Gaebbi: reinstatement gone wrong?

[Altostrata]

Not many people would describe depression as stomach cramp. Do you actually have physical pain or is your "I just don't feel joy anymore" sort of like a physical pain, but not really a physical pain?

 

As explained before, you're taking 2 psychiatric drugs which commonly cause emotional anesthesia.

 

57 minutes ago, Gaebbi said:

First was initially after I switched to Prozac. It stayed for about 3 days, then changed into other symptoms.

 

That was withdrawal from escilatopram.

 

57 minutes ago, Gaebbi said:

The second time was a week after I stopped taking Olanzapine. It went away 5 days after taking Olanzapine again.

 

That was withdrawal from olanzapine.

 

Not sure what this proves. You can get "depression" from a lot of different things. You want to add escilatopram? That makes sense, because your last drug adventure (with the surgery) was a whole 3 weeks ago. Time for drug change of the month!

[Gaebbi]

I really don't think you know what I mean with depression.

It's actual pain in my stomach. It's complete desperation. hopelessness.

I wouldn't say that it's extremely severe if it was just anhedonia or just don't feeling joy.

I'm constantly looking at the clock if time went by because I can't stand a single second.

Please do not think that it's just anhedonia. I know that anhedonia can be pretty severe, but I'm having so so much more!

So alright, I will stay at everything I'm taking right now and won't change anything. Then either I will make it or I will turn myself into the hospital again because I can't stand it anymore.

Let's see.

[JanCarol]

6 hours ago, Gaebbi said:

Alto, if it was from the meds then it would have come earlier.

Not necessarily.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9451-delayed-onset-of-withdrawal-symptoms/ 

 

There is a delay between when you quit a drug, and the time it takes to shake out ALL of the after effects.

There are levels of effects that kick in at 2-3 weeks, 45 days, 3 months, 6 months, and even 2 years.  The drugs change you - it takes time to change back.

 

See also: Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?  

 

I hope you see the sun today!

Edited December 3, 2019 by JanCarol

[Cocopuffz17]

I echo what Jancarol said... I felt awful during initial reduction. Great after being completely off and then bam hit like a freight train for a few months, roughly 4-5 months out. I am doing way better now! 

[Gaebbi]

Jancarol, that‘s what I said. Withdrawal from the escitalopram I stopped taking 10 weeks ago.

 

with „it should have come earlier“ I meant adverse effects from the drugs I‘m taking now!

[Gaebbi]

So, hello all, hey Alto

I have to say that I‘m sorry. I‘m having a window right now. Now it‘s me talking to you and not the withdrawal monster inside of me!

I see now how much I was bothering you with all my questions.

it was desperation in its full form. Like I never had before, or maybe while I was in hospital..

now in my window I see the truth. I have to wait. Theres nothing right now that can be done to heal me instantly.

I needed this so badly! The first time I feel completely free from all my withdrawal symptoms. I can‘t tell you how happy I am right now!

[Gaebbi]

so, it's been more than two weeks since my last post

sadly I didn't have another window since then. I had times when I was feeling a bit better, but that time when I felt completely normal only lasted for about 6 hours and I haven't felt it since then.

My depression got a bit better but it's still pretty severe. But it feels nothing like the depression I had after my benzo withdrawal. It feels much more aggressive.

It's like you (Alto) said in the waves and windows of stabilization - it's like going one step forward, then 5 steps back. then 2 steps forward and 4 steps back. And so on.

I told my chief I want to work again to distract myself, it's more like a therapy for me than real work. Only lying in bed makes me go nuts.

That's the hardest time I ever had to go through in my life. And hopefully there will never be a time as hard as this.

Tomorrow I will see a psychotherapist, maybe she can help me a bit.

greetings to all of you!

[Gaebbi]

small update

the psychotherapist was, sorry, crap.

Denied everything about an upset nervous system, ssri withdrawal, autonomic dysregulation and so on.

I know that's common, but it really let me down. Of course I won't go there again.

I'm slowly, very slowly, getting better. And I'm saying this while I'm in a pretty bad wave.

My windows aren't really windows. It's only feeling a bit better, but far away from being normal.

