Theaddictionfairy22: Reinstated a benzo after 19 months

[Theaddictionfairy22]

I reinstated to 1.5 mg klonopin 16 days ago is it possible to stabalize. The klonopin makes me sick. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Shep
added username to title

[Theaddictionfairy22]

I was doing great and at 16 month became bedridden and reinstated klonopin at 19 months and it's not going well. 

[Shep]

Hi, Addictionfairy.

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

Please let us know a bit more about yourself and what drugs you are taking. Are you on any other drugs besides Klonopin? 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

• Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Please use this thread to document your withdrawal and to ask plenty of questions. As you provide more information, we will be able to advise you with what steps to take next. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

Started geodon 11 years ago for OCD insomnia. In 2015 started day dose but it made me to sleepy so tapered updosed tapered updosed in march of 2016 started xanax for taper helped a lot then hit tolerance after six weeks then crossed to klonopin for 7 more months and was just scared reading withdrawal stories so did a 5 day detox. Acute lasted three days followed windows and waves but was very functional for the most part. At 16 months was in a wave and spent 2 hours in a nail salon. Right after that went into a wave that left me bedridden with over 100 symptoms leading to near losing consciousness and control of my bladder couldn't hold head up. 2 days in hospital 2 er visits by ambulance and two er visits by walk in. Last visit by squad dr have me Ativan and I walked out of the er almost normal. Started klonopin 17 days ago and while most symptoms are gone the meds make me very nauseous and after three hours of taking it I start to feel bad again. Every time I dose I get a different reaction. Over relaxed. Drunk. Tired. Weak. Shaky. Severe malaise with nausea and so on. I'm still on 58mg of geodon. I'm desperate. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

How did it go did you stabalize if so how long? 

[Betsy]

Hi

 

Reinstating in no guarantee it will work out well. It can or cannot. I would not rule out the massive amounts of chemicals used at nail salons helped. Likely if your CNS is sensitive they might have been harmful. I’m not sure if you are on both Ativan and Klonopin. Taking two benzos is Ill advised, in my opinion. Some can stabilize on a benzo after reinstatement. Others cannot. If they are making you sick like you mentioned, they might not. If it were me I would do my best to try and do a taper that makes things less miserable. But in some cases the only way is through the process. Also please make sure you take the same doses at the same time every day. Bouncing around can make things much worse. I know once I am off I will never go back on this nightmare train.

 

good luck,

 

 

betsy

Edited July 30, 2018 by Betsy
Addition

[Theaddictionfairy22]

Thank you so much I'm just taking klonopin. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

I've been told that so many times. I'm wanting to hear from people who have actually reinstated and how it went. 

[Betsy]

I reinstated after a cold turkey off a very high dose and it didn’t work. It made things much worse for me. I stayed off for three years but couldn’t handle the symptoms. I was in misery getting off my klonopin.

 

betsy

[Theaddictionfairy22]

I'm no where near as bad as I was so it's deffinetly helped but I don't know how long it takes to stabalize if your going to. 

[xyz]

i CT benzos (the last one was xanax)- the real deep suffering started only after 8 months off.

i had akitasia, i heard song in my head, didn't sleep for a week.

got on mirtzapine which gave me Tinnitus and sent me in a spiral of death.

re-instated to valium at the hospital, since i was suicidal, they put me on lexapro.

 

it took me 4 months for the akitasia to go away and a year to feel 70%.

tapering the second time is 100x worse.

for the last 3 months i was only able to reduce from 0.95 to 0.88mg of valium.

i hope you will have an easier time, if not, just take it slow.

the positive side of this (if there is) is that i have developed coping skills this second time around to get off it slowly that i haven;t the first time.

 

at 2 years, i am feeling pretty good.

[Shep]

On 7/28/2018 at 8:56 PM, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

Started geodon 11 years ago for OCD insomnia. In 2015 started day dose but it made me to sleepy so tapered updosed tapered updosed in march of 2016

 

On 7/28/2018 at 8:56 PM, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

I'm still on 58mg of geodon.

 

Hi, Addictionfairy. Thanks for the additional information. Sorry for the delay in responding, as I missed your reply over the weekend. 

 

What dose of Geodon did you start out on? What is your taper rate and when was your last reduction? 

 

 

On 7/28/2018 at 8:56 PM, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

At 16 months was in a wave and spent 2 hours in a nail salon. Right after that went into a wave that left me bedridden with over 100 symptoms leading to near losing consciousness and control of my bladder couldn't hold head up.

 

Did anything change at the 16 month mark? Did you take any other medication such as an antibiotic? There are some forms of antibiotics that can cause severe problems in people who are currently taking benzos and even, months after coming off them. 

 

Quote

Hospital have Ativan and I walked out of the hospital after arriving in ambulance took Ativan a week then 16 days ago started 1.5 klonopin trying to stanaloze but meds make me sick not sure what to do. 

 

That quote is from your signature. 

 

What dose of Ativan were you? Did you do a direct crossover to Klonopin? 

 

What time of day do you take each of your drugs and at what dose? 

 

As you fill us in by answering the questions in bold, we will be better able to advise you in what to do next. 

 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

For the geodon I've been on 58 mg since oct 16 no reduction since. At 16 months I got my nails done in a salon for two hours and wave started after that. I take .5 mg klonopin 3xs a day for 19 days now.  

[Theaddictionfairy22]

10. 4. 10. On dosing times. Each time I take it I get a different reaction. They started me on Ativan I switched to klonopin 9 days later. 

[Shep]

Thanks for the additional information, AF. 

 

Please answer:

• What time(s) of the day do you take the Geodon? 
• Does the Geodon help with sleep? 
• What amount of Ativan were you on for the 9 days before switching to Klonopin?
• Did any of your symptoms get better after the reinstatement? Did any get worse? 
• Are you taking any supplements? If so, please list them. 

You've been on a benzo reinstatement for 9 days of Ativan plus 19 days of Klonopin, for a total of 28 days. This is long enough to develop dependency, however, you may be experiencing more symptoms due to the crossover, so it will help to have the amount of the Ativan. 

 

6 minutes ago, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

For the geodon I've been on 58 mg since oct 16 no reduction since. At 16 months I got my nails done in a salon for two hours and wave started after that.

 

This is very confusing. Please post the date for the 16 month mark (16 months after the 12/5/2016 Klonopin detox? And is this May 12, 2016 or December 5, 2016?) Please note that we are an international forum, so it's best to note the dates using the month written in your signature out so we don't make any mistakes. 

 

Depending on when you are taking the Geodon, you may be experiencing interdose withdrawal due to its short half life of about 7 hours (FDA - Geodon). For more about Geodon, please see:

 

Tips for tapering off ziprasidone (Geodon, Zeldox)

 

It will help us give you advice if you post a symptoms and drug journal using this format:

 

Drug and symptoms journal format

 

Please also include supplements and the hours you sleep at night. 

 

It's possible there may be some timing issues with when you take your drugs that may help. Also, as you give us more information about your latest Ativan to Klonopin switch, we may be able to help determine if you are at the right dose. 

 

Some additional information on reinstatements:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 

 

Notes on Benzo Reinstatements

 

Benzo reinstatements after 2 - 4 weeks from your jump date can be very risky. Since you've only been on this reinstatement for 28 days, you may decide you want to quickly taper off if you feel that it's not working. Quickly tapering off can be risky, as well, so this is a difficult decision.  After you have time to answer the latest questions in bold and read through the information linked, please post your thoughts on this so we know what you want to do. And then we can help you achieve your goals. 

 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

Geodon 9mg 7 9mg 10 and 40 mg at 9. Up until the 16th month mark April 8th I was doing great so don't believe it's geodon and it helps me sleep. 1mg Ativan 3xs a day same time as klonopin now. Almost all of my symptoms are gone but when I take my medicine I get different reactions. Weak. Tired. Drunk. Sick. Etc. I take iron pill. I was very functional and doing great up until the week after the nail salon then became bedridden 12/6/16 did 5 day detox off klonopin acute lasted a couple days. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

I would like to stabalize and take a break for a while then begin a very very slow taper. I just don't know if I should be stable now after 19 days or if it takes longer. Also I'll have a good day then a bad day repeat. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

I took the geodon at bedtime only for ten years and never had a side effect or interpose withdrawal. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

When you first reinstated did you have different reactions to every time you dosed. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

One day I'll have a good day and it's like I'm stabilizing then the next day I can't get out of bed. It makes no sence. 

[xyz]

yes, it felt toxic at first, it tool several weeks if not months for it to be fine.

i tried to go back on klonopin, i couldn't tolerate it. xanax was fine but i had interdose withdrawal, i settled down on valium.

i felt very depressed and my body felt heavy, then the reactions went away.

[Theaddictionfairy22]

Why couldn't you tolerate the klonopin? Thanks for your response it's very helpful. It's like one time I'll take a dose and be fine the next get real sick it's up and down but it's only been 19 days. 

[xyz]

i only tried for a couple time. both times, i had weird body sensation, i felt glued to my bed, sensations that i didn't have when i was on it before for 9 months.

the valium felt easier, don't know how to explain it.

 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

You've been the most helpful I've spoken to so far thank you it's weird cause like two days ago I went to my mother in laws for the day had a good day. Yesterday couldn't get out of bed had bad reactions to all three doses then today was able to drive and do a little housework and much better day does that sound familiar. 

[xyz]

are you asking about klono or benzo reinstatement in general?

 

i was so distabilised that each time i took my dose i felt weird, then it slowly got better.

the depression was big with the valium but i started lexapro at the same time, so it helped a lot.

now my days are really consistent, not great in the morning but feeling really good after 3pm.

i take my dose before going to bed, so don't feel the side effect.

 

don't do what i did. start tapering only when you feel consistently okay.

[Theaddictionfairy22]

In general.  Have you always taken it at just bed. That's how I used to take my klonopin but now it's like every six hours I start to get bad so have to dose. I'd love to move it to just bed time but don't know if I'm the future that will be possible. 

[xyz]

i started with multi dosing because i had anxiety throughout the day. then when i felt better, i slowly move all my dose to the evening. i think i did that at after 10 months or a year.

by the time i moved all my dose, i didn't have much side effect, i was already low in my dosage and started to sleep at least 5 hours a night.

at 4mg of valium i had side effect, not at 2mg.

i moved my dose because i wanted to sleep more and i went back to work and kept forgetting my daytime dose.

 

how much of klonopin were you on before you re-instated?

 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

10. 4. 10. On dosing times. Each time I take it I get a different reaction.

 

21 hours ago, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

Geodon 9mg 7 9mg 10 and 40 mg at 9.

 

Hi, AF.

 

From your recent posts, this is a list of how you're dosing throughout the day:

  7 am Geodon 9 mg
10 am Klonopin .5 mg and Geodon 9 mg
  4 pm Klonopin .5 mg
  9 pm Geodon    40 mg
10 pm Klonopin .5 mg

The reason you're getting a different reaction each time you take the drugs may be due to a "moderate" drug interaction between Geodon and Klonopin. Please see the drug interaction report:

 

Drug Interaction Checker - Geodon and Klonopin

 

In the list of interactions are dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating along with impaired judgement and coordination issues. 

 

As you can see in the liver enzyme chart for Geodon and Klonopin, these drugs are both "substrates of 3A4".  This means that both drugs are competing for the same liver enzyme.  It would be best to take them 2 to 3 hours apart. 

 

 

21 hours ago, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

Almost all of my symptoms are gone but when I take my medicine I get different reactions. Weak. Tired. Drunk. Sick. Etc.

 

Are the symptoms the worst after you take the 10 am doses of both Klonopin and Geodon? If so, that could be the drug interaction. You may want to space these drugs at least 2 hours apart. 

 

20 hours ago, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

I just don't know if I should be stable now after 19 days or if it takes longer.

 

It takes 4 days for your nervous system to register the change but it can take several weeks or even several months to stabilize. And since this benzo reinstatement was over a year after coming off, it may take longer. You may also be dealing with kindling, meaning your nervous system is now hyper-reacting. Please see:

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

Benzos are especially notorious for causing kindling and making the nervous system hyper-sensitive. The more you've been on and off a benzo, the more problematic each subsequent withdrawal becomes. 

 

 

19 hours ago, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

I took the geodon at bedtime only for ten years and never had a side effect or interpose withdrawal. 

 

It's not uncommon to start having these types of problems after you start tapering - even though the drugs are the same, your nervous system has changed and become much more sensitive. 

 

In the thread One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, Alto writes:

 

On 5/24/2011 at 10:59 PM, Altostrata said:

My guess is: The first phase of withdrawal, the acute phase, is the initial shock of withdrawal, with the most defined symptoms, such as brain zaps and nausea and possibly waves of unusually intense "depression" and "anxiety" -- actually, emotions generated by the neurological upset. Later, glutamatergic hyper-reactivity and autonomic instability take over. Often the autonomic instability causes wide hypersensitivity to drugs, supplements, and even foods.

 

16 hours ago, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

One day I'll have a good day and it's like I'm stabilizing then the next day I can't get out of bed. It makes no sence. 

 

This is a great video that explains the non-linear withdrawal of antidepressants, but it could just as easily be about benzos and antipsychotics:

 

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery video (4 minutes)

 

And a great thread that goes into more detail:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

21 hours ago, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

I take iron pill.

 

Some people find that supplements such as iron and certain B vitamins can ramp up symptoms. You may want to keep a drug and symptoms journal (this is a great format) to see if you notice upticks in symptoms when you take it. If so, you may want to try to get your iron from eating iron-rich foods. 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

The drug interaction between Geodon and Klonopin is concerning - please post your thoughts on this and if you think that moving the two drugs away from each other may help. If you need help setting up a schedule, please let me know and when I'm online tomorrow morning, I'll be glad to help you with that. 

[Shep]

11 hours ago, Theaddictionfairy22 said:

That's how I used to take my klonopin but now it's like every six hours I start to get bad so have to dose. I'd love to move it to just bed time but don't know if I'm the future that will be possible. 

 

AF, please see my latest post in your thread - Theaddictionfairy22: Reinstated a benzo after 19 months.

 

You may be dealing with a drug interaction between Klonopin and Geodon.  Please do not move all of your Klonopin and take it at night when you are taking the largest dose of Geodon at that time. 

 

Let's discuss the timing of your drugs in your main intro thread.

[Shep]

AF, I just took a look at the peak concentration levels of both Geodon and Klonopin.

 

Geodon peaks at 6 - 8 hours and Klonopin is 1 - 4 hours.  The build up can take an additional hour or two, so you may be getting drug interactions 8 hours or more after dosing Geodon. If the Geodon is interferring with the absorption of the Klonopin, you could be getting a paradoxical reaction to the benzo. Benzos, more than a lot of other psych drugs, are known for turning paradoxical. 

 

Please go ahead and post a drug and symptoms here in your thread in this format: 

 

Drug and symptoms journal

 

Please also include supplements and the hours you are sleeping at night. 

 

I'd like to get Alto and the other mods for feedback, as a benzo reinstatement this far out can be quite tricky, especially with a drug that is interacting. After a few days of your journal, we should have a clearer idea of what is going on and if there may be a way of tweaking the timing of your drugs that may make you more comfortable. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

I actually do better with my morning dose than I do my 4pm  I took them together before I cold turkeyed and never had any reaction for 9 months. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

Before my 16 month wave I did not have interpose withdrawal I never have with geodon 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

that's how I took it before and my dr said there's no interaction and when it builds up and I feel more stable I could move it. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

I don't always have a bad reaction it's happening less now but still happens. Mostly makes me drunk or tired. Then when it wears off I feel weak sometimes not always and shaky. 

[Theaddictionfairy22]

I have a uti and just reinstated and am already sick just seeing if this will make it worse? 

[Altostrata]

We're going to need your daily symptom pattern. Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.