Alejandro34: Is reinstating Effexor after 5 months an option?

[Rtibal]

Admin note: link to benzo forum thread: Alejandro34: Clonazepam vision damage ?

 

Is reinstatement still an option? 

I'm writing on behalf of my boyfriend who is going through a rough withdrawal symptoms.  Hasn't been able to eat, sleep and he is unable to operate a computer right now.

 

He has been off effexor for almost 5 months.

Now he is is desperate and thinking about reinstating. His blood pressure has increased to normal high and sometimes high. He has very loud ringing in the ears. He can't eat or do any complex tasks. He sees distortions (things vent on his visual field), but his eyes are ok after confirming with his eye doctor.  And he just seems to be getting worse.

He has got much worse since the 3rd month off effexor.

He took:

Effexor XR of 150 mg for 4 years 2003 TO 2008 Bridge to Zoloft, took it from 2008 to 2011. Bridge to Prozac, from 2011 to 2012. Bridge to vibrid took it from 2012 to 2013.  Then I  was switched to effexor IR 200 mg from 2013 to 2016. Effexore XR 150 mg  for 6 months and that's when he started to taper over a period of 11 months using his psychiatric method. Taking 150mg for 3 days then 130mg the next day, then repeat the 150mg dixe 2 days and 113 mg 3 days. Stay there for 2-3 weeks. And so on.

We would like to know if reinstaiment is I still in the table and how likely it is to work for him.

 

Thank you for any help and advice provided.

Please pray for us.

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Shep
added link to benzo forum thread

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Rtibal.

 

Yes, your boyfriend can reinstate. We suggest a very small amount, say 10 beads out of an Effexor capsule, because people with withdrawal syndrome are often hypersensitive to drugs and more can cause bad symptoms.

 

It would be best if your boyfriend joined this site and let us know how he does with reinstatement and his symptom pattern.

[Rtibal]

Altostrata,

 

Thank you for your response. Sorry it took this long to answer back.

 

My boyfriend joined the site ,  He was the one who suggested i Joined, but he hasn't been able to post or write anything since  He has intense congnitive issues and severe rainfog.  He has been 5 months off Effexor where the worse started about a month and a half ago(begining of July). His sympoms are disabling.  We never thought this was going to happend and wish we could turn back time to do a better taper with the knowledge we gained recently.

 

We forgot to mention he is been  taking clonazepan for 9 years.  We didn't have the effexor refilled until today that we had an appoitment.   

 

We have a question: He is planning to start with 3 beads tomorrow, and work itsefl up if needed.  How fast should we increase the doze? 

 

 Thank you again for any help and wish us luck.

 

[Altostrata]

Please let us know how your boyfriend does with 3 beads of Effexor. It could be he feels well enough to post himself -- that would be best.

 

It will take 4-7 days for the body to fully register any dosage change.

 

The clonazepam could be a major, major problem. One side effect of clonazepam can be depression. If he's increased the dosage because of Effexor withdrawal, clonazepam can cause cognitive issues. It can also cause sleep problems. If he's accidentally skipped doses, his withdrawal symptoms may be due to that.

 

Given your boyfriend may be suffering withdrawal from Effexor and side effects from clonazepam, it's going to be very difficult for us to support him through you. We need to know daily drug intake and symptom pattern.

[Alejandro34]

Thank you for your answer and help over the hardest time in my life. please excuse my writing it may not be organized or well articulated because i am experiencing brain fog. I will try to post to the best of my ability. I was going trough the acute withdrawal on july / august but was having recurrent windows of several hours. The windows then stopped and I started to fear clonazepam may be affecting my progress. So i figured, if i am stuck i then must try reinstatement even if its so late. My most disturbing symptoms lately have been 

Ear ringing ( acute )

Eye Strain / blurred vision / visual distortions ( Bent lines ) / visual strain / discomfort watching tv ( medium )

Brain fog / cognitive disfunction / memory fog ( acute )

Derealization, drowsiness ( acute )

Insomnia horrible dreams sometimes dream hallucinations, taquicardia ( acute )

body weakness and some lack of coordination in hands, decreased hand motor skills, loss of balance ( mild )

Sense of doom, horror, stress surges, fear and terror ( acute )

