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Hyperbaric oxygen treatment

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Evss

That totally makes sense now. Well, I’m glad to hear it. Sleep is so precious. :)

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Brussellsprout

Sorry, I'm just now seeing this response.  SOOO - what I've discovered is that when I do the hyperbaric therapy (soft chamber), I feel better UNTIL I skip a day and then, it sends me into worse w/d symptoms.  My theory is that the chamber is making the smaller amount of medication work better (there are studies showing that the use of Prozac plus hyperbaric therapy had a stronger effect on depression than either the drug or hyperbaric alone) BUT when you don't use the chamber, it's basically like dropping down the medication dosage.  Just a theory but it's what I've observed.  Luckily I have a chamber in my house so I could use it daily, but honestly, it's an hour of time that's difficult to find sometimes.  End result- yes it helps (soft chamber- I think the hard chamber would make things worse) BUT if you're still withdrawing from the medication, I think you'd have to do it every single day to prevent an up/down effect of the medication on the brain.

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Martina23

I think I couldnt imagine to give 800 EUR for any treatment. I guess going on the fresh air for a few hours a day must have the same effect as hyperbaric chamber and it is for free. (But I am no expert, naturally :-))

 

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Peachy

@Martina23

has your OCD started to go away, or do you still have it?

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Peachy

@Brussellsprout

How are you doing with the HBOT tank? Do you feel it was a good investment in your recovery? Do you mind sharing which tank you purchased? I was thinking about going to the pay/per visit ones, but I'm still on 5mg of my pill...

thoughts?

Thanks!

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Martina23
12 minutes ago, Peachy said:

@Martina23

has your OCD started to go away, or do you still have it?

I have, such a pity... But only sometimes. Not always anymore:-)

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Brussellsprout
4 hours ago, Peachy said:

@Brussellsprout

How are you doing with the HBOT tank? Do you feel it was a good investment in your recovery? Do you mind sharing which tank you purchased? I was thinking about going to the pay/per visit ones, but I'm still on 5mg of my pill...

thoughts?

Thanks!

HI peachy. I am still holding off on using the the chamber until I am at least close to fully withdrawn. i still have 2.5 mg of pristiq to go and I plan to drop over the next 6 months (about 10 months of withdrawing after 2 months of use). I purchased a Newtowne 27” tube and 10L oxygen concentrator for $3700 US. I found that at a cost of 100 per “dive” and me needing at least 40 dives, it was cheaper to purchase. Plus I could use it again later. I bought mine for a concussion though. Before meds this time around. 

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Altostrata

Just wanted to note: If any kind of treatment makes you feel worse, it's probably not good for your sensitive nervous system.

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Peachy
9 hours ago, Martina23 said:

I have, such a pity... But only sometimes. Not always anymore:-)

I'm sorry to hear that. Would you say it's a lot better and more manageable now? 

The same happened to me years ago, I didn't know what happened, so I ended up going on more and more meds. Thats why I'm in the mess I'm in now. 

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Martina23
1 hour ago, Peachy said:

I'm sorry to hear that. Would you say it's a lot better and more manageable now? 

The same happened to me years ago, I didn't know what happened, so I ended up going on more and more meds. Thats why I'm in the mess I'm in now. 

It is a lot better but it hasnt gone away completely. I wished it would but it stayed me a bit this negative background in the head 

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JanCarol

I just found an ad in a - VERY WOO - magazine that a New Zealand now offers portable home oxygen for anyone.

 

The add states "Do not wait until you gist sick!"  (scare tactics).

 

https://droxygen.co.nz/the-design/

 

Runs on oxygen "powders" - ?

 

Used in the beauty industry (there's a lot of woo there, for sure)...

 

Woo woo!


But I guess - if I really wanted to oxygenate myself, I could now.

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Iatrogenesis
1 hour ago, JanCarol said:

I just found an ad in a - VERY WOO - magazine that a New Zealand now offers portable home oxygen for anyone.

 

The add states "Do not wait until you gist sick!"  (scare tactics).

