Asta: Cipralex

[Asta]

@Altostrata

@ChessieCat

@Shep

@brassmonkey

@Songbird

@Gridley

 

Can someone from moderators or members to comment this? Maybe someon knows what it is?

One of main symptoms all the time is arduous sense under my chest (picture 1), wich I call anxious, because I don't know how to name it. With a time I started to doubt my self if I am right , is it anxious feeling, because now sometimes there is a pain, itching, it is very sensitive when I lightly touch that place and symptoms are getting stronger. It felt like engine is going on before, it was really an'noying... Now, it is like froze and some mild scratching and it stays almost all the time with small brakes. This feeling started moving around in my body from January (pictures 2,3,4) and it is easier to stand for me. The feeling started traveling in my body from picture 2 to 3, 4 and came back to picture 1. It is traveling in my body to those different places thru the day everyday now.

Can it be something connected with neurological? Maybe I should see a neurologist? Maybe some procedures can help with this? Or the time is only one answer?

[Asta]

01/05  

9.30 pm take Trazadone 33.3 mg 

5 am - low bone pain.

6.20 am - 9 pm - feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low with interruptions).

8.40 am - very low internal hands shaking (short time).

9 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

11 am - very low internal hands shaking (short time).

1.40 pm - very low ear and throat pain, very low nervousness (short time).

3.30 pm - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

7.10 pm - very low ear and throat pain (short time).

SLEPT FOR ABOUT 7 AND HALF HOURS.       

 

 

02/05 

9.30 pm take Trazadone 33.3 mg 

At night feeling like anxiety begins right now (very low short time).

6 am - low nousea, low bone pain.

6 am - 9 pm - feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low with interruptions).

7 am - very low internal hands shaking (short time).

7 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

4.30 pm - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

5 pm - take hemp seed oil. 

10.10 pm - low bone pain.

SLEPT FOR ABOUT 5 AND HALF HOURS.       

 

03/05

9.30 pm take Trazadone 33.3 mg 

5 am - 9 pm - feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low with interruptions).

7 am - low bone pain.

8.30 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

8.50 am - very low internal hands shaking (short time).

11 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

11.20 am - low bone pain.

12.10 pm - very low internal hands shaking (short time).

8 pm - take hemp seed oil.

SLEPT FOR ABOUT 8 HOURS.     

 

04/05 

9.30 pm take Trazadone 33.3 mg 

At night feeling like anxiety begins right now (very low short time), bone pain.

6 am - 8 pm - feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low with interruptions).

8.10 am - very low internal hands shaking (short time).

10.10 am - take magnesium.

11 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

11.15 am - very low fear, very low internal hands shaking (short time).

11.50 am - 1.30 pm - nervousness.

7 pm - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

SLEPT FOR ABOUT 6 AND HALF HOURS.        

[Asta]

I visited a neurologist today because off uncomfortable and painful feeling under my chest. I didn't say anything about Trazadone and Ciraplex I am using. I wanted non judgmental opinion. It is nerve sensitive by doctors opinion. Can't say what is exactly. It is little bit swollen under the chest and is very sensitive when I lightly touch that. It is painful when I change a body position. I got referred for MRA scan, but I don't know if I need it, it's not going to show my nerves. Also I got recommended for test for Lyme disease. I don't know if I should do the test also. I got prescription for Gabapentini, because by doctors opinion is going to help me with that kind of pain.

[Leo1983]

Is that Gabapentin?

 

if so it works on GABA receptors abit like Benzos. its addictive and again can be difficult to stop.

[Asta]

Yes, I read about it. It is very scary medication with a many bad side effects.

300 mg two times per day.

[Leo1983]

me personally i would SAFELY get off ALL your medication and see how you recover. 

 

is the pain so bad to start that drug?

[Asta]

I just informing what a doctor sad. I definitely not going to take it. Telling the truth, I didn't expect different answer from the doctor. I trusted a doctor one time before and got two antidepressants for a headache.

[Asta]

Not doctors, but time will heal us.

[Leo1983]

Hopefully yes. 

[Asta]

05/05 

9.30 pm take Trazadone 33.3 mg

5 am - 9 pm - feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low with interruptions). 

9 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

9.20 am - very low internal hands shaking (short time).

1 pm - take hemp seed oil.

2 pm - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

SLEPT FOR ABOUT 8 HOURS.         

 

06/05 

9.30 pm take Trazadone 33.3 mg

At night bone pain, feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low).

6.40 am - 9 pm - feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low with interruptions). 

9 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

2 pm - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

2.30 pm - take hemp seed oil.

5.30 pm - very low nervousness (20 min).

SLEPT FOR ABOUT 6 AND HALF HOURS.      

 

07/05 

9.30 pm take Trazadone 33.3 mg

5.40 am - very low bone pain.

5.40 am - 10 pm - feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low with interruptions). 

7 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

7.35 am - very low internal hands shaking (short time).

2 pm - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

2.30 pm - take hemp seed oil.

7.20 pm - I feel strange, ear and throat pain (very short time).

SLEPT FOR ABOUT 7 HOURS.      

 

08/05 

9.30 pm take Trazadone 33.3 mg

5.50 am - very low bone pain.

5.50 am - 8 pm - feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low with interruptions). 

7.30 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

7.40 am - very low internal hands shaking (short time).

2.10 pm - very low nervousness.

2.50 pm - take hemp seed oil.

3 pm -  apply on the skin Ginger oil.

3 pm - I feel strange, very low nervousness.

3.30 pm - ear and throat pain, I feel cold (very short time).

5 pm - 8 pm - very low nervousness, I feel strange.

SLEPT FOR ABOUT 7 HOURS.      

 

09/05 

9.30 pm take Trazadone 33.3 mg

At night bone pain, feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low).

5 am - very low bone pain.

5 am - 9 pm - feeling like anxiety begins right now (very very low with interruptions). 

8 am - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

7.50 am - 9 am -  low head pressure, nausea, I feel strange.

11.30 am  6 pm - I feel strange, emotional instability (with interruptions).

2 pm - apply on the skin Ginger oil.

2.30 pm - take hemp seed oil.

SLEPT FOR ABOUT 5 AND HALF HOURS.      

  

[Mirthazard]

Leo where did you heard that gabapentin touches GABA receptors? It has nothing to do with benzos. 

[Leo1983]

Gabapentin works in the brain and nervous system. it interferes with activity of neurotransmitters in the brain and nervous system, mainly GABA and glutamate

 

I never said it was a benzo. It works pretty similar and can be very hard to stop.

[Leo1983]

Also like antidepressants, they dont know how it works, it has endless side effects, is difficult to stop.... 

 

That would be enough for me. 

[Mirthazard]

I had no side effects... ADS are known to touch receptors directly and that is so worse like benzos, in fact i think ADS are even worst since they touch Multiple receptors directly, benzos only Touch GABA receptors but that doesnt make it better. 

[Leo1983]

Millions did not have side effects from Antidepressants either.

 

Im not saying dont take it! im pointing out what complications they could cause. Some people have hell to stop it  

 

 

[Mirthazard]

Yes i know and i agreed. But everyone is different, and scaring people about taking it could be the wrong approach.  Many people take gabapentin for pain, but few take benzos for pain. If the doctor sugested gabapentin it could be helpfull. It was and is for me. Of course the best is to aid pain in other healthy ways. This is the first everyone has to try. But if after endless attempts with supplements, exercises and other ways are done without success, there are other ways, but no matter what, researching always after going another routeis better.  Some people want to live in pain others want to have some relief, i know i can suffer in the future and have withdrawals, but for now i have to do something. Not sugesting to add more drugs. But has you know some people here even used lamictal to aid in ad withdrawal.

[brassmonkey]

Both gabapentin and benzos are calcium channel blockers and are therefore alike. Gabapentin only affects the calcium channel receptors, but does not affect the GABA or opioid receptors. Where as benzos affect all three types of receptors.

 

Gabapentin is an antiseizure medication that can be very hard to get off of.

 

SA does not advocate the use of any prescription drug to reduce the symptoms of withdrawal, or the fine tuning of any individuals "cocktail" of drugs.  This conversation is bordering on being about which drug is better for me to take to alleviate my symptoms and needs to be stopped.

[intothewoods]

On 5/7/2019 at 10:33 AM, Asta said:

I trusted a doctor one time before and got two antidepressants for a headache.

 

Love this Asta. With your permission and due credit, I may add it to the end of my signature. Then humor shall prevail in this crazy withdrawal-sphere of ours. 🤣

[Leo1983]

Thank you Brassmonkey for confirming this. I guessed i was sort of close, with 15 year of nursing experience. 

 

I have seen it with my own eyes wd from Gabapentin. 

 

I was not given advice to take or not to take. I was given the facts and my own experience. 

 

Thanks

 

Leo.

[Mirthazard]

The fact that benzos are calcium channel blockers is not for itself the reazon for withdrawal problems, magnesium is also a calcium channel blocker. And the problem is that magnesium it self can cause withdrawal for some, after prolonged use, even melatonin. Melatonin or magnesium can be as bad as recommending a drug, depending on the person, its a shoot in the dark, like a drug. Its true that most people dont have withdrawals from magnesium or melatonin, but there are many people who have. I can give many sources demonstrating this.

 

Brassmonkey, i dont know the source of Asta chest pain, do you?

is it withdrawal? Is it some symptom that has nothing to do with withdrawal? What would you recommend, if we dont really know the source of the problem?

 

it could not be about withdrawal symptoms at all, or it can, who are we to judge? it could be really about pain only, pain can and must be addressed for many people. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mirthazard]

Just for the record even melatonin is a calcium channel blocker. I cannot even imagine the tons of suplemments wish block calcium channels. 

 

 

[Leo1983]

Mirthazard  you appear very defensive about peoples views and the evidence. 

 

Is this due to your choice to use other drugs to remedy your withdrawal? also manage your pain?. 

 

i am going to stop my part in this discussion now. i was only pointing out the facts.

 

Take care and good luck in your wd journey.

[Mirthazard]

If i upset you or anyone else then sorry for that. Just wanted to insist that 

sometimes the best is to allow the person itself reach its own conclusion about something by encouraging researching or to be more open with doctors and ask them more questions. Give them the benefit of doubt. There is evidence of addiction and dependence with gabapentin but there is also evidence for no addiction or dependence. Benzos are addictive even more and its very hard to find evidence for the opposite. Gabapentin or Lyrica have both evidence for both sides and its not hard to find. In fact, if Asta or everyone else can avoid these junks then the better, but for me and many more people its helping. Trust me, i tried everything, now i am on gabapentin per doctors advice, and it minimized my suffering. I researched and tried.

 

You are right, gabapentin is aiding my withdrawal and pain and i know i will suffer in the future for it. That doesnt mean gabapentin is only a drug to add for withdrawal. It works for epilepsy and many people have to take it, being addictive or not. This is not a suggestion to use it, it can go wrong, it can go fine, people are responsible for their own decisions, of course if people can stay away from it and cope, the better. I am sure everyone will value, including me, your and Brassmonkeys warning  about gabapentin addiction, but we need to recognize everybody reacts differently to drugs, supplements or whatever. Just a tought and my one cent. Peace.

 

[brassmonkey]

Okay folks, we've hijacked Asta's thread for long enough, it's time to drop the subject.

[Asta]

Before taking medication I never had any of these symptoms. I believe that this pain, discomfort, and tiring feeling under my chest is an abstinence symptom. I think the medication caused this symptom and messed up my body. In this area its not just discomfort, but there is a swelling and small bumps. I understand time is the best doctor, but I would really want to know what this is. Maybe it’s organ failure, nerve disorder (similar to neuralgia), blood flow disorder, lymph. I believe if I knew what it was I could somewhat help myself with natural products or procedures. Right now I am in Italy so maybe I can find naturopathy because I really do not trust traditional medication anymore. Right after I stopped taking medication and my main problem is the tiring feeling. The Escitalopram was prescribed for my headaches, which started after my surgery. Additionally I was prescribed Trazadone for insomnia, which started from taking Escitalopram. I do not trust doctors anymore at all and Gabapentin would probably cause me more problems. I believe from a doctors perspective they are not responsible for prescribing this kind of medication when they do not know what it’s for. I was asking the doctor if there could be addiction from Gabapentin and they said definitely no, you can be calm. They always say ask your doctor and yes, I did every step of the way and I trusted them, but I ended up in hell. If only I would of known about all this poison like I do now. My head does not hurt anymore, but the head pain I had was nothing compared to what I experienced and what I am experiencing now.

[Asta]

Now Im on 25 mg tablets and 2 mg liquid. My next move will be to take only liquid, because it will be 24,3 mg. Do you think I gona need time to get use to liquid?

[Leo1983]

Hey how you doing?

[Asta]

Hi! Small steps forward. How are you Lee?

[Leo1983]

Hi.

 

Not too bad.

 

Had a double hernia operation yesterday. They put me to sleep. I was fine when i woke up. 

 

Im on opiates for pain but i need them short term. 

 

Im back home now and resting up. 

 

Again same as you really small steps. Im alot better now than i was. Just looking forward to ZERO wd.

[ChessieCat]

When changing form of a drug it is gentler on the nervous system if you do a cross over.  Do not make a reduction at the same time as you do the cross over.  The usual way to do this is to do each combination for 3-7 days, 3/4 + 1/4, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 + 3/4.

 

It doesn't have to be exactly like the above.  If you can cut your tablet into 1/2s and 1/4s and do:

 

Please check the calculations

 

3/4 tablet (18.75mg) and 8.25mg liquid = 27mg

 

1/2 tablet (12.5mg) and 14.5mg liquid = 27mg

 

1/4 tablet (6.25mg) and 20.75mg liquid = 27mg

[Asta]

@ChessieCat

Thank you for your reply. I can't divide tablet in to smaller dosage, I tried everything. But its not an accurate dosage. 25mg is half tablet, and even this dosage is hard to divide. I don't have any choice but start to take liquid - 27mg, then wait for a while and then cut to 24,3 mg. What do you think?

[Asta]

Serotonin and Anti-depressant Drug Alter the Gut’s Microbiota

https://www.technologynetworks.com/drug-discovery/news/serotonin-and-anti-depressant-drug-alter-the-guts-microbiota-323652?fbclid=IwAR3lZaQjKz6rcx0MtOVV8VRqBrm5rigJOcY-KV4DYDfJCasjvvWKQjtobys

 

Edited September 7 by ChessieCat
reduced font

[manymoretodays]

Hi Asta,

How are you faring now?  Weren't you doing liquid and tablet for awhile, already?  I thought perhaps you had transitioned over to just using liquid, at this point in your taper.

 

What are you on now with the Trazodone?  I see in your signature a dose in October, yet it's only September now.

You can update your signature here:  Account settings: signature

And do include the year somewhere.  e.g. 2019

 

Thanks Asta.  Good information above too, thanks for sharing.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Asta]

Hi,

Thank you for asking how I feel and sorry for not responding for a long time. 

I fixed the lowering medication information.

On July 17th I completely moved to liquid and felt a little more symptoms and eventually they decreased. I am moving forward with small steps. I believe, that I am slowly feeling better. If I compare it to the month of May, then I definitely feel better. The things that happened a year ago are scary to think about. So many horrible symptoms made me feel that I actually might die or go crazy. Now in the mornings I feel worse, but later in the day it gets better. I definitely cannot compare it to before though because it is a lot better now. I still need more time to feel completely better. There are also days where I feel worse, but they are not strong and short. It is very scary that I could get worse.

I keep feeling bad about myself that I am a user of these toxins and that I am giving money to these doctors, but I am happy that I found this website.

Next week I am traveling to a Sicilian island Panarea. I believe that good food and beautiful views will help me get better as well. 

[Asta]

I would like to do a hyperbaric oxygen procedures course. I am little bit afraid if it's not have a negative outcome to my health. What is your opinion? Should I try it or not?

[brassmonkey]

There is a lot of discussion on the subject, please do a site search to find the posts.  General consistence is that it is ineffective, expensive and causes a lot of rebound symptoms.