jozeff: trying to come off of citalopram - a little help would be great

[jozeff]

Thanks alto!

 

To be honest I've read most of these links/subjects many times. I've been around here for 2 years here and literally trying to read as much as I can to find the holy Grail....

 

 

Thanks anyway, appreciate it!

 

Cheers Jozeff

 

[Altostrata]

jozeff, wherever you go, there you are. If your longstanding habits of mind are causing problems for you, you need to replace them with better habits.

[jozeff]

Hi all,

 

A quick question.

 

My blood levels of vitamin d = 39 ng/l (94nmol/l)

My B12 = 307 pmol/l

 

My doctor didn't say anything about these values because these are considered normal... However, I'm a bit worried about the kind of low B12...

 

What do you guys think??

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Jozeff

[ChessieCat]

Here's SA's topic:

 

vitamin-b12-essential-for-mood-nervous-system

 

I take a sublingual Activated Methyl B12 1000mcg every second day.  Previously I had been using the other type but the chemist assistant told me that the methylated is absorbed better.

 

Excess is excreted in the urine.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by ChessieCat
corrected B12 type

[ChessieCat]

I've edited my previous post.  My B12 is Activated Methyl.

[jozeff]

  Hi guys,

 

Time for an update.

Things have been going on and off lately. Not too well but sometimes not too bad either.

 

I had a vasectomy two weeks ago and had to take a week off from work and that didn't go very smooth because I had to spend the week on my couch lying down. I hadn't been tapering for a week or two but staying at home ramped thing up.

 

I continued my micro taper 7 days ago. I prepare a citalopram solution for 3 days and decrease 0.4% every time. This is truly very slowly but after a couple of days (and 0.8% lower dose) I start to feel very bad. Derealization, feeling very stimulated and just want to crawl out my skin  some days.

 

Yesterday was perfectly fine but today is absolutely awful. It's 35 degrees Celsius here, sunny, swimming all day with my boys but I still feel horrible. I just cannot believe that such a small decrease in dose could have such an impact.

 

I mean, I went from 11.1 mg citalopram to 11.05 mg for three days and then to 11.0 mg three days later.

 

Could this really be too fast?? I just cannot believe that?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

Hi @jozeff,

Wondering if your current wave is caused by the vasectomy. You must have had a general anaesthetic, plus any kind of surgery is going to be stressful to the body. 

So, maybe the anaesthetic/ surgical stress has caused the wave?

What do you reckon? I know you had the surgery before you dropped dosage, but I guess these things can take a while to create waves.....plus being at home, incapacitated.

Hoping it passed for you soon.

[jozeff]

Thanks for your reply sunny!

 

Well, the surgery was local anesthesia and it was only 2 small injections , 2 small cuts and I was up and running in 15 minutes. No problemo.!

 

It was after 2 days and me refusing to wear tight boxershorts that things got a little sensitive do I decided to take the week off. Things were ok except for my private parts being a bit painful.

 

This week is different. I felt ok and went down 0.4% citalopram and after 3 days made another 0.4% cut. Now, 3days after the total of 0.8% taper I feel very unpleasant, anxious and strange feeling in my head and extremely tired waking up.

 

Can such a small cut make me feel that unpleasant? If that is the case I need to make even smaller cuts and my taper would take 15 years or so.... completely rediculous.

 

Sometimes I just want to jump 10 or 15 percent and see what happens... Going from 11 to 10, 9,8,7 etc.. and start micro tapering at 5 mg or so.

 

Maybe I'm pooped out and less toxin is helpful or.......I need to go to ER because my body is completely messed up.

 

I'm at 11 mg citalopram (Aug 2020) and in may 2020 I was at 11.3 mg. I haven't even reached the danger zone where receptor occupancy is a big issue.

 

This is going to take forever this way.

 

I bought 50 gram caffeine and want to start tapering coffee intake. Some days at work I drink like 1 liter of (weak) coffee per day. Maybe there is a problem too.

 

I managed to completely quit drinking diet coke since end May 2020!

I drank 2 litres each day which was about 220 mg caffeine. Combined with the coffee I was taking I totalled  400-450 mg caffeine every day.

 

Now I'm at about 250 mg caffeine and trying to taper that. Haven't started yet but im thinking maybe 5% cut every day and take 2 months to completely go off of it.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and hope you are doing great!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Is there a possibility that you missed a dose or took double dose at some times recently?

