Freespirit - A Life Free from Antidepressants

[MRothbard]

Considering taking up meditation again. Difficult to do in the midst of anxiety. Do u think it helped rebuold your brain?

[Rachellynn]

Yoga, meditation, dry brushing, watching funny things on tv, Ayurveda, osteopathic manipulation, etc...

[freespirit]

What kind of meditation are you considering  @MRothbard? It is challenging to do when anxious. I relied more on qi gong (moving meditation) for awhile and it often helps me more with anxiety. I've also used hypnosis, Taoist meditations, and guided imagery.  Mindfulness Meditation (both sitting and moving) have helped enormously through this process:

•  Settling the nervous system
• Calming the mind and emotions
• Helping to work with difficult emotions
• Bringing balance by doing heart-opening practices like loving kindness or forgiveness (loving kindness was originally taught as an antidote to fear)
• Developing self-compassion
• Letting go of unhelpful thoughts
• Accepting things as they are
• Becoming more resilient--much of that due to being able to allow and be compassionate with intense and difficult experiences
• Releasing tension in the body
• Learning more to accept the changing nature of life

It would be difficult for me to only name 1 thing as being helpful. I've tried to address all levels-spiritual, physical, emotional, and mental in many different ways. I've found there's no single fix, but a number of different things that help both in the short and long term. For me, spiritual practice is the cornerstone of my life. That's not for treating "symptoms", but more for the purpose of awakening. And I've tried to use the WD process that way too--as an avenue of learning to work with difficulty and serve some deeper purpose. For me, just looking to remove a symptom is exactly what Western medicine does. And it's not something that has served me well--it's part of what got me on meds in the 1st place.

 

If anxiety is an issue, you might experiment with some different types of meditation. For example, focusing on sound rather than the body can sometimes be easier. Same with practicing walking meditation or some other form of movement. Guided meditations can provide some support, where you don't feel so much you are doing it alone. Guided practices also teach new skills or help alleviate that sense of facing into the empty space.

[freespirit]

I got an accepted offer on my house yesterday. The month between putting it on the market and actually selling wasn't an easy one, especially the last week or 2. I've gone through some very intense emotions. Sometimes, I've wondered if there is any WD at play and I'm not sure. I think moving is considered one of the major stressors anyway. It had been quite awhile since I felt such despair and anger, but I've managed through yet one more hurdle.

 

Next on my agenda is traveling east again to look for a new home. Moving in the winter is less than ideal, but it's what I'll be doing. I think it's better than spending another winter here in the gray.

 

Though I am sleeping every night, it's only been for 5 or 6 hours. I haven't felt able to take afternoon naps much either, though I expect it would help if I could. But even with the lack of rest, my energy has been decent and I've been able to get the things done that I need to. I've been very selective about what friends I'm spending time with. I don't want to be around people who aren't supportive, given that I feel more vulnerable. And I find myself more easily triggered than I might normally be.

 

I know there will be people that I miss when I leave here. But I'm also filled with anticipation of possibilities in a new place. There are much better work and volunteer situations, plus I'll be very close to the mountains for hiking and photography. The cost of nearly everything will be less there, which should mean a bit easier time managing on my own. I know that a move isn't a fix for anything, but if it's like any of the other times I've moved, it can be a way to reinvent myself.

 

There's a lot of work to be done, between now and when I move. But I trust I'll be able to get through this time too.

[Hibari]

You will definitely get through this time FreeSpirit. 

 

I know you have been very thoughtful about this move and taken many things into consideration.

 

As with all the advice you offer members here, your openness to your process is inspiring even when you go through tough times. 

 

 

 

 

[FarmGirlWorks]

On 10/25/2018 at 9:52 AM, freespirit said:

Moving in the winter is less than ideal, but it's what I'll be doing. I think it's better than spending another winter here in the gray.... I know that a move isn't a fix for anything, but if it's like any of the other times I've moved, it can be a way to reinvent myself. 

This all sounds amazing @freespirit. Getting out of the gray is my dream too these days. And that is so true about moving being a door to reinventing oneself, or at least a nice tweak 🙂 Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

 

[freespirit]

On 10/30/2018 at 5:12 PM, Hibari said:

You will definitely get through this time FreeSpirit. 

 

I know you have been very thoughtful about this move and taken many things into consideration.

 

As with all the advice you offer members here, your openness to your process is inspiring even when you go through tough times. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Hibari. I really appreciate how you're often able to reflect things back to me that I can't yet see for myself. You've been an amazing source of support me in this journey.

 

I know you've been really struggling for a couple of months now. Hoping that you're able to find your way through soon, to a better and more stable place.

[freespirit]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:52 PM, FarmGirlWorks said:

This all sounds amazing @freespirit. Getting out of the gray is my dream too these days. And that is so true about moving being a door to reinventing oneself, or at least a nice tweak 🙂 Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

 

 

Thanks FGW. Yes, the gray can be incredibly wearing. I think perhaps it's been worse for me since WD, although I've never really done well in it. It will be an adjustment to be in much colder weather, but I'm not so worried about it. Change can be a very good thing.

 

I'm going to put in an offer this weekend on a house I found there. It looks like everything is going through on the sale of my house. I expect all the conditions will be removed on Monday (fingers crossed). The house I'm looking to buy is available now, so a fast closing is possible. Just a question of whether I can get everything done in such a short period, as well as find movers without a huge amount of notice. So, will see how that unfolds. I'm anxious, but at the same time, okay. I just keep reassuring myself than anyone making a big move would have some anxiety.

 

I hope you're able to make a change at the right time too.

[manymoretodays]

Oh Wow freespirit.......things are moving quickly for you, it seems.

And yes, for sure.......moving is one of those top 10 stressors and it sounds like you are doing great with it all.  Sooo......as things turned out, for me.......it has not been of high priority lately.......and it's feeling right, now, to stay put a bit longer.  None the less........I can keep streamlining my efforts on a bit of clearance activity.  Hopefully my big sale(or not so big) will be this Spring......as far as ridding myself of some of my rustic eclectic decor/collections.  Meantime I can sort and give away, or can donate what is stuff to give away, and not sell.

Just picture or go to that feeling of when, once you are moved.......and just getting settled again........that awesome newness and freshness of everything around you........oh, and all the exploring and discovering that you can do in your new place, new location, etc.

It'll be great!

So glad you'll be getting more sunshine too!

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

[freespirit]

I'm glad that you're listening to what's right for you in terms of timing manymoretodays. If you don't have to move, I feel it's better to wait until you're ready to do it. If you can, getting rid of things will make it all the easier. I've been clearing things out ever since my wife died. It's making the packing process fast and easy--nothing to sort through.

 

All the practices developed before and during WD are helping me with the stress of things. I know it's possible to calm myself through qi gong, meditation, and exercise. I'm relying on those a lot right now and they will also carry me in the new place. I'm very much looking forward to new possibilities, in a place where there's much more happening. The recreation center is top-notch and includes 80 drop-in classes a week, plus the ones you can register for. There's an animal sanctuary nearby and I'll be a reasonable distance to the hospice--which I've been told is one of the best in the country. So, at least, some volunteer opportunities and I'll also be trying to find some part-time work or create something for myself.

 

Assuming everything goes through, I'll be moving in 5 weeks. It is fast for this part....and I've been waiting a long time to make a change from living here. I hope to be able to do a retreat at home, once I get settled. That should help carry me to whatever comes next. In the moment, I'm tired and there's so much work left to be done. But I keep at it, day by day, and trust that I'll be able to complete what I need to. Sometimes, a bit of pressure is a motivator too.

[manymoretodays]

I am a great fan of your "home retreats"  freespirit. 

Yes.....just a bit of pressure though.....not too much.......as far as that being a motivator.  Too much is too much for me.  And that's a challenge......how to keep just a bit of pressure.  Priorities?  Going with what is really important to one?

Hospice work, eh?  Fortunately or unfortunately.......it seems I get to do that a lot now......in a family member or friend capacity.

 

I'll be following.......I mean your thread here.......out loud laugh.......

Appreciate your insight.

 

Much happiness.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

[freespirit]

On 11/6/2018 at 9:23 AM, manymoretodays said:

I am a great fan of your "home retreats"  freespirit. 

Yes.....just a bit of pressure though.....not too much.......as far as that being a motivator.  Too much is too much for me.  And that's a challenge......how to keep just a bit of pressure.  Priorities?  Going with what is really important to one?

Hospice work, eh?  Fortunately or unfortunately.......it seems I get to do that a lot now......in a family member or friend capacity.

 

I'll be following.......I mean your thread here.......out loud laugh.......

Appreciate your insight.

 

Much happiness.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

In some ways, I prefer the self-guided retreats at home. It's so much easier not to travel and also, to be able to follow the kind of schedule that works for me. It's also a bonus having my 2 cats come to meditate with me.

 

Yes, It's a challenge to find some balance with stress. I've found having an intention helps me in following through with things I might normally put off. I've had moments of feeling the buying/selling/moving to be over the top stressful. But qi gong and meditation help incredibly with reducing anxiety and worry. I'd be lost without them. I'm doing about an hour/day of qi gong right now--usually spread out over 2 or 3 sessions in a day.

 

I did hospice work for a lot of years, including the time spent on the research project. I've also cared for a couple of family members at the end of their lives. I find it very meaningful work and really appreciate the companionship of other people who are passionate about end-of-life care. I may do some grief counseling again or at least, I'm interested in doing it. Will see if the need and opportunity are there in the new place. There are several interesting things that I want to check out when I'm settled in my new home.

[freespirit]

Well, last night was the first time in a very long while I've experienced things that felt similar to WD. This whole process of selling and buying has been a total nightmare, unlike any other time I've made this kind of transition. I think anyone would have melted down as I have a number of times over it. Last night, I had hot and cold flashes, and a very strange feeling in my head. Not brain zaps, but more a feeling that my brain wasn't quite right. I did a lot of qi gong, which helped both those symptoms, as well as the emotional bent I was on. At times, anxiety has felt similar to what I felt during WD. People keep reminding me that moving is one of the top 5 stressors. I'm finding it hard going through it alone, even though some friends have been very caring and supportive. It's still just me making all the decisions and paying for everything on my own.

 

I only have 1 month until I move, with a lot to be done in that time. Am doing my best to take one step at a time, but I do feel overwhelmed in some moments.

 

Last week, I bought a couple of audiobooks which I highly recommend. Of course, they may not be appropriate for everyone and probably wouldn't be the right thing at certain places of WD. But for this time of real difficulty, both of them have been extremely helpful: 

 

https://www.soundstrue.com/store/guided-meditations-for-difficult-times-1376.html

https://www.soundstrue.com/store/self-compassion-step-by-step-3172.html

 

I haven't been on here to read lately. Having enough of my own angst, without becoming overwhelmed by all the suffering on here. But that's totally about caring for myself through this time; I still care about people on here going through WD.

 

 

[Hibari]

All of what you have written above would cause such stress. You are doing so much to get ready to move and as you said, mainly on your own.  It makes sense your body is in a state of flux and is having reactions. 

 

It may not comfort you but I see the fact that you decided to move and are moving as a real indication of your success getting off medication.  

 

Despite all the hardships around this move, you are going to do it. You are not held down by withdrawal because you have a deep strength well of strength inside of you.

 

You also have deep sensitivity as well and that's important. Its good that you know you need self-care right now.  

 

 

 

 

[freespirit]

Thanks Hibari. Your posts have been so supportive and I appreciate that you can often see things that aren't apparent to me. Someone reminded me yesterday that moving is in the top 3 of stressors. And in this past year, I've also had a serious injury and job loss. No wonder I'm having meltdowns some days. But the work during WD has really cemented self-care in and it's not something I have to think about or coach myself to do. It's more automatic and consistent than it ever was before this process.

 

I know that even a year ago or perhaps 6 months, I wouldn't have been in a place to withstand the stress. In spite of how difficult it's sometimes been, I'm not having hives or any allergy symptoms. I consider that to be quite a miracle. I've been able to go back to a vegetarian diet, with very few issues resulting. All of that is confirmation of healing from something I thought I wouldn't recover from.

 

I especially appreciate you stopping in and offering your kind words, as I know life has been a real struggle for you over the past few months. It doesn't feel like it when things are so awful, but I believe healing is happening anyway. Hang in there. Things will get better again.

[freespirit]

Well, I've survived the packing process and the movers came a few days ago for my belongings. I'm still in the house for a few more days, then will fly out with the 2 cats to my new home. I'd thought there might be more grief during this last part, but it hasn't been too difficult. Saying goodbye to some people has been hard, but with technology these days, it's pretty easy to keep in touch.

 

I'm not sure if I wrote this in my regular thread, but I switched over from Synthroid to Natural Dessicated Thyroid about 3 months ago. I've seen a lot of improvement through this time. My blood sugar has been more steady (very few big drops anymore), temp regulation has been much better, my hair and skin are softer and less dry, my brain seems to be working more creatively and effectively, fluid retention I've had for years has gone away, energy level is more consistent, and there's less joint or muscle pain. My naturopath believes that I've been undertreated with synthroid and I tend to agree.

 

The other thing I wanted to mention is that I've gone back to primarily a plant-based diet. I was a vegetarian for 10 years and during that period, the diet worked very well for me. Going back to meat and dairy contributed to some weight gain, along with the drugs. Though my preference would be to go vegan, I'm not totally sure I'll be able to pull it off. The motivation for doing that is primarily ethical. It's shocking and upsetting to me how badly farm animals are treated. But I have to balance that with what's possible in terms of my health. Though the histamine issues are significantly improved, eating a lot of legumes still doesn't seem to be an option. So, I'm eating mostly vegetarian, with very infrequent bits of meat. I do still eat yogurt on a fairly regular basis though and once in awhile, some butter.

 

I'm still amazed that my nervous system has done as well as it has through this period of stress. I'm waking most nights for a short period, but generally go back to sleep. But I do long for some nights of sleeping all the way through and feeling a bit more rested than I do at the moment. But other than the early awakening, I'm doing pretty well. I'm certain this would not have been the case had I moved earlier.

[Happy2Heal]

hi Freespirit,

 I lost track of your thread and just found it now and wow, have you been busy! glad to things are going fairly well, considering all you've been thru and the move! omgoodness yes, one of the most stressful things for sure.

I hope you love your new home and that the adjustment period goes smoothly

Nice to have some cats for company! I found petting my cat to be a great stress reliever

 

 

[freespirit]

Thanks @Happy2Heal. Yes, I love my cats and they do provide a lot of comfort. I'm a bit concerned about how the stress of this is going to be for them, but I figure the calmer I am, the better it will be for them. So far, they are handling things much better than I imagined they would. Fortunately, I have a friend coming with me, who will stay for a few days to help us get settled. The cats love her; they've known her since we first brought them home as kittens.

 

I noticed you mention gratitude in your success story. It's something I've worked with off and on, but have been a lot more consistent in the past month or so. I notice how much gratitude arises naturally now and how often I am thanking someone...and really meaning it. There's so much good to life, but very often, we don't pay attention to it. Our minds are conditioned to focus on the negative. And coming off AD only seems to heighten that for most of us. I've read that with regular practice, gratitude can become a trait. https://www.rickhanson.net/take-in-the-good/

[Happy2Heal]

4 hours ago, freespirit said:

I figure the calmer I am, the better it will be for them

ah yes, the mantra I learned in one of the cat care books: "calm owner= calm cat"   You are so good to your kitties, having a friend stay with them.  ❤️

 

4 hours ago, freespirit said:

I notice how much gratitude arises naturally now and how often I am thanking someone...and really meaning it. There's so much good to life, but very often, we don't pay attention to it. Our minds are conditioned to focus on the negative. And coming off AD only seems to heighten that for most of us. I've read that with regular practice, gratitude can become a trait. https://www.rickhanson.net/take-in-the-good/

 

 

yes I agree, there's a lot of good in life that we often overlook... it does take practice to notice it though. I Love RIck Hanson and bought several of his books, including Hardwiring Happiness.

I re read it often.  

 

I notice that I sometimes go between two extremes, one being that I  get in a mindset of having certain expectations of things being/going the way I want them to, or think they "should';  almost a feeling of entitlement, really. (it makes me disappointed in myself that this happens but I'm human) When I realize that I'm feeling/thinking that way, and make myself let go of those expectations, I experience more true gratitude and am able to express it.

The other extreme is when I am expecting things to be all bad and have forgotten to look for and take in the good, but that happens less and less.

Hopefully that feeling of being entitled to a certain amnt of "good" things will also happen less *blush*

 

it's often a balancing act....so many things seem to be that way. 

 

now that I am no longer numb and am feeling my feelings, I need to focus more on achieving a balance.

 

has that been part of your experience? (don't feel any pressure to respond esp whilst you are moving and so busy)

 

 

 

[freespirit]

Yes, that's been my experience too about balance. And I've found that what counts as balance keeps changing all the time. At some points in WD, the main thing was trying to calm my nervous system and slow down the intensity of emotion. Now, I'm learning more and more to open to the intense emotions, without being overwhelmed by them. Every morning, I am doing compassion and equanimity meditations. You don't need to be Buddhist or believe in anything really, to be helped by these meditations. The compassion helps in being able to accept the feelings and have compassion for myself in the process. The equanimity practice is all about finding balance amidst the emotions. Qi gong also helps a great deal with balancing emotions. When I'm more balanced, emotions can move through (even very strong ones) and I'm not overwhelmed by them.

 

I think you've written about having trauma in your childhood too. Being traumatized really affects our ability to cope with emotions. Many people with trauma fluctuate between numbness and feeling swamped by their feelings. That was certainly true for me. And of course, the meds add another layer to all of that. In many ways, I feel as though I am finally learning what many people learn early in life.

 

I'm sure that's right about calm owner and calm cat. They have done amazingly well so far..in a way that has surprised me. Same for me...I'm doing much better than expected. I've managed to do quite a bit of unpacking so far and now have a long list of phone calls to make to arrange this and that. It was a great support having my friend here for those few days and I'm very grateful for that. Even my sleep has been reasonable here. I had one night of sleeping through without waking. The other couple I've been awake in the night, but quickly able to go back to sleep.

 

Thanks for your comments @Happy2Heal

[cathnz]

On 1/15/2019 at 4:28 AM, freespirit said:

Yes, that's been my experience too about balance. And I've found that what counts as balance keeps changing all the time. At some points in WD, the main thing was trying to calm my nervous system and slow down the intensity of emotion. Now, I'm learning more and more to open to the intense emotions, without being overwhelmed by them. Every morning, I am doing compassion and equanimity meditations. You don't need to be Buddhist or believe in anything really, to be helped by these meditations. The compassion helps in being able to accept the feelings and have compassion for myself in the process. The equanimity practice is all about finding balance amidst the emotions. Qi gong also helps a great deal with balancing emotions. When I'm more balanced, emotions can move through (even very strong ones) and I'm not overwhelmed by them.

 

I think you've written about having trauma in your childhood too. Being traumatized really affects our ability to cope with emotions. Many people with trauma fluctuate between numbness and feeling swamped by their feelings. That was certainly true for me. And of course, the meds add another layer to all of that. In many ways, I feel as though I am finally learning what many people learn early in life.

 

I'm sure that's right about calm owner and calm cat. They have done amazingly well so far..in a way that has surprised me. Same for me...I'm doing much better than expected. I've managed to do quite a bit of unpacking so far and now have a long list of phone calls to make to arrange this and that. It was a great support having my friend here for those few days and I'm very grateful for that. Even my sleep has been reasonable here. I had one night of sleeping through without waking. The other couple I've been awake in the night, but quickly able to go back to sleep.

 

Thanks for your comments @Happy2Heal

 

 @freespirit I love reading your posts, they fill me with hope. I'm currently on mirtazapine (after a disasterous switch from paroxetine) and the dose they put me in is too high. I'm looking at tapering in the future. I'm just wondering how you did your dose decreases? We don't have liquid available here in NZ.

Thanks, and I love your calm positivity, its fantastic. 

[freespirit]

19 hours ago, cathnz said:

 

 @freespirit I love reading your posts, they fill me with hope. I'm currently on mirtazapine (after a disasterous switch from paroxetine) and the dose they put me in is too high. I'm looking at tapering in the future. I'm just wondering how you did your dose decreases? We don't have liquid available here in NZ.

Thanks, and I love your calm positivity, its fantastic. 

@cathnz thanks for your post. Sorry to hear the mirt has been a disastrous experience. I would definitely not recommend following my example of tapering. I came upon the site after I had jumped off. If you're looking for someone who's really knowledgeable and has done well with tapering and jumping off this particular med, I'd recommend 

BTW believe me I am not always calm or positive 😊

[Cocopuffz17]

Absolutely amazing!! You are so strong and all the positive changes you took to better yourself. That is great! Thank you soooo much for posting your experience!!  

[freespirit]

On 10/25/2019 at 5:18 PM, Cocopuffz17 said:

Absolutely amazing!! You are so strong and all the positive changes you took to better yourself. That is great! Thank you soooo much for posting your experience!!  

 

• Thanks for your comments. I'm happy when something I've said or been through helps someone else. One of these days, I'll post an update as it's been quite awhile. Good luck to you @Cocopuffz17

[freespirit]

It's been a long time since I last posted. It's been a very full on time for me on many levels. 

 

My move went well and within a few weeks here, felt more at home than anywhere I've been in decades. I've done lots of hiking in the mountains in all seasons, as well as cycling in the seasons without snow. I made friends here easily and have found a community to be a part of. I have never looked back and find I rarely even think about the place I lived before. This is home and it's huge for me to feel that way. 

 

I dropped out of the meditation teacher training program, finding it not to be a good fit for me. I'm just now looking at some other training, with the possibility of going back to work again. I've enjoyed a lot of aspects of retirement, but still feel there's a desire to contribute to the world. 

 

A few months ago, I went through a very challenging period. Something happened regarding my thyroid. It took me awhile to figure out that the symptoms I was having were due to thyroid medication. In some ways, it looked like classic WD symptoms, even complete with brain zaps. I'll never know if there was something wrong with the meds I was given, or if it was just that my thyroid changed in some way and I no longer needed them. Recent tests have indicated that my thyroid is in normal range--without any medication. Anyway, it was a scary period of time, where I had no idea what was happening. I've been a couple of months without desiccated thyroid and feel much better again. 

 

I was seeing a somatic therapist and for awhile, that seemed to be a good thing. I'm taking a break from it now, since there are no in-person sessions with covid. But I'm leaning more and more towards not returning. I'm not convinced that it's doing what it proposes to be doing. I'm doing some other work, which is proving more expedient and beneficial. 

 

I was talking with an SA friend a few days about the realities of living a life which is committed to being free of psych meds. Though I've never regretted my decision to come off Mirtazapine, it is not what I'd call an easy life living without drugs. Of course, I have a long history of child abuse and neglect, which is definitely a very significant factor. Don't get my wrong--my life in every respect is infinitely better than it was on mirt. But I work every single day with the practices I've done for a long time, plus new things that I've added along the way. I say this not to discourage anyone from coming off meds, but to help allay the idea of a perfect Hollywood ending. I still have some issues around histamine and sometimes, find symptoms popping up again. Overall, I handle it much better than I used do---but there are still a lot of things to be dealt with on a daily basis. 

 

There is definitely life after meds. There's so much to feel grateful for. I'm more active and fit than I was for a couple of decades. I'm getting better and better at handling emotions that were shut down for so long. There's more openness to trying new things. I'm better at letting go when things aren't working. I'm much less likely to turn on myself when things go south--and in fact, can so often feel compassion for suffering when it comes. I'm more able to let safe people in than I was before. I can appreciate the so called "small" things in life in ways I rarely could on the meds--moments in nature, being with friends, petting my cats, enjoying physical activity, listening to music, learning new things. Sometimes, I forget who I was on meds...which I think isn't a bad thing. 

 

I always hope there is something I've been through that can be encouraging for someone else. There can be so much suffering both on meds and coming off them. And though my life is not a Hollywood movie, it is still a good and worthy life to be living. So, keep on keeping on. Life can and will change, if we let it. 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by freespirit
typos

[ten0275]

@freespirit

 

What a beautiful and honest update you have given us here. Thank you so incredibly much for sharing what has been happening with you of late. For sharing both the ups and downs of life as it truly is after the drugs. I'm so glad you were able to work through that challenging period you describe of a couple of months ago, I am absolutely sure it was harrowing. You have so much to be proud of. I have always been thankful for your support, encouragement and wisdom.

 

And what a breathtaking photo!

 

Hang in there and keep up the good work.

 

In solidarity,

Dave

[freespirit]

@ten0275

 

Thanks for your response Dave. We are fellow Mirtazapine survivors! 

 

I bought myself a digital SLR camera last year and am thoroughly enjoying the opportunities here for photography. 

 

I forgot to mention that through most of this past year, the chronic pain has been considerably less. Probably due both to the somatic therapy and other work I've been doing. That's made my life so much better; I've been able to exercise more strenuously and build up some strength. It also means that pain almost never interferes with sleep anymore. 

 

Sleep has been inconsistent. The somatic work stirred things up a lot, often affecting rest. That's the opposite of what's supposed to happen with SE. But the other things I'm doing have helped even it out again. I usually sleep about 7 -7.5 hours. 

[tsranga]

Thank you for sharing your journey and giving us hope.

 

I  am just about 2 years off from a C/T withdrawal, and there are two main patterns that seem to be recurring and persistent.

 

1. Waking up between 3-6am. This is pretty consistent, and results in 4-5 hrs of sleep. Fortunately, the anxiety, GI issues accompanying have subsided. This doesn't bother me too much other than the stream of thoughts that last for 3 hrs post wakeup, where I seem to be in a REM / awake state. Did you have this and how/when did it go away?  

 

2. I have had chronic IBS with burping as main symptom, but I have developed food sensitivity in withdrawal. I am working on healing the gut which is really helping with the intensity, duration and frequency of flare-ups. However, I notice that 1-3 times a month, I have symptoms that indicate histamine overload as they happen between 11pm and 4am and involve feeling wired, followed by burping, flushing, and then multiple bowel movements, after which I  get extremely cold, and rarely get sleep.  It can happen without a food trigger (strong perfume, exercise on a warm day, weather change etc), and I feel it's a combination of things that tip the histamine bucket. 

 

Do you have a similar pattern? And other than staying awake after a high histamine food, did you have other symptoms too? How are you doing with it now?

 

 

 

 

[freespirit]

@tsranga thanks for your questions. 

 

I still sometimes have periods of being awake during the night. I no longer look at it as histamine intolerance, though that probably plays some part in things. I'm more focused on healing my nervous system from the childhood trauma and neglect--the original source of nervous system dysregulation. I find there are multiple causes for sleep challenges--weather, mood, amount of exercise and relaxation, stress, diet, season,  etc. I don't really adhere to a low histamine diet, though there are some foods that I choose to avoid. 

 

If I'm awake, I'll meditate or listen to music. I try to make use of the time and not resist it. 

 

I had lots of symptoms from high histamine--hives, sneezing, runny nose, watery eyes, muscle and joint pain, restricted breathing, nausea, heart palpitations, fatigue.....I don't really suffer from these very often anymore. It typically takes a number of things going on to bring on these symptoms--which really amounts to a high amount of stress as cause. 

 

In general, if I eat higher histamine foods earlier in the day, it's much less likely to affect sleep. 

