop taking lithium, wait 4 days, then taper off caffeine, for starters. Please continue to keep daily notes as you make these changes, to see if they also cause symptom changes.

 

(Posting daily notes in your topic is best, but Google Docs is preferable to MS Word for notes.)

 

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Carmie

Hi Jozeff, 

 

How are you doing?💚

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jozeff

Hi Carmie,

 

Thank you for jumping in. 

 

It's not going very well but not too awful either. I'm pretty used to feeling not great. That is sad but true. Not a single day without very bad episodes. I feel a lot of stress lately. Stress at work, stress at home when my kid won't listen to me or when I'm having one of these nasty arguments with my wife. Man, sometimes I wish someone puts me out of my misery then. I can't take the dreadful helplessness she leaves me in. She is a wonderful woman but a tough one when she is pissed. 

 

The problem for me right now is the depressed feelings that kick in 5 times a day. I get overwhelmed with bad mood and loose the will to live suddenly. Half an hour later I'm fine again.... strange.

 

I'm also very tired due to back and neck pains. 

 

I laugh each day, kiss my wife and cuddle with my son so it could be a lot worse.

 

How are you doing today?

 

Thanks again and Cheers

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

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jozeff

Hi guys,

 

This has been a pretty ok week to be honest. Just extreme tiredness and bad temper a couple of days but not much anxiety or depression which was a relief for me.

 

Today was not great with some anxiety and fatigue though. Felt a little depressed.

 

It's been very busy at work and my wife is 7 months pregnant now do I have to be there for her.

 

I promised to keep my symptoms in a diary but I didn't manage to get it done. I'll try next week when I have more time ok?

 

Hi Alto, the experiments with lithium is not too serious. It is a very very small dose which can be found in natural water all over the world. I started this out of despair because I was looking for the holy Grail. I'm very very careful with supplements I can assure you. Thanks for your concern and help!

 

Cheers and happy healing everyone!!

 

 

Jozeff

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jozeff

7 am: woke up felt ok

 

730 am had some bread and coffee

 

930 am started playing computer game.

Too 10 mg citalopram

 

1100 am took a hot bath with my son. Started feeling depressed.

 

1200 am got out of the bath, felt depressed.

 

1230 eat bread and drink coffee.

 

2 pm PlayStation with my son, still depressed.

 

3 pm took motorcycle out for a spin. Still depressed

 

330 pm. My wife called me she damaged our car...slight anxiety and depression continued.

 

4 pm got home. Severe depression symptoms. Very agitated. Drank 300 ml diet coke.

 

5 pm had spaghetti and some diet Coke. Depression continued.

 

6 pm took 8 mg citalopram and watched my son play soccer. Felt a bit better during and after. Slightly panic.

 

730 pm got home. Depression came back a bit.

 

Showered and layed my boy to bed.

 

830-10 pm watched TV with my wife. Drank coke and had potato chips. Felt somewhat better

 

Went to bed. Bit depressed and bit nervous.

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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ChessieCat
1 hour ago, jozeff said:

830-10 pm watched TV with my wife. Drank coke and had potato chips. Felt somewhat better

 

Went to bed. Bit depressed and bit nervous.

 

It might be better if you don't drink coke this late in the day.  Perhaps find a different, non caffeine beverage.

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ChessieCat
Caffeine half life:
 
approximately 5 to 6 hours
 
The half-life of caffeine (time taken for the body to eliminate one-half of the caffeine) varies widely between people, depending on factors such as age, body weight, pregnancy status, medication intake and liver health. In healthy adults, the half-life is approximately 5 to 6 hours.

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jozeff

Hi guys, thanks.

I know about the caffeine....

Some days I drink 6 cups of coffee and have no problems whatsoever. I sleep like a baby so it's not keeping me awake. 

 

It's the depression I'm worried about the most right now. It creeps up on me and stays for hours. Yesterday it was pretty severe. Last week it was almost absent.

 

I've been eating a lot of carbs, maybe 80% of my intake, for 2 weeks. That is always making me tired and a bit hopeless. But in the evening it makes me calm and relaxed

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Anyone have experience with keto diet?

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

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Carmie

Hi Jozeff, 

 

How are you doing? Thanks for popping over to my thread the other day. 

 

If the carbs are making you feel down during the day, but calm you in the evening I think you’ve solved your own problem there. Don’t eat too many during the day, but have some in the evening. I remember one of my friends needed to eat some carbs in the evening to help her to sleep.

 

I’m sorry your depression has been bad. I hope you pick up a little soon, Sending hugs🤗

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jozeff

Thanks Carmie,

 

The depression was horrendous last Monday but eased a lot yesterday and today. Unfortunately I was unbelievably tired yesterday so that was also pretty hard. Today was a bit better.

 

When I have a lot of carbs I sleep like a baby and feel perfectly fine during the evening. The morning is also ok but around noon I get so tired and nauseous. Each weekend I eat a lot of potatoe chips and French fries. I have to switch back to lean eating again on Monday. This cycle was working pretty well for me but it seems like my body gave up. Could be the citalopram but I don't know about that.

 

Seems like I fluctuate a lot in lifestyle compared to other people here who try to get off of meds. 

 

Getting older every day doesn't seem to help either. When I was 20 I didn't think about all this at all!

 

Cheers and thanks again!

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

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Carmie

Hi Jozeff, 

 

How has your depression been? Is it still easing off? I hope you’re eating your carbs at the right time of the day as they seem to affect you too much if you don’t.

 

Take care💚

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jozeff

Hi Carmie,

 

Thanks for walking by!

Depression had eased pretty much since last weeks hell on Monday. It has been pretty ok with not too much trouble. Some anxiety, and suicidal ideation but not extreme. What is bothering me since 4 days is the dreadful feeling of despair (and suicidal ideation) and unbelievable tiredness. Not depression or anxiety, just the other symptoms.

 

I've been eating a lot lately but last Monday I started eating healthy and clean. I also drastically cut my diet coke intake. I used too drink 1.5 liter and I'm now on 0.5 liter for the third day in a row. (Will taper this to zero in 2 weeks))

 

Could be causing all this misery? It is hard to believe but I wouldn't be surprised if did. A lot of acid in your body and suddenly take only 1/3 of that is maybe destabilizing me. Any thoughts about that?

 

I've not been tapering for 6 months and hoped to be pretty stable by now. How long before I begin??

I will be a daddy again in 2 months so my wife strongly adviced me to not start messing with meds during these critical times.

 

Thanks again!

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

 

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noearthlyfamily
On 2/12/2019 at 12:27 AM, jozeff said:

Hi guys, thanks.

I know about the caffeine....

Some days I drink 6 cups of coffee and have no problems whatsoever. I sleep like a baby so it's not keeping me awake. 

 

It's the depression I'm worried about the most right now. It creeps up on me and stays for hours. Yesterday it was pretty severe. Last week it was almost absent.

 

I've been eating a lot of carbs, maybe 80% of my intake, for 2 weeks. That is always making me tired and a bit hopeless. But in the evening it makes me calm and relaxed

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Anyone have experience with keto diet?

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

keto diet...oh boy , yes i did it for about 6-8 months in 2017-2018 ...

before eventually going vegetarian, and then a week later strict vegan lol.

i am now vegan plus fish. so technically pescetarian.. but no more dairy, no more heavy saturated fats and cholesterols from red meats pork and antibiotic laden chicken meat... i do miss butter though. 😋

 

so i chose keto because i read where it helps children with epilepsy that is unresponsive to meds, and that it can be useful for other diseases like cancer and MS...since i was having MS symptoms

(which turned out not to be Multiple Sclerosis at all but rather the effects of long term high doses of quetiapine)... i decided to try it, see if it would help my symptoms.

 

it takes a couple or few weeks to reach strict ketosis, and you know you're there when you drop a lot of (water) weight very quickly, which is exciting but not sustainable, your breath attains a sour/fruity smell, your blood ketones elevate, and your body is no longer burning carbohydrates but instead your own fat stores. this is starvation. it is useful to induce autophagy to eat up diseased cells and stimulate the immune system, but again not sustainable. we are meant to burn carbs, natural sugars, pastas, vegetable especially starchy like potatoes carrots etc, all sustain us in healthy state. but in times of illness.disease or lack of food due to famine or weather etc we have this built in ability to burn our own stored fats to survive. we don't grow or repair too much during this phase of ketosis, but we can eliminate old diseased cells and shed exces water and fat. 

 

but with our brains, and nervous tissues we need carbs. our hormones, our adrenal glands, our pituitary and pineal and thyroid and sexual glands all need a steady intake of carbs AND certain fats in balance , everything in balance to function right. without adrenal and all systems balanced, then the rest goes to doodoo. it's like your regulatory system controlling all the other functions...when the body is just getting by surviving in ketosis, it focuses on the essential survival organs and processes and lets the less immediate things go to the back burner. unsustainable.

 

people love keto because initially it causes rapid weight loss and sometime clarity of that brain fog and other immediate things, can help get blood sugar back to normal. but it is not permanent. i lost about 35 pounds immediately on keto, then started having issues with my blood sugar because i had insulin resistance, like most people eating the GAD diet in america.

anyways, i had hypoglycemia due to eating not enough fruits n veggies n seeds n nuts and too much refined sugars, salt, processed foods and sodas.

 

diet sodas are the worst offenders because of artificial sweeteners, like aspartame, an excitotoxin. and regular sodas usually sweetened with high fructose GMO corn syrup are almost as bad. that's why fat people drink diet sodas. it is making them fat and preventing them from losing weight! aspartame is literally the poo of poo...it is the waste matter produced by the e coli bacterium. it tastes "sweet" so they put it in soft drinks and diet foods. not so sweet once you understand what it is.

also another excitotoxin is msg mono sodium glutamate used in everything from asian sauces to processed frozen and shelf stable foods. sodium is another to be careful of...switch to a natural source like pink himalayan mined salt which you grind fresh for the minerals and nutrients that evaporate soon after it's ground finely. regular table salt or iodized salt is bleached with toxic chemicals and can actually kill you in larger doses. 

 

so basically, keto is for specific diseases unresponsive to medication, but not for general public long term. 

 

for your best health:  cut the pus-filled dairy laden with antibiotics, cut the sick poultry (eggs in commercial farming are weak shelled due to overlaying and crowding and disease...try to find a source of eggs from a local small farm where the birds have clean water and grain and worms,crickets etc  and grass ) if you want or need cheese go the same route, local small farm goats or cows with disease free pens and at best free range grain and grass fed also for pigs,  pigs contain a lot of disease and parasites passed on to humans easily so important to find clean sources, also if beef eating make sure they are clean, disease free, this is not possible with commercially bred and slaughtered, must go local or small farms and pay extra for it. cheap is because they don't feed them right. expensive is because they invested in the animals. same with produce. organic costs more cause it is less shelf stable ie no preservatives and no pesticides so smaller crop yields. but yay! no round up -glycophosphates, another neurotoxin

 

neurotoxins and excitotoxins are the biggest triggers for harming mental health in our diet, so if you can eliminate or reduce those the better off you'll be. 

 

btw serotonin made in our guts 90% and brain 10% comes from tryptophan which is found in protein...so yeah we need the protein! just not the saturated heart attack vein clogging fats. lol

 

my Hubby cut his soda intake from a 6pack+ per day to less than 2 per day, usually 1 per day, and he only drinks the kind with real sugar, cane sugar usually. he has dropped a few pants sizes in a short time and his teeth are no longer breaking. his moods are more stable also i suspect due to his blood sugar not being spiked and crashed from huge sugar intake every hour or so. his skin is clearer and improved bowel habits. 

 

myself, after stopping sodas except for maybe 1 soda a month on special occasion,  same kind as Hubbs drinks, i have no more hypoglycemia. my blood sugar a1c is perfect 5. my moods especially headaches have improved enormously. now i have moodiness only from WD or if my hormone patch needs to be changed at the end of the week. 

 

as for going from keto to plantbased and eventually adding fish back in,  my cholesterols went from extremely elevated (especially triglycerides) like haert attack level to almost normal now. i had to add concentrated garlic and flaxseed oil to get it to come down tho, because i had SSRI (quetiapine) induced metabolic syndrome. i would have done fish oil instead of flaxseed oil (way cheaper and very effective at lowering cholesterols) but i was strict vegan at the time. since then i have found out that over 70% of fish oil capsules on market today are rancid. testing by many labs showed results based on smell, flavor, and scientific methods that i didn't comprehend that told them hold old each batch was, date captured vs date on shelf and exp dates..most fish oil capsules are on the shelf 2-3 years by the time you buy them  🐟 so i looked into the top 7 rated fish oil supps to see how much they were and they were 2 and 3 times more costly than my flaxseed oil capsules. so, i'll stick with flaxseed oil caps for now and my fish and seafood gumbo when i can make it. 