I have been taking clonazepam 9 years and when i tapered effexor ( which was a really bad tapper ) i wasn't even thinking about clonazepam while i tapered effexor, until recently did i find out about how dangerous it is but now i am stuck with it. I break 1 mg into 4 pieces and take 3 pieces so i take .67 mg i havent increased the clonazepam dose since effexor withdrawal however because I keep waking up in terror trembling and with horrible nightmares and taquicardia at 3 - 4 am I started to suspect clonazepam was affecting me ( I may be wrong ) so instead of taking the whole dose in one take i take it over a period of 3 or 4 hours, this spacing of the dose is the only change i have done to clonazepam, spreading the dose seems to help a little. Is it possible that withdrawal from effexor has increased the side effects from clonazepam ? It never gave me any side effects before. What problems can clonazepam be causing me ? should I start preparing to taper it ?

I will start my reinstatement start with 3 beads which is aprox 3mg and post how it goes, wish me luck and thank you for your help.

[Rtibal]

Hi Altostrata: 

Just wanted to confirm. My boyfriend replied to the post and  we want to be sure is generating new post  notificatons. 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Alejandro.

 

Thank you for joining us. I will change the title of this topic to show it's about you.

 

You may be reacting to clonazepam, too. When you upset your nervous system with drug changes, your reactions to other drugs can change as well. Please put clonazepam in your signature.

 

What time of day do you take each drug, and at what dosage? What is your daily symptom pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

[Alejandro34]

I am trying to reinstate a small dose of effexor after 5 months off it and am abrupt taper over 11 months with abrupt dose changes.

 

My withdrawal got most acute on july and august changing my whole life upside down, but i was geting recurrent windows and i thought i could keep afloat, but then windows stopped 3 weeks ago and some disturbing symptoms started to happen more often, I remembered at that point that i am also taking clonazepam, a factor i totally forgot while i was tapering effexor, i realized recently this could be a problem, because of the clonazepam and the disturbing symptoms i paniked and felt trapped with the clonazepam and afraid i would not make much progress because of it and decided to give reinstatement a try.

 

This is my 3rd day of reinstatement and The symptom pattern is confusing and i cant interpret wether i am better or worse, could you please help me discern if there are signs of improvement and should abort this or continue it ?

 

The first day I took aprox 2 mg of effexor in two beads it at 7 pm i noticed i felt better and less agitated soon after and also had the side effects of effexor like emotional numbness, my taquicardia decreased and regained a normal hearth rate from 117bpm to 84bpm in average felt better several hours, i attributed it to the effexor but could have been a window coincidentally.

I took three 1/4 pieces of 1 mg tablet of clonazepam, sparsed over 3 hours took one quarter each hour starting at 11

at 4 am woke up trembling agitated sweating and getting halucination like dreams and having intense sense of withdrawal and an urge to take some drug ( not sure if effexor or clonazepam ) had intense cravings to take something but i didnt.

 

The second day i took 2mg at 11 am and felt drowsy most of the day, i didnt feel as bad as usual but felt emotionally numb and flat, less agitation for sure but not comfortable. at night started to feel better after 8 pm to a point where i was comfortable.

I took three 1/4 pieces of 1 mg tablet of clonazepam, sparsed over 3 hours took one quarter each hour starting at 11

at 4 am woke up trembling agitated sweating and getting halucination like dreams and having intense symptoms of withdrawal, flu like symptoms mostly and intense cravings to take effexor or clonazepam not sure which one.

 

The third day ( Today ) i woke up feeling horrible and with alot of withdrawal but after 2 hours i started to feel better to the point in which i almost feel normal-ish, this is not common. i havent taken the effexor yet because i want to abort in case is not working.

 

Can anyone help me understand a little better whats may be going on, may it be working or not ?

 

Thank you so much

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hi, Alejandro. I moved your post here. Please add updates and questions to this topic so we can keep information all in one place.

 

4 hours ago, Alejandro34 said:

The first day I took aprox 2 mg of effexor in two beads it at 7 pm i noticed i felt better and less agitated soon after and also had the side effects of effexor like emotional numbness, my taquicardia decreased and regained a normal hearth rate from 117bpm to 84bpm in average felt better several hours, i attributed it to the effexor but could have been a window coincidentally.

