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Leo1983

☼ Leo1983: SSRI withdrawal

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Leo1983

Hi.

 

I see your in the uk. 

 

Im in Newcastle. This is the worst situation ever. 

 

Hope ur ok. 


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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eymen23
4 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Its the acceptance im struggling with. I cant be myself. 

 

I cant engage with family proply and my wife and kids. When i think of the devastation i get panic. 

 

Then i look for answers. I dont feel much improvement with mental stuff.

 

Trying to keep my job and do stuff i need to do when feeling awful. The anhedonia does nothing to keep you motivated 

 

Hi Leo,

 

I’m sorry that you’ve been struggling so much for so long now. Despite how much you’re suffering still, I’ve found many of your posts to be motivating. You’re 7 months off all these drugs and you’re hanging in there.

 

I have serious confidence that if you keep putting one foot in front of the other that you’re going to heal. It seems you’re in a particularly rough spot at the moment, perhaps triggered by this virus and also the situational impact of the festive period. 

 

I can’t tell you when and sadly nobody can, but I really do feel this will ease up. I know it’s horrible, but please try to reframe this situation and try to use this as an experience to grow as a person.

 

Life is not always a walk in the park, and very often we judge our lives based on how good or bad we feel, and what we have accomplished etc. But really, we can slowly learn to embrace every moment, whether it good and bad, and be grateful to experience anything at all. It’s not an overnight process, but perhaps starting a gratitude journal or encorporating various meditations could help you find some sense of peace during this awful time. 

 

Hope you get better soon!


PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I can only provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

What a nice response. 

 

Hope your well. 

 

I think thats the issue 7 months.... its been a lifetime. 

 

Im very concerned that im going to stay feeling like this forever. My drug duration was alot over a short period of time however not for very long. And im suffering 7 months out pretty bad. It mainly the not wanting to see people i love, as i feel no love i guess. 

 

If i was not so anhedonic that would help. 

 

Its fear of no recovery and been told you will heal just to keep you alive. 


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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eymen23
20 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

What a nice response. 

 

You’re very welcome!

 

Unfortunately Leo, 2 years on and off doesn’t really count as a short period of time. I’ve been on Escitalopram (generic of Lexapro) for 7 weeks and only 5mg, and I’m coming to terms with the fact I should slowly taper now, even though it’s been a short stint on a dose doctors say doesn’t even work! 

 

I’m not sure if you’ve read Alto’s story? She was on Paxil for less than 3 years on I believe 10mg, which isn’t a huge dose (it’s roughly half as effective as Lexapro ). She went through an extremely tough time following a fast taper and it took years to stabilise. 

 

The fact you have started and cold turkeyed from numerous meds, I feel you’re doing relatively well! Even though it probably feels like hell right now. Despite how you’re feeling, you come across as strong and determined in your posts. It will get better!! 


PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I can only provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

No withing 2 years i tried various meds.

 

So i was on prozac 6 weeks. Came off felt fine. Then a few month later on Sertraline for 8 weeks came off felt ok. Then on citalopram for 8 weeks a few month later. 

 

So i was not medicated a whole 2 years. Its was on and off. However i was fine when i stopped all them.

 

It was my last drug Escitalopram i was on for 3 month off for 12 weeks then back on for 12 weeks. 

 

Thats the drug i feel got hold of me and did this. I was terrible on it however when i stopped all hell broke loose. 

 

I am strong but this is bringing me to my knees at times. Its awful. 

 

Yes i read Alto post. She had some serious heart issues and stuff aswell with it. Terrible. 

 

At least she is well now. Main thing.


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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eymen23
8 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

No withing 2 years i tried various meds.

 

So i was on prozac 6 weeks. Came off felt fine. Then a few month later on Sertraline for 8 weeks came off felt ok. Then on citalopram for 8 weeks a few month later. 

 

So i was not medicated a whole 2 years. Its was on and off. However i was fine when i stopped all them.

 

 

 

Hi Leo.

 

i understand that, but the point I’m hoping to get across is that stopping and starting 3 different meds within 2 years isn’t a walk in the park for your nervous system.

 

Although Escitalopram was perhaps the straw that broke the camels back, I feel the issues probably compounded over time with the various starts, stops and changes, but only caught up with you during your Escitalopram trial. That being said, my knowledge does not compare to the mods or even experienced members here.

 

keep strong! 


PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I can only provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

We should not start them full stop of there so dangerous.


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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ChessieCat
5 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

I think thats the issue 7 months.... its been a lifetime. 

 

Great example of where CBT (change bad thinking) can be helpful.

 

"its been a lifetime" is not a true statement

 

"it feels like its been a lifetime" is a true statement


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

Hi.

 

Got a question. 

 

Is SSRI withdrawal called iatrogenic injury? 

 

Is iatrogenic a different issue?

 

Is it likely people in withdrawal have a brain injury?

 

I read these symptoms we all have are a result of injury to the brain.

 

That bothers me abit. 

 

Thanks

 

Leo


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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Leo1983

I know about the brain changing etc. And waiting in a que etc.

 

Im asking is the brain injured when people get the symptoms.


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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ChessieCat

 

From this post by Altostrata:

 

"Allow me to clarify:

 

On 5/15/2011 at 5:22 AM, 'surviving' said:

Antidepressant withdrawal syndrome can last weeks, months, or years. It can be distressing, debilitating, or even disabling. It may be adding to an increase in what is termed disabling mental illness.

 

 

Antidepressant withdrawal syndrome is almost always diagnosed as relapse, unmasking, or emergence of serious mental illness, calling for treatment with more drugs. Usually additional medications make it worse, and the person becomes sicker and sicker -- again an iatrogenic (treatment-caused) condition. At the extreme, a person might become disabled.

 

In this way, antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, as well as other adverse effects of psychiatric drugs, may be adding to the numbers of psychiatric disabilities all over the world. (This is described in the book Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker.)

 

An iatrogenic condition need not be a permanent disability. Recovery is still possible, but if the symptoms are from an adverse or paradoxical reaction to medication, the medication has to be gradually withdrawn for recovery."


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat

The symptoms we get are because the brain is busy trying to regain homeostasis which is what the brain is always trying to do.  I think the success stories speak for themselves as far as brain damage goes.

 

I think it's time you stopped worrying so much and try to distract yourself from your withdrawal.  You are over-stressed at this time and that makes us more susceptible to overthinking.  Adding to the stress means the brain has more work that it is trying to do, which is why symptoms increase during that time.  That's why we advocate the non drug coping techniques.  It helps give the brain a bit of a rest from trying to deal with the worry and stress.

 

One thing that I found helpful to get me into the habit of mindfulness was when my dog died.  My daughter was concerned about how I was going to cope and she suggested that I check in with myself throughout the day to see how I was feeling and that way I would be able to catch the stress before it built up too much.  I started off by setting an alarm and that reminded me to stop and check how I was feeling.  I only needed to set the beeper a few times and was able to do it without it.  That was 2.5 years ago now and I still use the technique and find that it helps me to recognise that things are building up before they get too far.  Even when driving I sometimes find that I start getting a bit tense, not from the traffic, just from concentrating, because when I concentrate I tend to shallow breathe, and then I tell myself to relax and take a few slow deep breathes and drop my shoulders and try to loosen up a bit.

 

It's a good idea to learn and practice the non drug techniques during times when you don't feel that you need them.  Build a toolkit.  What happens is that you have learned them and they are easier to implement when you need them, instead of trying to learn something and use it when you are in a bad spot.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

Can you explain the last bit in simple terms please Chessie. 

 

The iatrogenic part.

 

My last drug made me feel similar to what i do now. It made me feel confused, memory loss, increased anxiety, low mood. What is that? Adverse reaction?

 

Does that mean i have removed the drug not slowly of course but is that what was needed to heal?

 

 


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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ChessieCat
4 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

So yeh im worse now than before meds. The meds killed me. I was a fool keep trying them.

 

I'm taking you to task for this post.  The meds have not killed you!  That is catastrophic talk.  If you write things like this it gives a good indication of your thought patterns.  CBT - change bad thinking.

 

15 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

The iatrogenic part.

 

I think you are worrying yourself over something you don't need to.

 

You have a brain that was given chemicals, to which it adapted.  When the drugs were changed or taken away the brain was always trying to adapt.  It is not just one or two changes that it has to make, it is a chain reaction.  If one thing is changed it affects something else so that has to change and so on down the line, which is why so many different parts of the body can be affected.

 

Basically, the drugs can cause issues, and getting off them can cause issues, whether by a slow taper (even slow taperers experience withdrawal symptoms), fast taper or CT.  The thing to remember is that the brain is always working to get back to factory settings, and it needs time to do this.

 

Have you read Your Drug May Be Your Problem by Dr Peter Breggin and Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker?  I found both of these books extremely helpful in understanding psychiatric drugs.

 

There are links on my webpage to things I've found on the internet.  They are YouTube videos by the medical professionals who understand withdrawal and psychiatric drug use (and Whitaker a non-medical person).   I'm not sure if all the links are still working, but if not try searching for them or let me know and I'll try to find it for you.

 

 

DSM, Psychiatric Drugs, the Pharmaceutical Industry
 

Video:  Coming off Psych Drugs:  A Meeting of the Minds (1 hour 15 minutes)
 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)
 
Website:  The Council for Evidence-Based Psychiatry

                 Videos:  Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? (1 minute)

                                How are psychiatric diagnoses made?  (1 minute 30 seconds)

                                Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? (2 minutes)


                                Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? (1 minute)

                                Do antidepressants work? (2 minutes)                 

 
Video:  Interview with Prof Peter Gotzsche "Deadly Medicines and Organized Crime: How Big Pharma has Corrupted Healthcare" (16 minutes)
 
Video:  The DSM:  Psychiatry's Deadliest Scam (1 hour 20 minutes)
 
Video:  Simple Truths About Psychiatry - Series of 10 by Dr Peter Breggin
 
Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect (article by Irving Kirsch, author of The Emperor's New Drugs:  Exploding the Antidepressant Myth)
 

 

 


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

My last drug made me feel similar to what i do now. It made me feel confused, memory loss, increased anxiety, low mood. What is that? Adverse reaction?

 

Thats what i was asking.


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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Leo1983

Oh wow.

 

What a great post Chessie.

 

Thanks alot.

 

Xmas has sent me daft.

 

I will focus on cbt.


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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ChessieCat

It may have been withdrawal symptoms from the previous drug/s and/or side effects of the new drug.

 

Just now, Leo1983 said:

Oh wow.

 

What a great post Chessie.

 

Thanks alot.

 

Xmas has sent me daft.

 

I will focus on cbt.

 

Ah, so the time I spend typing up the response has been worth it.

 

That is my Christmas present to you.  Merry Christmas.  I'm off now to get ready for the picnic with my daughter.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

Merry xmas SA.

 

Hope people survived xmas day and enjoyed the best they could. I had a drink bad move. Lesson learnt.

 

@Altostrata@Gridley@ChessieCat

 

I spoke to family yesterday and they dont like the way im feeling or living.

 

Me and my wife have agreed to see a Psychiatrist together. I want to discuss what happened to me and present the information from SA and Ian Singleton.

 

I have CBT after xmas with a team who understand iatrogenic illness. 

 

My main issues are depression which i only had on medication and even worse after stopping them.

 

Anxiety is worse in wd than ever before. Mainly fear of not healing, spending years like this. Anticipatory anxiety around family and social stuff. 

 

Everything else i had is pretty much gone. 

 

Im asking the last thing from the mods here. At 7 months off and taking into account my drug history what would ve the advice?

 

Is it best to tough it out now and attend CBT?

 

Or would going back on a drug and been on it a while, then reduce take this away and allow me a better chance to taper?

 

Im asking this for my family as i need a plan. I have been this way for 7 months and sitting another 12 - 18 - 24 months with little improvement to me is not a plan. 

 

Many thanks

 

Lee


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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ChessieCat

1.   3-4 MONTHS:  May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac/fluoxetine 20mg

 

2.   3-4 MONTHS:  March 2017 - June 2017 - Zoloft/sertraline 100mg.

 

3.   2-3 MONTHS:  July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Remeron/mirtazapine 15mg.

 

4.   2 WEEKS:  August 2017?  - December 2017 Prozac/fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks

 

5.   4 MONTHS:  August 2017  - December 2017  Lexapro/escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks.

 

6.   4 MONTHS:  March 2018 - June 2018 - Lexapro/escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks.

 

Does this put it realistically for you?  You have tried 4 different drugs for periods ranging from 2 weeks to 4 months in a total period of 2.5 years.

 

Things to consider:

 

No. 1 drug:  How did you feel on Prozac?  How did you feel when you went off it?

 

No. 2 drug:  Why did you go on sertaline?  You may have been experiencing withdrawal from #1.  How did you feel on sertraline?

 

No. 3 drug:  What made you decide to change to #3?  How did you feel on mirtazapine?

 

No. 4 drug:  Why did you return to Prozac if you had been on it previously and, presumably, it hadn't worked?  How did you feel on it?

 

No. 5 drug:  What made you decide to change to #3?  How did you feel on escitalopram?  Why did you stop it?  Why did you return to it?  How did you feel when you were taking it the second time?

 

We don't necessarily need the answers to these questions, but I think it might be a good idea if you write your responses down on paper and try and be objective.  Try to be more specific than just "horrible".

 

Have you considered that you may not tolerate psychiatric drugs?  Other than your first drug (to which you may have had a bad reaction only, there was no WD from a previous) with the others you may have been experiencing a combination of WD from previous drug plus a bad reaction to the newly introduced drug.

 

And no, nobody would be able to answer that question, simply because of all the chopping and changing you have done.  Even if you had a bad reaction to Prozac, that wouldn't mean that the others were also bad reactions.  I had a bad reaction to Prozac yet was able to take citalopram.

 

Apart from the stress from Christmas, another thing to consider is that when we are not feeling well we are focusing on how unwell we are feeling at the present time and just wishing it would stop.  There is a possibility that you have not been making an objective assessment of your symptoms (prior to Christmas).  There may have been some small improvements but because you have been focusing on how bad you feel and wondering when it will end (together with all the questions you have going around in your head) you haven't realised that in fact you aren't feeling as bad as you had been.  You could keep a daily symptom journal and rate the symptoms to gain a better perspective on how things are.  There are links here to monthly printable and computer withdrawal symptom lists as well as blank ones, with a rating included somewhere on the page.   Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

_______________________________________

 

Regarding CBT.  Yes it is good to learn CBT.  However, challenging your thoughts can sometimes be triggering and stressful during withdrawal.  We also need to learn and use calming techniques to give our brains and nervous systems a rest.

 

Wanting to do something is perfectly normal and for men I think it is an even stronger drive.  It is inbuilt in most males to want to take action to fix something.  However what our brains need is a calm environment and time without being bombarded by chemicals so that it can go back to factory settings.

_______________________________________

 

Another thing to consider before you reach for a drug "solution".  Christmas is a stressful time of year for many people.  And you have been extremely stressed in the last couple of weeks.  When members have been under stress their withdrawal symptoms increase.  You might find that incorporating several chillout sessions each day might help things to settle down.  You might decide to use meditation or just some relaxing music.  Whatever you find that can help you to relax.  To begin with you will probably have to set a reminder, but after practising things for a while they become more of a habit.  You might find in a few weeks' time that things have settled down after the Christmas madness.  And drinking alcohol can increase symptoms too!  So you need to accept that you have done something silly and accept that you may feel worse for a few days.

 

_______________________________________

 

I wrote this to another member yesterday regarding reinstatement.

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms  Post #1

 

For people whose symptoms are unbearable and feel that their only option is to go back on a psychiatric drug, then the better option is generally to reinstate the drug they were last taking (Leo:  in your case it is difficult to know which drug might be best to reinstate if that is what you decide to do because you went on and off several different drugs in a short period of time.)  However, the longer since the last time that drug was taken the less chance there is of reinstatement being successful.  If it has been a fair amount of time since getting off the drug some people might consider changing to Prozac, but like all things, the pros and cons need to be weighed up.  Changing to a different drug doesn''t always reduce the withdrawal symptoms which a person is experiencing from the previous drug because different drugs work in different ways.

 

During the time off the drug, a person's brain adapts to not getting the drug.  But nobody knows, and there are no tests to determine, how much adaptation has occurred during that time.  If a member decides to reinstate after a long time off the drug, then it is better to try a tester dose to begin with to see how they react to taking the drug again.  If after a few days things are okay then they could increase the drug by a small amount.  It is better to start with a low dose and increase if needed than to risk taking too much.

 

The idea of reinstating isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.  It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  It is best to keep daily notes of symptoms on paper so that you can objectively assess how reinstatement is affecting your symptoms.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat

 

On 8/16/2018 at 5:54 PM, Leo1983 said:

This all started from some situational anxiety at work.

 

9 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Anxiety is worse in wd than ever before. Mainly fear of not healing, spending years like this. Anticipatory anxiety around family and social stuff. 

 

You hadn't learned skills to cope with anxiety and was the reason you went on drugs in the first place.  We still need to learn coping skills for the issue we originally went on the drugs for.  The drugs numb us, that is what they do, but we may think we are coping.  However when the drugs are reduced or stopped then we still need to know how to cope with the original condition.  So some of the anxiety is the "normal you", but withdrawal can make it worse because our emotions are no longer numbed and we are dealing with other issues as well, like worrying about whether we will ever feel better.

 

9 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Everything else i had is pretty much gone.  

 

So there has, in fact, been improvement.  It think many members make the mistake of focusing on getting back to when they felt their best.  When it comes to getting off psychiatric drugs, we need to focus on improvements, however small.  We need to compare how we currently feel with how we felt at our worst, not our best.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat
9 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Im asking the last thing from the mods here. At 7 months off and taking into account my drug history what would ve the advice?

 

Is it best to tough it out now and attend CBT?

 

Or would going back on a drug and been on it a while, then reduce take this away and allow me a better chance to taper?

 

We don't know.  Nobody knows.  All we can do is provide you with information so you can make an informed decision.  Please see the previous 2 posts.

 

And only you can make the decision about what you do.

 

A word of caution (and please note that I am not making a suggestion that you go on a drug, it is simply a caution, do not try and read anything into what I say):  if you do decide to go back on a drug, start with a very tiny dose as a tester.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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eymen23

Hi Leo,

 

Not to make the decision for you or to step on Chessie’s toes, but you did mention before that these drugs haven’t helped and have only made things worse over time. 

 

Ultimately, you need to weigh up what’s most appropriate for your own situation, using the advice of the very knowledge mods here. 

 

Hope things improve. 


PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I can only provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat
31 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

or to step on Chessie’s toes

 

No, you haven't stepped on my toes.  🙂  It was an observation I had also made, see quote below.  And it was the reason I listed the drug history and also put forward some things for him to consider.

 

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you considered that you may not tolerate psychiatric drugs?


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

You know what this is all about pride. Its all about perfection and thinking Lee cant be unwell, this cant happen to me.

 

How can i let people see me like this? No ability to bluff people. What will happen if i look anxious etc etc. How can i manage this for months.

 

Its about having no balls and accepting whats happened is partly my own fault for taking a mountain of tablets thinking they would change who i was.....

 

Its all about been told over and over its fine to feel like this. 

 

Your right.... the drugs dont work, they just make you worse...... i am what i am, i dont need my frontal lobe destroyed to live life. 

 

All i want is my baseline back. No head pressure, no anxiety, no fear, no depression and most of all not thinking about wd daily because im aware im not back to me. 

 

I understand wd and how it happens. BUT i have a baseline i now have learnt to love.

 

Cheers guys. 

 

 

 

 

 


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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eymen23
8 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

You know what this is all about pride. Its all about perfection and thinking Lee cant be unwell, this cant happen to me.

 

How can i let people see me like this? No ability to bluff people. What will happen if i look anxious etc etc. How can i manage this for months.

 

 

 

 

It takes a lot of self awareness to see this and also a lot of courage to admit it. I get the sense that before all of these medications you were always (or mostly) seen as strong and resilient.

 

It is very hard to have this taken away from us, even if only temporarily. However, you can use this as a great chance to build new coping skills for life and to gain an even greater appreciation for good health. I used to take everything for granted and at the moment, any minute or hour I feel cheerful, I’m so glad of it. 

 

This is only temporary Leo, and that’s the good news. There are many many people who go through this stuff for a big chunk of their life, because they don’t get the right support or they are mislead by professionals. 

 

Try to be grateful you’ve worked out what’s happened and backed off the medication. You’re already 7 months off! Honestly, that’s amazing! 7 months closer to feeling great! 

 


PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I can only provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat

You are getting there.  However, it's easier said/written about, than done.  All of the members of SA are having to come to terms with what has happened to them.  What makes it harder is that some took a part in the situation they are in now and that can be very hard to accept.  However we need to realise that we can't change what has happened in the past.

 

Whenever anything goes wrong a human being's natural response is to try and blame someone or something.  Just look at kids, they do it all the time.

 

As an adult for anything that happens to us in life we need to work out what we have/don't have control over, ways we can work around things if we can't change it, and how we can accept something if there is no other way, and how we are going to go forward from this point.

 

It doesn't make you a weak person.  Many of us have not been taught the skills to deal with the issues that life throws at us.  And everybody has issues thrown at them, just different issues.

 

eymen has responded as I've been typing.  It's a great response.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Altostrata

I don't have much more to add. To be honest, Leo, I think you lack perspective on your problems.

 

Did you ever read any of these topics?

 

On 10/30/2018 at 12:24 PM, Altostrata said:

That's not dementia. Please don't scare yourself by calling your symptoms by dire-sounding psychiatric diagnoses.

 

You have garden-variety withdrawal syndrome from going on and off drugs many times. Good sleep is a good sign for recovery.

 

Read

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?
 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

"Is it always going to be like this?"

 

The importance of feeling good

 

Creating a new self after withdrawal

 

Protracted Withdrawal or PAWS (post-acute withdrawal syndrome)

 

What does healing from withdrawal syndrome feel like?

 

Withdrawal dialogues & encouragement

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/


http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

 

On 12/22/2018 at 7:38 PM, Altostrata said:

Leo, you do not have a special kind of withdrawal syndrome. We're telling you the same things we tell anyone in your condition. They all feel miserable. They need to help themselves get better, and you do, too.

 

Showing interest in people other than yourself can help.

 

What have you done to show interest in other people?

 

On 12/23/2018 at 12:50 AM, Leo1983 said:

Its the acceptance im struggling with. I cant be myself. 

 

I cant engage with family proply and my wife and kids. When i think of the devastation i get panic. 

 

Then i look for answers. I dont feel much improvement with mental stuff.

 

Trying to keep my job and do stuff i need to do when feeling awful. The anhedonia does nothing to keep you motivated 

 

In the US, psychiatrists only prescribe drugs. They will not coach you in reducing your self-sabotaging tendencies. They do not do couples therapy, which is something that you and your wife might need.

 

Do not expect this psychiatrist to put any credence in anything you read online, particularly this site.

 

Good luck, and best wishes for the new year.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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ChessieCat

From manny's topic in case you missed Alto's response to your post there:

 

On 12/25/2018 at 4:42 AM, Leo1983 said:

 

I do still ponder on how people who cant see you or assess you can give a solid 100 % answer that we are not suffering depression or that we are suicidal. And that this is all 100% wd and that at some point it will just vanish. 

 

I get the success stories. 

 

It does play on my mind daily am i doing the right thing here whilst everything around me is on a tight rope. 

 

Is this guna end and is it all wd??? Who knows. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Leo, not everything everyone is experiencing is withdrawal syndrome. In your case, you may well benefit from psychotherapy, which we cannot provide. I believe we've been very straightforward with you about this.

 

 


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

Thankyou.

 

Im booked in for Psychotherapy.

 

Thanks for all your time. 

 

I know myself and the thick brain, cog fog, depression so deep, lethergy etc etc that is not me doing that and i onow that is all wd. 

 

However the way im handling it is all me. But then again is it? Or is it me and ed together?. Ooh what an awful mix.

 

If you look the success stories complain and complain and complain and then 2 - 3 year later pooooomf all better. So im seeing its a time thing. 

 

I would just like to wake with aome feeling or excitment for the day. That wud be a start. Then mayve i would not moan as much. Inwas never anhedonic ever. I was a over thinker. But i must accept and do my best to pass the time. 

 

Happy New Year guys. 


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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ChessieCat

You might want to be careful about the way you start off with them.  There are not many medical professionals that recognise withdrawal syndrome and most of the ones that do think that it only last for a short while.

 

What you need assistance with is how to cope with life issues.  And withdrawal is a life issue, just as if you had developed a long term illness.  You just don't necessarily need to tell them about it.  But that is up to you.  You might want to suss them out first.  Reading these topics might offer some insight into how to talk to them:

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?


What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

I've suggested this to other members and they have found it helpful.  Jot down some notes and rehearse things that you would like to say.  You could take the notes in with you so that you have something to prompt your memory and so that you don't forget to mention something.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Share this post


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ChessieCat

And if it is suggested that you go back on a drug, I'd like to suggest that BEFORE you take anything, you post about it and the mods can give your their thoughts on whether it is a good idea or not.  Especially since any dose they suggest would probably be a lot more than we would think okay.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Share this post


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Leo1983

If i thought i would feel better in another year or so great. 

 

I have a wife, kids and professional job. I cant just sit for 5 year waiting to feel better. Then i would need a plan. Or i will end up with nothing aswell as wd. 

 

Im fortunate with my background that the professor im seeing for CBT understands what i have. He is treating me for iatrogenic illness. However he is going to look at the worry, trauma and rumination. He has been presented with Ian Singletons letter and stuff from SA. Also my local MP has wrote to parliament and they wrote back accepting AD are an issue. He KNOWS my situation. 

 

I hate drugs. They were awful. 


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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ChessieCat
2 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

Im fortunate with my background that the professor im seeing for CBT understands what i have. He is treating me for iatrogenic illness. However he is going to look at the worry, trauma and rumination. He has been presented with Ian Singletons letter and stuff from SA. Also my local MP has wrote to parliament and they wrote back accepting AD are an issue. He KNOWS my situation. 

 

That's good.  It sounds like you might have found a good one.  Good luck.  Let us know how things go.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Leo1983

Hi.

 

Alto has a discussion going some were on the site. In the discussion she talks about how her emotions came back after 1.5 years and then talks about sexual function returning and orgasm etc etc. 

 

Can anyone direct me to that discussion? I have searched the site. 

 

Thanks

 

Lee


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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Altostrata

Leo, please don't post again until you read the topics recommended in

 

Show some respect for our time, it takes consideration and effort for us to post links for you. Yes, you are coping poorly with adversity. That is all you.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Leo1983

Yeh ok.

 

Maybe i will quit my job and give up my house etc. Then i can lay on the sofa and go walking until im better. 

 

Apologies for asking for the link i could not find. 


May 2016 - Aug 2016 - Prozac 20mg

 

March 2017 - June 2017 - Sertraline 100mg. Horrific withdrawal 5 m onths.

 

July 2017 - Aug 2017 - Mirtazapine 15mg. Horrific.

 

August 2017 - December 2017 Fluoxetine 10mg for 2 weeks ghen Escitalopram 20mg for 12 weeks. Never felt normal since this. Or baseline.

 

March 2018 - June 2018 - Escitalopram 5mg for 12 weeks. Stopped and here i am full of symptoms i never had.

 

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