 

We've had members since the beginning of this year posting that they are experiencing unexpected/worse waves.  2020 has been a very strange year with a lot of added stress from the covid situation.  Your vasectomy is a stress.  Being in pain is a stress.  Being home is a stress.

 

We also have members who find that there are doses which they have more difficulty with and once they are past that range of dosing they can taper the same as they were before.  But there is no rule about when, what dose, what drug, etc.

 

If I recall correctly I think BrassMonkey said that poop out comes on gradually.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by ChessieCat

[bunchesofoats]

Hey jozeff,

 

I think sunny makes a good point about the stress of the surgery and anesthesia interaction, even if only local. I don't have explanations, I wish I did, but I wanted to let you know that I seem to be just as sensitive as you are. I'm currently dropping by 0.5% every 3 days, but sometimes hanging out for 4 or 5 days if I feel the need. I'm currently at 10.6mg. So it seems we're at similar points with high sensitivities. I had paused for 5 months at 11mg because of the stress of the pandemic and some other life issues. My current method which I've been doing for a month now has been working well with no huge swings, but I'm not asymptomatic. The mild symptoms are mostly manageable, but a few days have been painful and unproductive. I also haven't had any major life events in this time.

 

I found this paper discussing a gene polymorphism that correlated with people who had more trouble discontinuing paroxetine. I had my genome sequenced a few years back. I found that I actually have two copies of the problematic allele discussed in the paper. I'm hoping to find more helpful information in the future. It would make sense that some of us have genes that give us more trouble with these medications.

 

Regarding the caffeine: I've seen a lot of people here say cutting it out helped tremendously. I cut out coffee years ago and I'm very sensitive even to decaf coffee now. I miss the flavor so much! I do have an unsweetened hot cocoa every morning, but that's about it. If I have chocolate in the afternoon or evening I feel the effects. Congrats on cutting the diet coke!

 

I (and some people in my life) have had a hard time accepting that I could really be so sensitive. But time and again I see that it really is the case. I found this website recently. It's a simple layout for withdrawal symptoms and coping strategies. It helped me to once again see another source that showed me I'm not the only one experiencing these weird things, and that acceptance plays a key role in the healing process.

 

It sounds like you had some good days, and then you had an experience that upset your balance. Perhaps take a break, and when your symptoms subside, keep going down slowly, giving yourself several days after each drop or other balance upset to watch for symptoms. I think that's the fastest way.

 

Perhaps it's our scientific orientation that makes it so difficult for us to accept without explanation, but I see now that acceptance must come first, and explanation will come in time, at least some of it. Our understanding of ourselves will grow and scientific studies will progress our collective knowledge of how these medications interact with our bodies and the connection to what we experience.

 

Sorry for the very long post, I hope it helpful in even the slightest way. I have a lot of thoughts, too many thoughts on this subject 😁. I wish you well!

 

[jozeff]

On 8/12/2020 at 9:59 AM, ChessieCat said:

Q:  Is there a possibility that you missed a dose or took double dose at some times recently?

 

We've had members since the beginning of this year posting that they are experiencing unexpected/worse waves.  2020 has been a very strange year with a lot of added stress from the covid situation.  Your vasectomy is a stress.  Being in pain is a stress.  Being home is a stress.

 

We also have members who find that there are doses which they have more difficulty with and once they are past that range of dosing they can taper the same as they were before.  But there is no rule about when, what dose, what drug, etc.

 

If I recall correctly I think BrassMonkey said that poop out comes on gradually.

 

Thanks Chessie,

 

I haven't missed a single dose in a year or so that's not a problem..

 

I dissolve 40 mg citalopram in 50 ml of water. Then I measure 6 equal volumes of 7.0 ml(or whatever is needed in my taper schedule) and that is for 3 days. I take 5.5 mg citalopram in the morning and 5.5 mg in the afternoon. I use a magnetic stirring device and a volumetric pipette.

So the amount of medication is very accurate and exact. I've been working in a lab for 20 years so that is my advantage 😉.

 

I indeed have the feeling that tapering around 11 mg is very hard for me. I went from 11.15 to 11 and last 2 weeks and I feel miserable.

