Sottana: Paxil withdrawal - questions and concerns

[Sottana]

Hello,

 

I have been on Ssris for the past ten years, different doses and different meds. I started on lexapro 20 mg when I was 18 and get great for years. When I hit 22 I started lowering my meds due to side effects and simply being uncomfortable being on meds. I got down to about 10 mgs and stayed there for a while. 2 years ago I did a fast taper and got down to 5 mgs way too fast. I experienced withdrawal really bad without knowing what it was and thought I was relapsing on anxiety/depression. For a year I messed around trying to find the right med and trying to find the right combo. I now realize meds were a problem all along and all I want is to feel normal and be off of them. I also realize I’m going through withdrawal and have to be patient. Ok, time to backtrack. Eventually I decided to go on paxil about a year ago after trying a slew of other Ssris. The reason being that my dad takes it and I thought it would help me out. Bad idea. I quickly got up to 37.5 mg in only about 4 months bc it didn’t seem to be helping. After this, I decided meds weren’t the answer and started dropping my dose, not knowing the correct method or pace. My first drop was to 25 mg controlled release and it was horrific. I decided to wait for a while before making and other drops. About 5 months. Back in may of this year I dropped again to 20 mgs regular release. I’ve been experience protracted withdrawal for almost 4 months now from that drop. Things seem to gradually be improving, but I just hit another bad wave and am looking for advice/support. Also, I’ve been on different doses of Ssris for a long time. Since I was 18 and I’m 28 now. I’m thinking about jsut holding head until I feel good before tapering the correct way. I just don’t know how long I should wait, or when it’s time to start again. Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks!! 

[Gridley]

Hello, Sottana and welcome to SA.  

 

I think it's a good plan to hold until you feel better.  I would hold at 20mg for at least 3 months, but a six month hold to stabilize is not uncommon.  Then, you can start your taper.  

 

At Surviving Antidepressants, it is recommended that a person taper by no more than 10% of their current dose with at least a four week hold in-between decreases.  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.  Some people may have to taper at a more conservative rate as they are sensitive to even the smallest drops.

  

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Brain Remodelling

 

Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

 

 

[Sottana]

 Yeah, I’ve been holding for a little over 3 months now. Still not feeling 100 percent, so going to probably hold for at least five months in total, possibly more. Thanks for your response! The ten percent method is what I’ll try when I feel ready. Also, thanks for info about supplements. Can’t wait for this to get a bit better 

[Gridley]

Sounds good, Sottana.

[Sottana]

Hello everyone, this is my first post other than my initial intro post. Lately, I’ve been having a really hard time. I started tapering back in January, thinking my problems would start to resolve after a few months of my taper. I’ve been on ssris for about ten years, but been on Paxil only about 9 months. I decided that meds weren’t working, hadn’t been working, and were a lost cause. Now I find myself in about my ninth month of my taper and am extremely frustrated and heartbroken by my results. I’m only down to 20 from 37.5 and am finding my state of mind and emotional wel-being really suffering. I’m usually ok for a few days, and then I get a surge of massive anxiety for about 2 days or more. This fear/anxiety can be so paralyzing that it makes me feel like my world is crumbling and there’s nothing I can do to talk myself out of it. I’ve been reading stories and am finding it so demoralizing that people take 5 heads 5 years, not heads haha or more to recover from this/some simply never get 100 percent full-functioning back. 

 

Im looking for advice on how to stay hopeful during the bad waves of anxiety. How to not compare myself to others and how to not convince myself that’s I’m going to be stuck in this state for the rest of my life. I know healing comes, but I hear these stories and it makes me feel totally hopeless, feeling like I wanna give up on certain days and I’m only down to 20 mg! Keep in mind, other days I feel pretty hopeful and like I’m making real progress. All to be totally taken away by a wave of massive crippling anxiety. Luckily, I have a job and am able to work, but some days it gets so bad I think about quitting.

 

Any words of wisdom/support would really be appreciated,

 

Anthony 

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by ChessieCat
edited typo

[ChessieCat]

I've moved your new topic and added it to your Intro topic.  Your Intro topic is the place where you can ask questions about your own situation and where you can journal your progress.  It keeps your history in one place.

 

The fact that you are having better periods is a good sign.  I know it can be frustrating when things worsen again but unfortunately that is just the nature of the tapering/WD beast.  Healing isn't linear.  What you are going through is normal.  Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

I have found that magnesium helps with my anxiety.  There have been several times during the last few years when I have stopped taking it and then restarted it and each time I have noticed that it takes the edge off my anxiety.  It's better to take it throughout the day, not just once a day:  Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

I have found that understanding what is happening helps to keep me patient and more accepting of the times when I am feeling worse.

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

It's important to learn and use non-drug techniques to get through these times.

 

AAF
Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  A concept stolen from Claire Weekes.  It is a process for handling situations that you have no control over.  Acknowledging the situation/symptom, getting to know it on a personal level.  Accepting that the situation/symptom is there, its real and there is nothing you can do about it. Letting the Situation/symptom Float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's sort of like dealing with an unwanted house guest.  At first you get to know them and make them comfortable.  Then you realize they are not making any effort to leave and there is nothing you can do, but ignore them as best as you can until they go away.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Acceptance

 

Acceptance and Mindfulness

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

[Sottana]

Thanks Chessie! 

 

Its going to take me some time to get though all this material, but it seems very helpful. 

 

I guess the the main thing is trying to keep a hopeful attitude and not giving into doomed/spiraled thinking. 

 

When I think about how long I’ve been on ssris and how young I was(started at 18 now 28) I start thinking my brain is really broken and incapable of healing.

 

Im definitely going to taper with the ten percent method from this point forward. Slow and steady. I’m just having a hard time being hopeful about recovery during waves, which leads to further anxiety. It’s why I have such a hard time floating during the waves. 

[ChessieCat]

You're welcome.  Just go through it bit by bit as you are able.  The brain remodelling and healing video are both helpful so check those first.

 

And here is another on that is helpful:

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

I would also like to encourage you.  I'm 60 and have been on an AD for 25 years.  I've managed to reduce from 100mg Pristiq (started tapering 3 years ago) and now down to 7mg and during my taper I have only experienced mild withdrawal symptoms.  I am tapering no more than 10% of my current dose.  At 50mg I held for 3 months and at 20mg I held for 7 weeks.  I did this, not because I was experiencing withdrawal symptoms, because I wanted to give my brain a chance to catch up if it needed to.  It's going to take me another couple of years before I am off but I'd rather do it slowly and keep withdrawal to a minimum.

 

When we first start tapering it is a really big part of our life.  As time goes on it fades into the background.  There have been times during the last 3 years when I have become impatient and got frustrated and wanted to go faster and I think that is normal.  Being part of the SA community helps because other members can support you when this happens.

 

It's also important to realise that if you go through a stressful time, eg if you are sick, outside stresses increase, Christmas/holidays, it is better to hold on a dose during that time.  I've recently had dental issues over a few months and stayed on my dose a bit longer than I had planned.  I had realised that my withdrawal symptoms were increasing.

 

Throw out the calendar and listen to your body.  BTW, some members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, so be prepared for that.  Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

[Sottana]

Thanks Chessie!

 

This website and all that you guys do is such an amazing resource and lifeline to us all! I can’t tell you enough how much I appreciate your effort/all the info you’ve sent me. 

 

As as I said before, it’s going to take me a little while to digest/understand all this info, but for now, I think I have a good foundation. I understand the ten percent method/the importance of a slow taper and have tools to try to stay positive about the whole experience/stay patient. 

 

It it seems like we are in fact building new brains, if it were an easy task, we wouldn’t need a website like this and we wouldn’t need a very methodical approach to tapering. 

 

I did did two big jumps and that’s what lead my to this site. I jumped from 37.5 to 25, then 25 to 20. I experienced massive withdrawal and discovered that I’m tapered wayyyy too fast and needed to wait a long time before leveling out and really starting a taper. Like I said, my first drop was back in January, and my second one was four months ago. I plan on waiting at least two more months before starting the correct taper. I just hope those two big drops weren’t too much for my system. Anyway, at leas to have the right info now and didn’t CT. It could always be worse, and I have to be grateful for this site and for you. 

 

Thanks so much Chessie! 

 

Anthony 

[ChessieCat]

You are very welcome.  I was relieved like you are when I first came to SA and discovered that "I'm not the only one" - the title of my Intro topic 😊

 

Yes it is good that you didn't cold turkey.  And I'm really pleased that you understand the importance of a slow taper.  I would encourage you, when you are able, to go through those links.  It is because of what I have learned earlier that when I get impatient or feeling worse that I remember that information.

 

10 hours ago, Adili13 said:

It it seems like we are in fact building new brains

 

The brain automatically tries to regain homeostasis, or factory settings.

 

From What is Happening in Your Brain:

 

"Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made."

                                                                            

[Sottana]

Thanks again Chessie!

 

I will certainly get around to getting through all of this valuable information. 

 

I just read a good amount of, “what is happening in your brain.” I love the World Trade Center analogy. It makes sense that when we are experiencing symptoms, it means our brains are working hard to heal, and when we aren’t, it means they’ve got it right for a moment. 

 

This is can actually be really helpful in reframing how i look at symptoms and waves. I can’t thank you enough, and really look forward to updating you more on my progress. I’m going to check out your intro now haha.

 

have a good day 

[ChessieCat]

I'm very pleased that the information is helpful.

 

When you get a chance please create a drug signature.  We've been so busy giving you information that we've forgotten to ask you.

 

For the last 2 years we need details - dates, ALL drugs, doses.  For older than 2 years a summary - years and drugs.  Please keep it simple so we can see your history at a glance.  That is, no symptoms or diagnoses.  And please remember to update it whenever you make a change so it remains current.  Thank you.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

There will be times during a taper when you feel worse.  Those worse periods can vary in length and have different causes.  It is important to try and stay as calm as possible and not to panic (which can make things worse) and to assess the whole situation and ask questions about what has happened that may have caused/contributed to it.  Have you made a reduction recently?  Have you had an argument with someone?  Have you been sick?  Have there been any external stressors?  If nothing jumps out, think about what you have eaten, come into contact with recently.  Things which didn't cause issues previously can suddenly cause a problem, or it could be that a couple of non-issues happen simultaneously and the combination causes an issue.  Unfortunately sometimes we can't work out the cause.  It is important to build up a non drug toolkit of coping techniques to help you get through the worse times.

[Sottana]

Ok Chessie,

 

I just created a signature. Please let me know if what I created will suffice or if I need to make any changes. 

 

I actually read parts of glenmullen’s book but am a bit more familiar with peter breggin’s work. I love what you sent me though! Try to stay calm and really evaluate why you might not be doing great instead of jumping to conclusions. 

[unclesteve85]

Hey anthony. I am also withdrawing from paxil. I am going on about 120 days from much to fast of a taper, but I am sticking to it. If you are having a hard time with those dosage drops, there is nothing wrong with going a little slower. These meds are different for everyone. Some people can cold turkey and have no issue, but most of us are not this lucky :P. Hang in there my friend. There is most certainly light at the end of the tunnel. Just take care of yourself and remember it will get better with time. Feel free to message me if you need someone to chat with. I know sometimes i feel like I am all alone in this and that's the worst thing ever! Just know you are not alone and you will get better!

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

For the last 2 years we need details - dates, ALL drugs, doses.  For older than 2 years a summary - years and drugs.  Please keep it simple so we can see your history at a glance.  That is, no symptoms or diagnoses.  And please remember to update it whenever you make a change so it remains current.  Thank you.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Thanks for creating a drug signature.  However, there is too much information in it and we need dates / years, not how old you were.  The information is useful but too much for a drug signature.  Please copy and paste what you currently have and post it in your topic.  Then follow the instructs above and simplify it so that we can see the information quickly without having to read through it.  If we need additional information we read through your topic.  Thanks.

[Sottana]

I just recreated my signature. Wasn’t able to fit my whole two years in bc I went through so many changes in the last two years. Prior to that, was just on lexapro. Let me know if you need anything else from me. 

