Rezten: Effexor withdrawal

[ChessieCat]

Hi Rezten,

 

Your Introduction topic (this one) is where you post questions about your own situation and journal your progress (eg like the post where you said you are having a bad day which I have moved here - please don't make new topics for these type of posts.  Posting them in your Intro topic is a record of your progress and is best kept in one place).

 

There are many existing topics on SA.  SA likes to keep similar discussion topics in one place so members can read other members' experiences more easily.  Before creating a new topic please use either the site search function or use google (or your favourite search engine) and add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term, eg survivingantidepressants.org cbd (sometimes you might have to try a few different search words)

 

SA's discussion topic for CBD is here:  cannabis-marijuana-thc-and-cbd-or-hemp-oil

 

Have you tried Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker .  If have found that it takes the edge off my anxiety.

 

[Rezten]

Thanks for the tips.  The Magnesium I have is 400 mg in 3 capsules.  That's too much I think so I take one

[ChessieCat]

It's work best taking it throughout the day, not just once a day.  Some members dissolve magnesium in water and sip it throughout the day.

[Rezten]

Is this waves and windows?  This past Saturday I was able to go to breakfast with my husband.  I haven't done that for months.  It was uncomfortable but not horrible.  After that I was very nauseated and tightness in chest, anxiety and in bed until Sunday around 4 the symptoms eased up.  They are still there but not as uncomfortable.  The symptoms never leave completely.  Yesterday I went to the grocery store, took a shower, and made supper.  Things that are very difficult for me to do normally.  They were still uncomfortable but not as intense.  Would this be considered a Window?  Looking for hope.

 

Thanks

[WantoffVen]

Retzen I am fairly new to this group and not nearly as knowledgable as many but I believe if you were able to do activities you had not been able to do that has to be good news. While I am tapering and am not have withdrawals anywhere near as severe as you, I have days that are better than others. One day when I was feeling very weepy my husband said to me "remember yesterday was a good day." So now if I'm feeling weepy I just let myself cry. If I don't feel like doing something I either don't or can make myself. In other words, I am not analyzing everything as much. Yes there is hope for you and yes you can recover. But no one can tell you how long it will take so one day at a time. I am here if you just need to talk.

[Rezten]

,Thank you so much.  I am very scared this will be the rest of my life.  Even though I wasn't my normal self it was nice to just be able to do a few things and not feel as sick.

 

Thank you for your encouragement.  

[Altostrata]

On 10/11/2018 at 6:31 AM, Rezten said:

My symptoms yesterday:

 

No Prozac, dr said to stop as it was too stimulating. Had only taken it for the  days.

Woke up feeling groggy, anxious at 

8:00 a.m. took 1.5 mg Valium.

Noon took 1 mg Valium

4:00 p.m. 1 mg Ativan

Took 50 mg. Trazadone and 5 mg melatonin for sleep.  

 

Was very anxious all day. Steady state of anxiety as I am everyday. Rarely a window of relief.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

Since you stopped Prozac 5 days ago, have your symptoms improved, gotten worse, or stayed the same?

 

Please do not throw out whatever Prozac you have left over.

 

3 hours ago, Rezten said:

Is this waves and windows?  This past Saturday I was able to go to breakfast with my husband.  I haven't done that for months.  It was uncomfortable but not horrible.  After that I was very nauseated and tightness in chest, anxiety and in bed until Sunday around 4 the symptoms eased up.  They are still there but not as uncomfortable.  The symptoms never leave completely.  Yesterday I went to the grocery store, took a shower, and made supper.  Things that are very difficult for me to do normally.  They were still uncomfortable but not as intense.  Would this be considered a Window?  Looking for hope.

 

Thanks

 

If you don't interfere with the healing by taking excessive amounts of other drugs, we would expect very gradual lessening of symptoms in post-acute withdrawal syndrome.

 

How did you arrive at a dosage of 5mg melatonin?

