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jozeff: trying to come off of citalopram - a little help would be great

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jozeff

Thanks alto!

 

To be honest I've read most of these links/subjects many times. I've been around here for 2 years here and literally trying to read as much as I can to find the holy Grail....

 

 

Thanks anyway, appreciate it!

 

Cheers Jozeff

 


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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Altostrata

jozeff, wherever you go, there you are. If your longstanding habits of mind are causing problems for you, you need to replace them with better habits.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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jozeff

Hi all,

 

A quick question.

 

My blood levels of vitamin d = 39 ng/l (94nmol/l)

My B12 = 307 pmol/l

 

My doctor didn't say anything about these values because these are considered normal... However, I'm a bit worried about the kind of low B12...

 

What do you guys think??

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Jozeff


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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ChessieCat
Posted (edited)

Here's SA's topic:

 

vitamin-b12-essential-for-mood-nervous-system

 

I take a sublingual Activated Methyl B12 1000mcg every second day.  Previously I had been using the other type but the chemist assistant told me that the methylated is absorbed better.

 

Excess is excreted in the urine.

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
corrected B12 type

REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat

I've edited my previous post.  My B12 is Activated Methyl.


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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jozeff

  Hi guys,

 

Time for an update.

Things have been going on and off lately. Not too well but sometimes not too bad either.

 

I had a vasectomy two weeks ago and had to take a week off from work and that didn't go very smooth because I had to spend the week on my couch lying down. I hadn't been tapering for a week or two but staying at home ramped thing up.

 

I continued my micro taper 7 days ago. I prepare a citalopram solution for 3 days and decrease 0.4% every time. This is truly very slowly but after a couple of days (and 0.8% lower dose) I start to feel very bad. Derealization, feeling very stimulated and just want to crawl out my skin  some days.

 

Yesterday was perfectly fine but today is absolutely awful. It's 35 degrees Celsius here, sunny, swimming all day with my boys but I still feel horrible. I just cannot believe that such a small decrease in dose could have such an impact.

 

I mean, I went from 11.1 mg citalopram to 11.05 mg for three days and then to 11.0 mg three days later.

 

Could this really be too fast?? I just cannot believe that?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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sunnysideup69

Hi @jozeff,

Wondering if your current wave is caused by the vasectomy. You must have had a general anaesthetic, plus any kind of surgery is going to be stressful to the body. 

So, maybe the anaesthetic/ surgical stress has caused the wave?

What do you reckon? I know you had the surgery before you dropped dosage, but I guess these things can take a while to create waves.....plus being at home, incapacitated.

Hoping it passed for you soon.


January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg

March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback

April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg

May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback

June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg

July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg

June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram

August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR

 

 

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jozeff

Thanks for your reply sunny!

 

Well, the surgery was local anesthesia and it was only 2 small injections , 2 small cuts and I was up and running in 15 minutes. No problemo.!

 

It was after 2 days and me refusing to wear tight boxershorts that things got a little sensitive do I decided to take the week off. Things were ok except for my private parts being a bit painful.

 

This week is different. I felt ok and went down 0.4% citalopram and after 3 days made another 0.4% cut. Now, 3days after the total of 0.8% taper I feel very unpleasant, anxious and strange feeling in my head and extremely tired waking up.

 

Can such a small cut make me feel that unpleasant? If that is the case I need to make even smaller cuts and my taper would take 15 years or so.... completely rediculous.

 

Sometimes I just want to jump 10 or 15 percent and see what happens... Going from 11 to 10, 9,8,7 etc.. and start micro tapering at 5 mg or so.

 

Maybe I'm pooped out and less toxin is helpful or.......I need to go to ER because my body is completely messed up.

 

I'm at 11 mg citalopram (Aug 2020) and in may 2020 I was at 11.3 mg. I haven't even reached the danger zone where receptor occupancy is a big issue.

 

This is going to take forever this way.

 

I bought 50 gram caffeine and want to start tapering coffee intake. Some days at work I drink like 1 liter of (weak) coffee per day. Maybe there is a problem too.

 

I managed to completely quit drinking diet coke since end May 2020!

I drank 2 litres each day which was about 220 mg caffeine. Combined with the coffee I was taking I totalled  400-450 mg caffeine every day.

 

Now I'm at about 250 mg caffeine and trying to taper that. Haven't started yet but im thinking maybe 5% cut every day and take 2 months to completely go off of it.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and hope you are doing great!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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ChessieCat
Posted (edited)

Q:  Is there a possibility that you missed a dose or took double dose at some times recently?