 

https://droxygen.co.nz/the-design/

 

Runs on oxygen "powders" - ?

 

Used in the beauty industry (there's a lot of woo there, for sure)...

 

Woo woo!


But I guess - if I really wanted to oxygenate myself, I could now.

 

Yes, selling fresh air is a fledgling industry, too. BUT! You can get the Hell out of the city too, ha ha (there's probably a bit more fresh air over there). You MIGHT need some dough, though. That's one of the best things one can do for their health (aside from quitting psychiatric drugs ;)).

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PapayaShake

I don’t know if this is the right thread to discuss this, I tried to look for discussions about liquid oxygen but couldn’t find any.

 

Has anyone tried it or is there any thread about it? To me it has been very helpful the only thing is I started taking it before starting the antidepressants. I had insomnia for over 10 years in different degrees, the last couple of years before starting to take the liquid oxygen, I used to lie in bed from 1-3 sometimes 4 hours before I could fall asleep and then woke up early and felt tired through the whole day. I tried melatonin, hot and cold baths, different relaxing teas and natural remedies, valerian root and noting worked.

I also had bad fatigue, I was not able to function properly during the day and had to rest all day some days.

All This improved around a 90% after taking the liquid oxygen and I have been taking it ever since (around 2014-2013) Since then I have been able to fall sleep in less than 30 minutes, and have never felt as fatigued as I used to feel, it used to interfere with my daily activities. 

 

During WD my sleep quality has been a bit worse but nothing compared to what I used to go through, I always get to fall asleep as I say within 30 minutes the most.

 

Now, I Don’t know how this will react with the tapper and WD experience for others since I Started taking it before even taking Ads and my brain was already used to it, and I know that taking other supplements apart from fish oil and magnesium is not recommended here and might have a bad reaction. An also even when I started it I had to do it gradually or it would cause dizziness (this is without AD or withdrawal)

But I did suffer from very bad insomnia, fatigue and very bad mental fog prior to antidepressants and liquid oxygen helped a lot and improved my quality of life greatly.

 

I don’t know if this might help someone or if this has been discussed before

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brassmonkey

Hi Papayashake--  would you please clarify what you are talking about.  The only "liquid oxygen" I know about is cryogenically  cooled gas that is too cold to possibly be taken as a medication.

 

Brassmonkey

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PapayaShake

Hi brassmonkey, 

 

It is s a suplement, stabilized oxygen. If you type liquid oxygen on amazon you can find different brands. Some have added vitamins but I take one that is just the oxygen.

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JanCarol

I'm with Brass - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_oxygen says:  

Quote

Liquid oxygen is a common cryogenic liquid oxidizer propellant for spacecraft rocket applications, usually in combination with liquid hydrogen, kerosene or methane.. 

 

with the first review on Amazon reflecting what I was thinking:

https://www.amazon.com/Stabilized-Premium-Concentrated-Vitamin-Supplement/dp/B004IJHHL4/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1534427035&sr=8-3&keywords=liquid+oxygen

 

Quote

Please, I beg of you, save your money and do not buy this. This is the 21st century of snake oil that is playing on the fad of oxygen in everything in the health community. But don't take my word for it. Let me explain why this is a scam.

The packaging advertises that it is "diatomic oxygen stabilized in water." At the simplest level, this just means it is pure oxygen dissolved in water. Assuming that this is strictly distilled water, and optimal conditions of storage (let's say 25 celcius as a nice number). At this temperature, only 40mg per liter of water is present in the "solution" that you are buying in this bottle. Given the fact that there is 4 fl oz in the bottle, and there are 118 ml in 4 fl oz, this gives us an amount of oxygen in the bottle of roughly 4.72 mg of pure oxygen in this 20 dollar bottle of "solution".

Using the ideal gas law (PV=nRT), this gives (.2 * V ) = (.40 g / (32 amu [molecular weight of diatomic oxygen]) * 0.08206 * (273+25), this gives a total volume of oxygen contained in 1.52 liters of air. Given that the average tidal volume (volume of air consumed at rest) is around .5 L, this means that roughly three breaths would be needed at rest in order to make up for all of the oxygen that is contained in this bottle.