Currently I have holidays and I eat a lot of junk food and lots of carbs. I'm much more exhausted, don't know what to do and I'm pretty agitated. My boys are excited of course and I can't keep up with their enthusiasm. I looked forward to this vacation but I feel empty and drained.

 

I doubt this is due to my vasectomy 3 weeks ago. Personally I think eating a lot of carbs in the evening and waking up tired and feeling like crying is causing the problems. Especially days where we don't plan something to do are hard for me. Just sitting in our backyard and eat something, wait for our baby boy to wake up

 

. I'm still planning on quiting caffeine. When I drink coffee in the morning I feel euphoric and after half an hour or so I get emotional and unstable. Before I drink the coffee I feel depressed and extremely tired.

 

 

On 8/13/2020 at 5:46 AM, bunchesofoats said:

Hey jozeff,

 

I think sunny makes a good point about the stress of the surgery and anesthesia interaction, even if only local. I don't have explanations, I wish I did, but I wanted to let you know that I seem to be just as sensitive as you are. I'm currently dropping by 0.5% every 3 days, but sometimes hanging out for 4 or 5 days if I feel the need. I'm currently at 10.6mg. So it seems we're at similar points with high sensitivities. I had paused for 5 months at 11mg because of the stress of the pandemic and some other life issues. My current method which I've been doing for a month now has been working well with no huge swings, but I'm not asymptomatic. The mild symptoms are mostly manageable, but a few days have been painful and unproductive. I also haven't had any major life events in this time.

 

I found this paper discussing a gene polymorphism that correlated with people who had more trouble discontinuing paroxetine. I had my genome sequenced a few years back. I found that I actually have two copies of the problematic allele discussed in the paper. I'm hoping to find more helpful information in the future. It would make sense that some of us have genes that give us more trouble with these medications.

 

Regarding the caffeine: I've seen a lot of people here say cutting it out helped tremendously. I cut out coffee years ago and I'm very sensitive even to decaf coffee now. I miss the flavor so much! I do have an unsweetened hot cocoa every morning, but that's about it. If I have chocolate in the afternoon or evening I feel the effects. Congrats on cutting the diet coke!

 

I (and some people in my life) have had a hard time accepting that I could really be so sensitive. But time and again I see that it really is the case. I found this website recently. It's a simple layout for withdrawal symptoms and coping strategies. It helped me to once again see another source that showed me I'm not the only one experiencing these weird things, and that acceptance plays a key role in the healing process.

 

It sounds like you had some good days, and then you had an experience that upset your balance. Perhaps take a break, and when your symptoms subside, keep going down slowly, giving yourself several days after each drop or other balance upset to watch for symptoms. I think that's the fastest way.

 

Perhaps it's our scientific orientation that makes it so difficult for us to accept without explanation, but I see now that acceptance must come first, and explanation will come in time, at least some of it. Our understanding of ourselves will grow and scientific studies will progress our collective knowledge of how these medications interact with our bodies and the connection to what we experience.

 

Sorry for the very long post, I hope it helpful in even the slightest way. I have a lot of thoughts, too many thoughts on this subject 😁. I wish you well!

 

 

 

 

Thank you also bunchesofoats!

 

 

You are almost tapering exactly the same way as I do!  Could it be that 0.5 % every 3 days is too fast?

I taper 0.4% every 3 days ( 3 days same dose 4th day taper).  I did this 3 times in a row (about 1.2%) and have been miserable for days in a row.

 

The problem is that I don't know what the cause of my misery is. Could be the taper or a miserable night or the bag of chips I ate..... Hard to figure out.

 

I feel that the citalopram has to leave my body so I can feel some positive emotions. But each time I taper I feel miserable as well. I've had a 3 month hold or so but I didn't feel better so I'm in doubt.

 

Somehow I want to push through and taper like 10% a month and make some progress.  My current taper would take years and years and that is just too much. Maybe I feel just as miserable when I take 10mg, 9 mg .8mg etc.... I know someone who tapered like this to 3 mg and then crashed hard (was it LeoD)?

 

Maybe I just have to hold a couple of months just like you did....... Each time  I think, what the hell I just take a little less citalopram. So I'm micro tapering although I think I'm holding....

 

 

Thanks for your insight!!!

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

[ChessieCat]

30 minutes ago, jozeff said:

I'm still planning on quiting caffeine. When I drink coffee in the morning I feel euphoric and after half an hour or so I get emotional and unstable. Before I drink the coffee I feel depressed and extremely tired.