I took three 1/4 pieces of 1 mg tablet of clonazepam, sparsed over 3 hours took one quarter each hour starting at 11

at 4 am woke up trembling agitated sweating and getting halucination like dreams and having intense sense of withdrawal and an urge to take some drug ( not sure if effexor or clonazepam ) had intense cravings to take something but i didnt.

 

The second day i took 2mg at 11 am and felt drowsy most of the day, i didnt feel as bad as usual but felt emotionally numb and flat, less agitation for sure but not comfortable. at night started to feel better after 8 pm to a point where i was comfortable.

I took three 1/4 pieces of 1 mg tablet of clonazepam, sparsed over 3 hours took one quarter each hour starting at 11

at 4 am woke up trembling agitated sweating and getting halucination like dreams and having intense symptoms of withdrawal, flu like symptoms mostly and intense cravings to take effexor or clonazepam not sure which one.

 

The third day ( Today ) i woke up feeling horrible and with alot of withdrawal but after 2 hours i started to feel better to the point in which i almost feel normal-ish, this is not common. i havent taken the effexor yet because i want to abort in case is not working.

 

This sounds like the little bit of Effexor is working. Please take the same amount at the same time each day and keep notes. It may take 4 days to a week for the reinstatement to take full effect, you might experience some odd symptoms along the way.

 

Do you take clonazepam every day? What exactly is your clonazepam schedule? This is very important.

[Alejandro34]

Thank you for your insight and help. In this post ill focus on the clonazepam.

I take clonazepam daily, i have been taking it for 9 years and have not tapered it yet. I am also going intense withdrawal for 5 months after tapering venlaflaxine and we were concerned I could have developed some reaction to clonopin which i would like to know more about.

I take one tablet of 1 mg break it into 4 pieces, then i take one piece at 10 pm then one at 11 pm then one at 1 am a total of 3 quarters of the 1 mg tablet. Sometimes when i have an emotional crisis I take an additional quarter during the day. Maybe there is a better way of taking the clonazepam, is there a way of taking clonazepam to avoid inter-dose withdrawal or minimize the risks ?

Every night between 3 to 5 am i wake up shaking a lot and sweating and with horrible nightmares that resemble more like a deliriums, very real. Going back to sleep is hard, i also have taquicardia but it resolves over an hour if i stay awake. Ever since i am off venlaflaxine I had no problem falling asleep even without the clonazepam so it became a nuance to take it, i only take it because i know i am dependent on it, not because i think i need it and i dont think i can start tapering it in the middle of such intense withdrawal.

Any insight on what may be going on is very welcome, thanks a lot

 

 

[Rtibal]

On 8/28/2018 at 2:41 PM, Altostrata said:

 

What are the signs and symptoms that  would indicate that he is having a reaction to the clonazepam? So we can be aware and what would you recommend to do if that happens? What are his options?

Any suggestions is appreciated. Thank you for your help.

[Altostrata]

On 9/2/2018 at 1:08 PM, Alejandro34 said:

Every night between 3 to 5 am i wake up shaking a lot and sweating and with horrible nightmares that resemble more like a deliriums, very real. Going back to sleep is hard, i also have taquicardia but it resolves over an hour if i stay awake.

 

This could be breakthrough withdrawal as clonazepam wears off or a paradoxical reaction to the clonazepam.

 

Either way, if you get a symptom regularly, it's because of something you're regularly doing earlier. Given that you're taking .75mg clonazepam within a few hours -- yes, spacing out the clonazepam would even out the effect.

 

Please start a topic for yourself here to ask about a clonazepam schedule, @Shep will help you.

[Shep]

On 9/2/2018 at 4:08 PM, Alejandro34 said:

I take one tablet of 1 mg break it into 4 pieces, then i take one piece at 10 pm then one at 11 pm then one at 1 am a total of 3 quarters of the 1 mg tablet

 

On 9/2/2018 at 4:08 PM, Alejandro34 said:

Every night between 3 to 5 am i wake up shaking a lot and sweating and with horrible nightmares that resemble more like a deliriums, very real. Going back to sleep is hard, i also have taquicardia but it resolves over an hour if i stay awake. Ever since i am off venlaflaxine I had no problem falling asleep even without the clonazepam so it became a nuance to take it, i only take it because i know i am dependent on it, not because i think i need it and i dont think i can start tapering it in the middle of such intense withdrawal.