 

We've had members since the beginning of this year posting that they are experiencing unexpected/worse waves.  2020 has been a very strange year with a lot of added stress from the covid situation.  Your vasectomy is a stress.  Being in pain is a stress.  Being home is a stress.

 

We also have members who find that there are doses which they have more difficulty with and once they are past that range of dosing they can taper the same as they were before.  But there is no rule about when, what dose, what drug, etc.

 

If I recall correctly I think BrassMonkey said that poop out comes on gradually.

 

Edited by ChessieCat

REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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bunchesofoats

Hey jozeff,

 

I think sunny makes a good point about the stress of the surgery and anesthesia interaction, even if only local. I don't have explanations, I wish I did, but I wanted to let you know that I seem to be just as sensitive as you are. I'm currently dropping by 0.5% every 3 days, but sometimes hanging out for 4 or 5 days if I feel the need. I'm currently at 10.6mg. So it seems we're at similar points with high sensitivities. I had paused for 5 months at 11mg because of the stress of the pandemic and some other life issues. My current method which I've been doing for a month now has been working well with no huge swings, but I'm not asymptomatic. The mild symptoms are mostly manageable, but a few days have been painful and unproductive. I also haven't had any major life events in this time.

 

I found this paper discussing a gene polymorphism that correlated with people who had more trouble discontinuing paroxetine. I had my genome sequenced a few years back. I found that I actually have two copies of the problematic allele discussed in the paper. I'm hoping to find more helpful information in the future. It would make sense that some of us have genes that give us more trouble with these medications.

 

Regarding the caffeine: I've seen a lot of people here say cutting it out helped tremendously. I cut out coffee years ago and I'm very sensitive even to decaf coffee now. I miss the flavor so much! I do have an unsweetened hot cocoa every morning, but that's about it. If I have chocolate in the afternoon or evening I feel the effects. Congrats on cutting the diet coke!

 

I (and some people in my life) have had a hard time accepting that I could really be so sensitive. But time and again I see that it really is the case. I found this website recently. It's a simple layout for withdrawal symptoms and coping strategies. It helped me to once again see another source that showed me I'm not the only one experiencing these weird things, and that acceptance plays a key role in the healing process.

 

It sounds like you had some good days, and then you had an experience that upset your balance. Perhaps take a break, and when your symptoms subside, keep going down slowly, giving yourself several days after each drop or other balance upset to watch for symptoms. I think that's the fastest way.

 

Perhaps it's our scientific orientation that makes it so difficult for us to accept without explanation, but I see now that acceptance must come first, and explanation will come in time, at least some of it. Our understanding of ourselves will grow and scientific studies will progress our collective knowledge of how these medications interact with our bodies and the connection to what we experience.

 

Sorry for the very long post, I hope it helpful in even the slightest way. I have a lot of thoughts, too many thoughts on this subject 😁. I wish you well!

 


2005-2009 18mg concerta on and off

2009-2013 ritalin and wellbutrin on and off; 2010 nortryptyline & amitriptyline for back pain following car accident

2014 April - lamictal for 2 weeks until breaking out in hives and going to ER, dr bullied me into taking it

~ st. john's wort, rhodiola, lots of other supplements tried

2016 Nov - began citalopram (4 months)

2017 March  - reached dose of 30mg citalopram (11 months)

2018 Feb - began taper, ~2.5mg/month, cutting tablets (3 months)

2018 May - 20mg, tried ~17.5mg but symptoms too strong (11 months)

2018 Nov - brief stint trying wellbutrin again, stopped within a couple months

2019 April - began ~5%/month taper from 20mg using dissolve in water and measure with syringe method

2020 January - stopped lorazepam; 0.5mg lorazepam average 3x/month since began citalopram; at most 3x/week

2020 October - 10.35mg, -4%/month, slowly, slowly

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jozeff
On 8/12/2020 at 9:59 AM, ChessieCat said:

Q:  Is there a possibility that you missed a dose or took double dose at some times recently?

 

We've had members since the beginning of this year posting that they are experiencing unexpected/worse waves.  2020 has been a very strange year with a lot of added stress from the covid situation.  Your vasectomy is a stress.  Being in pain is a stress.  Being home is a stress.

 

We also have members who find that there are doses which they have more difficulty with and once they are past that range of dosing they can taper the same as they were before.  But there is no rule about when, what dose, what drug, etc.

 

If I recall correctly I think BrassMonkey said that poop out comes on gradually.