This means that in the time of reading this review, assuming that your breathing rate was around 20 bpm, you would have consumed roughly seven times more oxygen than what is contained in this 20 dollar bottle in one minute. This in turn means that you are changing the equivalent of 120 dollars for the equivalent of one minute of resting breathing worth of air.

I know this falls under the category of free market capitalism, but amazon should really remove these items as fraud. Considering that pure O2 inhalers for roughly 80L of pure O2 are available for 12 dollars, please buy those if you are trying to buy oxygen. Remember though, oxygen has not been shown to have any benefits in high intakes, and can actually issues as oxygen toxicity is an issue, although not at these relatively low doses. So whatever you do, please don't buy this product. It is literally just water unless they engineered some polymer structure to encapsulate oxygen, which is obvious not mentioned.

Source: standard values were taken from first results on google, math taken from intro to chemistry class, other knowledge taken from my background in the medical field. I know this isn't proper citations, but for an amazon review, this should be good enough. If you wish to learn the chemistry and check my math, by all means do so, but I don't think for most this will be necessary.

Reviewer was named fishwithadeagle

 

Even more woo than what I was talking about.

 

If it makes you feel better, it does.

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composter

Hi Brussellsprout,

 

I'm very intrigued by your experience w the HBOT chamber. In my case, I did two weeks of HBOT treatment while I started my first (unsuccessful) taper from my drug, without realizing that this could potentially throw off my tapering.

 

Started on 10 mg Amitriptyline for post-concussive headaches, then dropped to 5 mg once I felt I no longer needed the drug, during which I had the two weeks of HBOT. I was separately pursuing HBOT for further healing from concussion. Two weeks after that, I had my first withdrawal symptom, which was a sensation of my head being very cold such that I always wear hats and earmuffs (and continues to this day, 3 months later). Without considering withdrawal, I continued to taper to 2.5 mg which led to a horrific episode and multiple ER visits before we connected the dots and I reinstated.

 

What I wish to know is, how much of a factor was HBOT in perhaps worsening my withdrawal prognosis? The way I think about it, HBOT essentially "speeds up time" in allowing for rapid healing of wounds and the entire body. Therefore is it possible that the two weeks of HBOT equated to many more months/years of the drug in my system?

 

I am trying to stabilize on a reinstated dose (now 12.5 mg) but I'm still having many issues. Brain zaps, tachycardia. I desperately do not want to increase any higher so I will try my best to wait it out. What would your advice be to me? And further insight from your HBOT experience? Was it harder to stabilize on a low dose after trying HBOT?

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Brussellsprout

 Hi. Sorry but I don’t come back here often and I don’t receive notifications.  The hbot only set me back a tiny bit While using it. I was only using mild hyperbaric oxygen therapy which is the low pressure one though. I’ve never used the full hyperbaric oxygen therapy. To tell you the truth, I haven’t used it in a few months and don’t plan to until I’m completely off the medication. I wouldn’t think your brain would mold around it that quickly and I sure can’t imagine it’ll set back that long  as I know several people with concussions that have used it and the effects tend to wear off pretty quickly if you don’t continue to use it again. So I would assume the same would happened to you while taking meds. But I’m not sure of course. Just an extrapolation. 

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composter

Ok thank you. I do appreciate hearing your experience. Glad to know that you don't think it set you back too far. Same here, I was doing mild HBOT. I'm going to hold off on doing any sort of HBOT as well. Don't want to throw any other variables into the mix. Stay well!

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Superwoman

What about an oxygen bar.  That would be much less expensive I am sure.  Has anyone tried this?  

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Armorall

So, I talked to the nurse at Dr. Harch's office in New Orleans. If you don't know, Dr. Harch wrote a book on HBOT, he has been practicing the longest out of any physician= for 34 years. 

He is also the doctor that Ann Blake Tracy references and says that someone who cold-turkeyed Paxil after being on 120mg (twice the optimum dose) for 6 years, went and had amazing results.