 

Hi, Alejandro.

 

The symptoms are hitting 2 - 5 hours after taking your last dose, which, as you mention you don't need to sleep. Since the bulk of your benzo dose is taken at 10 pm and later, let's work on on spacing these doses out more.

 

Also, have you been at the same 1 mg dose since 2008? I'm confused over the fact you are splitting your 1 mg pill into 4 pieces, but only take 3 of them. Did you reduce the clonazepam? 

 

As Alto mentioned, it would be good to start a thread for yourself in the benzo forum:

 

Benzo tapering and recovery

 

Please start a drug and symptoms journal in the benzo forum. This is a great format to use:

 

Drug and Symptoms Journal Format

 

This way of reporting your symptoms within the context of when you take your drugs will help guide you in when to take the benzos. After you start your benzo thread, I can walk you through a schedule that may help with your symptoms. 

[Ahms]

On 8/11/2018 at 3:28 PM, Rtibal said:

Is reinstatement still an option? 

I'm writing on behalf of my boyfriend who is going through a rough withdrawal symptoms.  Hasn't been able to eat, sleep and he is unable to operate a computer right now.

 

He has been off effexor for almost 5 months.

Now he is is desperate and thinking about reinstating. His blood pressure has increased to normal high and sometimes high. He has very loud ringing in the ears. He can't eat or do any complex tasks. He sees distortions (things vent on his visual field), but his eyes are ok after confirming with his eye doctor.  And he just seems to be getting worse.

He has got much worse since the 3rd month off effexor.

He took:

Effexor XR of 150 mg for 4 years 2003 TO 2008 Bridge to Zoloft, took it from 2008 to 2011. Bridge to Prozac, from 2011 to 2012. Bridge to vibrid took it from 2012 to 2013.  Then I  was switched to effexor IR 200 mg from 2013 to 2016. Effexore XR 150 mg  for 6 months and that's when he started to taper over a period of 11 months using his psychiatric method. Taking 150mg for 3 days then 130mg the next day, then repeat the 150mg dixe 2 days and 113 mg 3 days. Stay there for 2-3 weeks. And so on.

We would like to know if reinstaiment is I still in the table and how likely it is to work for him.

 

Thank you for any help and advice provided.

Please pray for us.

 

Hi Ritbal. Does your boyfriend have visual snow/sees static, after images or dimmed vision? 

[Rtibal]

On 9/8/2018 at 11:23 AM, Ahms said:

Hi Ritbal. Does your boyfriend have visual snow/sees static, after images or dimmed vision? 

Thank you for your question, he doesn’t see static that he can notice, nor after images but he does get dim vision specially on dark places his eyes dont adapt as well to low light, he says ge suspects his iris is not dilating but we don’t know if that’s the reason. Hi also gets unexplainable eye strain and trouble focusing his eye sight, similar to blurry vision but a little different he feels like he lost some visual acuity. He also sees flickering or vibrating lines and distorted visual perception, some straight lines seem to be curved and wavy. All these symptoms developed over 3 - 4 weeks 4 months after discontinuing the effexor.

 

On 8/28/2018 at 2:41 PM, Altostrata said:

 

What are the signs and symptoms that  would indicate that he is having a reaction to the clonazepam? So we can be aware and what would you recommend to do if that happens? What are his options?

Any suggestions is appreciated. Thank you for your help.

[Shep]

11 minutes ago, Rtibal said:

What are the signs and symptoms that  would indicate that he is having a reaction to the clonazepam? So we can be aware and what would you recommend to do if that happens? What are his options?

Any suggestions is appreciated. Thank you for your help.

 

Please see my post below.

 

We really need this information from Alejandro before being able to give any advice.

 

 

On 9/6/2018 at 6:57 AM, Shep said:

The symptoms are hitting 2 - 5 hours after taking your last dose, which, as you mention you don't need to sleep. Since the bulk of your benzo dose is taken at 10 pm and later, let's work on on spacing these doses out more.