 

Thanks Chessie,

 

I haven't missed a single dose in a year or so that's not a problem..

 

I dissolve 40 mg citalopram in 50 ml of water. Then I measure 6 equal volumes of 7.0 ml(or whatever is needed in my taper schedule) and that is for 3 days. I take 5.5 mg citalopram in the morning and 5.5 mg in the afternoon. I use a magnetic stirring device and a volumetric pipette.

So the amount of medication is very accurate and exact. I've been working in a lab for 20 years so that is my advantage 😉.

 

I indeed have the feeling that tapering around 11 mg is very hard for me. I went from 11.15 to 11 and last 2 weeks and I feel miserable.

Currently I have holidays and I eat a lot of junk food and lots of carbs. I'm much more exhausted, don't know what to do and I'm pretty agitated. My boys are excited of course and I can't keep up with their enthusiasm. I looked forward to this vacation but I feel empty and drained.

 

I doubt this is due to my vasectomy 3 weeks ago. Personally I think eating a lot of carbs in the evening and waking up tired and feeling like crying is causing the problems. Especially days where we don't plan something to do are hard for me. Just sitting in our backyard and eat something, wait for our baby boy to wake up

 

. I'm still planning on quiting caffeine. When I drink coffee in the morning I feel euphoric and after half an hour or so I get emotional and unstable. Before I drink the coffee I feel depressed and extremely tired.

 

 

On 8/13/2020 at 5:46 AM, bunchesofoats said:

Hey jozeff,

 

I think sunny makes a good point about the stress of the surgery and anesthesia interaction, even if only local. I don't have explanations, I wish I did, but I wanted to let you know that I seem to be just as sensitive as you are. I'm currently dropping by 0.5% every 3 days, but sometimes hanging out for 4 or 5 days if I feel the need. I'm currently at 10.6mg. So it seems we're at similar points with high sensitivities. I had paused for 5 months at 11mg because of the stress of the pandemic and some other life issues. My current method which I've been doing for a month now has been working well with no huge swings, but I'm not asymptomatic. The mild symptoms are mostly manageable, but a few days have been painful and unproductive. I also haven't had any major life events in this time.

 

I found this paper discussing a gene polymorphism that correlated with people who had more trouble discontinuing paroxetine. I had my genome sequenced a few years back. I found that I actually have two copies of the problematic allele discussed in the paper. I'm hoping to find more helpful information in the future. It would make sense that some of us have genes that give us more trouble with these medications.

 

Regarding the caffeine: I've seen a lot of people here say cutting it out helped tremendously. I cut out coffee years ago and I'm very sensitive even to decaf coffee now. I miss the flavor so much! I do have an unsweetened hot cocoa every morning, but that's about it. If I have chocolate in the afternoon or evening I feel the effects. Congrats on cutting the diet coke!

 

I (and some people in my life) have had a hard time accepting that I could really be so sensitive. But time and again I see that it really is the case. I found this website recently. It's a simple layout for withdrawal symptoms and coping strategies. It helped me to once again see another source that showed me I'm not the only one experiencing these weird things, and that acceptance plays a key role in the healing process.

 

It sounds like you had some good days, and then you had an experience that upset your balance. Perhaps take a break, and when your symptoms subside, keep going down slowly, giving yourself several days after each drop or other balance upset to watch for symptoms. I think that's the fastest way.

 

Perhaps it's our scientific orientation that makes it so difficult for us to accept without explanation, but I see now that acceptance must come first, and explanation will come in time, at least some of it. Our understanding of ourselves will grow and scientific studies will progress our collective knowledge of how these medications interact with our bodies and the connection to what we experience.

 

Sorry for the very long post, I hope it helpful in even the slightest way. I have a lot of thoughts, too many thoughts on this subject 😁. I wish you well!

 

 

 

 

Thank you also bunchesofoats!

 

 

You are almost tapering exactly the same way as I do!  Could it be that 0.5 % every 3 days is too fast?

I taper 0.4% every 3 days ( 3 days same dose 4th day taper).  I did this 3 times in a row (about 1.2%) and have been miserable for days in a row.

 

The problem is that I don't know what the cause of my misery is. Could be the taper or a miserable night or the bag of chips I ate..... Hard to figure out.

 

I feel that the citalopram has to leave my body so I can feel some positive emotions. But each time I taper I feel miserable as well. I've had a 3 month hold or so but I didn't feel better so I'm in doubt.

