Galmond10: need advice

[Galmond10]

I have been reading this forum for over a week and I need ADVISE!

 

Let me introduce myself and give some background information.  I am trying to be brief, so please feel free to ask questions.

 

Seven years ago I was diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder (GAD).  After trying several antidepressants, Cymbalta seemed to help me dramatically after the start-up symptoms passed.  Over a period of almost six years my prescription was gradually increased to the point I went out of my mind and could not take it anymore.

 

I went to a treatment center where I abruptly discontinued Cymbalta (1 year ago) and roller-coasted thru almost every antidepressant there is with no joy.  I took a genetics test that revealed Pristiq was one of the few antidepressants my body metabolizes as intended.  I took 50mg per day for a month and then tapered to zero in 14 days.  This was 2 months and a week ago.  It did relieve the pain and anguish, but gave me a multitude of new undesirable symptoms.

My current symptoms are:  Vertigo for the last 7 weeks, Fibromyalgia type writhing pain since discontinuing Cymbalta (1 year), emotional distress, daily fits of anger and rage, and insomnia.  I have been thru a million tests and have tried everything doctors have prescribed including Valium and high doses of Aleve which made my Peptic Ulcer flair up.

 

I tried Tramadol with Acetaminophen two days last week which gave me some relief from both the Vertigo and pain.  I know it works similar to antidepressants, so am cautious to continue taking.  I have also been taking a regimen of amino acids and B vitamins for 2 weeks with no improvement and possibly worse conditions.

 

After reading Mr. Anxious thread I am thinking of either reinstating Pristiq and tapering, or giving Tramadol a go and tapering off it.  Please give me some insight.

[mammaP]

Hi Galmond, welcome to SA.  First, my advice is do NOT use tramadol! I am tapering it and it is even harder than effexor. It will take me 14 years to tapoer at the rate I am going. Because it is both an opiate AND an antidepressant there are 2 withdrawals rolled into one nightmare. There are more deaths from tramadol than heroin, and taking too much can be fatal it doesn't even have to be a deliberate overdose, the maximum prescribed dose taken over a period of time can cause liver damage. Google it, but do not google the medical sites where they prescribe it. Look for tramadol side effects, withdrawal and deaths. 

 

B vitamins can worsen symptoms, they can be activating in a way that is not good. The only supplements we universally recommend are fish oil and magnesium, many of us are helped by them. If you try them start low and one at a time. 

Magnesium

Fish oil

The pristiq that was prescribed would have been too high a dose for someone in withdrawal but it is interesting that it helped some of the symptoms. We recommend reinstating very tiny doses because the nervous system becomes sensitised to the drugs and adverse reactions are common when reinstating normal doses as you discovered with pristiq. It is very difficult to get a tiny dose of pristiq because they are only available in tablets that can't be made into a liquid.

 

Venlafaxine is the sister drug to pristiq, which is desvenlafaxine. This could be used to reinstate a very tiny dose because it is available in  capsules with beads inside You would need to ask the pharnacy for the one with hundreds of beads. There are many denerics that have differing numbers. Some have 200 to 75mg, others have 75 to 75mg, some have 2 to 4 mini pills inside so it is important to get one with hundreds so you can get the small dose and then taper it. I have tapered it successfully.  Just 4 of the very tiny beads could be enough to ease withdrawal. that is around 1mg. Pristiq is much stronger which is why 0.5 is recommended there. It would be better than tramadol! 

Tapering effexor

 

Then there is the option of riding it out, which is what we would advise after a failed reinstatement. Withdrawal is painful but is temporary and does get better. It can take a long, long time but people learn to live with and cope with it. Healing typically comes in windows and waves, there may be some good days and bad ones. Gradually the good ones outnumber the bad ones. Windows and waves

We have many success stories from people who have recovered. 

It is important to take good care of yourself, eat good fresh food, avoid stress and have a good sleep routine. 

This topic contains links to various topics on different symptoms and how people cope with them. 

Important topics on symptoms

 

We ask all our members to fill in their signature with their drug and taper history, we need the drugs, doses and start and stop dates. For the most recent we need the doses too. How to create a signature

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by mammaP
typo

[Galmond10]

Today I would like to see if I could get some insight or opinions on two questions that i have. First has anyone tried and or had success with acupuncture treatments for there withdrawal symptoms or re building of there CNS. Seconcd can anyone tell me when they were able to go back to work or did you never stop going to work. Just curious cause I have been out of work for 16 months witch has felt like a eternaty.i have no shared my full story on here witch I can do if anyone is interested but I will warn you it's long and complex. Thanks ahead for any replys.

[Galmond10]

MammaP thank you for your advice and opinions.

[ChessieCat]

9 hours ago, Galmond said:

First has anyone tried and or had success with acupuncture treatments for there withdrawal symptoms or re building of there CNS.

 

There are many existing topics on this site.  Either use the site search function or use a search engine and add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.  acupuncture

 

9 hours ago, Galmond said:

Seconcd can anyone tell me when they were able to go back to work or did you never stop going to work.

 

Search survivingantidepressants.org job and survivingantidepressants.org work

 

[Galmond10]

MammaP 

 

If I was going to reinstate the pristiq now that I've been off for two in a half months would 25mg be what you recommend? My situation is rather complex but the symptoms I suffer from are mostly chronic body pain basically identical to fibromyalgia. The crazy part is I never had this until I started coming of cymbalta 1 year ago witch was done cold turkey by a doctor in a treatment facility. Big mistake I know now. But I wasn't getting better not had I found this site so I tried pristiq. And it did relieve some of my symptoms but gave me some unwanted side effects too. So I stopped taking 50mg after 1 month and tapered for two weeks, that was 2 1/2 months ago. I can't sleep because of the pain and I can barely function during the day because I'm so sleep deprived. If you know anyone on this site other than yourself that might have some advice or has knowledge on pristiq and reinstatement of it. All the help and knowledge I can get would be much appreciated.

[ChessieCat]

So that we are better able to offer suggestions, please create your drug signature.  Details of ALL drugs for the last 2 years, summary (year only will do) for anything older.  Thank you.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

NO symptoms, NO diagnoses.  Just:

 

Date, drug, dose

Date, drug, dose

etc.

Edited August 11, 2018 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

I've asked the other mods for their thoughts.

[Galmond10]

Cheesiescat 

First and foremost thank you for your reply. My history is long and complex. I will do my best to keep it brief and give you all the required info. 

 

First I was on cymbalta for six years for GAD. Sixteen months ago it stopped working and my symptoms came back worse than before the med. Being not as educated as i am today i listen to my doctor and went threw about 3 other Ads that made me worse. So my family put me in a treatment facility where they pulled me off cymbalta cold turkey. I stayed off for two months and couldnt handle life so i was put back in treatment facility where i was put on effexor. I was on it for two months and ending it by January this because it made me sicker. After that I tried a med called nortryptaline for five days then stopped. Then tried pristiq for 1 month at 50mg the tapered for two weeks. My biggest symptom that I deal with and have since the day I came off cymbalta is fibromyalgia pain. I also have developed extreme vertigo about 6-7 weeks ago after stopping pristiq. I have had and gone threw almost every withdrawal symptom at some point or another. But insomnia and the others I mentioned are my biggest issue to date. I do currently take about 25 mg of seroquel to help me sleep it used to help rather well but not so much lately. I've only been using it about six months. I do appear to be rather sensitive to many supplements at this point in my recovery. So I do take this sites advice when it comes to that. Thanks ahead for reading.

[Altostrata]

Hello, Galmond.

 

Did Pristiq ever eliminate the withdrawal symptoms you had from going off Cymbalta so quickly?

 

Quote

Over a period of almost six years my prescription was gradually increased to the point I went out of my mind and could not take it anymore.

 

How much Cymbalta were you taking at the end? Why was your prescription increased to that point? Did you have side effects from Cymbalta as the prescription increased? What do you mean "I went out of my mind"?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature

 

[Galmond10]

I will answer your questions in order.

 

Pristiq only slightly helped a few issuses which is at I stopped it after a month. I felt it wasn't worth it.

I was taking 60mg cymbalta at the end of six years. My dosage was increased twice over six years. I started at 30mg and it was very helpful. After 1-2 years it stopped being effective so I went to 40mg. Then in a nother 1-2 years I went to 60mg for the same reason. I did not have many side effects at first. The ones that were very noticeable was vivid dreams and sweating profusely. As time went bye I noticed many more as the dosage was raised there are a lot to list. But i push them aside because I was still living a decent life and not to mention I was uneducated about all this at the time. When I said I went out of mind I mean my anxiety that I had before the cymbalta came back 10x worse and wasn't getting better no matter what my doctor threw at it. Anxiety was the reason my doctor put me on cymbalta. I have never suffered from depression. If I left out any info just let me know.

[mammaP]

On 8/7/2018 at 5:26 PM, Galmond said:

I took a genetics test that revealed Pristiq was one of the few antidepressants my body metabolizes as intended.  I took 50mg per day for a month and then tapered to zero in 14 days.  This was 2 months and a week ago.  It did relieve the pain and anguish,

Hi Galmond, I am sorry I did not answer your question, I was away for the weekend.  Because you had said that the pristiq had helped the pain and anguish, but had side effects that would have been because the dose was very high. 

 

On 8/11/2018 at 6:12 PM, Galmond said:

I can't sleep because of the pain and I can barely function during the day because I'm so sleep deprived.

It helped the pain so you were able to sleep. 

On 8/8/2018 at 8:11 PM, mammaP said:

We recommend reinstating very tiny doses because the nervous system becomes sensitised to the drugs and adverse reactions are common when reinstating normal doses as you discovered with pristiq. It is very difficult to get a tiny dose of pristiq because they are only available in tablets that can't be made into a liquid.

 

On 8/8/2018 at 8:11 PM, mammaP said:

Venlafaxine is the sister drug to pristiq, which is desvenlafaxine. This could be used to reinstate a very tiny dose because it is available in  capsules with beads inside You would need to ask the pharnacy for the one with hundreds of beads. There are many denerics that have differing numbers. Some have 200 to 75mg, others have 75 to 75mg, some have 2 to 4 mini pills inside so it is important to get one with hundreds so you can get the small dose and then taper it. I have tapered it successfully.  Just 4 of the very tiny beads could be enough to ease withdrawal. that is around 1mg. Pristiq is much stronger which is why 0.5 is recommended.

25mg of pristiq will be far too high, we recommend very very tiny doses to start when reinstating, and pristiq cannot be made into a dose so tiny which is why I mentioned venlafaxine. It is a sister drug to pristiq (desvenlafaxine) and can be tapered by counting the beads. 

On 8/12/2018 at 12:28 AM, Galmond said:

My history is long and complex. I will do my best to keep it brief and give you all the required info. 

We actually need this history, especially the drugs and doses over the years. The more drugs that have been taken the more unstable the nervous system becomes. Please fill out your signature for us, we really need that information. 

[Altostrata]

Okay, as Pristiq really wasn't very helpful for the post-Cymbalta symptoms, which probably were withdrawal symptoms from Cymbalta.

 

Let's get away from the Pristiq-Effexor family and get back to Cymbalta.

 

Clearly, you were able to metabolize Cymbalta at a low dose. It could be that higher doses were too much for your liver metabolism, and you experienced what amounted to an overdose.

 

Do you have any Cymbalta left? I would try 5 beads out of the Cymbalta capsule. Don't chew, swallow them whole with water.

[Galmond10]

Alto

 

Thanks for your advice.

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, Galmond said:

Just wondering if anyone has experienced pain as a main symptom or as a long term symptom?

 

I have been off cymbalta for 13 months today and one of my most noticeable symptoms has been pain for me . And the pain is predominantly in my legs. It usually ranges in my calves and meaty part of my thighs front and back. The pain started immediately after the first drop in my taper and has not gone away. 

 

I want to add I never had pain before I took the cymbalta or took cymbalta for pain.

 

I have lived my life on a heating pad and aspercreme which is is a lidocaine creme from CVS for a year now. Just hoping this might catch someone's eye and they might have some tips on what is the cause and things that could help. Thanks to all in advance.

 

I've merged your new topic with an existing topic which you can find here: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17848-body-aches-and-pain/

 

There is also this topic:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/7713-non-drug-techniques-for-dealing-with-body-pain/

 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by ChessieCat

[Galmond10]

Was wondering if anyone has a idea or answer to why pain or for my sake chronic body pain is associated with withdrawls? Any so you know i never had pain before or took ADs for pain. Any insight would be appreciated.