 

Also, have you been at the same 1 mg dose since 2008? I'm confused over the fact you are splitting your 1 mg pill into 4 pieces, but only take 3 of them. Did you reduce the clonazepam? 

 

As Alto mentioned, it would be good to start a thread for yourself in the benzo forum:

 

Benzo tapering and recovery

 

Please start a drug and symptoms journal in the benzo forum. This is a great format to use:

 

Drug and Symptoms Journal Format

 

This way of reporting your symptoms within the context of when you take your drugs will help guide you in when to take the benzos. After you start your benzo thread, I can walk you through a schedule that may help with your symptoms. 

 

[Alejandro34]

Thank you Shep for your answer, my eyes are bothering so much it has been hard to read stuff in the computer. I started 1 mg of clonazepam 2008 then on 2015 i reduced .25 mg in hopes of reaching only 0.5 mg but i never reached that and keep taking .75 mg from 2015.

I was taking it at 11 pm every night until july when intense withdrawal hit me and started to suspect clonazepam was causing me issues at night ( although my suspicions may not be reliable because i am having all type of paranoid thinking ) the main symptom is trembling at 3 - 5 am horrible nightmares that become delirious taquicardia and some high blood pressure 135 / 95, after i wake up and wait 30 minutes or so it all gets better and normalizes but when i fall asleep again it comes back. 

I am in a state of complete confusion from my reaction has been not to do anything, sort of getting froze, but the reality is that my health is taking a huge punch right now specially my eyes, having trouble figuring out the next steps.

Let me know if this is the information you needed and thank you very much for your input

[Shep]

14 hours ago, Alejandro34 said:

I started 1 mg of clonazepam 2008 then on 2015 i reduced .25 mg in hopes of reaching only 0.5 mg but i never reached that and keep taking .75 mg from 2015.

 

Thanks for the additional inforamtion, Alejandro.

 

What kind of symptoms did you have when you reduced down to .75 mg clonazepam? Did any of those symptoms resolve? 

 

Please update your signature, as it states: Clonazepam 1mg 2008 to 2018 ( Currently taking ) however, you stated you are currently on .75 mg.

 

A direct link to your signature is here:

 

Account - Settings - Create or Edit Your Signature

 

15 hours ago, Alejandro34 said:

I was taking it at 11 pm every night until july when intense withdrawal hit me and started to suspect clonazepam was causing me issues at night

 

Since you stopped the Effexor in March, you would have been off for about 4 months in July. So the intense withdrawal could have also been from delayed antidepressant withdrawal. 

 

Here is some helpful information on antidepressant withdrawal:

 

One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery video (4 minutes)

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

 

Please start a thread for yourself in the benzo forum:

 

Benzo tapering and recovery

 

Once you start your new thread, please post a drug and symptoms journal. This is a great format to use:

 

Drug and Symptoms Journal Format

 

This way of reporting your symptoms within the context of when you take your drugs will help guide you in when to take the benzos. After you start your benzo thread, I can walk you through a schedule that may help with your symptoms. 

 

[ChessieCat]

Your new topic has been merged with an existing topic:

 

vision-symptoms-floaters-snow-blurreddimmed-vision-twitching-dry-eyes-and-pain

 

[Alejandro34]

Well after almost a year I can say with certainty that this reaction at night was caused completely by the withdrawal from Effexor and not from clonazepam. It got trigger all over the night, when you fall asleep it gets trigger because the nervous system is so damaged from the discontinuation it cant handle normal cycles like sleeping etc, it goes havoc.

I continued to take clonazepam at night the reaction waved and then went away over the months, I can currently sleep 8 to 9 hours straight, have nice dreams etc. When I get waves I would wake up with taquicardia, its evident now what this is damage from effexor discontinuation. I am still very ill from discontinuing effexor.

[Shep]

Sleeping 8 to 9 hours a night is great, Alejandro.

 

Are you still taking 1 mg clonazepam at night or have you started tapering? 

 

Yes, recovering from Effexor may take awhile, but hopefully you'll see improvements soon. 

[Alejandro34]

Hello Shep. I havent started tapering clonazepam, I am too scared, when I started to feel sick I got mentally paralyzed and couldn't take anymore choices. The experience with the withdrawal has been indescribably horrifying, I cant believe I have survived this far.

There are several problems I developed right when the severe intolerable illness got worse that seems to be very rare even for severe withdrawal. I have amnesia episodes and I have severe impairments in memory and learning visual and verbal. Neurocognitive evaluations ( 5 hours ) showed a huge gap between those areas being severely impaired and most others being normal or very high or low normal, from where they conclude I have a neurological disorder, unspecific, and sent many tests. I also have visual problems but some very different than most people describe, most troubling are small scotomas, some resolve others stay, about this problem I want to make a post on the benzo section to see if there is strong evidence that the usage of clonazepam can cause that, but doesnt seem directly linked. I have many other issues.

There is improvement, but the improvement shows up for a while then goes away then creeps back etc. I find myself laughing and enjoying things often, sometimes even relaxed but not functional, all projects gone. I am also severely depressed, I am just existing and its very depressing.

What I want to do is just start to take another ssnri or ssri like zoloft or something like that in hopes to find improvement, i am that desperate where I am preparing to take the risk, not for now tough that would be in a few months from here. Its been a year of the event and life is gone. Where do you recommend me to go from here ? 

How did you taper your drugs ? were you able to taper correctly ? any problems with withdrawal or something like that ?

 

 

[Alejandro34]

On 9/8/2018 at 11:23 AM, Ahms said:

Hi Ritbal. Does your boyfriend have visual snow/sees static, after images or dimmed vision? 

I ended up having visual snow and after images, and small scotomas ( discontinuities in visual field ), some resolve others dont, very distressing. Visual snow went away mostly but comes in waves, after images went away mostly but come in waves almost dont notice it anymore, bad vision at low light and at night comes in waves, definitely better but sometimes is so bad I cant drive or walk at night.

Blurry vision I have most of the time, but not all the time, sometimes it gets better. I was seeing Contrasting light very exaggerated and wrong constrasts in color and light, still have that but is better. 

I also was seeing everything very bent, that has improved over a year. This has been an absolute nightmare.

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Alejandro34 said:

visual snow and after images

 

Visual symptoms are a very common withdrawal symptom.  Like all of these symptoms, they resolve after time but we don't know how much time.

Visual snow symptoms - Surviving Antidepressants

[Lloyd]

Hiya, sorry to hear you are having a bad time with the Effexor withdrawal. I've gone through Effexor withdrawal twice now so i know how bad it can get. Reinstatement does seem to be pretty effective for reducing the symptoms - ive done it myself which did help a fair bit. Hoping you see improvement soon.

[Shep]

20 hours ago, Alejandro34 said:

What I want to do is just start to take another ssnri or ssri like zoloft or something like that in hopes to find improvement, i am that desperate where I am preparing to take the risk, not for now tough that would be in a few months from here. Its been a year of the event and life is gone. Where do you recommend me to go from here ? 

 

I would not recommend adding in another antidepressant, or any other psych drug. They all have possible adverse reactions and potential severe withdrawal, with a lot of the same problems as benzo use and withdrawal.

 

This thread explores the length of recovery. 

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

 

You are almost 15 months off your antidepressant. Give it some time and you'll see improvements. 

 

When you feel more stable, a slow taper off the benzo will be your next step. 

 

Have you been to the eye doctor to get checked out? If your eye exam turns out normal, than you'll know it's withdrawal and / or the side effects of the benzo. 

 

[Alejandro34]

On 5/29/2019 at 8:23 PM, Lloyd said:

Hiya, sorry to hear you are having a bad time with the Effexor withdrawal. I've gone through Effexor withdrawal twice now so i know how bad it can get. Reinstatement does seem to be pretty effective for reducing the symptoms - ive done it myself which did help a fair bit. Hoping you see improvement soon.

Hi Lloyd, thank you mate! When you first reinstated that didnt work what did you feel, how did you know didnt work ?

I poped up a 37.5mg pill on October 2018 and that got me very sick for a month, I should have started with a lower dose. I think I cant go back crawling to effexor, So i am thinking some other drug with longer half life.

I really want to go back to that stuff, never been worse in my entire life.