Ayahuasca, phenethylamines, tryptamines, etc.

[Tom]

I was reading another forum, where I think many of us used to go, and somebody started a thread about their experience with something called 4-Aco-DET. It completely lifted most of his or her withdrawal symptoms, albeit temporarily, but when the symptoms came back they weren't as intense as before. Another poster talked about their experience with using MDMA to help withdrawal, and a couple others posted about people using Ayahuasca. Someone supposedly used it to cure lifelong depression and another to heal a chronic back and neck problem. Anyway, the thread was locked by the overzealous and bitchy Admin, but it was really interesting.

 

I'm not advocating the use of any of these, and I think obviously there are dangers, and great care and research is necessary, but I think it is a fascinating topic. So I thought I'd throw it out there and maybe it will lead to some interesting discussion and discovery. I think the idea that the only option for people suffering from SSRI (or other meds) withdrawal, discontinuation syndrome, etc. is to wait and wait and wait and keep on freakin' waiting for the brain to heal and things to get better is maybe not necessarily such a good one.

[Altostrata]

You are seeing isolated anecdoctal reports of scattered individual experiments with powerful drugs, usually by young people who are risk-takers and think they're indestructible. This is why medicine emphasizes "evidence" from controlled studies, where one drug is given to some number of people and results accurately recorded and tabulated (in the best case).

 

The problem is we don't know any substance that can reliably fix withdrawal syndrome. Hypersensitization of the nervous system makes any chemical intervention risky. Even for the very gentle treatments we suggest here (fish oil, whey protein isolate, milk peptides, walking), a minority of those who try them get bad reactions.

 

Sometimes individual experiments with powerful psychoactives go wrong and make people a lot worse, so if you want to experiment on yourself, you take your chances.

 

Please let us know how you do!

[Tom]

I have trouble taking vitamins, so I'm not about to experiment, lol. You are right. It just seems like there should be a way to fix some of these problems that people are having, other than just waiting it out.

[Nadia]

I've had many people suggest to me I should participate in a peyote or ayahuasca ceremony to see if it will help my withdrawal (where I live they are considered traditional medicine). I'm too afraid to try, because I think it could be playing Russian roulette, but I do admit sometimes out of desperation I think about it. I think it would be more likely to help someone with regular depression than someone who's nervous system has been through the ringer with big Pharma drug cocktails. But who knows? I'm willing to have an open mind and think it's important to keep the discussion open.

[Altostrata]

In desperation, we sometimes think of dramatic solutions.

 

But really, if your nervous system is wobbling, what do you think the chances are of correcting it by slamming it with a strong drug?

[Nadia]

Exactly. It could end up putting you back to where you started or worse!

[cymbaltasux]

i heard that ayahuasca has no bad effects what so ever only good outcomes , BUT you cant be on any contraindicative medication for up to 8 weeks before trying it , including ssris srni maoi meds , seriously i have tried everything to elliviate my depression , bullimia , panic attacks to the point that i want to go to the amazon jungle asap to try an fix me , like one last ditch effort .Only problem , how am i supposed to get off everything for the 8 weeks , and get on a plane to peru. i wont get out my front door

[primrose]

I wanna go to Peru and do aya in the traditional way, but after I am off meds.

This is cos it may make me feel better but wd may come back if I just stop all meds because of it.

[Jemima]

i heard that ayahuasca has no bad effects what so ever only good outcomes , BUT you cant be on any contraindicative medication for up to 8 weeks before trying it , including ssris srni maoi meds , seriously i have tried everything to elliviate my depression , bullimia , panic attacks to the point that i want to go to the amazon jungle asap to try an fix me , like one last ditch effort .Only problem , how am i supposed to get off everything for the 8 weeks , and get on a plane to peru. i wont get out my front door

 

I see that this is your first post, Cymbaltasux.  How about heading over to the 'Introductions and updates' discussion and telling us about yourself?  Please put your drug history in the signature area of your profile as well. (Here's how:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/)  Thanks.

[Azgirl]

I've ran across many topics like this before.  I've also read that Iboga is being used to help people withdraw from medications.  I have a very open mind about treatments and experiences, but am very wary about taking a strong drug not knowing what the reaction would be.  Being isolated in a clinic or jungle ingesting or smoking a substance may in fact help some people but the isolation scares me. 

 

There is a documentary on Netflix, I believe the name is DMT the Spirit Molecule

 

I have read the book by Rick Strassman, he did very controlled studies (if I remember it was New Mexico) it was very interesting to read the reports of volunteers after their experiences, many of them compared them to near death experiences and there was a common theme of "there's something else out there" .

 

I can completely understand how someone who , even under the influence of a drug, gets a glimpse of something and then returns with a sense of satisfaction knowing we have an afterlife, or death is not to be feared.  That would be a great comfort.  Unfortunately some of the volunteers in his book had a tough time dealing with the psychedelic episodes afterwards.  Imagine trying to explain an experience like that to someone who has never done it, I think it may lead to some isolation. 

 

I'd like to hear about any positive LONG TERM experiences anyone has with this. 

[Narcissus]

I believe someone mentioned this but it's worth restating, Ayahuasca brew in whatever form always contains MAOIs, do NOT take it while on anti-depressants.  

 

Personally, I think doing an ayahuasca ceremony during anti-depressant withdrawal is a bad idea.  Who knows what the effect would be.