 

If you drink powdered or granulated coffee (ie not pods) you can taper off the caffeine coffee by using part caffeine part decaf or coffee substitute.  I quite like the coffee substitute called Nature's Cuppa.  It's sort of half way between a coffee and a chocolate.

[jozeff]

Hi, I have caffeine powder and decaffeinated coffee so I can taper if I want to. I'm just scared to start because I drink coffee daily since age 18 and I'm 44 years old now. I literally need it to survive at least that's how it feels.

 

I forgot to drink it when my son was born in 2019 one day. Extreme headache that disappeared in 5 minutes after taking a sip..

 

I really really wonder if quitting caffeine has anything to do with my problems. Maybe I got sensitised in my citalopram years. I have had anxiety problems since tapering citalopram 2 or 3 years ago...

 

In April 2018 I was at 25 mg citalopram, now I'm at 10.98. that is quite an accomplishment but I started way too fast because I didn't know about the 10% rule.... That destabilized me in such a way and I crashed in June 2018.

Unbelievable that it messed things up big-time.

 

Each time I taper now I feel terrible (not always However....) I had some success last summer by going from 18 to 17 to 16 mg. That gave me hope.

 

How am I supposed to taper when going really low like 1 mg and so on? This will take years....

 

Could it be that I am still unstable from my fast taper in may 2018? I tried to stabilize  for 8 months from Aug 2018 to April 2019 on 18 mg citalopram.

 

I started current taper on the day my youngest son was born..... Maybe not the best decision looking back. 

Maybe it's better to hold right now. Just forget about tapering for a while and focus on diet, excersize and quiting caffeine.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

20 minutes ago, jozeff said:

Maybe it's better to hold right now. Just forget about tapering for a while and focus on diet, excersize and quiting caffeine.

 

That might be the way to go.  Sometimes it can be good just to put tapering on the back burner for a while and try and enjoy life for a bit without the stress of tapering.

 

22 minutes ago, jozeff said:

How am I supposed to taper when going really low like 1 mg and so on? This will take years....

 

I know it's frustrating, but it really doesn't matter how long it takes.  Think of it from the benefit of reducing your drug load rather than getting off the drug.  I'm at 0.75mg and I've still got at least 1 year to go.  I was hoping to be off by my 60th birthday.  I'll be 63 later this year so I'll be almost 64 when I get off.  And then I will celebrate sans wine.  I'm thinking about a meerkat encounter.

[bunchesofoats]

On 8/17/2020 at 3:49 AM, ChessieCat said:

I know it's frustrating, but it really doesn't matter how long it takes.  Think of it from the benefit of reducing your drug load rather than getting off the drug. 

Thanks for the wisdom as always @ChessieCat. My partner also reminds me of this - that tapering doesn't have to put your life on hold, so it doesn't matter how long it takes, as long as symptoms aren't debilitating. I also would much rather the drug be totally out of my system, but it looks as though slowly is the way it has to go, at least for now.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but it seems that holding until you feel reasonably good would be the way to go. Then, proceed in such a way that you can maintain feeling "reasonably good." I track my symptoms daily so I can take a look at a somewhat "objective" measure of how I'm doing. That's how I know what "reasonably good" means for me. It's also just a great way to reflect, to check in, and to see that it really isn't all bad (or good) days. I try not to worry now about what it will be like when I'm at much lower dosages, because there really is no way for me to know now. I have to just focus on the steps that I am currently taking. That's not to say it never gets to me, because it certainly does.

 

Looking forward to more of your updates jozeff.

[bunchesofoats]

Hey @jozeff, curious how you're doing. Hope you're doing well!

[jozeff]

Hi guys,

 

 

Little update..... Continued my 1,25,% per week taper last months. Could that even be to fast??? Two months ago I was at 11 mg citalopram, now I'm at 10,60. I mean, that is quite a slow taper right? I did 4 weeks 1,25% in a row and today I feel horrible.

 

 

. I've been thinking about cutting carbs but I don't know if that is truly healthy. I mean, people have been eating oats, grains for thousands of years. It is of course true that ancient people are way less carbs than we do but the ate carbs for sure.

