jozeff: trying to come off of citalopram - a little help would be great

[jozeff]

Thanks Gridley and Carmie!

 

Yes trying to help people is something I like but it shouldn't take up half of my evening with family of course

 

My father died of cancer, he was extremely healthy before.

 

My sister is very active, eats only fresh foods, never smoked 1 sigaret and drinks 5 glasses of wine a year. She has cancer now too. 

 

I know there are no guarantees. That's what literally every person tells me right now. People are so full of cliches. I Know that of course. It's just that I keep thinking about our little family together when we were kids.

 

Later on my parents divorced which had a huge impact on me and changed my life. I had a few relationships that ended and my father died. He was a great person and I miss him every day. Not being able to see him ever again is sometimes unbearable but most of the time just sad. 

 

Loosing someone you are close to is a life changing experience. Going to be a dad again is very special but it feels emptier because my father will never know. 

 

Last days have been ok but not great. Had flu like symptoms and low moods.

 

I hope everyone is fine and healing!!!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

[ChessieCat]

7 minutes ago, jozeff said:

 

I'm looking for a reliable forum where I can ask questions about diet and blood sugar/mood issues. 

 

 

The problem is that when I wake up I feel pretty ok. I have a small breakfast and go to work. After lunch I start feeling very lousy and a feeling of hopelessness enters. It feels like having a hot flush or something. It happens like 15 minutes after lunch when I haven't eaten in 4 hours or so. Like my blood sugar is way of or there is an insulin spike. I don't know what it is but it feels very nasty and is almost unbearable. It could be psychological because when I eat lunch I'm sitting and I am not distracted much.

 

After an hour or so this feeling subsides. 

 

I don't have this around diner and way less around breakfast.

 

I tend to eat a lot during weekends and try to fast somewhat during weekdays. I loose the weight I build up during weekends so my weight is pretty stable. Could it be that my insulin production is way of because of this altering behavior?

 

I also drink a lot of diet soda and aspartame which messes with my insulin. I only drink this in the evening.

 

Any thought or weblink would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks 

 

Jozeff

 

low-blood-sugar-and-symptoms-withdrawal-hypoglycemia

 

eating-as-an-activating-factor-increasing-anxiety-or-symptoms

 

Click on this link to a google search which brought up various diet topics on SA:  survivingantidepressants.org diet

 

artificial-sweeteners-phenylalanine-sorbitol-etc

 

And this from ncbi:  Possible neurologic effects of aspartame, a widely used food additive

 

feeling-better-green-smoothies

 

juicing

[jozeff]

Thanks chessiecat!

 

Appreciate it.

 

These links are very interesting. Do you have some more general links to food/nutrition forum not connected to survivingAD? 

 

Some general food forum where I can ask questions about diet/nutrition?

 

There are so many good links that I find it a bit overwhelming.

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

[jozeff]

Hi guys,

 

Any ideas? I'm looking for a good/diet forum website that is not necessarily linked to survivingAD.org.

 

I found many links but they are always very commercial.

Thanks in advance

 

 

Jozeff

[Leo1983]

We need the tyme diet mate. 

 

Its all guna take thyme. Lol. 

 

If you find a good 1 let me know. 

 

Hope ya well.

[powerback]

51 minutes ago, jozeff said:

Hi guys,

 

Any ideas? I'm looking for a good/diet forum website that is not necessarily linked to survivingAD.org.

 

I found many links but they are always very commercial.

Thanks in advance

 

 

Jozeff

google/youtube ,nutritionfacts.org ,this is a good one  for learning about food/nutrition .then theres the hard part ,witch is sticking to the lifestyle because it has to be a consistent change to notice any difference .

Take care . 

[Rosetta]

Hi Jozeff,

Thanks for your kind note this week.  

There are too many different diets and theories.  I think that eating fresh food, organic if you can, is the best.  That's really hard in WD, of course.  Maybe there's a website about fresh, whole food that easy to prepare.  If I find one I'll let you know.

Rosetta

[jozeff]

Thanks guys,

 

I have read Eckhart Tolle's book "the power of now" during the early 2000's.

Recently I've discovered a lot more about this author and I'm pretty happy with some of his deeper understandings. 

 

Especially about fear and depression. Our minds are often in the future (fear) or in the past (depressed) but rarely in the "now". 

 

I've been thinking about this a lot this week and it is absolutely incredible how many irrational thoughts pop up and how little I'm spending in the now...

 

If you're interested check it out or Google it if you hadn't already in the past.

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

[Carmie]

Hi Jozeff, 

 

Just checking in to see how you’re doing. What did you decide to do diet wise? Everyone needs to do what’s best for them, just make sure you get plenty of nutrition. Lots of greens in your diet. I love making coconut n berry smoothies too. I eat mainly fruit, veggies and some animal protein. I cut out grains, though I very occasionally have some when I’m out n about as I love sushi. I never eat gluten. 

 

Hope you’re doing okay💚

[jozeff]

Hi Carmie,!

 

Thanks for your kind words!

 

Well my diet wasn't really the best in the last weeks. I went to Disneyland and after that we had some days  off and Christmas..... I think I gained 2 or 3 kg of weight. 

 

I was pretty tired from eating Al the French fries, meat, chocolate.. however, now I'm used to that and this behavior feels more comfortable now unfortunately. Like it sedates my mind and feelings. 

 

I will return to veggies and smoothies in the new year, that's for sure. It takes a few weeks to get used to and to get clean so to speak. With that comes a lot of discomfort and doubt. Is always easy to snack and drink some coke. Something to look forward to..

 

The panic is worse while eating all those carbs. High heart rate and trouble getting to sleep.

 

I need to give up my six glasses of coke and 6 cups of coffee daily I guess. This doesn't seem like an awful lot to me but my environment really thinks this is abnormally much!

 

Hope you are a bit better Carrie!

 

Thanks for your message, appreciate it.

 

Jozeff

[jozeff]

Hi guys,. 

 

Today was a bad one. The morning was ok with a little depressed mood. I started finding this particular game I promised my son. This took me quite some time and when I finally had it working we were called by my wife to eat something.

 

I was in a pretty good mood. She started talking about this game that was too violent for our son which it actually was. I promised him so he ended up very disappointed. 

 

My wife suddenly started about me spending way too much time with screens/cellphone and we started arguing about this. I explained that it is a hobby for me and I admitted that I actually spend too much time watching YouTube etc. 

 

Then she started a discussion about my lack of household activities and that I only care for myself, which I don't but she was in a sh*tty mood. I felt attacked by this and after 20 minutes walked away and cursed and gave her the finger. This feeds her bad mood immensely and from then there is no way back. 

 

She walked the dog and came back in a very bad mood. I talked to my boy about this fight. My wife accuses me of indoctrinating our son which she often does in a fight. I tried to fix things which she didn't accept. I said we can not properly function as a family and we should stop this fight immediately. It was too late according to her because I cursed and gave her the finger ... Of course I said some uggly stuff and felt so powerless and desperate. I cannot handle these nasty discussions very well and I become aggressive because I just want it to end

 

She ignored me completely, even doesn't make eye contact because she just can't when she is angry. The rest of the day it went on with ignoring, evil looks etc. She went outrageous.once again and we cried. I really felt the inner power of wanting to do some agressive stuff.

 

The problem is that I felt this strange attraction to dying. Like some inner voice telling me to commit suicide. Just get it over with. Just be strong for one minute and my mind will be in piece forever. I think alot about suicide lately. My troubled mood, crippling depressed feelings and anxiety make me fantasize about death a lot recently. It seems to be getting harder to ignore these feelings. I cannot talk about this with my wife because she gets very angry and offers me to take me to the train herself. A few times she told me it would be better for everyone if I just died. This kind of response really makes me fantasize more about it. I would never laugh in someone's face who's in need

I just want to let her know that my suicidal feelings are real but this is a no-go area.

 

She thinks it's just threatening but it isn't. I might actually do this some day. If she keeps thinking so negatively about me I might come to a point of action. I'm just so tired of fighting in life. When I'm on a high building I'm counting the height and calculate the death rate. Every train passing makes me nervous because I get this picture of jumping in front of it in my head.

 

Do you guys recognize this despair? 

I. Took some Valium to calm down. Just want to ease my mind and this hostile environment is really not good for me.

 

I don't want to die. I just want to feel better

 

 

Jozeff

[Gridley]

I really think you need some in-person support regarding the suicide.  This would give you you someone to talk to.   I'm sorry that your wife is saying those things.  

[JackieDecides]

48 minutes ago, Gridley said:

I really think you need some in-person support regarding the suicide.

 

that really sounds like a good idea.

 

meanwhile, you can always call or chat  24/7 suicidepreventionhotline

[jozeff]

Hi guys, 

 

Thanks for your thoughts. 

 

I typed all this in great panic. I should have thought about it some more but I didn't. I still feel very unstable but I talked to my wife about it and things seem clearer now. She wanted to tell me she needs a bit more support since she is pregnant. She is very active and I am not the most active person in the world. Some tasks in the household I don't recognize or i just postpone them. She expects a bit more support now that she is pregnant. I thought I supported her quite a bit but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

I hope we can discuss all this in peace and we will work things out. I love her very much and that's the most important thing.

 

I'm not jumping in front of a train. It just felt like I could do it yesterday because I was so angry and upset.

 

Thanks 

 

Jozeff

 

 

[xyz]

19 hours ago, jozeff said:

 

Do you guys recognize this despair? 

I. Took some Valium to calm down. Just want to ease my mind and this hostile environment is really not good for me.

 

I don't want to die. I just want to feel better

 

 

Jozeff

 

i feel for you man.

yes, i recognize the despair, it is called rage.

my hubby is an adorable guy and i consider myself a reasonable woman, but that withdrawal business is something else.

 

sometimes i can be so angry over silly stuff that i just want to be taken in my sleep. then next day i wonder what the heck happened to me.

see, man, don't indulge in drama when in withdrawal, for your own good and the good of others around you.

don;t even let your brain go there, do something constructive with that energy  such as maybe help out with the chores more or brush up your resume. (cos ending it all to prove to someone that she is wrong is a waste, don;t chya think so?)

it is not easy for your wife as well, she is going through her hormonal changes being pregnant, i am sure she is super tired after work too.

 

don't let things escalate, nothing is worth of that. lay low, save your energy for more useful things.

good wish.

[jozeff]

Hi XYZ,

 

Thanks for your insight! This is indeed very true. Energy is needed for other things. My wife is a fantastic woman and I want to spend more time making her a bit happier.

 

Thanks again!

Best wishes!!

 

 

Jozeff

[powerback]

9 hours ago, jozeff said:

Hi guys, 

 

Thanks for your thoughts. 

 

I typed all this in great panic. I should have thought about it some more but I didn't. I still feel very unstable but I talked to my wife about it and things seem clearer now. She wanted to tell me she needs a bit more support since she is pregnant. She is very active and I am not the most active person in the world. Some tasks in the household I don't recognize or i just postpone them. She expects a bit more support now that she is pregnant. I thought I supported her quite a bit but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

I hope we can discuss all this in peace and we will work things out. I love her very much and that's the most important thing.

 

I'm not jumping in front of a train. It just felt like I could do it yesterday because I was so angry and upset.

 

Thanks 

 

Jozeff

 

 

I get you jozeff ,it gets so frustrating .sending you an empathic pat on the shoulder .

keep a watchful eye out for when it gets very bad ,today is one of these days for me .

We all understand on SA .

my heart goes out to you with a child on the way .keep learning to breathe and destress .

Take care . 

[powerback]

23 hours ago, jozeff said:

Then she started a discussion about my lack of household activities and that I only care for myself, which I don't but she was in a sh*tty mood. I felt attacked by this and after 20 minutes walked away and cursed and gave her the finger. This feeds her bad mood immensely and from then there is no way back. 

this scenario is a typical "pain body" echart tolle talks about it ,google it .

My horrendous mood today is visourol ,its like im replaced by the devil ,I say to my partner to ignore me  .we absorb our surroundings .

withdrawl is such a kicker and then add the mix    of your wife's hormones ,there's  bound to be an explosion .

 

 

[powerback]

23 hours ago, jozeff said:

Do you guys recognize this despair? 

I've a tear in my eye jozeff .we need to change the channel so to speak.stop talking about suicide to your wife ,take it from her point of view ,its stressful listening to it .always talk on your thread or text a suicide prevention number ,you need to release tension  .

actively work on your communication strategies ,I was obsessed with getting  my partner to understand ,I regret this ,she  simply  couldn't .

