☼ Leo1983: SSRI withdrawal

[Leo1983]

So are we saying that this won't get better unless I learn to keep myself calm? That this is not largely due to withdrawal? 

 

Messages get very mixed. 

 

Before meds I walked my dog without thought. Now I run around like some anxious wreck.

 

Before meds in would only get anxious at work if I had something a stressful on. Now I walk in like I'm having my head cut off. 

 

Before meds I used to follow what was on TV and enjoy it. 

 

Thanks

 

Lee. 

[Leo1983]

So are we saying that this is largely part of WD symptoms getting in my way and causing issues? Making life difficult?

 

Or are we saying it is me not reducing my stress enough? 

 

Because this only started with tablets and in WD. 

 

I understand using these techniques for WD. But I'm picking it up that if you don't do it yourself WD won't go away. 

[ChessieCat]

You took a large dose of Vitamin C recently.  That wasn't even 1 week ago.  You noticed the effects the next day and if nothing else changed, then you can say that it was most probably the Vitamin C that caused the issues you are experiencing.  It may take a little while for things to settle down again.

[Leo1983]

Chessie I have felt like this for 5 Month. I had 1 day were I felt better. 

[Leo1983]

I took magnesium last night and anxious this morning. I'm just not guna take anything. 

[Leo1983]

Can you please answer my question?.

 

I am aware that in life we need to challenge thoughts and that a CBT approach must be adopted. We all have issues. I have done this for years, I'm a CPN. 

 

What I'm not used to is WD and did not know this could happen.

 

You have me thinking now that it's not WD making my life difficult and that it's me the way I'm thinking.  

 

In still do all my CBT or I would not get anywhere. But what about the DP anxiety low mood etc etc. 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Leo1983 said:

You have me thinking now that it's not WD making my life difficult and that it's me the way I'm thinking.  

 

You have been on psychiatric drugs which your brain adapted to.  You have gone off the drugs.  Your brain is trying to adapt to not getting the drugs which it was used to getting.  The result of going off the drugs is withdrawal symptoms.  I'm following SA's tapering protocol (no more than 10% of current dose about every 4 weeks) and even though they are mild, I am still experiencing withdrawal symptoms, and at times of stress they increase.  Even members who have done a slow taper and are now off their drug (BrassMonkey for example) still experience occasional mild withdrawal symptoms, especially if stressed or they get ill.

 

We also need to treat ourselves gently during this time and make allowances for ourselves.  If you had a broken leg you wouldn't expect to go out and kick a football around.  You would take care of yourself so that the break healed.  Your brain needs to heal and it needs TLC and time.

 

So yes, you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.  And remember, healing isn't linear.  Symptoms can come and go and come back again, at different severity, for different amounts of time and the symptom can also change.  You need to remember that your brain is adapting.  It's unfortunate that we can't see what it happening.  It would make it easier if we could.  I like the Rubik's cube analogy in this video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

And yes, part of it is the way you are thinking.  But it's not always about challenging your thoughts.  When I get a withdrawal symptom I notice it but try to stay as calm as possible.

 

On 10/16/2015 at 5:01 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  A concept stolen from Claire Weekes.  It is a process for handling situations that you have no control over.  Acknowledging the situation/symptom, getting to know it on a personal level.  Accepting that the situation/symptom is there, its real and there is nothing you can do about it. Letting the Situation/symptom Float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's sort of like dealing with an unwanted house guest.  At first you get to know them and make them comfortable.  Then you realize they are not making any effort to leave and there is nothing you can do, but ignore them as best as you can until they go away.

 

 

I've just searched your topic and Claire Weekes has been mentioned several times, by me and at least one other member.  Have you checked out any of her videos on YouTube?

 

There are things which you can do to make the journey of recovery a bit easier.  It's up to you to try different things to see what works for you.  It's good to have some different ones because what might work one day or for one of our symptoms, might not work at a different time with a different symptom.  It's about trial and error.

 

Are you drinking alcohol or caffeine drinks?  These are things which can contribute to worsening your symptoms.  Sometimes food can too.  Are you getting enough regular sleep?  Are you eating healthily?

 

When you exercise do you overdo it?  Some members have had to cut back on the strenuousness of their exercise and do light exercise instead because it can ramp up their symptoms.

 

If you keep a symptoms diary and include what you do throughout the day and what food and drink you ingest and your sleep, you might find that there is something which worsens your symptoms.

 

I hope what I have written helps you.

 

If it doesn't, I suggest you go back through your topic from the beginning and visit the many links which have already been provided.

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by ChessieCat

[Leo1983]

So I pick from that basically what I have is WITHDRAWAL!  and I should expect symptoms from been on a drug and stopping it. My brain is healing like a wound would heal. I stopped CT so that's does not help. 

 

What your saying to me is you need to learn techniques to manage your life whilst in WITHDRAWAL! And they will also serve you well once you HEAL. 

 

Is this correct.

 

 

 

[Leo1983]

I drink decaff coffee 

 

I can't exercise to lethargic and Anhedonic. 

 

I will look at Claire weakes now. 

 

Food I can look at that. 

[Leo1983]

No alcohol since CT. 

[ChessieCat]

2 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

What your saying to me is you need to learn techniques to manage your life whilst in WITHDRAWAL! And they will also serve you well once you HEAL. 

 

Yes!  Yes!  Yes!  That's exactly it.

[Leo1983]

I know I'm pushing my luck. 

 

I understand it all now I honestly do. 

 

1 last thing to clear my anxious mind. The anxiety for no reason, the depression I never had, the anhedonia, the balance, the cog fog. 

 

All these things are from withdrawal? From the brain healing and not from the way I am thinking? It's not me making all these happen?? Because as positive as I am I am still off balance and anxious even reading the paper. 

 

 

Thanks so much. 

 

Lee

[ChessieCat]

Withdrawal symptoms take many forms.  Check out this list:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Before I went on Pristiq I CTed citalopram which I had been on for many years.  I felt great for a couple/few months, better than I had felt in a long time, but not sure for how long.  Then bam.  I ended up in bed with what I thought was the flu for about 2.5 weeks.  I lost 8kgs because I had no appetite.  I then went totally flat, which was probably severe anhedonia.  When I joined here I realised that it had been delayed withdrawal.

 

Of course back then I didn't know about reinstating the same drug.  I ended up on Pristiq which thankfully "covered" the withdrawal symptoms.  However, when I tried to reduce my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg I suffered an upset stomach for several days and then developed very bad cog fog, even walking took my full concentration.  After the 3 weeks I couldn't type and being a professional typist for 40+ years I had a benchmark and knew something was wrong.  I took extra Pristiq and after only about 4 hours I could type again and the cog fog was lifting.

 

My two very different experiences provide a good example of what stopping a drug too quickly can do.  And it was the drug.  It had absolutely nothing to do with how I was thinking or what I was doing or not doing.  Psychiatric drugs change the brain.  When it doesn't get the drug, it tries to regain homeostasis or factory settings.  And as a consequence of this we experience withdrawal symptoms.  That's why SA recommends tapering, which sneaks the drug away a small amount at a time and allows the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  It doesn't stop the withdrawal symptoms completely but they are generally milder.  So it's a take away a bit, do a bit of healing, take away a bit more and do a bit more healing etc.

 

Check out the submissions to the Scottish Parliament.  What is good about reading these is that they are concise versions of their stories, instead of reading through members' topics here.  Scroll down a bit and you will see the PDF documents which you can read:  http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

And this:  

 

[Leo1983]

Ok so these DRUGS have caused this situation. My situation was very similar to yours. 10 weeks after CT I was in full blown withdrawal. All of Dr Glenmullens symptoms which I had not had before.

 

My plan.

 

To accept my situation for what it is, knowing that like many people who have healed I have the same symptoms and follow a very familiar pattern.

 

I must learn to find coping skills to accept the way it is NOW! However I must be aware that I too will heal and these symptoms are not forever. I must also understand that I CT the drug thankfully after a short time however it will take months to heal. 

 

And of course I must see that the skills I learn now will be very valuable for the future once my symptoms go.

 

" One day at a time

 

Thanks CC

 

Lee.  

[ChessieCat]

👍

[Happy2Heal]

3 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

Ok so these DRUGS have caused this situation. My situation was very similar to yours. 10 weeks after CT I was in full blown withdrawal. All of Dr Glenmullens symptoms which I had not had before.

 

My plan.

 

To accept my situation for what it is, knowing that like many people who have healed I have the same symptoms and follow a very familiar pattern.

 

I must learn to find coping skills to accept the way it is NOW! However I must be aware that I too will heal and these symptoms are not forever. I must also understand that I CT the drug thankfully after a short time however it will take months to heal. 

 

And of course I must see that the skills I learn now will be very valuable for the future once my symptoms go.

 

" One day at a time

 

 

You got it!! 

 

it won't be easy but you can do it!

you're already doing many good things to help yourself, keep doing those and try other ways to help calm yourself or distract yourself, or whatever the situation needs

 

you will end up feeling much stronger and very proud of yourself for having done the work and gotten thru this.

 

 

[Leo1983]

Can i ask what the bone pain indicates just for my information. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Leo!

I just moved your question. 

Can you do a search?  I just did one.  I usually just type in survivingantidepressants and then the topic I want to find in my main browser, offsite.

On site, you can go to the appropriate section.....be it symptoms and self care or tapering, or elsewhere and just type in the topic you want to know more about too.

 

Sounds like you are making some great progress Leo.  I'm proud of you!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

p.s.  you could always go back and let Asta know what you found?  Just a thought.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by manymoretodays

[Leo1983]

Thanks many.

 

It's been a tough 6 Month as you know. 

 

I hope your feeling ok. 

[Leo1983]

@Altostrata

studies have not only built a case for a biological link between bone and the brain, but also suggested that SSRIs may be particularly harmful to bone. Researchers have identified several possible mechanisms linking brain and bone. Studies have reported that depression elevates levels of both the stress hormone cortisol and various immune system cells that promote inflammation—changes that can harm bone. More recently, scientists have discovered that bone cells have receptors for various brain chemicals and may be responsive to changes in the brain. 

 

could this be a theory. 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by ChessieCat
reduced font

[ChessieCat]

Click on this link from-journals-and-scientific-sources, click in the search bar (top right) and select This Forum, type bone in the search bar and click on the magnifying glass.

[manymoretodays]

Doing well, thanks Leo.

Interesting.

[Altostrata]

11 hours ago, Leo1983 said:

I know I'm pushing my luck. 

 

I understand it all now I honestly do. 

 

1 last thing to clear my anxious mind. The anxiety for no reason, the depression I never had, the anhedonia, the balance, the cog fog.  

 

All these things are from withdrawal? From the brain healing and not from the way I am thinking? It's not me making all these happen?? Because as positive as I am I am still off balance and anxious even reading the paper. 

 

 

Thanks so much. 

 

Lee

 

Your nervous system, particularly the autonomic nervous system, adapted to the drugs and has become dysregulated from withdrawal. See What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 

It is a complex system that will need time to re-establish normal functioning, see  The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Yes, there are connections between the nervous system and the bones; the autonomic nervous system controls pain perception as well. It's all connected.

[Leo1983]

Great as long as it's damage and not my " Stinking Thinking " that is the cause. 

 

Many thanks

 

 

[Leo1983]

Using Ssris in menopause can cause an increase in bone fractures by 76%.

 

Ssris are bad for bones and increase risk of fractures and bone growth in general.

 

The higher levels of serotonin prompted by the SSRI drug disrupted the ability of the hypothalamus region of the brain to promote bone growth.

 

looks like there is many issues with bones. 

[ChessieCat]

Found this topic when looking for something else:  nurses-talk-about-odd-physical-symptoms

 

And this post in particular from this site's owner:

 

On 9/20/2015 at 11:37 AM, Altostrata said:

There are many Papers on diagnosis of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome , but few doctors have read them, being educated mostly by drug company propaganda from the early 1990s until the last few years, when the antidepressants started going off patent.
 
That's 20-30 years of misinformation. And very few studies follow patients long enough to identify prolonged withdrawal syndrome, so that's not even on the radar.
 
A nursing journal published this series Howland 2010 Potential adverse effects of discontinuing psychotropic drugs reviewing withdrawal effects from all types of psychiatric drugs.

 

 

[Leo1983]

Thanks CC.

 

Just about to start my 13hr shift. 

 

Learnt a lesson last night. Don't watch boxing before work. Went to bed 12am woke at 4am. 

 

Now for my shift. My sleep is never refreshing atm anyways. 😢

[Leo1983]

Hi.

 

Can i ask morning Cortisol. We all have it to wake us up. 

 

BUT - in withdrawal is something making it worse in the morning?

 

Just before I stopped tablets I did not wake up like Freddy Kruger was sat at my bedside. 

[Leo1983]

People say WD gets easier in the afternoon. 

 

Is this not just normal body stuff? Or is it withdrawal.

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on this site.  I like to use google and add survivingantidepressants.org to my search term.

 

waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes

[Leo1983]

Hi.

 

Flu jab in withdrawal?

 

I work in a hospital and i have declined it.

 

Any advice welcome. 

[ChessieCat]

On 11/12/2018 at 7:28 PM, ChessieCat said:

There are many existing topics on this site.  I like to use google and add survivingantidepressants.org to my search term.

 

[Leo1983]

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Leo. You might find these topics interesting:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

 

"Is it always going to be like this?"

 

The importance of recognizing you're feeling good

 

Protracted Withdrawal or PAWS (post-acute withdrawal syndrome)

 

What does healing from withdrawal syndrome feel like?

 

Withdrawal dialogues & encouragement

[ChessieCat]

6 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

The importance of recognizing you're feeling good

 

Oooo, hadn't seen this one.  Must check it out.