Don't know why there was a single window few weeks ago where I felt completely normal. Weird.

The worst of all is the feeling that I'm completely ripped apart from my old, normal life. I know it will come back, but being patient is so hard when you're living with symptoms 24/7 without a break.

[Gaebbi]

I‘m currently suffering the worst wave ever. It‘s worse than it has been when I wrote I was suicidal.
It‘s been two months since my surgery and it seems like absolutely no healing has taken place.

In my „windows“ I‘m still having suicidal thoughts which really lets me down, since I don‘t see anymore what I am fighting for.

My symptoms morph throughout the day, but the depression is with me all the time.

It was also during my time in the psychiatric hospital, that the worse I am, the stronger I‘m experiencing depression.
But what I‘m feeling right now is completely off the roof and theres no words that could explain this. Existing right now is so much pain. Every second of it.

 

is it a good sign that my symptoms are morphing more than they have been few weeks ago?

today it went from horrible to somehow manageable to incredibly horrible. Few weeks ago it was staying the same throughout the day with only some minor changes.

 

can it be that the stabilizing that I‘m trying to reach will take as long as a cold turkey? Because it feels so..

 

greetings, hopefully you are having a better day than me

 

[Altostrata]

You seem to be going through the "normal" process of stabilization after a drug upset.

 

What is your current drug schedule? Some of your symptoms might be from your drugs.

 

1 hour ago, Gaebbi said:

In my „windows“ I‘m still having suicidal thoughts which really lets me down, since I don‘t see anymore what I am fighting for.

 

To the extent that you tell yourself things that are discouraging, you have control over this. See

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

 

[Gaebbi]

Hey Alto,

thanks for your reply

my current drug schedule is 10mg fluoxetine + 0,2mg escitalopram at 11 in the morning and 5mgs olanzapine at 9 in the evening.

yes, i reinstated escitalopram because I panicked again.. please don’t be harsh to me. I already regret it. it was before you told me I shouldn‘t, and afterwards I was too scared to withdraw it again. So that‘s my drug schedule now, I was very consistent with this, always taking the drugs by the exact same minute every day. Also 2400mgs EPA + DHA and 62.5mcg Vit. D3 every day.

no caffeine, nicotine or alcohol. Zero.

Sleep about 8-10 hours per night. Luckily the Olanzapine still helps with this.

 

I‘m keeping track of my symptoms, and there doesn‘t seem to be adverse drug effects. Especially because in the one and only real window I had I was completely symptom free. Doesn‘t that mean that I can reach this state with the current drug schedule I‘m taking?

 

you‘re saying I‘m going through the normal process of stabilisation. Is there anything I can read about this process? To see what might be coming to me in the next weeks / months?

or is it as always, that everybody is different?

I‘m really really trying to tell myself positive things and to keep calm, but sometimes the symptoms are too strong. Sometimes crying helps me at least a tiny bit. It‘s near being traumatic, or at least it feels like it.

 

thanks for taking your time!

greetings

 

 

[manymoretodays]

35 minutes ago, Gaebbi said:

my current drug schedule is 10mg fluoxetine + 0,2mg escitalopram at 11 in the morning and 5mgs olanzapine at 9 in the evening.

 

Hi Gaebs!

And oh my gosh.......don't hold back information like that.

So you've been back on 0.2 mg escitalopram since December 1st??

 

And I see several questions as well.  I'll alert Altostrata to have a look at your last post now.

 

Thanks for updating your signature!  That's super.

And sending manymoretodays good intentions and stability hopes for you Gaebbi.

I'm still rooting for you sweetie!!!  And it's okay to cry and sob Gaebbi.  That can be my "release valve" of stored up tension too, when all else fails.

Keep your self talk positive.  Try "I am going to survive this" and "a window is right around the corner". 

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Here's something that might help on Stability for you to look at, in the meantime too.  Might answer some of your questions.  Yes, everyone is a bit different.  Good that you are sleeping.  Completely symptom free........hmmmm........might be changed to,  "I have some wonderful coping skills that do not involve new drugs/medications that have been very useful".........or something to that effect.