I try to eat a shake with kale, berries, oats, spices, olive oil, pees, and cottage cheese 4 or 5 times a week. 2 apples a day, some carrots, peanut butter and normal dinner. Plenty of water and a few cups of coffee. That should be healthy enough compared to a lot of people I think.

 

I cut out diet coke completely.

 

Do you guys sometimes wonder if it is wd or just us getting older, more worried?

 

I mean, taper is so slow. It really shouldn't cause that many problems. 1% per week is very slow for a lot of biological processes. That is about 25 times as slow as my doctor recommended. What if I'd listened to him. Would we be drug free and happy or would we be bed ridden for years?

 

I've been having some ok weeks but last two days I feel quite horrible. Muscle ache, feel like crying but can't, lot of tension in neck, back of head and feeling of doom. Just doom, no concrete danger, just feeling of unhappiness and dread.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

[Leila]

Hey @jozef, I’m sorry for your condition...I want to say to you that I’m near to you because I’m experimenting in my ADWD the same sensations and issues ...It’s horrible! I don’t know if it’s related to the same drug we took (citalopram)... 

[Leila]

Hi @jozeff, I want to check...How is now your muscle tension? I hope you can find some relief🙏

[jozeff]

Hey Leila,

 

 

[Leila]

18 hours ago, jozeff said:

Hey Leila,

 

 

Hey @jozeff! Maybe you lost your text while you were posting!🤔 

[jozeff]

Haha, I lost a lot of text Leila!

 

Muscle tension has not been very well unfortunately. As long as I lie down or take hot bath everything is ok. Day at work however causes extreme fatigue in neck and shoulders.

 

A lot of tension tends to build up in my neck and shoulders. Never headache fortunately. This neck and shoulder stress makes me tired and irritable and ramps up my depressive symptoms quite a bit. Sometimes I wonder if it's depression or shoulder neck pain. What happened first? I really couldn't tell.

 

I tried to do regular exercises of work, apply heat 3 Times a Day to relax muscles and I look after my posture. Sometimes it's busy at work and I'm unconsciously stuck way to long in one posture.

Only thing that really helps is sleep.

 

How is you saffron going along?

I experimented with that stuff quite a bit and it helped me a lot in a particular period but didn't help a couple of months later. I used to take 25 mg per day. What's the working dose? They say it might interfere with citalopram....

 

Cheers and good luck!

 

Jozeff

[Leila]

Hey Jozeff🙂,

yes, I think daily posture doesn’t help with muscle tension. In my modest opinion, muscle tension needs also some aerobic exercise (like running) that can help to discharge...I found that inner tension (from thoughts or emotional stress) exacerbate this issue...so maybe it’s a vicious circle (depression/anxiety cause tensione and vice) and we need to break this for some relief. As you know, sometimes it’s only chemical WD and in this case we can’t do nothing, except accepting, if we can...

About saffron, I don’t know...My psychiatrist gave it when I stopped citalopram like maintenance therapy (30 mg daily)...I studied a lot medical papers and It doesn’t seem interacte with AD but sometimes help to increase antidepressant power. In some study AD and saffron were used in a combined manner...

By the way, I think  that it can contribute to raise up my mood and know are four months that I take it. I’m a little bit scared to take it off at this point because I don’t know if (like other natural supplements) can develope rebound effect... how long do you take it? Did you notice some side effect when you stop it?

I wish you a pleasant week!🙂

[jozeff]

Thanks Leila,

 

I didn't notice a difference when quiting saffron.

 

As I mentioned before the first time I took saffron I noticed a significant ligt in depressed mood. After six weeks or so this effect stopped and eventually I stopped taking it.

 

The second time I took it I didn't notice any difference in mood unfortunately. I was tapering citalopram while taking citalopram so that is interfering with my experiences I guess.

 

Wish you a good week too.!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[HardTimes]

Hey Joseff

I found you as I was reading @Leila's thread and I noticed you said something about neck pain/tension. I've now read a little bit of your thread, and it sounds like we have a few things in common (same drug, some of the same symptoms, same age).

 

My neck pain/stiffness/tingling was one of my first and strongest symptoms, and it is still around. One diagnosis to look at is "occipital neuralgia", if you haven't already done so. This involves a tightness around a nerve right at the base of the skull that can cause shooting pain/tingling up the scalp. Normally it is only on one side - for me it is both, or right up the middle (which might indicate it isn't, in fact, occipital neuralgia?). It can also cause headaches behind the eyes, as the pain moves up the nerves connected to the eyes. Apparently it isn't necessarily too severe, nor dangerous, and there are forms of treatment. The kineseologist gave me some good exercises that kind of work if you do them regularly. If you hear lots of crackling and popping sounds when you roll your neck around, apparently this isn't a bad thing (THOUGH I AM NOT A DOCTOR - your case might be different!) - it isn't your vertebrae rubbing together, it is somehow gas being released from the muscles. So if you can get into some regular neck movement exercises it might help. Also, for more severe cases they can do an injection - if you are wary of drugs you'll want to investigate that option thoroughly, but apparently it is quite effective for several months. Also of some interest: at least according to wikipedia, one of the things they prescribe for occipital neuralgia is... antidepressants! So I guess there is some logic there: if you reduce the ADs, you increase the ON.

 

Anyway, not sure if this will be of any help to you or anyone else, but I thought I'd float it out there. We're in opposite positions: you're trying to slowly come off the stuff and I'm trying to slowly reinstate somehow, but I think our goals are ultimately similar!

[ChessieCat]

Hi Jozeff,

 

Please reduce the font size in your drug signature.  Thank you.

[jozeff]

On 12/13/2020 at 10:52 PM, ChessieCat said:

Hi Jozeff,

 

Please reduce the font size in your drug signature.  Thank you.

Consider it done ☺️

[jozeff]

Thanks hardtimes!

 

Appreciate your message! I'm very busy at the moment so I didn't find the time to react earlier. I'm always struggling with neck and backpain. I have visited several physiotherapists in the past and also quite a few chiropractors. Conclusion is that I exercise way yltooLittle and my muscles stiff. I do a lot of standing and sitting a front of my computer. Bad posture.... When I notice the pain creeping up on me it's too late kost of the time.

 

My update:

 

I gave up caffeine about 3 weeks ago!!

 

After 25 years of daily 500 -1000 ml coffee drinking.....

 

I tapered this down for about 5-weeks. Noticed some anxiety and some mild pain in my forehead. Have some increased depression to be honest. I read a lot about caffeine wd and some people have a lot of symptoms for months.

 

I'm way more tired in the evening and miss the boost in the morning. also way more depression symptoms in the morning and early evening. 

 

But...... My heart rhythm is way way better. Slower heartbeat, less anxiety and the greatest achievement is that I'm much more relaxed and way less agitated. I haven't felt this lack of agitation in years! I have been so agressive and full of adrenaline the last couple of years I thought this was normal but it looks like caffeine did the trick🙁

 

The coffee made me so crawling out of my skin. People annoyed me very quickly and now I'm way more at ease.

 

I have been at 10 mg citalopram for a couple of weeks and I have decided to stay on this dose for quite some ttim.

Maybe after the winter and when pandemic is over I'll taper again.

 

Hope you are all well and have a beautiful new year's Eve!!

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

[bunchesofoats]

Happy new year @jozeff! How has it been going with your 10mg hold and lowered caffeine intake?

[jozeff]

Hi bunches,

 

Thanks a lot for your best wishes! As you might have noticed I'm not that active lately. Just going with the flow. I'm still taking 10 mg daily. No hurry to decrease. When the weather gets better and our 1 year old sleeps a bit better I will try to taper again.

 

Caffeine I managed to completely ban it from my diet. Man, that was tough! Especially at work where I can drink as much as I want all day long.

My cravings were bad. I had more trouble staying of caffeine than alcohol 7 years ago. I am a recovered alcoholic and have been in rehab so that says a lot. The craving was more severe but lasted shorter with alcohol. The mental effects of quitting alcohol are much more serious though.

 

How are you doing lately? Best wishes to you too. I hope you are doing just fine!!

 

Cheers

Jozef

 

 

 

 

[RusTW]

On 3/8/2020 at 1:12 AM, jozeff said:

Hi thanks for stopping by!

 

I've been having a rough couple of weeks to be honest.

 

I have been doing a 1.25% per week taper for the last 8 weeks. I used to do a bit of a jumpy taper but decided to stick to this method. After 6 weeks I started to feel very inconvenient going from anger to severe depression and crying spells, fighting with my wife who is completely soaked up by our 10 month old boy. She's fed up with my symptoms and it is quite obvious that it's not her priority at the moment how I'm feeling. We don't communicate that well and we end up in an argument pretty fast.