 

Did the afternoon nausea, tightness in chest, etc. start after you started trazodone? When did you reduce trazodone to 50mg?

 

Please do not add drugs, change dosages, or change your drug schedule for the time being. We need to see more of your daily drug and symptom pattern.

 

 

[Rezten]

My symptoms have been a little better since stopping Prozac.

 

I take 5 mg Melatonin because that's the amount that helps me get to sleep.  I take Trazadone at night to sleep.  I always feel groggy and tired when I get up so I tried less Trazadone.  I will keep it at the 100 I was taking.  

 

I wont make anymore changes.  

 

Today I woke up feeling very tired and groggy as everyday.  Took 1.5 Valium in a.m. went back to sleep.  Woke up with my  normal anxiety, in bed most of morning.  Took 1 mg valium at noon, went for a 10 min walk.  Came back a little dizzy, back in bed anxiety is always there.  Noticed on my walk everything was surreal.  I get up from bed for a little bit, but usually come back after a few minutes.

[Altostrata]

Did you ever try less than 5mg melatonin?

 

How long have you been taking 50mg trazodone? If it's as effective as 100mg, please stay with 50mg.

 

Did your symptom pattern change after you reduced trazodone to 50mg? How did it change?

 

Do you take Ativan or Valium every day? If so, how long have you been taking one or the other every day?

 

This is extremely important for you: Keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

We absolutely must know when you take Ativan or Valium, to see if they could be causing your problems with sleep or anxiety.

[Rezten]

I have tried less Melatonin but doesnt seem to help as much, although lately some nights nothing helps.  

 

The 50 is same as 100 so I will stick with 50. Symptoms did not change after reduction. 

 

I took 10 mg Valium and 1 mg Ativan everyday and had been for 4 months, but started tapering Valium end of August by .5 mg a week, but am now on a hold for two weeks.  As I said, I take 1.5 mg Valium 8 a.m., 1 mg Valium noon, 1 mg Ativan at 4. So I took 10 mg Valium for about 2 months then started tapering. I was having these same symptoms but worse before I started tapering.  

 

I know all these drugs are not good for my healing, but i cant change what i started.  I would live to be taking nothing and start healing, but i can only slowly taper off what i have and hope I am still healing even a little.  I am very scared and confused.

 

[Altostrata]

Do you mean nothing helps you sleep? When did you stop sleeping? Was it when you reduced trazodone or was it when you reduced one of the benzos?

 

Please do not change your Ativan and Valium dosing for now. Please include all drugs in your daily symptom notes.

[Rezten]

Trazadone/melatonin helps me sleep but when I started the Prozac 2 weeks ago almost instant insomnia.  I stopped taking it after 5 days because of other side effects too, and I'm sleeping better but still cant fall asleep for hours.  I know this can be part of AD withdrawal too as my brain is changing.  My Dr. Wants me to go down another 1/2 mg of Valium this Sunday.  That will be two weeks since last dose change.  Tonight I will take 50 mg Trazadone and 5 mg Melatonin for sleep.  Tomorrow evening I will post how my day was and meds I took.

 

I didnt notice any sleep changes from benzo or trazadone.  It was Prozac which I have not taken in a week and feel better for stopping it

[Rezten]

When I went on Trazadone 7 months ago i was told it was benign, and not something you need to taper off of by 2 doctors.  Now I'm reading quite differently.  I am so nervous.  I have 3 drugs I need to come off of and not sure which first, how to do this etc.  I'm very concerned and worried.  Already in SSRI withdrawals.

[Rezten]

Altostrata,

After reviewing again when I went to 50 mg Traz and then felt sick two days later (this past Saturday. I think maybe it was from the trazadone reduction.   It never occurred to me as i thought this was something i could go up and down with.  Unfortunately I went a few days without writing out what dose of meds and when, although Trazadone was the only change.  Since I had been up and down with the dose, I decided on 75 Mg traz last night.  If this doesnt cause adverse effects I will hold for a month or so.  I know I shouldnt keep changing dose, i was told differently by dr. But i see i was wrong.  Any suggestions are welcome.