 

Hope that answers your questions. 

[tsranga]

@freespiritthank you. Looks like I have none of your symptoms - mine are mainly GI related it appears along with hot/cold fluctuations. 

 

I agree with you that eating those foods early, and just dealing with a sleepless flare-up (which occurs 1-3 times a month) is the best way forward.  How is your sleep otherwise? I consistently get about 4 hours and then it depends on what else is going on. I try to take frequent breaks during the day to lie down and breathe for 15-20 min, which helps.

[freespirit]

@tsranga I have temperature dysregulation at times too--but not only at night. And I've been through a lot of rounds of GI issues--especially early on. It's much less of an issue now and mostly tied to eating too heavily at dinner. It's better for me to eat my main meal at lunch. 

 

I think it's very wise taking breaks like that during the day. Resting can help for sure. 

 

Except for the less-than-ideal nights, I'm averaging 7.5 hours of sleep for the most part. Emotional issues, especially any interpersonal difficulties, affect my sleep more than anything else. I quit therapy a couple of months ago and without that--I'm sleeping much better most nights. 

 

Hang in there. Recovery can be a slow process, but it happens. 

 

[tsranga]

20 minutes ago, freespirit said:

I have temperature dysregulation at times too--but not only at night. And I've been through a lot of rounds of GI issues--especially early on. It's much less of an issue now and mostly tied to eating too heavily at dinner. It's better for me to eat my main meal at lunch

 

Same here. When I have a sudden change in weather, the body takes a while to adjust. I have also found dinner to be tricky and restrict my gastronomic adventures to lunch.

 

I think outside food last night was the trigger (my wife also had a bad GI upset) - it was my first takeout meal from a new place in 6 months. Any new food seems to cause a reaction.

 

I have to introduce any change in small doses due to being so hypersensitive.

[Jav1]

hi @freespirit it's been a while and I hope you are doing well.  

 

It is encouraging to read your success story. I am now 3 months off Mirt and still suffering horrible withdrawal - burning sensation on my body & tinnitus! did your tinnitus go away? do you still recall how long it took for your physical symptoms to pass? I am really having a hard time right now and need all the encouragement I can get.

[freespirit]

Hi @JAV1.  Yes my tinnitus went away, but I still have it now and then--if I am overtired or very stressed. But it typically only lasts for a short period of time.  I don't remember the exact timeline for symptoms. I didn't keep a record as some people do. But they came and went in intensity for awhile. A lot of my symptoms came down to histamine intolerance and once I went on a low histamine diet and slowly added a couple of supplements, things started improving physically. I notice that you take fish oil, which I know is recommended on this site. However, if histamine is an issue, fish oil isn't a great choice. I take algae oil instead and have never gone back to fish oil. 

 

I know how discouraging it can feel. For me, it was really important to do meditation and qi gong practices. A lot of my symptoms were exacerbated by stress and emotional distress. Those calming things, including taking a walk in nature, resting, listening to quiet music, were all essential to healing. 

 

I see that you weren't on Mirt for that long, so hopefully, that works in your favor. It's an art not to become distressed by symptoms, but it can be cultivated. Hang in there...things will get better. 

[Arthur]

@freespirit.. my i ask what alge oil you take?

[freespirit]

@Arthur this is the one I take https://www.amazon.ca/Umac-Core-Marine-Phytoplankton-economy/dp/B06Y5QLGNR/ref=sxts_rp_s1_0?cv_ct_cx=Umac-Core+Marine+Phytoplankton&dchild=1&keywords=Umac-Core+Marine+Phytoplankton&pd_rd_i=B06Y5QLGNR&pd_rd_r=f71b147a-fd40-4416-b2a5-f8d3f7046d5d&pd_rd_w=3H5q6&pd_rd_wg=2V0kt&pf_rd_p=3e8d8cef-cc15-4aa2-b2be-0a0a3feb3204&pf_rd_r=DFF2CG6VXCQM0CDGH76R&psc=1&qid=1631896467&sr=1-1-f0029781-b79b-4b60-9cb0-eeda4dea34d6