 

She definitely does the best she can to be a great mother and wife to us. It's just that these symptoms change a lot and make me utterly desperate.

 

I've been having strong suicidal thoughts lately. The fact that my sleep is awful 5out of 7 days make me unstable and emotional.

 

The days at work are ok but my says off are awful. Just don't Know what to do. I'm very agitated by my family members and don't seem to find peace in relaxing things.

 

I've been abstinent for nearly 6 years but the sedation of alcohol is getting more and more appealing to me. Bad thing.

 

Most of the days I feel completely fine in the evening. Around noon and early afternoon are horrendous.

 

I feel tired, hopeless and emotional many days in a row. I'm trying to give up caffeine because i take too much of it.

 

It feels like Im very agitated or stimulated by something and I don't know what it is. I'm searching like crazy for a solution....

 

I find it just unbelievable that such a slow taper (which I'm doing) may be causing these major problems.....

 

Do you think this is the case or are there other things going on here.....

 

 

 

Cheers

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Friend relationships are hard in withdraw .

In my case it was a Perpetual situational anxiety issue. I would be super nervous before I would come home from work because I knew she would be on me about stuff. This would add to my withdraw and neuro emotions.

Tapering during this is very hard to because it makes you more susceptible.

From my perspective people that are not in withdrawal will never understand it as much as they try.

When I moved away from this relationship my recovery increased rapidly. Not saying that your relationship is causing you your symptoms but they can definitely aggravate them keeps you locked in to a certain frame of thinking

Bless you and your family 

Stay strong 

Russ

[bunchesofoats]

Glad to hear you're doing relatively well @jozeff. Besides the difficulty staying away from caffeine, how are your withdrawal related symptoms? I'm curious how much they've subsided now that you've been holding at 10mg.

[jozeff]

Hi guys,

 

Short update. Ive had an operation. Abdominal wall fracture. At the moment i'm recovering from anesthesia.

 

Still taking 10 mg citalopram daily. No nausea at the moment and perfectly fine. Just a bit emotional from anesthesia. Almost no anxiety today and doing fine.

 

I drink about 1/5 of caffeine  since 2 months. That has helped tremendously  with anxiety. Way less heart palpitations,  chest pressure and just relaxing feeling over-all.

 

Now 2 weeks recovery.

 

Cheers and hope you guys are doing better than  before.....that means you are healing!

 

Jozeff

 

[jozeff]

Hi guys,

 

It's been 2 weeks since my operation. Things are relatively well. The 1st week I had some trouble sleeping probably because of the  anestesia.

 

 After 4 months of taking 10 mg citalopram daily I decided to start tapering again. I jumped to 9.8 mg for a week and now on 9.5 mg. Today I suddenly had a very awful feeling and started ruminating again how fast I should taper and if I'm going too quickly.....the same old thoughts again.

 

I felt awful  many times while being "stable" on 10 mg so I guess it's just normal wd.

 

Well, that's it for now. I hope everyone  is doing just fine.

 

Thanks for stopping by  Bunches and RusTw!

 

I haven't  been very active on the forum last couple of months. Just trying to survive and do my things. I was on the forum daily 2 years ago but I just got a bit tired of it all. The wd was literally  consuming my brain...

 

Cheers!

 

Jozeff

 

 

[bunchesofoats]

Hey @jozeff, I had an abdominal operation right around the same time as you! Funny how much our experiences have paralleled each other. Glad things have been going relatively ok for you and I wish you even more relief from symptoms to come. I'm impressed you've been able to stay away from alcohol and now significantly limit your caffeine intake. These are huge achievements and I believe they will offer you a better chance of feeling good in the long run.

[jozeff]

Hi bunches!

 

Thanks for stopping by.  Yes our paths seem quite similar. I see that you are tapering 0.6 % per months. That's pretty slow but hey, you are decreasing and that's important. Maybe you can go a little faster in a while. A couple of % per months seems reasonable.  I did like 9 or 10 % last month and I had dome awful  feelings but I survived.  I just wanted to speed up things. The way I tapered would take 15 years and I don't like that idea. I want to drop a couple of mg and continue slower taper from there.

 

Hope you are doing fine.

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff