jozeff: trying to come off of citalopram - a little help would be great

[Rosetta]

Hi, Jozeff.  Glad to see you are recovering from the operation and getting your sleep. -Rosetta

[jozeff]

Hi guys,

 

It's been 10 weeks since my operation. It's been going quite well. It took me 6 weeks to recover completely  from this surgery.

 

A couple of weeks ago I started having heart rhythm problems. Every 5 beats my ❤ skipped one and kept doing that for 5 days straight .  Very nasty.  I went to the doctor  and they made an ecg. A couple of days later I had heart rhythm monitor for 48 hours an not a single skipped beat was recorded....problem suddenly gone.

 

Last week I had stomach issues and constant nausea.  That is evil.... just feeling of throwing up days in a row. That went away also;)

 

Currently I'm doing a 1.8-2.0 % taper every week. This is according to brassmonkey but slightly different. I've reached 8 mg citalopram.  Started tapering at 18 mg a little over 2 years ago. What a ride that was and I hardly can imagine what a CT would have done like so many fellow sufferers  unfortunately did .

 

I still don't feel normal and haven't been for years. Anxiety some says but way less since I reduced caffeine intake.

 

Biggest problem for me is feeling just off. ... detached from real emotions, not enjoying Things that I should. I feel pretty normal parts of the day but also very depressed every day, especially when at home in the afternoon. This feeling comes and goes without any reason. The sense of dread covering my brain accompanied with a feeling of lack of oxygen and slight panic. That's the worst feeling and I have to deal with it every day.

 

The purpose of life seems to have left me and the satisfaction of little things like playing with the kids,  watching a movie just doesn't feel satisfying.  Always that voice saying: you are relaxing but it's not real! You should be miserable and that can happen any moment now.

 

I hope at a certain lower dose that the mist is lifted from my head one day and can fully enjoy life again.

 

Hope you are doing all really well!!

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

[bunchesofoats]

On 6/4/2021 at 2:01 AM, jozeff said:

Always that voice saying: you are relaxing but it's not real! You should be miserable and that can happen any moment now.

I have this as well!

 

It seems like you are managing your taper but that you are maybe having some level of constant symptoms. I don't think that will be forever for you, but glad you are going slowly. Also am happy your heart rhythm was ok. I have read about some medications causing changes, see this paper for example.

 

I'm wondering if during the hold weeks in the brassmonkey slide method you get to connect with a sense of satisfaction/relaxation at times. I know for me it's important to connect with those feelings at least once in a while or I lose hope that I can feel them again. That's a big part of why I've slowed down so much.

 

It's amazing you've managed to cut down so much on your caffeine consumption (and alcohol as well)! That's a huge accomplishment!

[jozeff]

Hi bunches,

 

Thanks for stopping by!

 

That's an interesting study you got there. I never ever had any issues with heart rate, pressure, skipping beats etc before taking citalopram.  It could be me getting older also. I'm turning 45 next week so I'm not as healthy as 20 years ago.

 

On 6/8/2021 at 1:59 AM, bunchesofoats said:

I'm wondering if during the hold weeks in the brassmonkey slide method you get to connect with a sense of satisfaction/relaxation at times. I know for me it's important to connect with those feelings at least once in a while or I lose hope that I can feel them again. That's a big part of why I've slowed down so much.

I don't use hold weeks and your vision sounds interesting.

Im doing a 1.8 % decrease evey week without holding weeks. This is roughly the same as 2.5% decrease 4 weeks in a row with 2 week hold.

 

Maybe the 2 week hold would be better but then again the slightly larger jump every week might give problems. I don't know.

 

10% every month and staying on that dose for 6 weeks would also give the same result but I'm not willing to try that. Too big a jump....

 

If I would tell my gp that I went from 10 mg to 9 mg he would probably  laugh and ask me why the heck I didn't go to 5 mg instead 🙃.

 

 

🙂INTERESTING EXPERIMENT......KEEP READING.......

 

My wife is trying to come off of  sertraline and she wanted to half her dose and jump off at some point. A couple of weeks ago she had enough of this taper thing and she wanted to CT. I convinced  her not to. She asked me 1.5 yeras ago to do the math for her and she blindly drinks the solution I prepare for her. The fact that I am a chemist might give her some assurance. 

She insisted that I vary the taper speed to see if she could notice any difference.

 

She tapers 3 % per week some weeks. Some weeks 5 %. A couple of times we did a 10% jump and twice we did a 25% jump. She didn't know what percentage we tapered each week..