Might sound silly, but yes, we who have been through it, do believe......that.......sometimes the toughest symptoms mean healing is happening.  It helps.  One has to believe.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by manymoretodays
minor

[Gaebbi]

Hey manymoretodays,

it‘s nice to see that you‘re still here, I missed you!

yes, it was so stupid to take the escitalopram again but I‘m forgiving myself for that error. Blaming myself will bring me nowhere and now I for sure won‘t change anything anymore because I don‘t see anything that might help me.

I hope taking the escitalopram again didn‘t upset my nervous system any further.. luckily it‘s only 0.2mgs

 

Trust me, I‘m giving my very best to stay positive. That‘s the only way I can survive this. Without help from you and knowing that someday I will be better, I don‘t know where I would be now!

 

greetings!

 

 

[manymoretodays]

I added one last line to my post.  I know you are trying very hard Gaebbi.  It wasn't stupid.  Don't be scared of us.  The more we know, the more we can help I hope.  Nobody ever said this would be one of the easier things in life.

 

(((((((Gaebbi)))))))

[Altostrata]

Do you feel better or worse since you added the escilatopram?

 

You're going to have to take a good look at how you might be making yourself feel worse. For example, do you brood about how great your life used to be and how miserable you are now? Feeling sorry for yourself like that is not helping. You have  control over this. We cannot rescue you from stuff you do to yourself.

[Gaebbi]

Honestly I don‘t see a difference since adding the escitalopram. But well, it‘s only 0.2mgs.

But i found it interesting that on the third day of taking it, I had my window. Sadly that was the only one.

Also, 2 symptoms went away. First, cold shivers, second, extreme sweating while sleeping.

maybe that shows that heeling is happening?

 

Alto I really try to stay calm. I‘m giving my very best, trust me.

but sometimes it‘s just too much to stay calm.

[Gaebbi]

Alto, you‘re saying that I‘m going through a normal process of stabilization.

How does that process look like? Is it normal that I didn‘t get a window for 5 weeks now?
also, should i stick to the 0.2 mgs escitalopram?

I‘m sorry for bothering you that much!

have a great day!

[Gaebbi]

Or please Anybody tell me one thing.

If I had a window once, is it likely that I will get another one soon?

it‘s been 5 weeks and I really don‘t feel like I could get another window..

I mean, really, 5 weeks is a pretty long time for a wave, isn‘t it?

it just feels like I‘m going nowhere..

[pinciukas]

7 minutes ago, Gaebbi said:

Or please Anybody tell me one thing.

If I had a window once, is it likely that I will get another one soon?

it‘s been 5 weeks and I really don‘t feel like I could get another window..

I mean, really, 5 weeks is a pretty long time for a wave, isn‘t it?

it just feels like I‘m going nowhere..

Is is very difficult to say. There is a lot of people in bad situation like a year or 2 and going worse and they still believe in waves and windows. They have right in what they believe. 5 week's is ok'ish but like people telling waves 1-2 years I don't believe in it. There is always other side of the story. Don't believe in everything what you read on the forums 

[Gaebbi]

Sorry pinciukas, I didn‘t really get what you mean.

In what you don‘t believe in? In people having year long waves or in me getting one soon?

greetings

[pinciukas]

3 minutes ago, Gaebbi said:

Sorry pinciukas, I didn‘t really get what you mean.

In what you don‘t believe in? In people having year long waves or in me getting one soon?

greetings

In one two years long waves. 

[Gaebbi]

I wouldn‘t stand another few months without a window.. I‘m already so low on energy.. and the worst is, that it seems to get worse instead of better.

I remember my last window, I got so much energy and willpower from it! I really really need another one, it‘s so extremely exhausting..

[Cocopuffz17]

7 hours ago, Gaebbi said:

I wouldn‘t stand another few months without a window.. I‘m already so low on energy.. and the worst is, that it seems to get worse instead of better.

I remember my last window, I got so much energy and willpower from it! I really really need another one, it‘s so extremely exhausting..

They will come. I was so fatigued from WDs 4-5 months ago that I considered reinstating. I did not, I pushed through thanks to reading all the stories on this forum. 
 

I could not do 1 push up in those waves. I am now hitting personal bests in the gym. It does get better. Keep pushing. 
 

Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed! 😃
 

 

[Gaebbi]

Thanks coco,

I‘m always asking myself which med I should switch or increase in dosage etc.. but then I ask myself „do I want to heal or not?“

there are so many in here that were miserable, changed drugs and became even more miserable. I‘ve gone through this myself.

Someday my depression will be gone. I think it will be like a light switch switched off someday, but I don‘t know when.

[Erell]

On 1/9/2020 at 1:20 PM, Gaebbi said:

Thanks coco,

I‘m always asking myself which med I should switch or increase in dosage etc.. but then I ask myself „do I want to heal or not?“

Hi Gaebbi, 

 

you've done so many changes, as it has been told to you, best for you now is to hold a long time with the same drug schedule and give your body the time to heal

You had good days, so it seems that your CNS have the ability to heal : just give him enough time and stability.

 

Stay strong ❤️

[Gaebbi]

I‘m getting better!!

Still far away from being normal but it gets constantly better for 5 days now.

I was able to go to work again yesterday!!

this is such a huge relief.. I know there will be some setbacks, but I‘m pretty sure that the worst is over!

[Erell]

10 hours ago, Gaebbi said:

I‘m getting better!!

Still far away from being normal but it gets constantly better for 5 days now.

I was able to go to work again yesterday!!

this is such a huge relief.. I know there will be some setbacks, but I‘m pretty sure that the worst is over!

See ? Ups and downs !

Your CNS knows his work, just give it time to do it ❤️

 

[Gaebbi]

Thanks Erell ❤️
my plan is now to wait until I’m stable, then withdraw the 0.2mgs escitalopram and then stabilize until autumn. I want to have a few months of feeling good

I see that hurrying up things won‘t work in my case! The last few months I learned much about myself and my body / CNS!

it‘s still gonna be few years on this crappy meds but I will get out of this never ending circle of prescriptions!

If I made it through the last 8 weeks, I will make it through the rest

[Gaebbi]

A small update from me

sadly I‘m in a horrible, horrible wave again. Everything I do feels like torture. While I was in hospital I was able to distract myself with watching a film or something else, now I can‘t do that because it feels horrible to do ANYTHING!

the only thing I can do is going for a walk or starring at the wall. Time just doesn‘t pass like this.

 

but there are some things that keep me going.

my intrusive thoughts are so much better. I was constantly thinking „what am I gonna do tomorrow (to distract myself)? Why should I live when everything I do is to wait until the day is over? My life has no sense anymore“ and those thoughts minimized. I‘m constantly more living in the present than in the future.

 

also on thursday and friday I had a small window of about 1,5 hours where I felt about 85% healed. I guess that‘s a good sign.

 

suicidal thoughts are with me 24/7, but what sense would suicide have if I want to feel good? I can‘t feel good when I‘m dead. Also all my suffering would have been for nothing.

 

I will keep going! I will make it through this horrible time! I have so much to fight for!

 

will keep you updated the next days!

[Cocopuffz17]

That’s great to notice the positives. They will keep coming and become more abundant in the future. Focus on the positives and they will power you through this.

 

Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed!

[Gaebbi]

I can‘t take it anymore. My symptoms are a 10/10 for three days now. It does not get better, it only gets worse. For 10 weeks now.

Tomorrow I will see a psychiatrist and I will follow what she tells me to do.

I swore to myself that I will try everything I can before I kill myself. And that‘s where I am now.

I think there are three possibilities:

- increasing fluoxetin dosage

- changing back to escitalopram in exchange for fluoxetine

- taking something completely different in exchange for fluoxetine.
I will listen to what she suggests and will keep you updated about it.

 

don‘t get me wrong. I know that I would get better if I waited and that you all are right. But waiting is not possible anymore. 

[pinciukas]

3 hours ago, Gaebbi said:

I can‘t take it anymore. My symptoms are a 10/10 for three days now. It does not get better, it only gets worse. For 10 weeks now.

Tomorrow I will see a psychiatrist and I will follow what she tells me to do.

I swore to myself that I will try everything I can before I kill myself. And that‘s where I am now.

I think there are three possibilities:

- increasing fluoxetin dosage

- changing back to escitalopram in exchange for fluoxetine

- taking something completely different in exchange for fluoxetine.
I will listen to what she suggests and will keep you updated about it.