[ChessieCat]

This might help.  Remember that the brain is the control centre or CPU (central processing unit) for the whole body.  If one thing is changed then there can be a domino effect.

 

what-is-happening-in-your-brain

[Galmond10]

Thanks for the input. I've read that piece several times it's good.

[Galmond10]

Can anyone shed some light on why body pain or nerve pain can be a withdrawal symptom? I've been in pain for 15 months and it won't seem to go away. Any tips or advice would be appreciated.

[ChessieCat]

On 8/13/2018 at 7:19 AM, Galmond said:

Great question. I hope someone has some advice im in the same boat.

 

The above quote is from the Testosterone Therapy topic.

 

Are you getting testosterone therapy?  If yes, I suggest that you check out the side effects as your body and nerve pain may be caused by that.

[Galmond10]

I'm not on any hormone therapy.

[Galmond10]

I'm looking for a little insight on time frames. I've been cymbalta free for 18 months and pristiq free for about 7 months and I still don't seem to getting but one window a month. Is that normal?  I feel like each month I should be getting a little better but I think I'm get to getting worse.  I feel dying most days. My body just dosent seem to want to kick in gear. What are the usual time frames most people see improvements? 

[ChessieCat]

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

[Galmond10]

I'm 8 months from last dose of meds. My waves seem to get worse every time around the one I'm on at the mom had been going for 3 weeks and it's so bad I just want to die. Is this typical?  I bought the waves where suppose to get easier and shorter. Mine seem to be getting worse. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

[ChessieCat]

Please click on the link and read the entire post.  Extract from It doesn’t end at “0”

 

On 5/22/2018 at 5:12 AM, brassmonkey said:

What we have seen is that most people will still be symptomatic for the first year or so after jumping off. These symptoms will follow the typical windows and wave pattern with the bonus that the windows will be better and last longer and in general the waves will decrease in severity and length.

 

There is one big exception to this pattern.  This is referred to as the “ten-month wave”, because it typically hits during month ten.  In reality it can hit any time between seven and twelve months, but ten months is the most common. 

 

[Galmond10]

Thanks for the response. I've read everything you you said and linked. It seems like I always get the same responses someone quoting something or sending me a link. Where are all the opinions from people or real life experiences or encounters?

[Galmond10]

22 months cold turkey from cymbalta

 

I am 22 months into cold turkey from cymbalta. I am still experiencing debilitating waves. Can anyone share there stories or information on my situation. All questions are welcomed.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Galmond10
moved from tapering, to introduction, added title

[manymoretodays]

Hi Galmond, @Galmond,

merged new topic back here.

Are you still on the tramadol or any other medications?

How long have you been in this wave?

 

I experienced a wave right around 2 years off all meds.  It was, perhaps less intense than some of the earlier ones, so that was good.  Or, maybe I was better equipped with my non-drug coping practices.  In retrospect, it was harsh.  It lasted a couple of months, with varying symptoms.  I generally, now, can function a bit better too, through waves.  And then I got another one, wave, prior to 3 years off all medications......I sure hope that was the last one.

The Waves and Windows pattern of Stabilization

 

So.....it is not real unusual to experience some waves, 22 months out.

Describe some of your symptoms?  Debilitating doesn't sound fun.

When was your last window?

 

We've got lots of non-drug coping tools in Symptoms and Self Care forum, and so, take a look over there too.

 

And hey, welcome back, you have not been around for awhile.  And hoping you'll get some additional responses right here too. 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by manymoretodays
removed link that has already been given

[Galmond10]

I'm very curious as to why my posts keep getting put under my original post. That's why I don't post anything. I wanted to start something new and hopefully attract new people and information but I guess this is pointless.

[Galmond10]

And to answer your questions. I have never been on tramadol. I'm clean of all meds for 22 months. My waves are hard to judge but they seem to last anywhere from a 1 month to 2. My symptoms are many but body pain is my worst. 

[mstimc]

Hi Galmond.  As you may have seen from other threads, body aches are a fairly common manifestation of withdrawal.  As others have said, the over-sensitization of your nervous system amplifies everything you feel.  When I was going though it, I used to say anxiety will fund your body's weakest point and exploit it.  The sensations will decrease as you come out of your wave.