 

Somehow I want to push through and taper like 10% a month and make some progress.  My current taper would take years and years and that is just too much. Maybe I feel just as miserable when I take 10mg, 9 mg .8mg etc.... I know someone who tapered like this to 3 mg and then crashed hard (was it LeoD)?

 

Maybe I just have to hold a couple of months just like you did....... Each time  I think, what the hell I just take a little less citalopram. So I'm micro tapering although I think I'm holding....

 

 

Thanks for your insight!!!

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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ChessieCat
30 minutes ago, jozeff said:

I'm still planning on quiting caffeine. When I drink coffee in the morning I feel euphoric and after half an hour or so I get emotional and unstable. Before I drink the coffee I feel depressed and extremely tired.

 

If you drink powdered or granulated coffee (ie not pods) you can taper off the caffeine coffee by using part caffeine part decaf or coffee substitute.  I quite like the coffee substitute called Nature's Cuppa.  It's sort of half way between a coffee and a chocolate.


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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jozeff

Hi, I have caffeine powder and decaffeinated coffee so I can taper if I want to. I'm just scared to start because I drink coffee daily since age 18 and I'm 44 years old now. I literally need it to survive at least that's how it feels.

 

I forgot to drink it when my son was born in 2019 one day. Extreme headache that disappeared in 5 minutes after taking a sip..

 

I really really wonder if quitting caffeine has anything to do with my problems. Maybe I got sensitised in my citalopram years. I have had anxiety problems since tapering citalopram 2 or 3 years ago...

 

In April 2018 I was at 25 mg citalopram, now I'm at 10.98. that is quite an accomplishment but I started way too fast because I didn't know about the 10% rule.... That destabilized me in such a way and I crashed in June 2018.

Unbelievable that it messed things up big-time.

 

Each time I taper now I feel terrible (not always However....) I had some success last summer by going from 18 to 17 to 16 mg. That gave me hope.

 

How am I supposed to taper when going really low like 1 mg and so on? This will take years....

 

Could it be that I am still unstable from my fast taper in may 2018? I tried to stabilize  for 8 months from Aug 2018 to April 2019 on 18 mg citalopram.

 

I started current taper on the day my youngest son was born..... Maybe not the best decision looking back. 

Maybe it's better to hold right now. Just forget about tapering for a while and focus on diet, excersize and quiting caffeine.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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ChessieCat
20 minutes ago, jozeff said:

Maybe it's better to hold right now. Just forget about tapering for a while and focus on diet, excersize and quiting caffeine.

 

That might be the way to go.  Sometimes it can be good just to put tapering on the back burner for a while and try and enjoy life for a bit without the stress of tapering.

 

22 minutes ago, jozeff said:

How am I supposed to taper when going really low like 1 mg and so on? This will take years....

 

I know it's frustrating, but it really doesn't matter how long it takes.  Think of it from the benefit of reducing your drug load rather than getting off the drug.  I'm at 0.75mg and I've still got at least 1 year to go.  I was hoping to be off by my 60th birthday.  I'll be 63 later this year so I'll be almost 64 when I get off.  And then I will celebrate sans wine.  I'm thinking about a meerkat encounter.


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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bunchesofoats
On 8/17/2020 at 3:49 AM, ChessieCat said:

I know it's frustrating, but it really doesn't matter how long it takes.  Think of it from the benefit of reducing your drug load rather than getting off the drug. 

Thanks for the wisdom as always @ChessieCat. My partner also reminds me of this - that tapering doesn't have to put your life on hold, so it doesn't matter how long it takes, as long as symptoms aren't debilitating. I also would much rather the drug be totally out of my system, but it looks as though slowly is the way it has to go, at least for now.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but it seems that holding until you feel reasonably good would be the way to go. Then, proceed in such a way that you can maintain feeling "reasonably good." I track my symptoms daily so I can take a look at a somewhat "objective" measure of how I'm doing. That's how I know what "reasonably good" means for me. It's also just a great way to reflect, to check in, and to see that it really isn't all bad (or good) days. I try not to worry now about what it will be like when I'm at much lower dosages, because there really is no way for me to know now. I have to just focus on the steps that I am currently taking. That's not to say it never gets to me, because it certainly does.

 

Looking forward to more of your updates jozeff.


2005-2009 18mg concerta on and off

2009-2013 ritalin and wellbutrin on and off; 2010 nortryptyline & amitriptyline for back pain following car accident

2014 April - lamictal for 2 weeks until breaking out in hives and going to ER, dr bullied me into taking it

~ st. john's wort, rhodiola, lots of other supplements tried

2016 Nov - began citalopram (4 months)

2017 March  - reached dose of 30mg citalopram (11 months)

2018 Feb - began taper, ~2.5mg/month, cutting tablets (3 months)

2018 May - 20mg, tried ~17.5mg but symptoms too strong (11 months)

2018 Nov - brief stint trying wellbutrin again, stopped within a couple months

2019 April - began ~5%/month taper from 20mg using dissolve in water and measure with syringe method

2020 January - stopped lorazepam; 0.5mg lorazepam average 3x/month since began citalopram; at most 3x/week

2020 October - 10.35mg, -4%/month, slowly, slowly

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bunchesofoats

Hey @jozeff, curious how you're doing. Hope you're doing well!


2005-2009 18mg concerta on and off

2009-2013 ritalin and wellbutrin on and off; 2010 nortryptyline & amitriptyline for back pain following car accident

2014 April - lamictal for 2 weeks until breaking out in hives and going to ER, dr bullied me into taking it

~ st. john's wort, rhodiola, lots of other supplements tried

2016 Nov - began citalopram (4 months)

2017 March  - reached dose of 30mg citalopram (11 months)

2018 Feb - began taper, ~2.5mg/month, cutting tablets (3 months)

2018 May - 20mg, tried ~17.5mg but symptoms too strong (11 months)

2018 Nov - brief stint trying wellbutrin again, stopped within a couple months

2019 April - began ~5%/month taper from 20mg using dissolve in water and measure with syringe method

2020 January - stopped lorazepam; 0.5mg lorazepam average 3x/month since began citalopram; at most 3x/week

2020 October - 10.35mg, -4%/month, slowly, slowly

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jozeff

Hi guys,

 

 

Little update..... Continued my 1,25,% per week taper last months. Could that even be to fast??? Two months ago I was at 11 mg citalopram, now I'm at 10,60. I mean, that is quite a slow taper right? I did 4 weeks 1,25% in a row and today I feel horrible.

 

 

. I've been thinking about cutting carbs but I don't know if that is truly healthy. I mean, people have been eating oats, grains for thousands of years. It is of course true that ancient people are way less carbs than we do but the ate carbs for sure.

I try to eat a shake with kale, berries, oats, spices, olive oil, pees, and cottage cheese 4 or 5 times a week. 2 apples a day, some carrots, peanut butter and normal dinner. Plenty of water and a few cups of coffee. That should be healthy enough compared to a lot of people I think.

 

I cut out diet coke completely.

 

Do you guys sometimes wonder if it is wd or just us getting older, more worried?

 

I mean, taper is so slow. It really shouldn't cause that many problems. 1% per week is very slow for a lot of biological processes. That is about 25 times as slow as my doctor recommended. What if I'd listened to him. Would we be drug free and happy or would we be bed ridden for years?

 

I've been having some ok weeks but last two days I feel quite horrible. Muscle ache, feel like crying but can't, lot of tension in neck, back of head and feeling of doom. Just doom, no concrete danger, just feeling of unhappiness and dread.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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Leila

Hey @jozef, I’m sorry for your condition...I want to say to you that I’m near to you because I’m experimenting in my ADWD the same sensations and issues ...It’s horrible! I don’t know if it’s related to the same drug we took (citalopram)... 


July 2015: start citalopram 20 mg for big stress

After two year I start tapering (slow but without medical advice) and I suppose in a wrong way. First down to 10 mg, then 5 mg and 2 mg (liquid solution) and jump

At the end of January 2020: off citalopram (last dosage 2mg).

June 2020: adrenal crush. The beginning of the Hell on Earth

 

Current supplement: pill of saffron (30 mg) + 1 mg melatonin + vit. E,  EPA+DHA, magnesium bisglicinate, theanina.

Try to meditate/mindfulness, walk/run daily, CBT, acupuncture weekly (anxiety protocol) and massage.

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Leila

Hi @jozeff, I want to check...How is now your muscle tension? I hope you can find some relief🙏


July 2015: start citalopram 20 mg for big stress

After two year I start tapering (slow but without medical advice) and I suppose in a wrong way. First down to 10 mg, then 5 mg and 2 mg (liquid solution) and jump

At the end of January 2020: off citalopram (last dosage 2mg).

June 2020: adrenal crush. The beginning of the Hell on Earth

 

Current supplement: pill of saffron (30 mg) + 1 mg melatonin + vit. E,  EPA+DHA, magnesium bisglicinate, theanina.