I've called and emailed Ann Blake Tracy to inquire about what she wrote, but she has not contacted me back. 

Anyway, so in case you guys are wondering, here is all the information I gathered from the phonecall:

1. I asked if he has treated people going through ssri/snri/AP withdrawal. The nurse (his wife) said that she couldn't remember everyone he has treated, but was sure he had. She knew he had treated people with streetdrug brain injury and benzos. I told her that's a different game.

2. I'm supposed to submit a page-long history medical history to them- how was my birth, recreational drugs, etc etc. leading up until now.  Following that, he will consult with me for a fee of $450 for a half hour to see if I'm a good candidate. 

3. I mentioned that if he hadn't helped anyone with ssri/snri/AP withdrawal specifically, I would have no interest. Is it really going to cost me $450 to find this part out first? I'm supposed to call her tomorrow and perhaps I can just find out then. 

4. The way that Harch works the HBOT is by having you in a pressure chamber, then watching over a QEEG how your brain is being affected. He will adjust the dose according to what he sees throughout the treatment process. This seems different to me than the places I've looked into in Chicago, where there's a set price and pressure (I think). 

5. The procedure would run for two months and would cost $10,000 ($250 per session). Also there's a doctor's fee of $1,000. If you'd like to also watch your brain on the QEEG, it is $750.  I know in Chicago, the sessions are $150 each, or $125 if you book 40 sessions. 

 

So that's it. In all likeliness, I will not go through with it, but thought I would relay the information here. I see that the treatment has set back people tapering on here. I am not tapering, but am also concerned about what other people pointed out- if this is a process that speeds things up, that kind of goes against the law of effective withdrawal: slow healing. I definitely don't want to get worse.

But, if Harch can provide sources that I can possibly speak directly to that have done HBOT with success (that of course were in psych drug WD) then I'd keep seeking out answers. Since he adjusts the pressure according the QEEG (and who knows what that actually shows) I'm wondering if it would be more like what Brussellsprout had, or if you can request mild HBOT. 

 

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HopeforHealing

Hi @Armorall, I'd love to hear more about this and what you find out from Dr. Harch.  I've considered HBOT as well, but it's certainly not cheap.  The doctor I consulted with has the hard HBOT chamber and suggested I get SPECT scans first to get baseline imaging.  I know SA doesn't promote SPECT or other brain imaging for withdrawal, but I must admit, I am curious to see what my brain looks like.

 

I am not tapering either (I did a fast taper/cold turkey) and have been off all drugs for a little over a year.  I've been on both bupropion and abilify like you.  What got you interested in HBOT?

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Armorall

@HopeforHealing I posted earlier about the possibility of oxygen tanks helping us because I saw that it was the treatment for people with Carbon monoxide poisoning, and their symptoms are similar. 

Petunia sent me the hyperbaric thread. I'm interested in healing, so I'm investigating it. I'm talking to Harch's wife tonight, so I'll come back with more info specifically about SSRI victims that they have seen. Cheers. 

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Armorall

I haven't reached Mrs. Harch yet, but she did leave this message:

Dr. Harch remembers treating 2 patients for SSRI withdrawal. One had visual snow. There were others that he treated for SSRI WD but that was their secondary need, he didn't state what their first need was. 

 

He knows that the oxygen works on the excitatory neurotransmitters (interesting, I looked it up, had no idea that dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline fall into that category) 

It also impacts inflammation, stress hormones, and andrenaline released during detoxification. Not sure about that last part, I wonder if Dr. Harch works off of the streetdrug model when thinking about SSRI withdrawal. 

Anyway, I'll report back with more info when I get it. I'm going to ask about speaking with prior patients, how payment works if you don't do the whole 40 sessions, etc etc. 

I'm going to buy his book on HBOT.  Or maybe I should get a different book on it. Or both. It'd be a huge investment to go to New Orleans and do it, so I guess, both books. 