[Galmond10]

20 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Hi Galmond.  As you may have seen from other threads, body aches are a fairly common manifestation of withdrawal.  As others have said, the over-sensitization of your nervous system amplifies everything you feel.  When I was going though it, I used to say anxiety will fund your body's weakest point and exploit it.  The sensations will decrease as you come out of your wave.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm aware of what most people know or say about waves and my symptoms  I'm really looking for information on people that have cold turkey. And there story of recovery. Or a story of someone they know.

[manymoretodays]

5 hours ago, Galmond said:

I'm very curious as to why my posts keep getting put under my original post. That's why I don't post anything. I wanted to start something new and hopefully attract new people and information but I guess this is pointless.

 

Hi Galmond,

You posted a new topic in the tapering forum. 

On 3/13/2020 at 12:32 PM, Galmond said:

22 months cold turkey from cymbalta

 

I am 22 months into cold turkey from cymbalta. I am still experiencing debilitating waves. Can anyone share there stories or information on my situation. All questions are welcomed.

 

Members introductions and questions around their specifics, generally go in their topic in the Introductions forum.  If you want to start a topic in tapering, it's best to do a search in tapering and see if a similar topic has been started.  And I did not really feel that your new topic was pertaining to tapering per se.

More about your symptoms and looking for similarities.  So put it back here, in your topic.  I tried to share a bit of my experience, as well as find out a bit more about your specifics, which are here, mainly, in your introduction.

I did see some usage of tramadol, mentioned, in one of your first posts.  I'll remove the tag now.

 

We try to keep the site fairly organized this way.

 

Nothing is pointless.  You might attract others right here. 

This is your introduction topic, your introduction to the community and may be the best place for you to post to attract others.  Often other members, post on other members Introduction topics to support and share stories a bit, as well as useful coping strategies..  You are also welcome to post on other topics in other forums too.  You can search for topics within any particular forum, from a search box, at the top right, to see if there is already an existing topic, similar to what you want to post.

 

I just searched from my main browser, survivingantidepressants.org cold turkey stories and this topic came right up:

Cold turkey or rapid taper success stories

you might want to add to that discussion

 

Again, I cold turkeyed or nearly cold turkeyed off many many meds before coming here.  Finally tapered off my last 2.  Doing really well at present.   I consider myself pretty recovered.  I do wish to get my Success Story written and posted soon.  I don't know why I put it off.  Surely I'll post it by May of 2020.  As I arrived here back in May, 2015.  So....it's definitely time. 

 

Look at some of the other Success stories too.  That link will take you to that forum, and then you'll also see that forum, on your Home page screen, towards the bottom.

 

I do a fair amount of physical exercise now, still utilize epsom salt baths from time to time, work and play pretty normally, and take a few supplements.  Not a whole lot of WD symptoms at all right now, but like I said......I did get wavish for a few months last fall.

 

Best to you,

L, P, H, and R,

mmt

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Galmond10]

Was wondering does anyone have information or know someone that may have tried stem cell therapy to help rebuild there CNS after as withdrawal?

[Galmond10]

I don't seem to get many responses if any but here goes. Does anyone know or have information about vertigo as a withdrawal symptom. I've had vertigo for 2 years now and I'm just wondering if there is anything I can do to make it heal faster. Any info would be appreciated.

[Altostrata]

What is your current daily symptom pattern? Are you taking any drugs or supplements? Getting regular gentle exercise? How's your sleep?

 

Looking back over the last 6 months, how has your symptom pattern changed?

 

mammaP gave you excellent advice in 2018, by the way:

On 8/8/2018 at 12:11 PM, mammaP said:

Venlafaxine is the sister drug to pristiq, which is desvenlafaxine. This could be used to reinstate a very tiny dose because it is available in  capsules with beads inside You would need to ask the pharnacy for the one with hundreds of beads. There are many denerics that have differing numbers. Some have 200 to 75mg, others have 75 to 75mg, some have 2 to 4 mini pills inside so it is important to get one with hundreds so you can get the small dose and then taper it. I have tapered it successfully.  Just 4 of the very tiny beads could be enough to ease withdrawal. that is around 1mg. Pristiq is much stronger which is why 0.5 is recommended there. It would be better than tramadol! 

Tapering effexor