 

i hope this helps you with your decision on keto yay or nay. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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noearthlyfamily
On 2/2/2019 at 8:50 AM, jozeff said:

Hi Shep,

 

I'm still taking 18 mg citalopram. 10 mg in the morning and 8 mg in the evening.

 

I dissolve a 10 mg pill and drink the liquid so that I have 8 mg..

 

I took 1.5 mg lithium by decided to take 1 mg two days ago since that is about the daily recommended Max intake.

 

I take 200-400 mg magnesium daily. Should I try to take some more??

 

Thanks!!

 

 

Jozeff

 

hey Jozeff 🔬

 

i take magnesium too, the one i take in america is called Doctor's BestHigh Absorption Magnesium 100% chelated with albion minerals

it's magnesium lysinate glycinate 100mg and i take it 3x a day but you can take it whenever you feel anxiety it helps calm the nerves a lot. so does all forms of magnesium, like epsom salts in a warm bath, or even the magnesium sprays or deodorants. absorbs easily thru the skin

 

but i think maybe the excitotoxins from the diet sodas are fighting your ability to calm yourself. caffeine is a big one too, i know you already know that,  it's one of the hardest to quit because of the terrible migraine you get when you need the next fix, but try to wean yourself a little from it and see if it doesn't help. caffeine and aspartame are horrible for the way they excite/wake up the nervous system...when you're trying to calm down.  it's why ya get the bad headache and grumpy mood before the 2 cups of coffee in the morning. your body is already in withdrawal before you wake up. lol it took me about 2 decades to learn not to poke the bear before his 2 cups in the AM!  

 

 

 

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Carmie

Hi Jozeff, 

 

I was so glad to hear that your depression has eased a bit. I’m sorry you’ve got SI still though. Have you ever practiced EFT or FasterEFT? I find FasterEFT really helps with emotions. There are lots of videos on YouTube. Type in 427 FasterEFT and it will give you the basics. 

 

I’m glad you’re eating more cleanly and are cutting down on your soft drink. What can happen when you start eating healthier and get rid of junk is something called herxheimer. Your body is detoxing and you might get flu like symptoms. Don’t rush in getting off the last half litre of coke, seeing you’ve already got rid of 1 litre so quickly. Slow and steady does it. You’re probably getting kcaffeine withdrawals as well. 

 

When I cut out sugar, grains, dairy and junk food in the past I had herxheimers for about a month and a half. Because I have CFS as well, I was pretty much bedbound that whole time. It will pass. Please don’t taper for now, let your body get used to your healthy eating first. It’s not good to make too many changes at once. Only one change at a time seems to be the motto when going through withdrawals. You’ll feel better in the long run though getting rid of junk food and the coke. 

 

Take care💚

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noearthlyfamily
21 minutes ago, Carmie said:

Hi Jozeff, 

 

I was so glad to hear that your depression has eased a bit. I’m sorry you’ve got SI still though. Have you ever practiced EFT or FasterEFT? I find FasterEFT really helps with emotions. There are lots of videos on YouTube. Type in 427 FasterEFT and it will give you the basics. 

 

I’m glad you’re eating more cleanly and are cutting down on your soft drink. What can happen when you start eating healthier and get rid of junk is something called herxheimer. Your body is detoxing and you might get flu like symptoms. Don’t rush in getting off the last half litre of coke, seeing you’ve already got rid of 1 litre so quickly. Slow and steady does it. You’re probably getting kcaffeine withdrawals as well. 

 

When I cut out sugar, grains, dairy and junk food in the past I had herxheimers for about a month and a half. Because I have CFS as well, I was pretty much bedbound that whole time. It will pass. Please don’t taper for now, let your body get used to your healthy eating first. It’s not good to make too many changes at once. Only one change at a time seems to be the motto when going through withdrawals. You’ll feel better in the long run though getting rid of junk food and the coke. 