 

don‘t get me wrong. I know that I would get better if I waited and that you all are right. But waiting is not possible anymore. 

 

Hope you will get better. I was in the same situation. I made some adjustments in my dose and now i feel stable since dose adjustment. I have ups and downs but i believe every person have them. I don’t think about the future to much just staying stable today one day at a time. When i will be ready i will tapper again. Good luck !

[Gaebbi]

Small update

I will be stationary in the psychiatric hospital again from next week on.

The doctor I talked to believes in withdrawal and an upset nervous system. She says switching back to escitalopram would be too much stress for me, but keeping my drug schedule as it is is no option anymore.

she suggests an increase of fluoxetine.

also in her opinion I should see some decrease in my symptoms 10 weeks after my operation, but the opposite is the case. so in her opinion my symptoms are only partly caused by the operation. I‘m not sure about this.

I‘m not sure yet if I‘m going to change the dosage. Want to talk to another doc first. I know I have to be really careful about what to do!

greetings.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Gaebbi,

And okay.  And I know it must be tough right now.

 

If it were me, I'd try and stay put......but that's just me.  Most doctors treatment of WD, does involve more drugs, higher doses, etc..........that's what they believe in, or their paradigm of thinking.  And maybe more fluoxetine WILL get you where you'd like to be, more quickly than just using non-drug coping.  And then in another couple of years, or perhaps sooner, you can begin another taper.  No one said it would be easy.

 

I mean if you are seeing doctors who are still seeing patients, and prescribing for 20 years, for the same patients.........yet they also tell you they know all about WD.  Well, you can see the irony of that all.  Perhaps?  Most believe in the drugs is all.  Not in any other way.

 

Wishing you some further stability Gaebbi then!  And I'm glad you trust your prescriber.  That's a good thing. 

I still, however, dislike or even hate Zyprexa strongly!!!!  Ugh, some doctors won't even use it anymore in the U.S.  But what's done, is done.

 

Stop on by, from time to time, and when you get home again Gaebbi, okay?

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Gaebbi]

Hey manymoretodays,

thank you so much for being there for me and helping me to go through this!!

Sadly, I can‘t go on like this, like it is. Trust me, I really want to keep my drug schedule how it is, but my symptoms are too strong, it‘s so incredibly much psychic pain..

 

I‘m stationary again since today. My roommates are very nice and I‘m really happy to have a pretty caring chief doctor. I talked to her 45 minutes long today, about my condition, and she really listened and understood what it‘s all about. She told me that one can‘t deny anymore that there are pretty severe withdrawal symptoms from SSRIs and that they get more and more cases of this.

She doesn‘t want me to change anything in my serotonic meds, except get rid of the .2mgs Escitalopram again. She told me I may get some more wd symptoms by this, but at least I‘m in the hospital and there is always somebody there who can help me go through this.

She says, the best possibility to decrease my severe depression would be to take either bupropion, mirtazapine or agomelatine in addition

Of course I don‘t want to, but I also can‘t stand my symptoms any longer..

I‘m not sure yet what to do, but will keep you updated. I may go with wellbutrin.

 

you‘re so right about the zyprexa.. hell, while I was in the hospital few months ago I really thought it wouldn‘t be a problem to get rid of it after 8 days of taking it.. boy was I wrong.. I think I never ever felt as bad as I was when I withdrew it. Horrible horrible depression and couldn‘t sleep a single second for two nights.. only after 8 days of taking it. Incredible.

what an awful, powerful, horrible drug..

I really hope to gain some stability soon, so I can slowly try to get rid of this crap..

Well, at least it helped me sleep the last few weeks.. but damn I really don‘t want to take this sh*t anymore..

 

I made so many mistakes the last few months.. I hope I can break this cycle and someday get rid of all those drugs.. I will, but it will be a long long road. But I will make it!

 

have a great day, mmt, thanks for everything!

[Cocopuffz17]

You can break this cycle and you will! Those were learning curves and now you know the proper way. It will get better with time. I didn’t use to believe this and now 7 months later I feel x150000 better. 
 

Remember, everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed!