Gaebbi: reinstatement gone wrong?

[Gaebbi]

I'm sorry to be irritating but does anybody know what`s going on?

My Depression gets worse and worse.. did the Olanzapine stop working? Is this some kind of Poopout?

I was feeling much better after I left the hospital than I'm feeling now. My hunger is at baseline again, and it has been for about one and a half week.

I still get windows, but much less frequent and shorter than a few weeks ago..

I really don't know what's going on but I would be calmer if I knew

Thanks in advance!

[Altostrata]

On 11/9/2019 at 1:33 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Having this operation and taking drugs in connection with it increase the risk of further nervous system destabilization. Decision is up to you.

 

On 11/17/2019 at 10:31 AM, Gaebbi said:

Hey, time for update #18

I don‘t know if the operation destabilized me more. I was feeling worse starting around 2 days before my operation, and for about 5 days now I‘m experiencing strong anhedonia and mild depression. Also weird thoughts about my life, about death and so on.. what‘s my sense in life? What comes after death? Why don‘t I just die when I can‘t feel joy? I really have to tell myself that it‘s just withdrawal.

 

Honestly I don‘t think the operation did something to me, it‘s just another big wave I have to fight through.

and of course lying in bed and doing nothing else than watching youtube won‘t help me much, but I‘m able to walk again since today and will do more activities now.

I‘m pretty happy that the operation is over and I didn‘t postpone it. One more step to being healed!

I just hope that the big wave will end soon or at least my symptoms will change. Anhedonia and depression are one of the worst symptoms!

maybe I‘ll heal faster when I do some light sports again. I‘ll go to the fitness again next week.

 

so far with this week. Many greetings to you!

 

When was the last time you made drug changes? When you had the operation, did you take the fluoxetine and olanzapine on your regular schedule?

 

Have you been taking them on schedule since? Have you taken any other drugs since your operation?

 

We're just an online peer support forum, we can't fix post-operative symptoms or nervous system upsets from taking drugs irregularly.

[Gaebbi]

Hey Alto
I'm taking fluoxetine 10mg since September 24th and Olanzapine 5mg since Oktober 18th. Absolutely consistent. Didn't take any other meds except sometimes ibuprofen and diclofenac for my knee. Diclofenac I took from November 12th till November 19th, 50mg 3x a day.

I really don't know what's happening right now
 

[Gaebbi]

also Fishoil, about 2600-3000mgs of EPA + DHA per day for a few weeks now

[Altostrata]

You had major anesthesia for your knee operation, didn't you? Did you get pain drugs after the operation?

 

Please do not discount the potential effect of that operation.

[Gaebbi]

Yes it was full anesthesia. But the bad wave startet 2 days before, that's why I don't think it has something to do with the operation. But of course, I don't know..

I had about the same operation 4 months ago and it didn't do anything to my brain.

I didn't get any pain killers except diclofenac and ibuprofen

[Altostrata]

What has your sleep pattern been in the last week?

 

What do you mean by "depression"? Is it worse at any particular time of day?

 

When you throw a complication like major surgery into the mix, you might just have to ride it out -- it's beyond what we can help with.

[Gaebbi]

My sleep is ok. Very vivid dreams, but the olanzapine still helps me to fall and stay asleep!

 

With depression and mean some various symptoms. sometimes deep sadness, sometimes the feeling of being lonely, sometimes emptiness. It fluctuates. 2 days ago it was strong at about 11am until 3pm, then a window startet. Yesterday it was strong in the evening, from 6pm till 11pm. Today it was there since 12am and about an hour ago it got much stronger!
Right after the operation I had strong anhedonia for a few days

[Altostrata]

How much are you sleeping? What is your sleep pattern?

 

You may recall you've had a "depression" reaction to olanzapine from the start.

[Gaebbi]

I'm sleeping roundabout 10 hours, from 12am till 10am.

 

At first the olanzapine helped me much with my depression. It went completely away for about 2-3 weeks
 

So, what should I do now? Wait? Change something with the Olanzapine?

[Altostrata]

That's a lot of sleeping.

 

If you find the "depression", "emptiness" etc. to be too much, you might reduce olanzapine by 0.5mg, see if that helps. It may be your body doesn't need that much for sleep anymore.

[Gaebbi]

Alright thank you Alto.

I‘m a bit scared of further changes. I want to wait for another week, to see how my symptoms change.

if then my depression is still there I will decrease my dosage to 4.5mg.

I will give you an update in a week!

thanks for your time and effort!

 

[Gaebbi]

oh I'm remembering one more thing

For the operation I had to take an antibiotic (Cefazoline). Just for the record. I don't know if it triggered my symptoms

[Gaebbi]

I‘m so incredibly angry right now.. the depression gets worse every day, I‘m really suffering! I had to cry so many times the last days! Tears roll down my face while I‘m writing this! There was a small window where I felt completely normal for about an hour 2 days ago and since then it gets worse and worse and the suffering doesn‘t seem to end!

 

Every single time I didn‘t listen to you (Alto, mmt) I got worse and worse! I should have postponed my operation, just like you said! I thought I‘ll be fine since my last operation 4 months ago didn‘t do anything to my brain. I always think that I know what I‘m doing and a few days later I always get a kick right into my face! All of this could‘ve been avoided if I just increased my escitalopram dosage a bit right before I went to the hospital!

I know that those thoughts won‘t help me but I have to let this out!

I‘m in hell and nobody can tell me when I‘ll get better! Every single f*cking chance I made with the drugs made me so much worse and worse and worse and now I‘m at the bottom again!

I hate every single doc that did this to me! I hate that I always thought I knew everything better! I hate that I‘m suffering that much! I hate my life! The only thing keeping me alive is my mother and my best friend who are always there for me!

 

F*ck, This needs to end soon! I‘ve gone through so much **** and I really can‘t take much more of this!

[Gaebbi]

To the admins, that may be interesting for you. Or it isn't, I don't know.

I'm rating the severity of my symptoms everyday since my cold switch to prozac.

0=normal day, 10=the worst I can imagine.

I'll keep on tracking until I consider myself stabilized.

 

Maybe that might help people in similar siatuations to mine in the future.

[Altostrata]

As we have told you, your symptoms will very slowly and gradually alleviate, unless you do something to make them worse.

 

You seem to be impetuous and want to rush things along. Please stop doing that. There's no tweak that will instantly fix you. You need to be patient.

[Gaebbi]

I know Alto, I know.. I am always searching for the easy way out, but now there is none.

You telling me that the symptoms will alleviate helps me much! I have to trust you there.
I'm always worried that I can't stabilize on the drug cocktail I'm on now.

Guess that's also a typical withdrawal symptom. I'm not able to think clearly when in a wave!

But it's hard, since you see on my graphic, that my symptoms seem to get worse since my operation.

Today I forced myself to go out on the electrical bicycle from my mother (can't ride normal bikes with my knee) and even though it was cold as hell, it helped a bit.

I will keep you updated! Maybe tomorrow is a better day

[Altostrata]

Your graph shows a gradually declining severity of symptoms.

[Gaebbi]

yes Alto, I know, but it shows an upward trend since my operation and I'm scared that where I'm now is not the highest I will be in the following days / weeks

[Altostrata]

Did you calculate your average slope incorrectly?

 

Look, we told you the operation might cause an increase in symptoms. All you can do now is let your nervous system settle down. You need to forgive yourself for an error in judgement and stop harping on it. You need to work at being patient, it's not easy for most of us.

[Gaebbi]

Yes, it's incredibly hard being patient. But well, who am I telling this.. I know that what I have to go through is nothing compared to your story.
I try my best to get better as soon as possible.. and hopefully it won't take so long since I'm only 24.

I made it through about 8 months of acute benzo withdrawal and through 12 months of protracted benzo withdrawal. If I made it through this, I will manage, too, what I'm going through now. somehow.

Thanks for your clear words. I needed this!

[Gaebbi]

Alto, one hopefully last thing. I know that I'm irritating and am stealing your time and I'm so sorry!

The last 5 days it was always the same: my depression lifts after about 2 hours that I'm taking the Olanzapine (taking it at 9pm), then during the night everything is fine, and then at aroung 11am I'm getting extremely worse within a few seconds, and that feeling stays during the day. I've noticed that I'm nearly symptom free in the night since I'm taking the Olanzapine!

I just wondered if this could be because on 11th of November I changed the brand of the olanzapine from Zyprexa Velotab 5mgs to Heunet Olanzapine 2.5mgs (taking 2 of those). Both are orally dissolving tablets.

I just find it weird that I seem to be OK while the acute effect of Olanzapine is happening and exactly 14 hours after taking it I'm worse.

[Gaebbi]

Had one of the worst breakdowns ever today..

I really managed to stay calm until it just wasn‘t possible anymore. Layed in the arms of my best friend, crying like hell. Total helplessness.

I got a small window today in the morning for around 15 minutes.. why are the windows getting less frequent and shorter?? 
I‘m so done with this all. When does this absolute cruel hell end.. Please anybody, give me some strength if you can somehow.

[Altostrata]

Need to see your daily drug schedule and symptom pattern. Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. You can post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

 

Use this format:

 

Quote

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

No discussion of your symptoms until you post several days of notes as above.

 

Please consider whether an assumption that everything should be perfect for you might cause you to feel bad when it isn't.

[Gaebbi]

Yesterday

10am waking up, feeling fine

10:30am racing thoughts

11:00am depression started

12:00pm took 10mgs Fluoxetine.  went for a walk with my mother. Had a breakdown and could only cry

1:00pm couldn‘t eat anything my father made me

3:00pm went for a walk for about 45 minutes, still strong depression

4:00pm burning skin, akathisia + depression

5:00pm went for another walk, only about 10 minutes, still horrible depression

After that I only layed in bed and played gameboy to distract myself

9:00pm: took 5mg olanzapine

11:30pm: depression lifts a bit, fell asleep

 

[Gaebbi]

Today

9:15am woke up, feeling fine

9:45am racing thoughts

10:00am depression started

11:23am small window

11:38am window ended, depression came back

12:00pm took 10mgs fluoxetine

12:00pm feeling of loneliness started, still deep depression

1pm went out for an hour with the electric cycle of my mother. Depression still going strong

Layed in bed until 4pm

4:30pm went to my best friend

4:40pm derealisation + deep depression

5:30pm complete breakdown

 

[Gaebbi]

8pm called the hospital that i‘ve been to if they can give me some of the zyprexa tablets i was getting there. I really think that the generic doesn‘t so its job.
9pm took zyprexa velotab 5mg

10:30pm depression got a bit better

12am fell to sleep

7am woke up with a feeling of „oh god this can‘t be true“ and fear of getting psychotic

8am fell to sleep again

[Gaebbi]

9:15am woke up

9:30am deep depression started

9:50am small panic attack

10:18am depression gets even worse

10:30am breakdown

11:37am depression lifted a bit, but still pretty strong

12:00pm took fluoxetine 10mg

1:00pm depression extremely strong

2:18pm weakness in my arms

3:15pm depression lifted

4:15pm depression got worse again

6:00pm depression got worse

9:00pm took zyprexa velotab 5mg

10:48pm depression still horrible, feeling of dissociation grows

11:05pm feels like I‘m freaking out

2:12am woke up, deep depression, suicidal thoughts

2:45am fell back to sleep

 

 

[Gaebbi]

I’m suicidal and can‘t take any second longer. Please help me

[Gaebbi]

I think it‘s the escitalopram crash. Would a reinstatement of 0,2mg be a bad idea?

please I really need help!

[Gaebbi]

8:00am woke up with depression

Since 10:15am suicidal thoughts; thoughts that it is never gonna end and I‘m never going to leave this cycle of misery.

12:00pm took 10mg fluoxetine

It’s 8:15pm now and I had Horrible horrible depression the whole day.

Akathisia also grows.

Please tell me if theres anything I can do, I really can‘t take another day like this!

[Gaebbi]

9:00pm took 5mg olanzapine

11:30pm fell asleep
this was the worst day in my life. All I want is to die.

please tell me if I should consider a reinstatement of lexapro, and if yes, at which dosage. I think somewhere between 0,2 and 1mg?

or a complete switch back from prozac to lexapro?

I have no idea, please help me!

I need to change something, it‘s getting worse with every single day!

I‘m pretty sure it‘s the lexapro withdrawal hitting!

thank you in advance!

[Altostrata]

23 hours ago, Gaebbi said:

Since 10:15am suicidal thoughts; thoughts that it is never gonna end and I‘m never going to leave this cycle of misery.

 

Gaebbi, from the very start, you've had a tendency to dramatize your situation. The thoughts you describe above are not thoughts caused by a drug reaction. They are you working yourself up to more and more drama.

 

On 10/22/2019 at 11:29 AM, Altostrata said:

Your nervous system needs to settle down. Every time you make a drug change, it upsets your nervous system again. When you keep your drug schedule consistent, your nervous system will at least settle down to a recognizable pattern around it. If there are adverse effects of a drug, we would be able to see them in your daily symptom pattern.

 

When you panic or work yourself up, those negative emotions also upset your nervous system, hindering re-stabilization. We ask everyone here to work at staying calm, don't work against your nervous system settling down. The techniques you could learn to manage your symptoms will be valuable to you after you've recovered.

 

You are taking an antidepressant and an antipsychotic. Drug effects often make people feel strange, with often with deadening of emotions. You might call that "depression." That is how they "work."

 

What do you mean by akathisia?

 

Unfortunately, as an Internet forum, we cannot help with emergencies. Should you have a medical or psychiatric emergency, you must find face-to-face support in your area immediately. If you are truly serious about being suicidal, perhaps you should go to the hospital again.

 

In the US, please phone 911 for medical emergencies. Here is additional information For those who are feeling desperate or suicidal

[Gaebbi]

Alto, if it was from the meds then it would have come earlier.

My depression is not like you think of what it is

it is constant pain. It's not like I just don't feel joy anymore, it's more like a cramp in my stomach and constant pain. Just pain!
With akathisia I mean a feeling of burning on my skin and the urge to do something about it!

Look, those Symptoms startet around 2 days before my operation and since then became worse and worse everyday

Do you have any idea why it could be so incredibly bad?
I'm not dramatizing my Symptoms. I've been through so much and only say how bad it is when I really mean it.

I'm just so desperate and don't know what the heck is causing my problems!

I showed you my graph. You can see I'm not dramatizing anything! But the last two days were a 10 in severity!
 

[Altostrata]

If you are having an adverse drug reaction,  you are not supplying a sufficient amount of detail in your daily symptom notes for me to tell if your symptoms are better or worse at any time of day.

 

It's been only 3 weeks since you had a major operation November 12. You had a lot of drug changes just prior to the operation, that confounds your symptom pattern. The operation complicates it further. I cannot tell if anything that occurred afterward is a continuation of a prior symptom pattern.

 

As I explained to you prior to the operation, now I cannot tell whether you are having any kind of withdrawal symptoms (unlikely, since you had an initial good reaction to Prozac), an adverse reaction to the drugs you're taking (more likely), lingering adverse effects from the operation or antibiotic (also likely); or something else.

 

It is very unlikely you have developed a new psychiatric disorder since going off escilatopram, but you have always been impatient. As you want fast solutions, you might confer with your doctors again. We do not supply fast solutions here.

 

Please add the date of your operation to your signature.

[Gaebbi]

My symptoms are not better or worse during some time of the day. I really mean it when I say it's there the whole day. Last night I think I had something like a window when I woke up and depression was much lighter than it was during the day.

If it helps you, there were two times when I had depression as severe as now.

First was initially after I switched to Prozac. It stayed for about 3 days, then changed into other symptoms.

The second time was a week after I stopped taking Olanzapine. It went away 5 days after taking Olanzapine again.

 

Please tell me how it could be adverse drug effects. They should have come on earlier. It feels like the strongest withdrawal depression I can imagine!

Alto I need a solution. Do you say that waiting is an solution, even if it would be adverse drug effects? Would they also settle down?