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Armorall

Ann Blake Tracy wrote me back. She said it was over a decade ago that she sent the man who CTd 120mg of Paxil to Dr. Harch. I haven't gotten a hold of Mrs. Harch yet, but I'm going to ask if it's possible to find out how he's doing now along with other patients.

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HopeforHealing

Hi @Armorall, did you ever get in touch with Mrs. Harch?

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Armorall

Hi @HopeforHealing I did! Juliet said that all the SSRI patients generally had a "good response" to the treatment. What I asked for was specific testimonies from SSRI patients about their experience: how did it help, did they see lasting results. 

Juliet said that she could not give any information like that as it violates HIPAA. I mentioned that people who go through WD have such a rough time, I would only assume that they would be willing to give that kind of information to help the rest of us. She said that the only testimonies they have are ones that are volunteered. I asked if any of those volunteered were SSRI patients, but they were not. 

I told her it'd be really hard for me to pay $10,000 without at least having some testimonials around SSRI patients. She mentioned that everyone is different, and I believe that, too, but I mentioned to her that everything is risky to WD patients, even taking B12 and other seemingly harmless things can harm us, so without any examples of success, it's a hard bargain to go stay in New Orleans and pay $10,000 for treatment. Juliet is VERY nice and talked at length with me the first time about my situation. After that, to go in depth requires a $450 talking fee with the actual doctor. You are to provide a one page medical history beforehand for his review before you consult with him. 

 

Ann Blake Tracy did get back to me. She said that the person she sent him was over a decade ago and was no longer in touch with him (someone who cold-turkeyed 120 mg of Paxil- twice the maximum dosage after 6 years and supposedly got good results). I asked about this patient with the Harches but they of course can't release any information on that. 

 

So, that's it. Sounded like too much money for too little evidence that it would work- also the risk of it making things worse always looms in the background. 

I've been making huge strides in the last month with my own healing, so I'm hoping I can just get to 100% on my own!

Take care and love and healing to you. 

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HopeforHealing

Hi @Armorall, thank you so much for your response!  I'm guessing Juliet is Mrs. Harch?  It's frustrating not to be able to get more specific info on outcomes.  I know of a girl in a facebook group I'm a part of who has had improvements with HBOT from Cymbalta withdrawal, but she also apparently had evidence of TBI.    

 

What about the possibility of seeing a local doctor who offers HBOT and just starting with a few sessions?  

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Armorall

@HopeforHealing yes Juliet is Ma. Harch sorry for not clarifying. Local doctors are half the cost so it'd be a good thing. The thing is, I looked into Harch because they really seemed to know what they are doing and have had experience with WD patients. They have a monitor that can adjust pressure according to what they are seeing. Going local means getting a set amount of pressure that is not adjustai, and no experience with SSRi patients. Also, as you know, what WD folks can't spare a lot of times is experimentation or else we'd be trying a whole bunch of stuff- but the risk of having adverse effects have to be weighed on anything from vitamins to stuff like this!

Did the person who got HBOT say that it helped specifically with her WD symptoms or just TBI? Maybe she can't distinguish from the two, dunno.

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HopeforHealing

@Armorall, I didn't speak with her directly, just read about her story via a gofundme that she has: https://www.gofundme.com/f/sarah039s-brain-is-healing.  Apparently she's not sure if the brain changes that showed up on her MRI are due to head trauma or medication, but HBOT has helped her overall.  She's had 92 treatments so far!

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Armorall

@HopeforHealing Ok thanks for the information! I read it, that's a good story. I am hazy as to how she got the brain injuries? Is it from actual physical impact, or did she get them from psychiatric drug use? Anyway, that sounds hopeful, perhaps I'll keep following her story and see how the HBOT progresses. Thanks!

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HopeforHealing

You're so welcome, @Armorall!  It seems she had some physical trauma in addition to psychiatric drug injury, but her MRI couldn't distinguish what caused the damage showing up on her imaging.  

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Galmond

Hope it's ok to jump in here. I'm very fascinated by this hyperbaric treatment. I read about a person on this site some time back that tried it. I think she bought her own tank. I can't seem to find the thread though. If anyone has any more information on this topic im all ears.

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