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Leo1983

Leo1983: SSRI withdrawal

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Leo1983

I have explained my scenario twice.

 

Im asking the only reason i took medication was to improve at work. On my days off i was fine.

 

I took meds, then went on and off due feeling ill when on them and stopping them.

 

Im now not on anything and feel worse. Is that withdrawal. As i was never low or anxious with headaches and dizziness before meds.

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ChessieCat

From the very first mod response:

 

On 8/17/2018 at 10:40 PM, manymoretodays said:

 

Yes......absolutely........you can still be in withdrawal(W/D) 8 weeks after 2 years of psychiatric drugging and a fast taper.

...

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. 

 

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Leo1983

Thanks what about at 14 weeks? Still all normal?

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ChessieCat

Please have the courtesy to read the information that is provided.  I suggest you go back and read your topic from the beginning.

 

On 9/19/2018 at 7:50 AM, Altostrata said:

 

We don't know how long your symptoms will last, Leo. All we can do is tell you to expect improvement that is very gradual and very frustrating.

 

I hope you do recover sooner rather than later. An expectation of recovery within a few months may be unrealistic and cause you undue distress should it not come about.

 

 

 

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Leo1983

Grand thanks.

 

The medical profession say we are bonkers if we think this last 12 months.

 

The website states withdrawal is hard and long lasting.

 

Its leaves you thinking which is right?.

 

My plan is to keep off all drugs now and wait and see. I was ill on the drugs anyways.

 

Thanks

 

Lee

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Altostrata
14 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Dizzy

Anxiety at all times

Balance

Nausea

Frozen brain feeling.

Headaches.

 

This is a description of classic prolonged post-withdrawal syndrome.

 

12 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Im now not on anything and feel worse. Is that withdrawal. As i was never low or anxious with headaches and dizziness before meds. 

 

What exactly are your symptoms? Are they worse at any particular time of day? How's your sleep?

 

As you were, in effect, taking antidepressants as lifestyle drugs for an uncomfortable work environment, it is likely that what you have now is withdrawal syndrome, as you have nothing to relapse back to.

 

If we could predict when any one person would recover, we would be happy to do so. This is a question many people ask, sometimes repeatedly. The answer is always exactly the same.

 

If your recovery takes place within a few months, we would all celebrate.

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Leo1983

Thanks alot.

 

Symptoms are anxiety, detachment, nothing has meaning i just do it, numb type of feeling emotionally, lethergy.

 

I sleep ok thank god. But its never refreshing now. If i have work the next day my sleep can be poor.

 

Its just not me... i would describe it as an ODD feeling daily with alot of free flowing anxiety.

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Leo1983

I have done more harm taking meds than i originally went to the docs for.

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ChessieCat

Unfortunately you are not the only one.  There are people who have had a bad reaction to taking only 1 or 2 tablets of a psychiatric drug and have suffered for years.  I understand that what you are going through is tough, but it could be much, much worse.

 

You need to learn and use non drug techniques.  The are helpful during withdrawal and also after recovery:

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Leo1983

@ChessieCat

 

I dont need your replies stating the obvious and requesting i have the courtesy to read this site. Im aware its not just me. However my story and my journey are personal to me. When i write here its for me! Not other people.

 

Why you have replied "its not just you" to a discussion between myself and @Altostrata

 

Is beyond me. The conversation was making perfect sense. Thanka Altostrata. I now have my answer. My withdrawal symptoms are classic and because i took the meds as a lifestyle choice for work then i should recover from withdrawal without relapse.

 

Regards

 

Lee

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Shep
3 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

I dont need your replies stating the obvious and requesting i have the courtesy to read this site. Im aware its not just me. However my story and my journey are personal to me. When i write here its for me! Not other people.

 

Leo, please be respectful of the moderators who are giving you information. If you read through your thread, you'll see you have repeatedly asked the same questions again and again regarding how long it's going to take and if your symptoms are normal. You also weren't interested in reinstating and instead, wanted to wait it out. ChessieCat was simply reassuring you that it's not just you and giving you some extremely helpful ways of coping to help you wait it out. 

 

By posting on the site, you are implying you want a reply. If you wish to write only for yourself and not for other people, please start a private journal. This is a great activity to do anyways because it's very helpful for symptoms such as anxiety. 

 

Journaling / Writing Therapy / Therapeutic Writing

 

3 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Why you have replied "its not just you" to a discussion between myself and @Altostrata

 

Moderators will often reply to members' questions. Alto relies on her moderators to help run the site. There are dozens of members posting daily for information and you can't expect Alto to be available for every discussion and question you have. Text communication is difficult for everyone. Please give the moderators the benefit of the doubt that we are trying to be helpful, not intrusive. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Is beyond me. The conversation was making perfect sense. Thanka Altostrata. I now have my answer. My withdrawal symptoms are classic and because i took the meds as a lifestyle choice for work then i should recover from withdrawal without relapse.

 

 

Recovery is not linear, so the concept of "relapse" is tricky. When you start to move toward healing and have a setback, that also is a part of the healing process. For more, please see:

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

 

James Heaney has a great blog where he explores these themes, such as this thread:

 

Waves and Windows in SSRI Withdrawal

 

As he writes: 

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Withdrawal is a process of alternating good times and bad.  The more you’re able to mitigate the bad with mindfulness, the shorter the waves become.  Our minds often work in feedback loops.  One thought leads to another through association, creating the pattern of our minds.  Mindfulness allows us to shape the pattern to a certain extent.  The more you can recognize that a harmful thought is just part of a wave, and not a normal part of your normal mind, the faster you’ll get to the next window.  Eventually, that last window becomes reality, and the next wave never comes.  The mindfulness you’ve developed getting there will remain, though.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

 

We do see members having waves quite aways out, especially for folks who come off cold turkey or by a rapid taper. And there also is the concept of "battle fatigue". This is the fatigue that comes from dealing with symptoms on a daily basis for months. Many of us  become more than a bit exhausted, especially with an illness that is largely discounted by the medical community and for many of us, we also have to hide it from co-workers and even friends and family. 

 

That's why we are so adamant about the non-drug coping skills - they will help you not only with the usual day-to-day withdrawal symptoms, but also with collateral damage and battle fatigue. I'm glad you are understanding that your "withdrawal symptoms are classic". That's a great start in the way of acceptance. The goal is to use these non-drug coping skills to not only navigate withdrawal, but to put you in a place of being able to handle anything that comes your way by the time you do finally reach the finish line. 

 

I hope your withdrawal is not a drawn out process and that you are feeling better soon, but please don't risk alienating and burning out the moderators just in case you do need to keep posting here. 

 

Edited by Shep
fixed typo

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Altostrata
20 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Thanks alot.

 

Symptoms are anxiety, detachment, nothing has meaning i just do it, numb type of feeling emotionally, lethergy.

 

I sleep ok thank god. But its never refreshing now. If i have work the next day my sleep can be poor.

 

Its just not me... i would describe it as an ODD feeling daily with alot of free flowing anxiety.

 

Yes, these are common post-withdrawal symptoms. Recovery will be gradual and halting.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

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Leo1983

Thanks guys.

 

Just think im abit frustrated.

 

Great advice and a blessing you are around.

 

Tc

 

Lee

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manny03
57 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Yes, these are common post-withdrawal symptoms. Recovery will be gradual and halting.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

 

I agree to this statement. I've noticed a gradual recovery, while new symptoms crop up like lower back pain, or feeling being in the boat, though its not as intense or what I called them as 'mini waves' that I'm still able to have a productive day. I just think I'm just going through the hits of withdrawals.  

 

Magnesium has tremendously helped in calming down my symptoms. Haven't tried fish oil, though having issues taking Magnesium in capsules, I take it from Orange Juice that has Vitamin D, Calcium, and fortified with Magnesium. It's helped curtail lethargy that I had since late June. 

 

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Leo1983

I have just read the Drs list and seen that 1 doctor said you would be best on the medication as your depression will come back.

 

Is this a site that agrees Psych meds are harmful and do nothing to help depression.

 

Or is it for people who just want to come off and need support with the symptoms?.

 

I was under the impression the site was all about Peter Breggins views and Peter Gotzse etc. Basically that psych drugs screw people up.

 

Its just abit confusing. @Altostrata

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Leo1983

Thanks Chessie 😀

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Leo1983

So am i right in thinking this site is saying drugs are no good and that there addictive. Its best to deal with anxiety etc with alternative options.

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ChessieCat

There is a myth in the medical community about chemical imbalance.  This was refuted many years ago, but many members, including myself, have been told things like a diabetic needs insulin we need to be on an AD for life.

 

The drugs change the brain and we become physiologically depend on them, not physically dependent like nicotine and caffeine.  If the drugs are taken away too quickly we can experience withdrawal symptoms, because the brain is trying to regain homeostasis or factory settings.

 

Right at the bottom of Post #1 in Alto's topic:

 

On 3/17/2011 at 1:50 AM, Altostrata said:

Medicine is in wide denial about the existence and severity of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, leading physicians to almost always misdiagnose withdrawal syndrome as a relapse or emergence of a psychiatric condition and treat it improperly with ever-escalating combinations of drugs, which tend to make the condition worse.

 

Psychiatry ignores the adverse effects of these drugs because writing prescriptions is how it makes its living. In reality, the best doctors will admit treatment with psychiatric drugs is trial and error, success being when the patient stops complaining.

Even though most of the drugs they purvey are truly addictive or are well known to cause physical dependency, most psychiatrists know very little about how to get patients off psychiatric drugs with a minimum of withdrawal symptoms, indicating wear and tear. There is a widespread but spurious belief that withdrawal symptoms are invariably trivial and transient.
 
SurvivingAntidepressants.org is here to document that belief and practice regarding getting patients off psychiatric drugs is incorrect and needs to be informed by real patient experience, such as mine.

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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Leo1983

Hi thanks so much. Great great information.

 

Last question.... i get the drugs are addictive. I get the chemical imbalance and the lies and money making pharma etc.

 

But do people need these drugs? Or are they just a waste of time and make people ill. Is there a place for them?

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manymoretodays

Hi Leo,

I like the wording that........ the drugs create a physiological dependency......... as compared to "I get that the drugs are addictive".  That's my understanding, although, yes, some of the drugs are more of an addictive nature.  The opiates, the benzos, and quite likely some others.

 

And I think that we......you, I, the other one..........get to form our own conclusions.  As to do people need these drugs?  And can form our own conclusions.......given the ease of getting information, and discerning information, and educating ourselves.

 

Personally, I think, that yes there is a place for some of these medications/drugs.  Short term perhaps.  And when they are given.......that full disclosure should be happening.  Meaning that the person should be given information about what they are about to ingest.........full information.  Even when in a state, where it is often assumed they cannot comprehend.  I just know......that.......for.......me.........I could always comprehend.  I might not have been able to communicate all that well.......yet, I was competent........fully competent.  And nobody ever gave me much information.  As to the effectiveness of what I was taking, and then how there were already known W/D syndromes and........well, more just facts and truth about these drugs/medications.

 

I compare it to, say........an alcoholic who might benefit from a "bit of the hair of the dog", so to speak.  Who might need a nip or even some Librium(or something in that class of drugs) to prevent a seizure. (so.....maybe some crossover here between dependencies and addiction?)

 

With low moods, excessive fears, and some of the psychoses.........I don't know if just a couple doses........or a couple weeks of a medication/drug would provide benefit beyond, what perhaps other measures could help resolve or help get a person through these states.  I like to think that, if offered, if available........that other measures could provide relief and if not relief........just perhaps honoring where a person might be at.  Time and patience would be nice.  Non drug coping with life, skills.

And then......if they do get something, a person.......well then.......that caution and harm reduction measures, should be in place and information and care is given, when they get off that something.

 

Do people need these drugs as performance enhancers?  Like to get through a work day, that they otherwise could not tolerate?  Or to get through a program of education?  Or to just plain conform sometimes?  I guess that's a societal question really.  And a personal question for those who might be trying to be something, do something, be something that just might not be a good fit?!  I wonder about that with me.......not too much anymore though........as I hate to get stuck in that.......could of, should of mentality.

 

What do you think?

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

.......and I wonder........I think we might have a topic going with a discussion like this.  I'll take a look soon and combine, if so.

Edited by manymoretodays
elaboration, additional thoughts, spacing

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Leo1983

I think if a person is actively suicidal or or so distressed by external stimuli then a medication like an antidepressant or a Anti Psychotic may be the only option to help support symptoms, whilst in crisis. Again these medications are only 1 tool in the box. No medication is a cure, they are tools to manage symptoms.

 

I think by down regulating receptors and waiting for auto receptors to die back in the brain in order for the brain in effect be disabled is a scary thought. Then we have the drugs removed and all these receptors and pathways need to up regulate again and balance out. We must not forget all the other physical side effects these drugs cause Prolonged QT, GI Bleeds, High BP, increases heart rate etc etc. Therefore its a must to rate does the benefit outweigh the risks. Because there is alot of risk.... Whilst on the drug and as we see here, more so when coming off.

 

Do i agree with use to improve performance?

 

NO.. because i strongly think my job was causing me to be anxious. Also my lifestyle of drinking and eat poor foods. However i went to my GP and was told try these medications. I now strongly believe, i caused my own anxiety, depression, sweating, panic, social anxiety the minute i started to alter a perfectly functioning system. I have in the last 2 years suffered and all along it was medication. I have not 1 positive thing to say about SSRIS and i have been on all apart from Paroxetine, but is this because there not what i needed. Wasbit a career change? Stop drinking as much? Eat better?. Would my GP have told me this? NO! He stuck me on drugs and then i fell victim to a year and a half of drugging.

 

There is a place for antidepressants for people who are in crisis and require an immediate intervention to lessen symptoms. However there needs to be more time spent in the assessment of mental health and what brings the patient to services. There also needs to be alot more awareness of side effects and withdrawal symptoms when on and tapering off. Because what alot of people are going through in withdrawal when all they want is help is Barbaric.

 

Thats my view.

 

Lee.

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Leo1983

Hi. I have a question.

 

In withdrawal why do you have anxiety when your not doing anything stressful?. Like all day every day.

 

Also why do we feel off balance and dizzy? Oh and detached.

 

Thanks

 

Lee

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Leo1983

Does anyone suffer bruxism? Teeth clenching! Is this part of withdrawal? Or part of the anxiety.

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ChessieCat

 

 

2 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Hi. I have a question.

 

In withdrawal why do you have anxiety when your not doing anything stressful?. Like all day every day.

 

Also why do we feel off balance and dizzy? Oh and detached.

 

Thanks

 

Lee

 

There are many existing topics on this site.  Please use either the site search function or google and add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

These search terms will bring up the relevant topics you are asking about:

 

survivingantidepressants.org dizzy

survivingantidepressants.org detached     (called:  Derealization or Depersonalization)

survivingantidepressants.org anxiety

 

 

2 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Does anyone suffer bruxism?

 

This one was a bit harder to find (I have now included bruxism and teeth clenching in the topic title but google hasn't picked it up yet) so I have included the link.

 

To find posts about bruxism in the topic click on the link below then type bruxism in the search bar, top right of screen, and select Search this topic, to find posts within the topic.

 

face-jaw-tongue-muscle-tension-and-pain-bruxism-teeth-clenching-tics

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Leo1983

Cheers Chess.

 

Im guna have a break from the site. Keep asking questions abt the same stuff.

 

Can i just ask 1 before i break. Does everyone get better? Do they go back to what they were?.

 

I was on and off drugs for 2 years. No more than 3 month at a time.

 

 

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ChessieCat

Thanks for letting us know you're taking a break.  Please remember to come back and give us an update.

 

success-stories-recovery-from-withdrawal

 

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Leo1983

Hi thanks.

 

There does not appear to many success stories. There appears to be more people disabled by the drugs.

 

So sad.

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ChessieCat

It is probably that people who are getting better leave the site and don't return to update on their progress.  If I wasn't a moderator I wouldn't be staying on the site because I have the information I need to taper and I no longer need the support of the site.

 

People who are healing or have healed don't stay in the hospital.

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ChessieCat

If you keep trying to find success stories you will come across a lot of very disturbing stories which will only make you worry more.  This is not helpful for your own healing.  You need to try and keep yourself as calm and stress free as possible to allow your brain and nervous system the environment it needs to recover.  It is going to take time and you will go through times when the withdrawal symptoms increase and/or change.  This is all part of the brain trying to regain homeostasis / factory settings and is "normal".

 

From:  what-does-healing-from-withdrawal-syndrome-feel-like

 

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.

 

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Leo1983

So chessie does everyone heal eventually?

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Leo1983

You say you would not be here. Are you now healed?

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Leo1983

Hi.

 

Update. 4 month CT off escitalopram.

 

Anxiety remains strong most days. Nothing like before meds.

 

Brain fog/memory still not great.

 

Headaches during the day.

 

Lethergy daily.

 

Low mood.

 

Blunted emotions/ derealization.

 

Great eh after 16 weeks. I am better but still not back to me.

 

Hope this helps. Any advice great.

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