We've kept a spreadsheet how she feels every day and we compared that to the taper speed and we didn't find any correlation whatsoever.

 

She went from 50 mg sertraline to 8 mg sertraline in fifteen months.

 

It could be that she:

- tapers easily without much trouble and could do a CT without any problems.

- would have placebo effect but now she doesn't because she doesn't know taper speed

- will suffer from our experiment in the near future because of build up protracted wd.

 

Anyway, my wife and I found this rather interesting and wanted to share this with you guys.

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jozeff]

Little update,

 

Had a rough day yesterday.  Very uneasy feeling.  Dreadful,  dark and hoping to make it to the end of the day.

 

This morning was also evil.  Tired as hell but not able to sleep. Now things are a bit better.

 

I was very confident about my taper but started having doubts about my journey so far. Just 1 day of trouble and I almost decided to updose a bit after 2 years of tapering.... I do know if it's the meds or just my personality  but it is astonishing how fast our minds can fool us.

 

Cheers and happy healing!

 

Jozeff

 

 

[PurplePaisley]

Hi, @jozeff. I have also had setbacks during my citalopram taper, and have had to persuade myself not to reinstate the dose that I was taking 4 months ago. I have to remember that my decision-making abilities are impaired by withdrawal.

 

I'm impressed that you are still able to do the math for drug dilutions. My career was in a field that required mathematical skills, but ever since two months after* my drop from 10 mg/day to 5 mg/day (too much, too fast), I can hardly do simple arithmetic.

 

Sending good thoughts your way.

 - PurplePaisley

 

* I felt fine until two months after my drop, then I started to have horrible withdrawal symptoms and signed up on this informative, helpful Web site.

[Rosetta]

How are you doing?

[jozeff]

Hi rosetta and purple paisley,

 

Thanks for stopping by!

 

I'm doing relatively well to be honest. Just spent two weeks in czech republic  and had a wonderful time with my family. Didn't taper during holiday. Made sure not to decrease dose 8 days before leaving and took same dose during my stay.

 

Had a lot of energy there . Swimming, hiking  etc.. at home I started running again after years of inactivity. Currently in week 2 of my schedule....wish me luck!

 

Hope you are doing all well!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[Rosetta]

Lovely news!  Enjoy.  It’s nice to see this. -Rosetta

[jutland86]

Hi jozeff

 

Just stopping bye to hear how things are going?

[SeekingAnswers]

On 8/10/2021 at 1:38 PM, jozeff said:

I'm doing relatively well to be honest. Just spent two weeks in czech republic  and had a wonderful time with my family.

This is wonderful to hear, thank you for posting it. Gives me hope for my son who recently tapered off Celexa and for myself after being off Lexapro since March.

[jozeff]

Thanks for stopping by guys,

I am still doing pretty ok, except during weekends.  I don't know if it is my diet, sleeping habit or lack of purpose but during my days off I just don't feel so well.

 

Came down to 6.3 mg citalopram yesterday.  Was on 10 mg in the end of March so I a pretty satisfied with my taper this year. I mean 40 % reduction in 5 months is pretty good right?

 

Some days I think  what the heck,  I jump to 4 mg and see what happens... I'm just too scared to do that.

 

Last few weeks my 2 year old started waking up at night so my 💤 hasn't been that good. 

 

I hope you are all doing well! 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

[jutland86]

That is indeed pretty good, Jozeff. Well done. 

 

I tend to feel more anxiety when I'm not doing anything, so I just try to keep busy. And then I also started to meditate again. That has helped me in the past, so I'm thinking it will again.

 

How are you tapering? 10 pct. in one go pr. month or a variation of the brassmonkey slide? 

 

And it's a good thing that you are too scared to drop from your current dose to 4 mg. That keeps you from doing it. If you are having succes with your current taper don't change it

[jozeff]

14 hours ago, jutland86 said:

How are you tapering? 10 pct. in one go pr. month or a variation of the brassmonkey slide? 

About 2 % per week. This is doable  and every couple of months I do a few weeks hold.

 

 

[Colonial]

 

On 9/2/2021 at 12:25 PM, jozeff said:

Came down to 6.3 mg citalopram yesterday. 

 

Hello! 

Please update your signature line with any other reductions since July 9th.

Was there any other drops between July 9th and this one?

 

Your modified Brass monkey slide up until July was very modest.

That being said, eventually there comes a time it is best to "hold" our dose and let our brains settle.

You may find this happening more often at the lower dosages.

 

Our brains find it taxing to always be in a state of adaptation.

Some periods of rest are needed.

It was very wise to hold before and during the vacation.

You may want to add some longer holds occasionally as well, especially if your having new symptoms.

 

Also, I would warn against "experimenting" with your wife with 25% drops and wildly different % drops all around. She is trusting you and if there is an accumulated crash down the road from too many strange drops, She may feel abused. 

 

And you will not know if it was the total percentage drop over time that was too much, or if her brain is just not responding well to being thrown out of its normal element with constantly changing percentage drops.  For example, you will not know if the total % drop split evenly over time would have been ok once a crash occurs if wildly varying % drops were made throughout. 

 

Our  brains do best with modest regular drops spaced out at intervals your brain becomes adjusted to, with some extended holds along the way. Anything wildly out side of that frame work can cause problems. 

 

Hope your enjoying the day!

 

[jozeff]

11 hours ago, Colonial said:

Also, I would warn against "experimenting" with your wife with 25% drops and wildly different % drops all around. She is trusting you and if there is an accumulated crash down the road from too many strange drops, She may feel abused. 

 

Well, we stopped the experiment when we reached lower sertraline dose.

She was very aware of this forum and my own struggle but she insisted on tapering very fast and trying different  methods. I spent a lot of time convincing her to take it slower. Since we reached 7 mg sertraline we do a 2.5% to 4% taper every week. She has been holding for 3 weeks now to let things settle.

 

It was by no means a guinea pig experiment. She was convinced 10% per week was too slow at 50 mg sertraline so we did it faster like millions of people do. I begged her not to jump of the stuff but to start a slow taper when reaching lower dose.

 

11 hours ago, Colonial said:

She is trusting you and if there is an accumulated crash down the road from too many strange drops, She may feel abused.

She trusts me for sure but she is also very stubborn and didn't even want to taper in the first place. She almost made the classical error by saying: I feel good now, I might as well stop taking this crazy medicine right away...

 

we agreed upon tapering her down for about a year and then try to stop taking sertraline.

 

11 hours ago, Colonial said:

Your modified Brass monkey slide up until July was very modest.

I still do a 2% per week taper but haven't updated my signature.  The maximum percentage I taper is 3 % per week. It probably takes another 3-4 years before I'm med free but if that's what it takes that's OK. I took 25 mg three years ago and I'm down to 6 mg right now which is pretty satisfying if you think about it.

 

I still think a healthy person should be able to quit this amount of drugs within a year but better safe than (very) sorry.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

 

Cheers

 

jozeff

[jozeff]

Hi guys,

 

Hope everyone is doing well!

 

Its been a while since I posted. The intervals are getting bigger...maybe that's a good thing. I'm currently at home with covid19. Fever and  very tired but nothing too bad. Let's hope it stays this way.

Currently  at 5.15 mg citalopram.  Started 2.5 years ago at 18 mg and what a ride it has been. I guess I'll need another 2.5 years at least to complete my taper. Entering the danger zone of receptor Occupancy  so better take it slow.

 

well that's it for now. The virus knocked me down so I'm going to sleep.

 

happy healing.

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

[PsychologicalSafe15]

@jozeff Your gassy symptoms almost gone ?? Are you no longer bloated ?
How long did it take to go away?
I am constantly burping and gassy. My stomach is constantly make gases.

[jozeff]

Help me out here, which and when gassy symptoms do you refer to?

I've had an operation earlier this year but had not much to do with gas/stomach. My memory is bad so I might have forgotten  some stuff

 

Cheers!

 

Jozeff

 

[jozeff]

Hi guys,

 

Hope everyone is doing fine!

 

I Have A Question for moderator of anyone really  who has Experience With the following.

 I have recovered from covid 19 last week. I've had fever for a couple of days and didn't feel too bad honestly. Blocked sinuses, tiredness and weakness were in my main symptoms.

 

  Since a couple of days I have had no fever But I'm still at home to recover a bit more. If I have become increasingly depressed  and have a certain fatigue that doesn't disappear after sleeping a lot.  If this worries me because I haven't been in such a bad shape since months. Could all this be covid related? Ate there other fellow sufferers who experienced this?

 

 I've had suicidal ideation and very negative thinking the last couple of days. Just a feeling of despair and giving up. No energy whatsoever  and we were in quarantine with the kids which was exhausting on itself. 

 

I've been having this fatigue that just doesn't go away. Like I just took a sleeping pill but cannot go to sleep. If I want to rest but the kids just won't let me, it's as simple as that. My youngest is awake every night and shouts for his parents and my eldest doesn't want to go to bed, wants to play games all the f..... time and makes a lot of trouble about it every evening. It's just so exhausting. My brain wants to shutdown but can't.