[Shep]

Retzen, your signature states, "Recently did six Ketamine infusions".

 

Please add the dates of your infusions to your signature. A direct link to your signature is here:

 

Account - Settings - Create or Edit Your Signature

[Rezten]

I am wondering if I should hold on the benzo taper and taper off Trazadone now?

[Rezten]

Update for today. 

Took 75 mg Trazadone and 5 mg Melatonin for sleep last night.

1.5 mg Valium 8 a.m.

1 mg Valium Noon

Will take 1 mg Ativan at 4.

 

This morning I woke up early couldn't fall back to sleep mainly because I am worried how to handle Trazadone.  Physically I felt Jittery most of the day, very little appetite, increased tightness in chest as day went on.  Slight headache and brain fog.  

 

Not sure what to do about Trazadone.  Should I go back and stabilize at 100 mg and start a smaller taper?  Any mods who could advise I would appreciate it so I know what to take tonight.

 

Saw Psychiatrist today.  He's not sure he believes i am still in  withdrawal from Effexor as he has never seen it last this long in some one and usually no one needs to taper off Trazadone.  That being said he does agree I am very sensitive to meds and is willing to prescribe what I need to taper as slowly as I want. He thinks I should try to stay at 75 mg, but said it's up to me.  

 

Thank you

[Rezten]

I just wanted to add after I got home from Dr. I started feeling better.  Maybe I was feeling worse in morning because I was nervous about talking to Dr.  I feel more relaxed. 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, Rezten said:

After reviewing again when I went to 50 mg Traz and then felt sick two days later (this past Saturday. I think maybe it was from the trazadone reduction.   It never occurred to me as i thought this was something i could go up and down with.  Unfortunately I went a few days without writing out what dose of meds and when, although Trazadone was the only change.  Since I had been up and down with the dose, I decided on 75 Mg traz last night. If this doesnt cause adverse effects I will hold for a month or so.  I know I shouldnt keep changing dose, i was told differently by dr. But i see i was wrong.  Any suggestions are welcome.

 

14 hours ago, Rezten said:

Not sure what to do about Trazadone.  Should I go back and stabilize at 100 mg and start a smaller taper?  Any mods who could advise I would appreciate it so I know what to take tonight.

 

You are correct - it's not good to keep changing doses. Please find a trazodone dose and stick to it.  It looks like you only reduced the Trazadone within the past few days, so you may want to go back up to 75 mg, if not the full 100 mg. 

 

The constant up and down is going to make it difficult to give taper advice. If you are able to sleep on 75 mg, you may want to leave it there. If not, you may want to go back up to 100 mg unless you are getting adverse effects and feeling over-sedated. Since you were on 100 mg since March, you likely are dependent on it. 

 

18 hours ago, Rezten said:

I am wondering if I should hold on the benzo taper and taper off Trazadone now?

 

Let's get the Trazadone dose set and give yourself a few weeks without making any changes.

 

You very recently went through Ketamine infusions, so ideally, you'll want to let your nervous system settle. 

 

Here are some helpful links:

 

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

 

While you're holding is a great time to read over information on the site. Please also have a read of the numerous non-drug coping techniques that can help:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Whether you'll want to taper the Trazodone or one of the benzos first will depend on which drug is helping with sleep. Since preserving sleep is key, whichever drug helps the most with sleep should be the drug you taper last. 

 

But again, with so many treatments and so many drug changes over the past few months, it will be best to go into a long hold and give your mind and body time to catch up to the changes. 

 

Please note the information provided in  Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)  about trazodone's active metabolite, mCPP.  

 

On 7/19/2012 at 10:40 PM, Altostrata said:

razodone (trazodone hydrochloride) is a nasty drug often added to antidepressants and other "activating" drugs to aid sleep.

It's nasty because it has an evil active metabolite, meta-Chlorophenylpiperazine (mCPP), and a huge number of interactions with other drugs that can make you feel very sick.

First, carefully read the below to see if you have any adverse effects from trazodone.

Trazodone's evil byproduct, mCPP
Trazodone's active metabolite, mCPP, does the opposite of aiding sleep -- it's very, very activating, often in an unpleasant way.

 

Please keep careful notes about your symptoms, either posting online or keeping notes on paper. You'll want to make sure you're not conflating this potential adverse reaction with the side effects / withdrawal symptoms from the benzo and / or the recent Trazodone reductions. This is a good format for keeping symptom notes:

 

Keep notes on paper about your drug dosages and daily symptom pattern

 

13 hours ago, Rezten said:

I just wanted to add after I got home from Dr. I started feeling better.  Maybe I was feeling worse in morning because I was nervous about talking to Dr.  I feel more relaxed. 

 

 

This is great to hear. I hope this trend continues. 

 

[Rezten]

Thank you for responding.   I am not going to make anymore changes for a while although Trazadone helps with sleep I feel I want to taper off because of the mCPP metabolite.  That's scares me.  I have time to think about it.  Hopefully I can hold at 75 mg and not go back up to 100.

[Rezten]

 

 

Also, even though I am still on medication can my CNS still start healing from the Effexor withdrawal?

[Altostrata]

On 10/16/2018 at 3:41 PM, Rezten said:

My Dr. Wants me to go down another 1/2 mg of Valium this Sunday. 

 

If you're not sleeping, this makes no sense at all.

 

21 hours ago, Rezten said:

Update for today. 

Took 75 mg Trazadone and 5 mg Melatonin for sleep last night.

1.5 mg Valium 8 a.m.

1 mg Valium Noon

Will take 1 mg Ativan at 4. 

 

This morning I woke up early couldn't fall back to sleep mainly because I am worried how to handle Trazadone.  Physically I felt Jittery most of the day, very little appetite, increased tightness in chest as day went on.  Slight headache and brain fog.  

 

Not sure what to do about Trazadone.  Should I go back and stabilize at 100 mg and start a smaller taper?  Any mods who could advise I would appreciate it so I know what to take tonight.

 

Saw Psychiatrist today.  He's not sure he believes i am still in  withdrawal from Effexor as he has never seen it last this long in some one and usually no one needs to taper off Trazadone.  That being said he does agree I am very sensitive to meds and is willing to prescribe what I need to taper as slowly as I want. He thinks I should try to stay at 75 mg, but said it's up to me.  

 

Thank you

 

Thank you for the notes. Please put the time of day at the left and notations on the right. Also, please add your symptoms into the chronology. What time of day did you start to feel jittery? Is it worse at some times? When did you notice the tightness in your chest?

 

We need to see if you have any withdrawal effects from reducing trazodone from 100mg to 75mg on October 17.

 

While you might have adverse effects from trazodone and mCPP, it's also possible your symptoms are from the benzos, not from trazodone. We need to see more complete symptom notes to figure this out.

 

Very few psychiatrists know anything about tapering or withdrawal syndrome. The best you can expect is that they cooperate with your plan.

[Rezten]

Thank you for your reply. I will put in how my day was later on once I have gotten through most of the day.  I had just assumed everything I am feeling is just part of effexor withdrawal Because I have had most of these symptoms in varying degrees since I went off.  The last 3 months being the most consistent with an anxious stomache and tightness in chest.  Gets worse if I leave the house.  But as I said I will put in symptom notes later.  I am not making anymore med changes. Everything is on hold.

[ChessieCat]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please put the time of day at the left and notations on the right. Also, please add your symptoms into the chronology.

 

This is an example:

 

6 a.m. Woke and vomited
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Had diarrhea
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Stomachache
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Headache got worse
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke with headache

[Rezten]

Thank you.

[Rezten]

Update for today:

Took 75 mg Trazadone and 5 mg melatonin for sleep the night before at 9:30 p.m.

 4:30 a.m. woke up  tossed and turned until about 7 fell back asleep until 8. 

8:00 a.m. woke up kinda with little jolts alerts.  Felt groggy tired, anxious stomache, slight tightness in chest

8:00 a.m. took 1.5 mg Valium

10:00 a.m. cleaned out camper fridg. Maybe took 10 min.  Still nervous stomache and tight chest.

11:00 went to store - stomache more nervous tightness in chest increased. (Always does if I leave house)

11:30 ate lunch

12:00 noon 1 mg Valium

1:30 tried Fish oil pill

2:30 had upset stomache, (I think from fish oil) slight increase in anxiety until about 4:00.  Then I started feeling better, but still slight anxious stomache tightness in chest

4:00 p.m. took 1 mg Ativan

4:30 made simple supper

5:30 ate supper still slight anxiety symptoms 

6:00 watched TV with hubby

7:00 back in bed to read still slight anxiety feelings (they never go away completely)

8:00 will watch TV with hubby

9:30 will take 75 mg Trazadone and 5 mg Melatonin to sleep.

 

Just a note:  most days I spend laying in bed because anxiety seems less when I am laying down.  I do a lot of reading and praying.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Please indicate in your daily notes if the anxiety is higher at some times rather than others.

[Rezten]

I will. I did note it at the 2:30 time.  Other than that and going to the store it was the same throughout the day.  

 

Thank you for your help

[Rezten]

Today's update. 

Last night around 7:30 anxiety got higher until I fell asleep around 10 or so.

 

4:30 a.m. woke up

6:30 a.m. 

8:10 a.m. woke up feeling more anxious than morning before. Tired, groggy. Tight chest, nervous stomache.

8:10 took 1.5 mg Valium

9:00 a.m. my son came over my anxiety increased. 

10:30 son left.  Anxiety still on the high side and I feel tired tried to read trouble focusing on what I'm reading. Mild jitteriness.

11:10 are lunch. Still tired and 

12:00 took 1 mg Valium.  Started listening to a meditation and fell asleep.

1:00 woke up, less anxious. Chest not as tight, no jitters. Stomache not as nervous.  Focus came back able to read.

4:00 1 mg Ativan.  still feeling the same, less anxiety

7:30 will eat supper, anxiety up a little.  It seems after I post my day I get a little more nervous.

8:00 watch TV with hubby. Tired still a little more anxiety.

9:30 take 75 mg Trazadone and 5 mg melatonin. 

 

[Rezten]

Today's update.

4:00 a.m. woke up

6:00 a.m. feel asleep

7:15 woke up feeling groggy and anxious

8:00 a.m. 1.5 mg Valium

8:30 getting ready to go to prayer meeting.  Anxiety increasing at the idea of leaving house

9:30 left for prayer meeting

11:30 arrived home, felt much less anxiety almost nothing except feeling a little jittery 

11:45 ate lunch

12:00 1 mg Valium

1:00 fell asleep

1:30 woke up still livery low anxiety but a little jittery

4:00 not feeling too jittery or anxious

4:00 1mg Ativan

6:00 helped hubby winterize camper for about 15 min

7 ate dinner

7:30 watching TV until about 9:30

9:30 75 mg Trazadone and 5 mg melatonin 

 

 

[Rezten]

Italy I have been waking up around 4 but eventually fall back to sleep.  When I get up then i am very tired and groggy feeling like i havent slept.  I am not sure if it's the 5 mg melatonin, trazadone or combination or something else.  I am tapering Trazadone but am going slowly, so is it ok to try reducing my Melatonin to see if that helps?  Would there be a problem to cut pill in half and try 2.5 mg?

[Rezten]

Today's update.

4:00 a.m. woke up. 

6:00 a.m. fell back asleep.

7:15 woke up very tired/groggy (I miss cofee) low anxiety

8:00 a.m. 1.5 mg Valium

8:30 fell asleep

9:00 woke up tired.