[malu]

You are seeing isolated anecdoctal reports of scattered individual experiments with powerful drugs, usually by young people who are risk-takers and think they're indestructible. This is why medicine emphasizes "evidence" from controlled studies, where one drug is given to some number of people and results accurately recorded and tabulated (in the best case).

 

The problem is we don't know any substance that can reliably fix withdrawal syndrome. Hypersensitization of the nervous system makes any chemical intervention risky. Even for the very gentle treatments we suggest here (fish oil, whey protein isolate, milk peptides, walking), a minority of those who try them get bad reactions.

 

Sometimes individual experiments with powerful psychoactives go wrong and make people a lot worse, so if you want to experiment on yourself, you take your chances.

 

Please let us know how you do!

 

Altostrata, this means like, le'ts say I go to the doctor if I'm feeling the symptoms of withdrawal, and he wants me to use some drug that I never used (this happened to me last year), then it's the same thing, isn't it? It will probably be risky and mess with the nervous system.

[WilliamWallace]

first off, ayahuasca can have multiple side effects and be a nightmare to boot. it is mostly likely the most powerful drug on the planet. whoever said no bad effects was lying to you. a quick google will tell you that. google aya and bad trip. second SSRIs plus MAOI equals death. to clarify ayahuasca is DMT and a MAOI. usually a mixture of leaves and twigs but neo hippie types sometimes smartly measure their doses with purified products. its all a bit cultish and new agey tbh. 

 

mdma and SSRI can lead to sertonin syndrome. also very depleting and can be neurotoxic. real MDMA is hard to find these days and will most likely be something even more dangerous passed off as MDMA. 

 

there is some evidence that iboga eases withdrawal but its extremely dangerous but has some unique pharmacology. good for opiates or short term withdrawal if anything not long term psych drug wd. even taking small non trip inducing doses can lead to deadly heart arrhythmia even in previously healthy individuals. after some consideration and experience with this plant, i can say that it is not worth it and isn't a genuine cure of anything and excessively expensive. a provider wont treat you and if they do it would be unethical. getting on your own can be difficult unless you know some people and it is illegal most places. it did make me feel better but my withdrawal symptoms came back with a vengeance after a couple months and i was back to ground zero for three months. its simply not a safe drug and a pseudo cure after a lot of consideration. i would never take it again. 

 

i also think psychedelic drugs can be damaging to a person spiritually and not worth the risk. 

 

tryptamines dont actually correct or fix anything in your brain. you can royally screw yourself up when you are not in withdrawal. when you are in withdrawal it could easily be the worst experience of your life and wont fix you at all. it will increase your senses and awareness so you will put your pain under a microscope.it basically floods your brain with serotonin for a few hours and might leave a non withdrawing person feeling refreshed but goes away after a day or so. 

 

phens are the most dangerous and toxic of psychedelics. the body load (nausea, ataxia, vomiting, diarrhea) can be extreme. typically super long lasting. some phens can last up to 24 or so hours. so if its bad its gonna last a while. brink of insanity type thing. 

 

in short, typically drugs don't cure you or fix anything thats wrong with you. they mask symptoms or carpet bomb microbes away which wont help with withdrawal. it would be great if there was a drug you could take that patches you up and sends you on your way but certainly psychedelics arent it. 

 

these are the type of things you hear about on the 10 oclock news. "withdrawing psych drug patient jumps from third story to death on acid binge" type things and perpetuates stereotypes on multiple fronts. 

 

so its simply a bad idea IMO but i get where you are coming from as i was willing to try just about anything too. def playing with gas and a match here tho. 

[JanCarol]

https://holistic-evolution.com/2014/12/02/ayahuasca/

https://holistic-evolution.com/ayahuascawatch/

 

ISEERS -

Psych help for survivors of Ayahuasca, Iboga, & San Pedro:

http://www.iceers.org/support-service.php

 

Not advised for people who have taken psych drugs ever.

 

As a kitchen herbalist, I can tell you that - going to Peru for "Ayahuasca Tourism" is a risky business, as there are about 30 million OTHER plants they can put in the brew - a popular one being scopolamine, or datura.  That's a guaranteed bad trip for 90 out of 100 people (the other 10 are fine).

 

If there's a psych help group for survivors, well.  Doesn't that sound familiar?

 

Granted, these tales are the worst of the worst.  Kind of like what we get here in SA - the people who do fine, we don't hear from them.  But if there's a 10% chance of this happening?  Are you sure you want to blast your brain open for that?

 

I've been listening to some Carl Jung, talking about Depth Psychology.  Apparently not everyone can benefit - because if the ego is not strong enough, delving into these deep places will ruin them, the coherence of ego will dissolve, and send them deeper into psychotic states.  I would think the same would apply to ayahuasca, only more so. 

[Yesyes123]

Hey friends. 

 

I am not going to do any other drugs than Escitalopram, the only one I'm on and slowly tapering.

 

But I wonder if there is any kind of interactions between SSRI's and DMT. 

 

I know Ayahuasca + SSRI can be lethal or cause serotonin syndrome... but that's because of the MAOI in the Ayahuasca brew (which is made of DMT + an MAOI) 

 

If someone on SSRI smoked low dose DMT, what could actually happen? I'm not sure if DMT alters Serotonin, I don't know much about it.

 

I'm just curious - it seems different from pretty much every other substance...