Try to meditate/mindfulness, walk/run daily, CBT, acupuncture weekly (anxiety protocol) and massage.

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jozeff

Hey Leila,

 

 


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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Leila
18 hours ago, jozeff said:

Hey Leila,

 

 

Hey @jozeff! Maybe you lost your text while you were posting!🤔 


July 2015: start citalopram 20 mg for big stress

After two year I start tapering (slow but without medical advice) and I suppose in a wrong way. First down to 10 mg, then 5 mg and 2 mg (liquid solution) and jump

At the end of January 2020: off citalopram (last dosage 2mg).

June 2020: adrenal crush. The beginning of the Hell on Earth

 

Current supplement: pill of saffron (30 mg) + 1 mg melatonin + vit. E,  EPA+DHA, magnesium bisglicinate, theanina.

Try to meditate/mindfulness, walk/run daily, CBT, acupuncture weekly (anxiety protocol) and massage.

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jozeff

Haha, I lost a lot of text Leila!

 

Muscle tension has not been very well unfortunately. As long as I lie down or take hot bath everything is ok. Day at work however causes extreme fatigue in neck and shoulders.

 

A lot of tension tends to build up in my neck and shoulders. Never headache fortunately. This neck and shoulder stress makes me tired and irritable and ramps up my depressive symptoms quite a bit. Sometimes I wonder if it's depression or shoulder neck pain. What happened first? I really couldn't tell.

 

I tried to do regular exercises of work, apply heat 3 Times a Day to relax muscles and I look after my posture. Sometimes it's busy at work and I'm unconsciously stuck way to long in one posture.

Only thing that really helps is sleep.

 

How is you saffron going along?

I experimented with that stuff quite a bit and it helped me a lot in a particular period but didn't help a couple of months later. I used to take 25 mg per day. What's the working dose? They say it might interfere with citalopram....

 

Cheers and good luck!

 

Jozeff


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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Leila

Hey Jozeff🙂,

yes, I think daily posture doesn’t help with muscle tension. In my modest opinion, muscle tension needs also some aerobic exercise (like running) that can help to discharge...I found that inner tension (from thoughts or emotional stress) exacerbate this issue...so maybe it’s a vicious circle (depression/anxiety cause tensione and vice) and we need to break this for some relief. As you know, sometimes it’s only chemical WD and in this case we can’t do nothing, except accepting, if we can...

About saffron, I don’t know...My psychiatrist gave it when I stopped citalopram like maintenance therapy (30 mg daily)...I studied a lot medical papers and It doesn’t seem interacte with AD but sometimes help to increase antidepressant power. In some study AD and saffron were used in a combined manner...

By the way, I think  that it can contribute to raise up my mood and know are four months that I take it. I’m a little bit scared to take it off at this point because I don’t know if (like other natural supplements) can develope rebound effect... how long do you take it? Did you notice some side effect when you stop it?

I wish you a pleasant week!🙂


July 2015: start citalopram 20 mg for big stress

After two year I start tapering (slow but without medical advice) and I suppose in a wrong way. First down to 10 mg, then 5 mg and 2 mg (liquid solution) and jump

At the end of January 2020: off citalopram (last dosage 2mg).

June 2020: adrenal crush. The beginning of the Hell on Earth

 

Current supplement: pill of saffron (30 mg) + 1 mg melatonin + vit. E,  EPA+DHA, magnesium bisglicinate, theanina.

Try to meditate/mindfulness, walk/run daily, CBT, acupuncture weekly (anxiety protocol) and massage.

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jozeff

Thanks Leila,

 

I didn't notice a difference when quiting saffron.

 

As I mentioned before the first time I took saffron I noticed a significant ligt in depressed mood. After six weeks or so this effect stopped and eventually I stopped taking it.

 

The second time I took it I didn't notice any difference in mood unfortunately. I was tapering citalopram while taking citalopram so that is interfering with my experiences I guess.

 

Wish you a good week too.!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff


- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

START TAPER 29 apr 2019 @ 18 mg,    29th Jun 16.4 mg / 19th aug 15.4 mg / 25th Aug 15.2 mg / 30th sep 14.0 mg / 4th dec 13.1 mg2020 citalopram taper approx 1 % per week: 03rd Jan 12.75 mg / 28 Jan 12.29 mg / 18th Feb 11.83 mg, 25th Feb 11.68 mg hold../7th May 11.33 mg hold, 4th Aug 10.98 mg. Holding because of not feeling well.

 

 

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