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manny03

☼ manny03: withdrawal from Trintellix / Brintellix / vortioxetine

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manny03
On 1/14/2019 at 11:40 AM, eymen23 said:

That’s awful Manny. I’m glad you didn’t end up increasing doses and/or switching medications, you could have ended up going for years with more and more problems building up. 

 

I know the anger you feel for the psychiatrist. I had an appointment last week where I told the psychiatrist a calm and honest review of my time on Escitalopram, explaining I’ve felt lots of anxiety in my stomach and I’ve had crying spells. He said that as I’ve not had panic attacks (I very rarely have these anyway) the medication is partially effective and he recommends I up it to the maximum dose!  

 

It sounds to me like you’re doing well (for a cold turkey withdrawal), even though I bet it feels like hell at times. 

 

Keep strong and I hope you get more healing! 

 

 

 

I would had been in a world of hurt if the Psych began to play and just shove medications at me, and screwed up my CNS even more. 

 

Just augment the dose, no lets see what could be the cause of this. In my case, my psychiatrist was falling asleep during my appointment, which frustrated me even more, and made me realize he never cared about me. I'm just a dollar sign for him. 

 

With my withdrawal, you're right. There's moment's I'm fine, I could eat Ice Cream, laugh or just watch something calmly, then, there other moments were I have my G.I symptoms, or when I'm around people, I have a case of the tremors. There moments I wished I could had tapered, though sadly how everything occurred, this was my only option. 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
removed blasphemy

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eymen23

Honestly, I think the way things have worked out is going to end up being a good path for you. Although you won’t get the benefits of a slow taper, you are off now and thankfully things are not too bad. You did the best you could given the circumstances (violent behaviour and poor psychiatrist), so I hope you’re proud of that. 

 

Although I get angry at these psychiatrists and what they say, part of me feels very sorry for them. I can’t imagine working in a job where you truly help very few people and are constantly playing guessing games on how to find the right drug or dose for somebody. I know that I certainly wouldn’t be able to do it as a profession! 

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manny03
17 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

Honestly, I think the way things have worked out is going to end up being a good path for you. Although you won’t get the benefits of a slow taper, you are off now and thankfully things are not too bad. You did the best you could given the circumstances (violent behaviour and poor psychiatrist), so I hope you’re proud of that. 

 

Although I get angry at these psychiatrists and what they say, part of me feels very sorry for them. I can’t imagine working in a job where you truly help very few people and are constantly playing guessing games on how to find the right drug or dose for somebody. I know that I certainly wouldn’t be able to do it as a profession! 

 

It breaks my heart since I've had a rough life, never trusted anyone, and in my darkest moment, I went to them for help since I felt I was lost. They told me, the side effects won't matter since I'll feel better psychologically. Now, I fear that me trusting them have perhaps led me to a path were my body is permanently damaged or worse. It doesn't help that I suffer from Hypochondria. For example, When I had the battery of abdominal tests (blood work and ultrasounds) the MD asked my medical conditions, and I mentioned my mental disorders. She looked at me and giggled at me.  She said, hypochondria, seriously? I smiled, though inside I felt I truly lost. 

 

Though, i think far better for me to suffer than me being in a psych ward, and my mother beaten up, fearing to get near me.   

 

I've come to the moment, I fear coming close to doctors since from what I've experienced, they've done far more harm than good. Though, not having a choice, I'll do my yearly physical and leave it at that. If I need psychological help, I try to find a therapist or self-help programs and leave it at that. Psychiatrists have burned their bridge with me. 

 

 

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eymen23

Health anxiety is no fun at all. I experienced that a lot several years ago. At the time I was a very healthy 23 year old who was active, ate well and with little family history of serious illness. Yet, I would find myself fixated on one thing after the next. 

 

Have you tried mindfulness or cbt for your health anxiety? Both have helped me previously. 

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manny03
Just now, eymen23 said:

Health anxiety is no fun at all. I experienced that a lot several years ago. At the time I was a very healthy 23 year old who was active, ate well and little family history of serious illness. Yet, I would find myself fixated on one thing after the next. 

 

Have you tried mindfulness or cbt for your health anxiety? Both have helped me previously. 

 

The psychologists I've gone with haven't being trained to do it, and I know I need that to help me cope with these issues. When I begin shopping for psychologists I'll make sure to find someone who uses CBT. 

 

Same here. Like you, I was a healthy 27 year old who would run three to five miles daily, eat healthy, no health issues, though as soon as I graduated from university, that's when you know what hit the fan, and began to have anxiety attacks, which later became hypochondria with me focusing on spots, then later on weird pains and aches cropping up with no organic causes. Now, at 33, I feel that my anxiety and now my withdrawals have robbed me from my former life. I wish I was well enough to back and get a job, find a life partner, and live a normal life like everyone else. Sadly, I was given a bad set of cards, and now I just need to deal with it. 

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manny03

Update 

 

well I went to my psychologist who didn't believe I'm still suffering from withdrawal with The Guardian article mentioning the new withdrawal protocols needing to be done since the current ones are wrong. He did a quick read and was surprised and asked about my symptoms, now he's opened to the idea that I might be in PAWS. He's going to try and find the actual study and read it carefully. Though, I'm glad I had breakthrough with him since I've had various tests to have nothing come back, and still have these symptoms. I hope after reading the actual study, he's able to help more people like me. 

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ChessieCat
55 minutes ago, manny03 said:

He did a quick read and was surprised and asked about my symptoms, now he's opened to the idea that I might be in PAWS.

 

That's great news.  Every little bit helps.  Hopefully he'll pass the information on to his peers.

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manny03
20 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

That's great news.  Every little bit helps.  Hopefully he'll pass the information on to his peers.

 

I wasn't going to bring up, though, I thought, one last hail mary pass. I was thinking of not coming back to him, and go elsewhere. At first, he wasn't opened to it once I mentioned it was reported in The Guardian, he quickly went to his desktop and read the article.

 

Then, he asked about my symptoms, I showed him. Dr. Glennmullen's list which has almost all the symptoms I'm having at the moment. 

 

He was conflicted at first, though now having read the article, and seeing my symptoms he coming around with the idea its protracted withdrawals. 

 

He told me he's going to find the study and read it carefully since he wanted to see how many people they surveyed, the other studies used in this latest study, and how long did the symptoms linger.  

 

From this, it seems the only way professionals will pay attention is if you mentioned it came out in 'x' paper or journal, and if the Dr/MD graduated and is staffed at X university. I mention this,  since like the article, he wasn't open to seeing the Withdrawal list until he researched Dr. Glennmuellen, and was impressed that he was a Harvard Graduate and staffed there. Only this made him see the article and lists. 

 

I hope when he reads the study and the evidence that comes along with it, he realizes what's occurring with other people coming in to his office. He works in a medical group which includes psychiatrists, so it will be a great thing if he believes the study and  passes it to them since psychiatrists could inform their other peers and become more cognizant with their patients when helping them come off the medication, and not treat the meds like candy. 

 

 

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eymen23

Well done Manny!

 

You have brought the world one step closer to having psychiatrists that understand withdrawal symptoms and how withdrawal is affecting their patients. It’s never going to be an overnight change, but every so often the doctors open up a little. 

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ChessieCat

You could give him this link:  http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

 

There are submissions of both medical professionals as well as sufferers from around the world.  My submission was accepted.  Two weeks after reducing my 100mg Pristq to 50mg, I couldn't type (typist for 40+ years) and only about 4 hours after updosing I was able to type again.   There are almost 300 public submissions available to read.  They are concise case studies of people who have suffered from withdrawal and adverse reactions from psychiatric drugs.  I've read about 50 of them.

 

PE01651: Prescribed drug dependence and withdrawal

 

Calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to take action to appropriately recognise and effectively support individuals affected and harmed by prescribed

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manny03

Thanks for the link @ChessieCat I'll pass this to him. 

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manny03

Update

 

The Gi symptoms are there though not as bothersome. However,  I caught something, while I'm eating I continue to have the weird/ache like sensations on my abdomen. Though, I closed my eyes, and the sensations went away.  It's either this or after while of eating the symptoms go away.

 

Is this my brain and gut having a miswire due to my withdrawals and with this will this correct itself?

 

Edited by ChessieCat
removed blasphemy

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eymen23

Hi Manny, 

 

If they are still there but not as bothersome, it sounds like they are improving. I have hope you’ll heal! 

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manny03
9 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

Hi Manny, 

 

If they are still there but not as bothersome, it sounds like they are improving. I have hope you’ll heal! 

 

Crossing my fingers. 

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eymen23

How are your other symptoms such as anxiety, mood and sleep doing? 

 

I feel like for circa 6 months off you’re doing well :) 

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manny03
14 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

How are your other symptoms such as anxiety, mood and sleep doing? 

 

I feel like for circa 6 months off you’re doing well :) 

 

Well the depression is still there since I haven't showered for the last three days, and haven't shaved for more than a week now.  I quickly grow a beard, so I'm looking more like old tyme fella. 

 

I still have my weird acne...yea I have withdrawal acne. 

 

At the moment, the anxiety is at bay. I haven't had tremors in two days. Though, while I'm having my G.I. symptoms, I suddenly having a sweet tooth again ( I had this symptom from August to late September)  

 

I'm regaining my hours of sleep. Right now I'm able to sleep five hours straight. Though, I go back to barely sleeping two to three tops. At the moment, the last four days I've been able to sleep five hours straight. Sadly, i can't regain the last three to get my eight hours to truly be refreshed. This sleeping pattern began to occur when I entered SSRI Poop Out and got worse in Withdrawal. 

 

So, I'm in a wave, though its not as intense at the moment. 

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eymen23

Sorry to hear about the depression being that intense. Do you find you’re feeling helpless, sad, empty? Or is it more of the ‘I can’t be bothered’ type? 

 

It may seem like an odd question, but I find that depression and anxiety have different ‘flavours’. Sometimes I have anxiety where I’m very worried about the future and feel helpless, sometimes feeling like I need to quickly get out of a particular place, sometimes adrenaline in the stomach etc. I was wondering if your depression is of a certain ‘flavour’ or a combination? 

 

It’s good you’re getting more hours of sleep. 2-3 is very difficult. Plus it’s when we get the chance to heal. I know what you mean about missing the other 3 hours though, it is always nice to wake up feeling fully rested. Let’s hope you get one of these days soon. 

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manny03
9 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

Sorry to hear about the depression being that intense. Do you find you’re feeling helpless, sad, empty? Or is it more of the ‘I can’t be bothered’ type? 

 

It may seem like an odd question, but I find that depression and anxiety have different ‘flavours’. Sometimes I have anxiety where I’m very worried about the future and feel helpless, sometimes feeling like I need to quickly get out of a particular place, sometimes adrenaline in the stomach etc. I was wondering if your depression is of a certain ‘flavour’ or a combination? 

 

It’s good you’re getting more hours of sleep. 2-3 is very difficult. Plus it’s when we get the chance to heal. I know what you mean about missing the other 3 hours though, it is always nice to wake up feeling fully rested. Let’s hope you get one of these days soon. 

 

It's not an odd question. Mines is a mixture of sadness and emptiness, that switches to 'I can't be bothered' with hence not showering or shaving at all. 

 

With my Anxiety, it goes away then suddenly comes back. Like today, I love plane spotting. For a few moments, I was fine, then when I finished the anxiety came back with my G.I symptoms and my mind quickly went to fear of the future, then feeling hopeless when my mind taunts me that 'I have stomach cancer and I'm dying'. Then, other moments, I'm surrounded by people, the tremors occur, and I quickly need to walk out, take a breath, then my mind taunts me with other thoughts. So, its a vicious cycle. 

 

 

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eymen23
5 minutes ago, manny03 said:

 

It's not an odd question. Mines is a mixture of sadness and emptiness, that switches to 'I can't be bothered' with hence not showering or shaving at all.

 

That is a tough combination indeed. I find that if I’m only experiencing one ‘flavour’ of anxiety or depression it’s much more manageable, but when they keep switching and combining it gets much harder to control. 

 

A basic mindfulness technique which I like to use in these times, is to recognise the emotion and gently think ‘sadness’, ‘panic’, ‘emptiness’. Have you tried anything like that before? Although it sounds very basic, the act of being aware of the emotion and gently labelling it, helps you to distance yourself from the emotion a little. It takes a little practice but is usually easy to pick up, and you can do it at any time and in any place. 

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manny03
1 minute ago, eymen23 said:

 

That is a tough combination indeed. I find that if I’m only experiencing one ‘flavour’ of anxiety or depression it’s much more manageable, but when they keep switching and combining it gets much harder to control. 

 

A basic mindfulness technique which I like to use in these times, is to recognise the emotion and gently think ‘sadness’, ‘panic’, ‘emptiness’. Have you tried anything like that before? Although it sounds very basic, the act of being aware of the emotion and gently labelling it, helps you to distance yourself from the emotion a little. It takes a little practice but is usually easy to pick up, and you can do it at any time and in any place. 

 

Sadly, I haven't found the right psychologist to help me steer my thoughts. That's why my withdrawals have been hellish since in a moment everything is calm, then suddenly it hits me pretty hard. In my case, they just threw meds at me instead of helping steer my thoughts and emotions.  I'll try to do this. 

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eymen23

Have you tried the app headspace? Or perhaps some guided meditations on YouTube or to download onto your mobile phone/computer? 

 

Although a good psychologist can be helpful for many people, I have personally found that when the negative emotions are generated on a more ‘chemical’ level, mindfulness is more beneficial. 

 

Just trying to think of helpful resources you can start accessing right away :) 

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manny03
Just now, eymen23 said:

Have you tried the app headspace? Or perhaps some guided meditations on YouTube or to download onto your mobile phone/computer? 

 

Although a good psychologist can be helpful for many people, I have personally found that when the negative emotions are generated on a more ‘chemical’ level, mindfulness is more beneficial. 

 

Just trying to think of helpful resources you can start accessing right away :) 

 

I haven't. Though, I'll try to seek these methods out to help me through this. 

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manny03

Update

 

Symptoms are still there. 

 

Though, I noticed a certain pattern came back that had stopped in late October. From August I had a pattern of constant headaches that would stop, then shift to IBS like symptoms or vertigo, akathesia, or sharp pain on my neck muscles etc, then switch back to my headaches. 

 

This pattern returned today. I was having my G.I. symptoms in the morning then it stopped while I was eating lunch. I had an hour window,  then had tremor episode on my head, that produced a dull headache and right eye pain. I had two hours of headaches and eye pain that faded away, and my G.I symptoms came back. 

 

Seems that something is occurring. 

 

 

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manny03

Update

 

Besides my usual symptoms that are waning at the moment. Another symptom made its lovely return - lightheaded/vertigo/off gait and pins and needles sensation on my upper shoulder. 

 

 

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eymen23

Sorry to hear your symptoms are continuing to bounce around. Trying to be positive, at least it shows these symptoms are withdrawal related and that your nervous system is slowly fixing things.

 

Hang in there! Things will improve. 

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manny03
20 hours ago, eymen23 said:

Sorry to hear your symptoms are continuing to bounce around. Trying to be positive, at least it shows these symptoms are withdrawal related and that your nervous system is slowly fixing things.

 

Hang in there! Things will improve. 

 

Crossing my fingers its just another readjustment. 

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manny03

Update

 

Over the last days I've been drinking twice a day Honey Chamomile teas and ginger water to help calm my nerves. It seems its helped with some of my Withdrawal GI symptoms, tremors and helped me get a more restful's night sleep. Though, the acne like spots are still cropping up, and the vertigo/ loose gait still occur. :( 

 

Though, I did notice my CNS is still sensitive since an old friend of mines messaged me over the weekend, I got excited, and then scared think oh God, he wants to help him shoot a film project. My CNS got triggered a bad GI episode were I was constantly having cramps or constantly pooping to the extent I didn't sleep for most of the night. Then, when I finally had the courage to message him back, the harsh symptoms faded away to the usual ones that I've mentioned before though with less intensity. So, I am seeing improvement, though I need to be careful of nothing triggering me since it will put my CNS in a tail spin. 

 

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ChessieCat

Hi manny,

 

Please reduce the amount of information in your drug signature.  We need to be able to see your drug history at a glance without having to read through to get the information.  We only need the drug, dates and doses.  No symptoms, diagnoses or additional descriptions.  Thank you.

 

I suggest that you copy and paste your current drug signature into a post in your Introduction topic.  Then we can look back on that information if we need it.

 

If you don't know the exact date use early, mid late.  Only add the year for the first mention of it.  This is all that is needed:

 

Drug Name:  date, dose; date, dose; date, dose; etc.

Drug Name:  date, dose; date, dose; date, dose; etc.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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manny03
26 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Hi manny,

 

Please reduce the amount of information in your drug signature.  We need to be able to see your drug history at a glance without having to read through to get the information.  We only need the drug, dates and doses.  No symptoms, diagnoses or additional descriptions.  Thank you.

 

I suggest that you copy and paste your current drug signature into a post in your Introduction topic.  Then we can look back on that information if we need it.

 

If you don't know the exact date use early, mid late.  Only add the year for the first mention of it.  This is all that is needed:

 

Drug Name:  date, dose; date, dose; date, dose; etc.

Drug Name:  date, dose; date, dose; date, dose; etc.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Done. 

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manny03

Just came back from my psychologist and finally for the first time he stopped contradicting me by saying that my symptoms were just anxiety.

 

He mentioned that I should use the app 'headspace' to help me clear my mind while through this process to calm my mind, so it won't run a million miles which leads to the symptoms I'm having at the moment or what occurred a few days ago.  

 

 

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ChessieCat
48 minutes ago, manny03 said:

Done. 

 

Thank you.  Much easier to read. 

 

June 16-26

 

Please add the year to this for easier reading.

 

June 27: Reinstated.

 

Please add the reinstatement dose.  If there were any dose changes, please include those as well.  Thanks.

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manny03
7 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Thank you.  Much easier to read. 

 

June 16-26

 

Please add the year to this for easier reading.

 

June 27: Reinstated.

 

Please add the reinstatement dose.  If there were any dose changes, please include those as well.  Thanks.

Fixed. 

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manny03

Update

 

My Gi symptoms are still there though from how it was in December to today, its being a great improvement.  It seems I'm almost out of the woods. 

 

GI. Symptoms

Weird sensations while I eat/digest food on my abdomen

off burning like sensations on places were I know there's no esophagus or stomach

constipation. 

 

Though, the vertigo, lightheaded or heavy legs sensation is still there. Not bad as before. 

 

Sadly, I'm still breaking out with weird pimples, red spots on my face. 

 

Depression at the moment has lifted. 

 

Its been two days without tremors which has been a plus. 

 

Had a slight return of blurred vision, though not crazy out of focus that happened in late August to late October 2018. 

 

Had a slight chills episode, though not bad as before.

 

Besides that, I'm somewhat ok. 

 

 

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manny03

Update

 

Besides the mentioned symptoms. Hives and or welts have made a come back. Though only one at a time. It happened yesterday and now today. Put some benadryl and they go away. 

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manny03

For anyone new wanting know my journey from SSRI Tolerance (SSRI Poop Out) and C/T withdrawal from Trintellix, and not wanting to go through the last six pages here's a chronology of this 'forced' journey I'm at the moment.  

 

June 2017 - Was working out constantly hard, running several miles at a time which I think began to interact with my medication, and in the same time, was stressed out due to personal reasons my medication slowly began to fail. 

                       Symptoms: Anger, Heartburn, weird sharp like electric pains on the right side of my abdomen. - Then the symptoms went away. 

 

September 2017 - I traveled to Central America which I think made me anxious in my unconscious to the extreme it felt like my medication had stopped working. Though, as soon I returned to the US all the symptoms went away. 

                     Symptoms: Stomach (IBS) cramps, anxiety, depression, having a hard time to express my emotions, flu like symptoms (chills and weird body temperature changes). 

 

January 2018 - I shot a commercial for a start up company since I'm an aspiring filmmaker in the Hollywood area. First time in years I thought I was managing pretty well though noticed towards the end something was off. 

                    Symptoms: Social awkwardness, hesitancy, trembling on both of my hands. 

 

* At this time, I realized something was not right and talked to my psychologist about it and he felt that I needed an up dose of my medication though my psychiatrist didn't think it merit anything besides to continue writing in my 'journal'. 

 

March 2018 - I was stressing about U.S. Politics

                    Symptoms: Heart burn, weird sharp like electric pains on the right of my abdomen (occurred just one day), chills (weekly occurrence). 

 

April - May 2018 - This is the moment were my medication finally gave up the 'ghost'. I was walking down the street, looking at the sky, trying to catch a plane from my neighborhood airport since it began service to Asia when I suddenly felt a sharp pain on my right forearm and saw that a bee stung me. I began to stress out that something might happen to me since my pa was allergic to bees, though nothing occurred. Though as the weeks passed I noticed something was seriously wrong. 

                  Symptoms 

                  Behavioral: Anxiety, Anger, rage towards my parents. (I was throwing things at my father, screaming at him in front of our neighbors, blaming mom from problems that weren't her fault in public, taunting her, having urges to hit her), suddenly become socially withdrawn, not finding ways to speak to strangers. 

                  Physical:  Two episodes of electrical pains on the right side of my abdomen, bloating, burning sensation in the pit of my stomach, burping, intense sharp headaches, tremors on both of my hands, body weakness, chills, body aches, weird body temperature fluctuations. 

 

June 2018 - Continuation from April and May though the symptoms got augmented to the extreme I had a shingles breakout. ER Drs said this was caused due to excessive stress since I don't have a pre-existing condition that would trigger such symptoms plus my young age (33). Not knowing what was happening and being RX with antivirals I went C/T. Reinstated the medication after taking the antivirals for seven days. 

                 Symptoms: body weakness and nausea. 

 

July - August 2018 - At this month I realized I was going through acute withdrawals since Shingles outbreaks causes similar symptoms though that had already went away, and the medication was not helping at all. My psychiatrist didn't think this was withdrawals but effects of the antivirals. That's when I realized I was alone, and had no choice to C/T. 

                Symptoms: Body weakness, nausea, crying spells, sweet tooth, hyper sex drive, rashes, red spots on my skin, welts, tremors on both of my hands, brain zaps, electricity going through my body, chills, body aches, weird temperature fluctuation, insomnia, sudden hunger to get two three helpings of food. 

 

September - Mid November 2018 After late August it has been a downhill plunge into the depths of hell. 

                Symptoms: (Look at July 2018 and add) intense headaches, blurred vision, eye floaters, brain fog, vertigo, depression, having trouble keeping my balance, three episodes of Heartburn, weird sharp like electrical pains on the right side of my abdomen, stomach bloating, burping. 

 

November 2018 to mid January 2019:  Some of the symptoms calmed down while other got worse. 

               Symptoms: Anxiety, constant stomach cramps, electrical on the right side of my abdomen, bloating, burning sensation in the pit of my stomach, burping, nausea, insomnia. 

 

Mid January to Present: These are the lingering symptoms left which from what I've read here and other websites is going to take a while to go. 

             Symptoms: Stomach cramps that shift from left to right, weird sensations when I digest or drink its as if my stomach muscle don't know what to do when my swallowed food reaches my abdominal area - though after a while it stops and works normally, knot in my throat, sweet tooth, feel like I could eat an entire cow, weird acne                   breakouts, welts on my body, tremors on both of my hands or head and shoulders, and depression and anxiety like feeling though don't know how to describe it. Though, I don't shower for days or change clothes.  

 

It's being a rough journey. Taking Vitamin C pills have helped alleviate the weird chill sensation. Use Benadryl to calm my rash/welts. Also, drinking chamomile teas twice a day have helped calm my stomach symptoms to how it was in November/December. Though, I have noticed as the months have passed by, I've become more sensitive with what I'm able to eat. I've done various tests - Breath tests for H. Plyori (Clean results) Blood and Urine Work (clean results), Ultrasounds (Clean results). 

 

I have noticed great improvement from how I was in July though, like @Leo1983 has mentioned I've resigned myself to this, and let withdrawals do its thing. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

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Leo1983

Your guna get there soon mate. 

 

Keep it up.

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