9:30 showered anxiety increases because I'm going to the store

10:15 went to store anxiety higher tightness in chest and stomache

11:00 back from store, laying down anxiety symptoms going down a little

11:30 ate lunch

12:00 1 mg Valium

12:00 - 2:00 layed in bed reading.  Anxiety staring to increase again around 2

2:00 - 4:00 more reading and prayer anxiety still high

4:00 1 mg Ativan

5:00 anxiety a little less, made supper but feeling kinda hopeless

6:00 ate supper

6:45 in bed to read and update for today. Plan on reading and watching some tv until about 9:30.  Still have tightness in chest.  

9:30 will take 75 mg Trazadone and 2.5 mg melatonin.

 

I want to try less melatonin to se if I can still sleep and not feel as groggy in the morning.  When I wake up at 4 a.m. I usually felt fine, almost normal. It's when I fallback to sleep and wake up I'm very groggy and tired.  Please advise if I should not go down on melatonin.  

 

Thanks

 

 

[Shep]

3 minutes ago, Rezten said:

I want to try less melatonin to se if I can still sleep and not feel as groggy in the morning.  When I wake up at 4 a.m. I usually felt fine, almost normal. It's when I fallback to sleep and wake up I'm very groggy and tired.  Please advise if I should not go down on melatonin.  

 

With melatonin, it's a "less is more" kind of supplement. So reducing from 5 mg sounds like a good plan. Let us now how you do on the reduced amount. 

 

Please see:

 

Melatonin for sleep

 

On 4/6/2011 at 9:26 PM, Altostrata said:

Large doses of melatonin do NOT aid sleep -- they might cause your oversensitive brain to wake up, instead. I found when I took more than 2mg of melatonin, I was weepy in the morning. If you get this or a paradoxical reaction (waking) or are dopey in the morning, it's a sign you're taking too much.

 

 

On 4/6/2011 at 9:26 PM, Altostrata said:

Here's how to re-establish your sleep cycle with melatonin:

- Start with .25mg-.50mg melatonin for 3-4 days.

- Take at the same time, nightfall (but, given that it's summer, not later than 8 p.m.), every night.

- If needed, gradually increase by .25mg for 3-4 days at a time.

- Use the lowest effective dose.

- Try to turn lights off or keep lights low after sundown. Your bedroom should be quiet and dark. Darkness triggers natural melatonin production. Artificial lighting, including staring into the computer, can give the wrong signal to your pineal gland. STAY OFF THE COMPUTER AT NIGHT.

- Keep to a very regular schedule -- this is what your circadian rhythm needs.

- Do NOT take melatonin regularly at any time but nightfall or you might scramble your sleep-wake cycle.

[Rezten]

Should I go down as low as .25?  I have 5 mg tablets I was going to break them in half and do 2.5.

[Rezten]

One more thing, I have been posting my daily activity since I reduced Trazadone from 100 to 75.  I dont seem much different then before i made the cut and i know it was a big cut.  I think i will hold her for 4 weeks and then maybe go down 10%.  Any suggestions about this after reading my daily updates?

[Shep]

6 minutes ago, Rezten said:

Should I go down as low as .25?  I have 5 mg tablets I was going to break them in half and do 2.5.

 

Great point, Retzen. Yes, you may want to go down to 2.5 first and see how you do. Going from 5 mg to .25 mg may be too abrupt. Gradual movements are always best. 

 

1 minute ago, Rezten said:

One more thing, I have been posting my daily activity since I reduced Trazadone from 100 to 75.  I dont seem much different then before i made the cut and i know it was a big cut.  I think i will hold her for 4 weeks and then maybe go down 10%.  Any suggestions about this after reading my daily updates?

 

Looks like you're sleeping about 6 hours a night. Is that correct?

 

If so, yes, I would hold for a few weeks to stabilize and hopefully get where you are sleeping a bit more, if possible. Since you're making making reductions in melatonin, it will be good to hold everything else steady to see if you get results from that change.