 

I haven't been tapering for a couple of weeks..

 

thanks for any advice!

 

cheers

 

Jozeff

[ChessieCat]

Hi Jozeff,

 

Many members find that their withdrawal symptoms can get worse when their body is stressed by things.  Even good stress can do this, for example going on welcomed holiday.

 

Your body has been and probably still is under a large amount of stress at this time fighting a virus and trying to recover.  Covid is NOT a minor sickness.  Even though you might feel that you are over it, I think that there might still be a lot of recovery happening on the inside of your body that you do not know about.

 

Q:  Have you been taking any prescription drugs or over the counter medicines?

 

Think about when you have the flu and how even after you have got over the worst of it you can feel physically weak and still need to rest and not be able to do as much as you used to for a little while afterwards.  Not necessarily sleeping but just taking it easy and not overdoing things.

[jozeff]

Thank you chessie, appreciate it 🙏.

 

I have not been taking drugs any other than tylenol a couple of times. Those pills never bothered me.

 

I are relatively healthy last 2 weeks and tried to sleep as much as possible. It's just that I'm in a narcotic state and want to cry but can't. Like there is something in my head, pressure behind my eyes and feeling of dread. Just evil.

When suffering from covid (fever) I felt much better than I do now without the fever. It's been 7 days of misery now and that is exhausting.  Fear that it stays this way etc ..

 

let's see how it goes.

 

Thanks for stopping by.

 

cheers

 

Jozeff

[jozeff]

Hi guys,

 

It's been 32 month since started tapering. Currently @ 4.5 mg citalopram and I started at 18 mg. What a ride is has been..

 

I've been reading a lot about water fasting recently and ended up being very interested in the matter. I had stomach issues a week ago and could not eat more than 800kcal for 4 days in a row. I must admit that my mental clarity was much better than during the holiday festivities when I had a lot of ice-cream and other carbs.

I did a one day 19 hour fast a couple of days ago and felt very alive and proud in some way...

 

I'm studying 3, 5 and 7 day water fasting. I heard a lot of great results about it but I guess there are not a lot of people who are also tapering ad at the same time I guess.

 

Is there anyone here who has had good results with intermittent fasting or water fasting?

 

Hope to hear from you guys.

 

Cheers!

 

Jozeff

[jozeff]

Hi guys,

 

Today I have decided that I (temporarily) will no longer  participate in SAD related stuff. The reasons for it being:

 

1. The responses in my topic are minimal. 20 messages in 1 year, at least half of them are my own. The energy and power to change has to come from within myself. SAD has changed from daily reading to once in a month taking a quick look. I've posted quite a lot of new insights and stuff that I'm working on and the responses to that are very sparse.

 

2. I've invested a lot of time in helping others, created sheets, calculated stuff, replied a couple of 100 times. The people I have helped seem to have disappeared somewhat. Some people never even  replied or thanked me for sending them sheets, links, long responses  etc.

 

I don't want to be harsh in any way. Some people may not have responded because they simply weren't able to. Everyone is struggling and has their own story.

 

I don't feel the energy at the moment to dive into the intro topic and scan for people who I'm able to help. It has become too intense for me and I feel I can no longer advise people the way I would like to.

 

I'd like to ask the moderators too NOT cancel my account, I'm just saying that I'm taking a break from it all. I will focus on my own family and my own journey and struggle.

 

For now I wish everyone all the best. It's been an honor helping you where possible. You have also been a tremendous help and a beacon of light in the past.

 

I hope to continue some day but for now this is the way it is.

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Jozeff,

 

Thank you for letting us know that your are taking a break from SA and for the support that you have provided. 

 

SA encourages members to return every now and again and update their Intro topic just so we know how you are doing and to help educate the medical community. 

 

And of course we hope that one day you will return and write your success story.

 

Take care.

 

 

 

 

[Believer]

Hi @jozeff

I want to thank you for all of your updates and encouraging posts to others and to let you know they make a difference even if people don’t always respond.

 

I echo CC and hope you will pop in from time to time to give us updates.

 

Take care,

Believer

[DutchMaddy]

Good luck to you Joseff. 
thanks for you time and efforts. 
 

Het ga je goed en vergeet niet je succes verhaal te schrijven wanneer je weer beter bent!🌹

 

DeepL translation:

 

Good luck and don't forget to write your success story when you are better again!

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by ChessieCat
added translation

[wantrelief]

Hi @jozeff:  I saw a post you made on another thread and wanted to congratulate you on your taper - you've made so much progress!  Have you felt any improvements as you've tapered down?  I hope so!  Good wishes to you, WR

[jozeff]

Hi guys!

Thank you wantrelief, dutchmaddy, believer and chessiecat.
Appreciate it!

Last update was May 1st and i thought i could share a little update.

My taper has been going steady but slow. Two weeks ago I had covid for 2nd time and that was pretty nasty. Tired as hell and couldn't sleep at all.

 

Things at work aren't going so well either and that ramps up my nervous system pretty badly. There are some vague plans to shrink the number of employees by about 25 percent and people are forming groups now and talking a lot about it.

I have a certain paranoia that tells me i could be one of the people they want to get rid of. Colleagues see each other privately and spend days together in weekends.  Im not that kind of person and want to make a good impression through hard work. That is not always enough sadly. People do each other a favour and stick together and make themselves indispensable.  

This has really had a very negative effect on my well-being.

 

 

Im currently on 2.65 mg citalopram and coming from 25 mg that is a small number. However, i still have 2 or 3 years ahead of tapering. Some days i just want to jump off but then common sense kicks in.

Some days are great, many days are ok-ish, many days are dreadful and some are absolutely awful (head pressure,  nausea,  suicidal ideation,  very agitated and just crawling out of my skin). Two months were pretty ok but last 2 weeks i had a lot of suicidal thoughts and very low self esteem.

Last 2 days are ok again....strange how that works.

 

Well, i hope you are all doing well and thanks again for stopping by.

Cheers

Jozeff

[wantrelief]

I am sorry you've had some recent stressors, @jozeff, particularly the work situation as it sounds like that has, understandably, hit you hard.  I also am sorry you have had to contend with some really challenging days with symptoms.  It is good to hear you've had some okay days though too. Hang in there, Jozeff.  You are doing an amazing job of getting through not only difficult life circumstances but tapering too. With much respect, WR

[RachelSusan]

@jozeff Hi Jozeff,  I don't remember if I ever introduced myself to you before.  In case I haven't, hello.  Congrats on your taper. Yes I know you have a ways to go but think of how far you have come.

 

I am sorry you have had your emotional ups and downs. It sounds difficult.  Especially the work situation.  It's hard to feel like an outsider and even worse to think you might loose your job. I hope for the best for you.

 

Thank you for all you have done on this site.  I am glad you came back to update us.

 

Warm wishes.

[jozeff]

Thank you @RachelSusan appreciate it.

As you can see I'm not visiting my own forum a lot. I check out the introduction page frequently though.  I wanted to help everybody in the beginning but I found out that's nearly impossible unless you spend a couple of hours daily.  Almost a full time job to read everything,  look up stuff etc.

 

I simply had enough of all the antidepressant related talk but after 3 months I decided to return here and take it easy. Just read things when I want it and not feeling guilty about not responding or forgetting to reply someone.

 

We are all here for a reason and the reason is not our great overview, accuracy and endless wisdom 😉

 

@RachelSusan you have made a tremendous journey with zoloft. Congratulations! You should be very proud!

 

Wish you all the best and thanks for stopping by.

 

Jozeff

 

[RachelSusan]

@jozeff Hi, thanks for the good wishes. I do understand, it can be all time consuming here. I think it's nice you came back, and yes take it easy. The last thing you need is pressure on yourself.

[jozeff]

So I did it! I ditched the diet coke once again...

 

I was drinking 2 liter daily and sometimes 3 liter, most of it in the evening. I tapered to zero last friday (5 days ago) and I fell asleep 3 out of 5 evenings on my couch lol Lack of caffeine makes me super sleepy.

 

I felt I had to do this because

 

1. I was super worried about all the sweeteners and their effect on.my depressed mood (possibly)

2. I kept watching tv until midnight because I just wasn't sleepy

3. All the acid in diet coke must have some sort of effect on my health....

 

I'm doing pretty ok now, I'm trying to get rid of coffee too in the near future

 

Hope you are all doing well!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

.

[DutchMaddy]

Good for you!!  I am a cola lover also. Now drink de light, without caffeine. Only one a day. Good luck on you’re taper!

[JackieDecides]

caffiene is not only a drug, it's a BIG drug at least in my life. I am always trying to cut down....or ramping back up again. doesn't help that everyone else seems to be drinking it all day, every day. the lines of people waiting at Dutch Bros or Starbucks even in the evening!