 

Take care💚

 

i have to agree with the herximer reaction thing.  wheni did keto and was getting rid of a lot of toxins via the lost water weight, i got a rash (aka "keto rash") which they said was carb rash ie needed carbs...which might have been true, but when i went begetarian later and ditched processed sugars and other toxins, i went through about 2 months of it where my gut grew a new biome to handle the new foods/fibers etc with good enzymes, probiotics help but it still takes about a month or two to get there, and i felt bloated and gassy too. it went away! cutting dairy was big and made a difference in how much allergies and mucous i have (mostly none now) but the herx is just your body saying it's detoxing fast and healing crisis. Carmie's advice to take the taper off the sodas easy  is sound. sugar is the #1 addictive substance in the world. and artificial sweeteners follow closely, but i second her advice to not try to taper too much or too many things at the same time. you're doing great!

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Tom37

Hang in there mate.....I personally wouldn’t to do anything with medication unless completely stabile and have been for a few months......will a new born on the way I definitely wouldn’t....especially as we know things can get worse if taper when not stable.

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Carmie

Hi Jozeff, 

 

How have you been doing?💚

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jozeff

Hi Carmie I am ok now,

 

Had a rough week with a lot of fatigue but I have a little vacation together with my 7y old son :) 

I will manage this week...

 

thanks!

 

Jozeff

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jozeff

 

 

I Created a simple spreadsheet to calculate tapering.

 

Hope you can use it.

 

cheers

Jozeff

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Carmie
On 3/4/2019 at 11:18 PM, jozeff said:

Hi Carmie I am ok now,

 

Had a rough week with a lot of fatigue but I have a little vacation together with my 7y old son :) 

I will manage this week...

 

thanks!

 

Jozeff

 

Glad you’re feeling a bit better Jozeff. That’s wonderful you got to have a nice vacation. 

 

Take care💚

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jozeff

Hi Carmie,

 

Thanks for your message! I've been having  some flu like symptoms unfortunately that made me very depressed. I had a vacation week with son but he had the flu. 

 

Pretty bad panick attack last Wednesday so that took me more than a day to recover from.

 

I was dreadful around noon for the last few months and I wanted to do something about that. I take a part of my citalopram in the morning and half of it in the evening ( the last 2 years).

 

Since last Monday I've been reducing the space between the doses. Because I wanted to try if taking 1 dose at night would be better for me. Now I take half around 4 in the afternoon and the rest before bedtime. I took the morning dose 1 hour later every day this week.

 

However, I feel very depressed the last 3 days. Could this have something to do with shifting the time I take citalopram? It has a half-life of 35 hours so I doubt it....

 

Any thoughts about this would be very welcome.... altostrata maybe??

 

Thanks!!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

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Altostrata

Are there any other circumstances that might cause you to feel down? Do you and your son have the flu?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?

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jozeff

 

Hi alto,

 

Well I start the day ok but after noon I got really depressed the last couple of days. No other symptoms. Just very depressed and hopeless.

 

I wandered if that could be caused by taking the citalopram in the afternoon and evening instead of in the morning and evening?

 

Are there links to a topic about spreading dose throughout the day?

 

The flu like symptoms might have caused these depressive feelings of course. My son is already much better. I didn't have fever but only very coughy and feeling week.

 

Tnx in advance

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jozeff

Ah thank you very much!!

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jozeff

Ok I read about the dividing doses subject.

 

The problem is that citalopram has a half life of 35 hours so taking it once or twice a day shouldn't make much of a difference.

However, since a couple of days i started shifting my first dose from 8 am to 3 pm and my second dose as normal in the evening.

 

I feel very depressed the last couple of days starting around 1 or 2 pm......

 

Could this be the citalopram (despite the long half-life)? Are there other substances in the medication that have an effect on this?

 

I also started drinking less diet Coke. From 1.5 liter to 250 ml daily tapered in a month. Is there an aspartame/caffeine withdrawal going on as well? Cannot find much about aspartame WD tbh. Caffeine WD is common but will that last do long and kick me into major depressive symptoms?

 

Many questions, I know, but I'm a bit desperate at the moment....

 

Moderators, do you have any insight for me please?

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Jozeff

 

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