Older female issues: perimenopause, menopause, and withdrawal

[Petunia]

Similar topics merged

 

See also:

 

Hot Flashes/Flushes

[AliG]

I find bio- identical hormones valuable. I dont think of them as "evil". I do think they are compatible . [ unlike A/D drugs!!]

[Fresh]

Hi all ,     I'm having similar issues , and discussed it today with Dr Lucire  (see my signature below).    My gp told me that if I want to use Sandrena gel , I need to take Provera (progesterone) as well.

 

Dr Lucire said not to use any progesterone at all - it may induce depression.    She advised to just use the gel , not even a whole envelope , just a little , for relief from heat waves.   

She had given me this during my w/d due to extreme temperature dysregulation , but it didn't help at that time.

 

Fresh

[Meimeiquest]

I am looking into possibly treating my sleep problem (wide awake every day at 3 a.m.) with progesterone as all my other symptoms from a rapid benzo drop have subsided. This article by Dr. Mercola is the most interesting zi've found and may explain some of the issues. I am thinking of measuring in 1/8 tsp increments. Would love any thoughts from you who have gone before!

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/18/oral-progesterone-and-progesterone-cream-complications.aspx

[Meimeiquest]

Well, I have tried progesterone. I had a blood test that showed hormones within normal limits, but estrogen/progesterone ratio was high. It was pretty effective at the ordered dose (it was dispensed in a bottle with a pump, I was to use one pump-worth a day. HOWEVER it sedates me too much in the daytime, and a lower dose does nothing. So I am going to save it for emergency use. By the time I had an appointment to review the blood tests, my sleep had started to improve anyway. Shocking, I know

[trouper]

hello all,

i have been on the mirena for almost 5 years now (IUD with low dose progestin) and it is time to take it out. I've been in protracted withdrawal for 25 months now after a too short taper form zoloft. my periods stopped but i had spotting about twice a year after i got on mirena but since WD i only had spotting once about 6 months ago and again currently. i'm trying to decide if i should replace the mirena with a new one or just keep it out and see what my body does. i am scared the mirena has been helping me more than i know and that i may stir the pot by having it removed. i have had some PMS (emotional, moody) while on mirena but not as bad as it is when i am on nothing. any advice is greatly appreciated!

[Hangingon]

A friend mentioned that perhaps at 50 yrs old menopause is kicking in and exasperating my protracted withdrawal ( that no one believes anymore as it's been 10 months since finished last drug taper)

Wondering if treating menopausal symptoms would alleviate some of the anxiety/ panick attacks....

Is it safe to use hormone replacement therapy or use supplements to balance ? I know that the use of some supplements may exasperate symptoms.....

[NJJ]

Hi Hangingon,

 

Although I'm much younger than you I went through a stage where I had a hormone imbalance and I went to a specialist who have me provera (synthetic progesterone), It helped my cycle for about a month but I developed such a severe headache worse than I've ever experienced and saw that was one the side effects I discontinued it. The specialist thought id overacted but as soon as I stopped it the headaches disappeared. I then did some searching and found out that a doctor in America (dr john lee) developed a biodentical progestrone cream to balance hormones. I thought it may of been a gimmick but I thought what the hec, brought the cream and his books over the net. Within a month my cycle improved, hormone imbalance symptoms dramatically improved. In his book he also says that to get an accurate reading of your hormones it's best to get it done through a saliva test. Also wether or not your taking the cream if your levels through a blood test won't give you an accurate reading. (Some scientific explaination about binding, can't remember). I got my saliva test done by a compound pharmacist who interprets your results and suggests natural therapies) of course current meds have to be taking into account. Also my auntie who's around your age started taking some through dr Lees guidelines. He is no longer with us but his family carry on his great work.

 

http://www.johnleemd.com/cgi-johnleemd/sb/ss_mb.cgi?storeid=*161419c91a8840620749a04f38&ss_parm=A8c74cd4383477cbeceed7e87c81ab39c

[NJJ]

Lol sorry I just reread my post and it's all over the place, must be tired. I was going to say my auntie began using the cream and noticed an improvement in her symptoms.

[Hangingon]

Thank you. I am concerned with treating any condition as I've read here that supplements, other mess, etc can make the withdrawal worse. I've tried the supplement route and it didn't work

[chicken]

I fixed my imbalance with blackstap molasses and raw apple cider vinegar with the mother. See my ph thread in my sig line.

[Altostrata]

merged similar topics

[JanCarol]

I cannot help but to wonder how much of my "craziness" was hormone related.  They weren't so hip on good HRT in the 80's.  I always had extreme, sometimes violent PMS.  I learned to recognize when I was just "not myself", and not to make important decisions during that time (they would usually be regrettable).  What was more difficult was stopping the strong impulses to scream, hit, bite, when I felt I was marginalized or not being taken seriously (when really, I probably shouldn't have been taken seriously at that time).

 

The Mercola article, along with many breast cysts, leads me to believe I was likely estrogen dominant.  I tried wild yam cream and progesterone cream in the 90's, but couldn't quite "believe in it," as it was kind of new age-y and, well, new at the time.  Additionally, I found it difficult to be consistent with it, and so, difficult to get a result.

 

Now, I am wayy beyond all that (post hysterectomy menopausal about 10 years now), but it is easy to see how a hormone imbalance (include thyroid in there, too), could've led to my behaviour being diagnosed.

[tryingtosurvive]

I feel like I am pregnant or in menoposal PMS but I am neither (30 years and not pregnant ..).  13 years (since I was 16 and still had no period) I have taken prozac. I had my period during Prozac not Always regular but in periods ... BUT now after the SSRI is out of my body ( last 3 mg Prozac I took in july this year so should be all out now... )  Is it normal after SSRI treatments that hormones get ****** up?

No energy, super Moody , tense swollen breasts, irregular or no period, weight gain, sweatings...

Any one experienced /read something about this ?

 

Grateful to your response!

//trying to survive..

Edited December 6, 2015 by Petunia
inappropriate language

[reachingforthestars]

Did you taper too fast? Sorry, it was a bit difficult for me to follow your signature.

[Julz82]

Hi TryingToSurvive,

 

I am currently tapering off benzos and I have felt a direct effect on my cycle. I believe a lot of women get revved up withdrawal symptoms around the time of their period, as do I, but I have also noticed that I can feel any little hormonal change in my body - everything seems magnified in withdrawal.

 

I would personally not be surprised that it is withdrawal, there is a lot of talk about wd and adrenal fatigue (obviously our whole body works as one system), I do not know what to make of it. Anyway, I am 33 and if I were you I'd probably get some bloodwork done to see what is going on.

 

Take care of yourself and best of luck in your journey!

Julz xx

[bromor]

I agree ~ hormonal imbalance & adrenal fatigue can cause anxiety and exacerbate WD symptoms. I personally am working with a naturopath doc who has studied functional medicine to support my body.

[tryingtosurvive]

I agree ~ hormonal imbalance & adrenal fatigue can cause anxiety and exacerbate WD symptoms. I personally am working with a naturopath doc who has studied functional medicine to support my body.

What are you using ? I am thinking progesterone. And maybe do a hormonal test . Otherwise all I take now is D-vitamine and magnesium. Grateful to your replies

/trying.....

[bromor]

If you can afford it, work with a naturopath. But the caveat is finding a good one!! I can pm you the doctors name that I just started working with. He helps people all over the country. It's best to have the testing done before supplementing. However, you can add in whole food vit c to help with the mag absorption. I do take compounded natural progesterone and use Progessence Plus from young living essential oils. For me, I found that my DHEA to cortisol ratio is completely skewed ~ which makes me feel like I'm in a constant state of high anxiety. Anyway, I just feel quite strongly that we must support our bodies before tapering to help minimize the WD effects. ????. Which I definitely haven't done in the past but am doing now!

[katieb]

My guess is both. Double wammy of horrible sympton including radical change in menstrual cycle. Bleeding 3 times in 5 weeks!.Headaches , migraine.Horrible pelvic cramps which I haven't had up until 3 months ago.Night sweats, hot and cold the list goes on all along with my long list of withdrawl sympton. I'M 47.

Just for the record I have had recent pap smear and scans all which came back normal.Any body else feel they might be entering into perimenopause?

[bromor]

I highly recommend hormone testing. Peri menopause can mimic WD ~ at least it did for me.

[katieb]

I feel that it's both as at the moment especially when I'm bleeding I feel soo bad.Whenever I had my period in withdrawl (paroxatine currently 1.45 ml) in the past my symptoms would get worse during this time

, but recent it seems to be way worse with added extras.

[peggy]

if you are 47 with those exacerbated symptoms it is likely to be perimenopause. A blood test can tell you  - I asked my Dr once about that and she said not really necessary unless you have symptoms  - you could consider going onto birth control tabs if the bleeding/cramps get too much.

[bromor]

Don't just go on birth control ~ find out why your body is doing what it is. Are there any functional med doctors in your area? My WD symptoms get way worse during my cycle too. I'm doing natural things to help

[Meimeiquest]

The Period Repair Manual by Lara Briden is supposed to be good. Her blog is larabriden.com.

[Vonnegutjunky]

I'm glad I'm Not the only person wondering this- I had elevated fsh levels last year and my gp said I was in Peri - also my symptoms of wd are so similar to peri - it's frustrating - also my windows and waves follow a specific 2 week cycle - every 2 weeks I feel like I cannot function (I no longer really have my visitor, she came once this whole year) - don't know what to do even if it is peri - I don't think it's helps at all ????

[Petunia]

I was having symptoms of perimenopause several years before I quit my AD. I was tested, but the results came back negative, but I was sure that's what was going on, I wanted to go on HRT to stop the symptoms, which I did and it helped. Then I quit lexapro, withdrawal hit, my cycle became very irregular, hot flashes increased and I didn't know what was going on either. The HRT no longer worked, it seemed to make symptoms worse, but I wasn't sure, so I stopped. I tried bio identical creams, but they caused worse symptoms too, so I gave up on those. But 4 years later I'm in complete menopause, still in withdrawal, but most of the peri symptoms have settled down, so for me, it was probably a combination of both.

 

Drugs and supplements which might relieve symptoms of perimenopause in a stable nervous system, can have the opposite effect while in withdrawal, this has been true for me. It can become very complex and its unlikely any doctor or naturopath  will understand what's happening or be able to provide much help if your nervous system is sensitized by withdrawal.

 

Katieb, given your age and situation, I would assume its both.

 

I found that Black Cohosh helped a bit with the sweating and flashes, not much but a bit. I don't need it any more because those are two of the symptoms which settled down for me now.

 

Also see: Hormone Therapy

[katieb]

Thanks petunia and everyone for your replies..Im inclined to agree with you.The uncertainty is a bummer but have to just get on with it.This wd really has been the worst time of my life and at times seems too much and never ending. THANK GOD for an understanding husband.

[SquirrellyGirl]

I had been on the pill my whole life, and came off it at the same time that I went off Effexor too fast - OUCH!  No doctor ever discussed whether I should still be on them late in to my 40's, never suggested it would be good to take a break along the way...My mom went into menopause at 42 and my sister was done at 50, and I'd had virtually no bleeding on my week off for a long time, so decided I was probably menopausal. I wanted to get rid of every reason for having no libido! 

 

I got slammed with brain fog, intense sweats day and night (drenched sheets), increased heart rate and BP,  and the burning skin sensation which I thought might be due to menopause, so sought testing and bio-identical hormones.   My doctor started me at a low dose with no testosterone, even though all my hormones were in the tank  The creams did nothing for me, and my mood was so low, but by now I was having severe anxiety, insomnia, and depression, which I now believe were protracted Effexor wd hitting even though I didn't know about WD at the time.  

 

Maybe the cream caused the emotional symptoms to get worse, not sure.  My mom remembers taking estrogen like everyone else but that it made her feel apathetic, so she was suggesting that maybe the BIHR was the problem.  However, I remember having the problems before the cream, pursuing testing and replacement hoping that that would be an answer.

 

I stayed on the same script, no changes.  I was put on Remeron because I became so desperate, and it helped initially but then not, as I kept increasing the dose.  Finally, reinstated Effexor and I was right as rain within an hour!    I have just kept using the BIHR because, now that I knew about WD, I didn't want to tweak anything else.  Oh, the hot flashes and burning skin went away once I reinstated so I'm thinking that Effexor WD had a huge part to do with those symptoms!

 

I would say I'm pretty steady, still on the low dose cream.  Still don't want to change that while tapering.  Can't say that my libido is any better, and I am having female problems down there with sex that my gyn thinks is due to menopause, though using very expensive estrogen cream down there hasn't made much difference.  Desperate to recover my sex life, which disappeared when I began Prozac now 20 years ago, never to return.  It sucks to always be acting "as if" when at this point I'd be happy to never have sex again!

 

SG

[Help777]

I haven't been able to find an answer on this. I am wondering if I am more sensitive to my estrogen dose during/after withdrawal. I wonder if I shoukd reduce my patch.
I am currently on a fairly high dose of estradot patch 150 (2x75). I asked the dr to go higher a few years ago after the hyserectomy to cover the insomnia, depression and hot flahes even though the pharmacist has been concerned about my high dose.
I wonder now that I've withdrawn from effexor if I am more sensitive to the estrogen and it could be adding to my anger and crying that is lasting a large part of the day? Any insight you have would be really appreciated. Thank you,

Edited August 29, 2016 by KarenB
merged topics

[O2bhappy]

My crying spells started 3 months after I went off Prozac. I cry everyday for no reason, somedays are worse then others. Since I stopped Prozac I started getting hot flashes and night sweats. I am sure the Prozac mask my symptoms of menopause. How do you manage the crying spells?

Edited August 29, 2016 by KarenB
merged threads

[Vonnegutjunky]

I have every symptom of low progesterone -

I am in peri now- and once a month before my time of the month I get hit with a wave - a really bad wave

Does anyone have suggestions for a natural way to increase my progesterone? Not supplements, but diet?

I don't want to take anything as I'm doing really well now, 3 out of 4 weeks of the month. I don't want to take something that may set my healing back -

 

Thanks

[JanCarol]

I ran across this article in an old herbal of mine:

 

 

Black Cohosh* - Black Cohosh is the non-synthetic answer that assists in providing menopausal relief.  It helps to support they physiology of a woman, especially during stress, and is well known for supporting female health around the time of menopause.  Black Cohosh is an herb native to eastern North America, where it was widely used by Native American tribes.

Studies document that Black Cohosh can help support the physical and emotional changes that occur in a woman's body over time, including occasional sleeplessness and the day-to-day anxiety associated with menopause.  It also has supportive influence on the mood changes that may accompany the menopausal years, and helps alleviate hot flashes and night sweats.

 

A study of perimenopausal and post menopausal women found that both 39 mg or 127 mg per day dosages of Black Coshosh were effective for helping to relieve symptoms associated with menopause¹ In a second four-week study, 21 women given a black coshosh preparation for four weeks reported a daily reduction in the number of hot flashes by 50%².  Reductions were also reported for fatigue, sweating, and occasional sleeplessness.

 

¹Liske, E., et al. Physiological investigation of a unique extract of black cohosh (Cimicifugua racemosea rhizoma): a 6-month clinical study demonstrates no systemic estrogenic effect.  Journal of Women's Health & Gender-Based Medicine.  2002.  11(2):163-174

2Pockaj, B. et al. Pilot evaluation of black cohosh for the treatment of hot flashes in women.  Cancer Investigation. 2004 22(4). 515-521

 

*contains claims not evaluated by the FDA

 

Though the title of the first study seems to indicate "no systemic estrogenic effect," there were some "side" effects noted?

 

As always consider new supplements gradually - starting with 1/4 or 1/3 dose and working up to a full dose, as there are some mood properties of this herb, and anyone in withdrawal might react to anything!

[WinningThrough]

This is an interesting thread. I haven't managed to read much of it but it's got my interest.

 

I've wondered more and more whether lots of this has to do with menopause. From a lot of the reading I've done about withdrawal, it really seems these drugs mess with people's hormones. They give out psych drugs FOR menopause (crazy idea) so they MUST be having an impact on hormones. Men suffer all the same crazy symptoms women do but maybe psych drugs mess with male hormones too. I mean, there's a male menopause isn't there? It's not talked about much but maybe men go through horrible hormone changes and don't know what's happening to them because it's not talked about.

 

I had shed loads of perimenpause symptoms (but I loved life because I wasn't mentally affected and could function normally). I then got close to full menopause, started having hot flashes every half hour and got a menopause related infection which I should have treated naturally but took antibiotics instead. The one I took is known for being nasty. And bam.

 

But having said all that, I hit my last period around the same time as all this and was already having loads of hormone related anxiety. after my last period and the antiobiotics I went nuts! I can't be sure how much was reaction to antibiotics and how much was crazy hormones and a big drop in oestrogen.

 

A little over three years post menopause I'm still having insane hot flushes and so many of my symptoms could be menopausal. I have all the listed symptoms.

 

I've had my oestrogen and progesterone levels tested and both are very low as I expected they would be.

 

What I don't understand is, I imagine ALL women must have low hormones after menopause so why do some sail through it with no symptoms and others have every symptom in the book? And why, if the hormones pretty much go as low as they are going to and are unlikely to come back up on their own, do women continue to have symptoms? My hormones aren't yo-yoing anymore. My levels are the same as they were a year ago. So surely I should be symptom free if they've levelled out???

 

It's a minefield really! I'm seriously considering hormonal help now. I may have a reaction but at least I'd know if it was going to help or not.

[O2bhappy]

WinningThrough -

 

I went into early menopause three years ago. While on Prozac I had minimal symptoms of menopause, except the occasionally hot flash. Several months after going off Prozac I started having constant hot flashes, night sweats, crying and anger. Those could also be symptoms of withdrawal. At times I don't know if it is menopause symptoms or withdrawal. I guess it could be a combination of both. I would think after being in menopause for three years that our bodies would adjust to the low levels of hormones and we wouldn't still be dealing with menopause symptoms.

[O2bhappy]

Can withdrawal worsen the symptoms of menopause?