Get a journal and write down your frustrations .

if your bad and frustrated PM  me and vent ,I mite not read it for days but you wont necessarily have regret  of posting on your thread out of frustration ,not that you should feel bad .

Take care and happy new year ,you can be sure we deserve a better year .

[eymen23]

23 hours ago, jozeff said:

I cannot talk about this with my wife because she gets very angry and offers me to take me to the train herself. A few times she told me it would be better for everyone if I just died. This kind of response really makes me fantasize more about it. I would never laugh in someone's face who's in need.

 

Do you guys recognize this despair? 

 

 

I don't want to die. I just want to feel better

 

Jozeff,

 

I’m sorry your wife uses these kinds of responses. My Mum actually says things of a similar nature to me from time to time, when she is extremely stressed. No matter how maliciously your wife says this, I seriously doubt she means it. Not that this makes it ok. 

 

You already had some good advice in seeking out proper ‘on the ground’ support. 

 

I understand how you feel and the desperation. For various reasons, I have had serious suicidal thoughts several times in the last few years. In the moment they can seem extremely convincing. I wouldn’t call this a technique as such, but in those moments I would say to myself....’you have suffered for so long, why not just give it a bit more time? All the pain will end one day, so why not just wait and see’. Low and behold, somehow and someway the feelings would pass and sometimes even HOURS later, I would be surprised at how intense I felt those emotions. I certainly would not rely solely on this method if you require urgent help. 

 

Another piece of advice which goes along with the suggestion to get ‘on the ground’ support, is to perhaps not share certain symptoms or details with your wife. Or perhaps comment on withdrawal less often. It is very tempting to share our problems with those close to us, but if we do this too often, it can push people around us away. People can only process so much at a time without melting down. I would theorise that your wife is saying these kinds of comments in frustration as she doesn’t know how to help and is unable to further process this situation, which I suspect is very difficult for her. 

 

[JackieDecides]

14 hours ago, jozeff said:

I hope we can discuss all this in peace and we will work things out. I love her very much and that's the most important thing.

 

😍

[Tom37]

Sorry to hear things getting a bit rough with the wife.

 

This withdrawal process isn’t easy on relationships that’s for sure.

 

i know I have to make a conscious effort to focus on her and to not talk to much about what I’m going through. 

 

Its hard but I’m sure you can work together on it. She will just want you better im sure of it but it’s not easy for both of you.

[Carmie]

Hi Jozeff, 

 

I nearly fainted when you told me you drink six glasses of coke and six cups of coffee a day. 🤣 I don’t think that’s a good idea when you’re going through withdrawals. Not a good idea even if you’re not going through withdrawals.

 

It will ramp up your symptoms and your nervous system. It might be a good idea to get off caffeine. You would have to do it slowly though, otherwise you will get withdrawals from it. 

 

I hope things have have settled down at home for you. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

[jozeff]

Hi 

Carmie

Tom37

JackieDecides

eymen23

powerback

XYZ

 

 

 

Thanks for all your great and helpful feedback! I appreciate it immensely.

 

Things were great on new years eve and we had a lot of fun. Today a little bit messed up due to all the eating and going to sleep pretty late.

 

I wish you and everybody else a wonderful 2019. May you all heal and have a fantastic new year in good health.

 

 

cheers

Jozeff

[RusTW]

Hey buddy try to utilize the time to forget about the symptoms every morning I get up and help my girlfriend clean the house and do chores staying busy really helps.

 

[Altostrata]

And I'm sure your girlfriend likes that, too, @RusTW !!

[jozeff]

 That's some good advice rusTW, she's going to like that. It's not that I'm super lazy but I work full-time and she about half of that so she tends to do a lot more household stuff. Now she's pregnant I'll have to find more energy to contribute to that. She a great girl and I'm super spoiled by her.

 

I never touched the washing machine, she does groceries, I'm having a nice meal 3 minutes after coming home, she does financial  stuff and taxes, she had our attic rebuilt, and she thinks of every appointment and I mean every including mine....no wonder she is tired sometimes..

 

She is beyond attractive and super smart also

 

Enough reasons to brace myself and fight my symptoms!

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

jozeff, the next time you post, I hope to see that you're helping your partner around the house!

[RusTW]

22 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

And I'm sure your girlfriend likes that, too, @RusTW !!

Yes keeping her happy is a good distraction and goal. makes me feel better also.

[RusTW]

12 minutes ago, jozeff said:

 That's some good advice rusTW, she's going to like that. It's not that I'm super lazy but I work full-time and she about half of that so she tends to do a lot more household stuff. Now she's pregnant I'll have to find more energy to contribute to that. She a great girl and I'm super spoiled by her.

 

I never touched the washing machine, she does groceries, I'm having a nice meal 3 minutes after coming home, she does financial  stuff and taxes, she had our attic rebuilt, and she thinks of every appointment and I mean every including mine....no wonder she is tired sometimes..

 

She is beyond attractive and super smart also

 

Enough reasons to brace myself and fight my symptoms!

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

Yull be ok.take this as a challenge to better yourself.Seems like you have a good one.love her as much as possible. Love and caring helps us heal and feel better.Your a good guy.

Russ

[ChessieCat]

On 12/29/2018 at 6:40 AM, jozeff said:

I need to give up my six glasses of coke and 6 cups of coffee daily I guess.

 

Because you are ingesting a lot of caffeine it would be a good idea to reduce gradually.  If you reduce by 1 glass/cup for a few days and then reduce by another on for a few days.  That would help to reduce the caffeine and do it more gently.

 

 

[xyz]

hi Jozeff

she is gold. treat her well, she deserves it.

when i have some anger (and it has been my constant companion during my lex taper), i go for a run, clean the house and make action plan. it helps a lot.

you gonna be fine. happy new year!

 

[jozeff]

Thanks for your advice guys!

 

I'll try to decrease my caffeine intake and I will be thankful for the Lovely wife I have😉😉.

 

Last few days have been ok, just some anxiety and almost panic attacks especially around noon, after a big meal and just when I want to sleep in the evening. Very uncomfortable because my heart beats way too fast and that ramps up my panicking.

 

Have a nice weekend you all!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[jozeff]

Hi you all, 

 

A little update here.

 

I had some ok days without too many problems but the last couple of days were not the best. I had a panicky feeling, high heart rate now and then and a very unpleasant sensation starting between my shoulders and creeping up my neck. Kind of nervousness that ends as a dreadful feeling in my forehead. 

 

I started eating healthy again 8 days ago after binging for a month so that could be contributing to my anxiety.

 

I still feel very out of sync and worrying about a lot of things. Some moments I feel depressed and heavy but that easily turns into a kind of mania and I start making jokes, screaming strange words, joking with my son. An hour later I crash and need silence and calmness.

 

After 5 months I still don't feel stable on my 18 mg citalopram. I updosed to this dose in August after tapering too fast.

 

Could it be that this dose just isn't for me? I mean that this dose doesn't match my needs and I will never stabilize.

 

I really would like to start a slow taper, like 3% per month. I just don't believe I will stabilize ever. Why not after 5 months? It's not that I CT, I just tapered a bit too fast starting in April 2018.

 

What should I do? Start this very slow taper (6 years to zero...) or continue taking this stuff?

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

[JackieDecides]

On 1/14/2019 at 12:37 PM, jozeff said:

I started eating healthy again 8 days ago after binging for a month so that could be contributing to my anxiety.

 

what have you been eating for a month? I have binge eating disorder so when people talk about binging I take it literally. not sure what you mean by it, however. 

 

 

On 1/14/2019 at 12:37 PM, jozeff said:

After 5 months I still don't feel stable on my 18 mg citalopram

 

I'm so sorry, I hope someone else has some advice for you. ☹️

[jozeff]

Thanks Jackie,

 

Binge eating for me is eating until I'm completely full and literally can't take no more. Especially in the evening. I drink 2 liter of alcohol free beer, eat like 200 g potato chips, sweets, chocolate..... On normal days I get about 2300 Kcal but on binging day( Saturday) I probably double that. In December I had binging time every evening. I gained 3 kg and last week I suddenly changed my diet again to 2000 Kcal, smoothies, veggies etc.

 

I suspect it has something to to with insulin production. That my body continues to produce too much insul for days after binging. Just guessing..

 

Have a nice day!!

 

Jozeff