[Sottana]

I was wondering if anyone experienced thoughts of anger/hate towards big pharma and/or your psychiatrist. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to diffuse these thoughts. It’s not like suing is a viable option. Have there ever even been any successful lawsuits? I’m sure the best course of action is to simply let it go and work on myself. Interested to see what others might think though 

[ChessieCat]

Here's one of SA's discussions:  can-we-talk-about-anger-towards-big-pharma

 

If you go to this forum you will see some related topics (a couple of important ones are pinned at the top of the page):  events-controversies-actions

 

Not long after I joined SA I sent emails to medical professionals, not because I was angry but because I wanted to help educate the medical community so that other psychiatric drug takers don't suffer: email-campaign

 

 

[ChessieCat]

I've found learning Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT which I have nicknamed Change Bad Thinking) helpful.

 

It's important that we try to keep ourselves as calm as possible.  Adding unnecessary anger and frustration can be detrimental and slow our healing.  There are some things we do have control over.  Even then, some of the things we have control over we need to make a decision about how it may affect our CNS.

 

Think of it this way, if our poor nervous system is busy trying to deal with stress (and this can include good stress) then its attention is taken away from regaining homeostasis/factory settings.  It's off fighting or fleeing the "enemy".  A good, actual example is when we are grieving after a loss.  It's not unusual to come down with a cold or other bug because our immunity is low.

[Sottana]

Great advice as per usual, Chessie! 

 

Im going to try to not waste unneeded energy on anger and frustration. 

 

I actuallt go to therapy for CBT already and am quite familiar with the teachings. Challenging negative thinking, refocusing, and recognizing when I’m catastrophizing. 

 

Big pharma and psychiatrists don’t deserve any more attention from me. I need to let my body heal.

 

appreciate all you do Chessie!!! 

 

Ant 

[Sottana]

I have a few questions about my recovery. So, the reason I went on antidepressants ten years ago was due to extreme anxiety which caused a lot of dp/dr. I wasn’t sure what was happening and thought I was losing my mind/was becoming schizophrenic. I’ve struggled wit dp/dr the entire time I’ve been on antidepressants, it coming and going. I think I’m some ways it actually made it harder to recover from this. During my withdrawal, I’ve found my dp/dr has become more pronounced. Old fears have resurfaced, I.e., will I become a schizophrenic and will I ever stop feeling dp/dr. I will also mention my primary diagnosis is OCD/anxiety. Was wondering if anyone had any encouraging words about this/specifically dealing dp/dr and feeling like it will end eventually. 

[Sottana]

Hey everyone.

 

having a hard time and could reallly use some advice. I’ve been on 20 mg for four months now and am still experiencing head pressure/headaches for days on end. I’m wondering if I should see a neurologist or just wait even longer. Also wondering what I should do if I’m still everperiencing this in a month or two and have held for half a year. 

 

I want to taper more but also want to stabilize. Is it possible that I just won’t stabilize on this dose and just need to taper while still having head pressure and other symptoms? 

 

Would really appreciate it if someone got back to me!! 

 

Anthony 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Sottana.

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Are they better or worse at any time of day? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

[Centime]

Hi Adili,

 

I too am tapering off Paxil, which I’ve been on for many years. Just wanted to say you’re not alone. There’s are a whole lot of people going through this. Best, Centime

[Sottana]

Hello Alto,

 

thanks for getting back to me. 

 

I basically have three types of symptoms. 

 

1. Extreme anxiety/cortisol spiked some days. 

2. Head pressure headaches/brain fog.

3. Depersonalization.

 

its seems Friday and Saturday are usually days where the anxiety is bad. The head pressure and headache stuff seems pretty random, though, being stressed out seems like it can trigger it. The thing is, when it starts, it can last for multiple days. I’m currently on my third day of head pressure/headache after a day of bad stress. 

 

[Sottana]

There’s a kind of mild depersonalization that’s always there. It can get severe if I get stressed out/focus on it too much 

[Sottana]

But it seems to pretty random other then the fact that stress seems to trigger it and I’ll go a few days feeling “ok” then go a few days with head pressure/headaches etc. the extreme anxiety days seem to last no more than a day. Sometimes a day and a half. Mornings are also more difficult for me, though I’ve heard that’s common 

[Sottana]

Wondering if anyone has any advice for the head pressure/headache symptoms. I’ve always gotten headaches, even before meds, so wondering if it’s possibly unrelated(tho I think it is). Don’t wanna take Tylenol every day and need to know holistic methods/supplements or if seeing a neurologist is a good idea. Or if that’ll just trigger my ocd and it’s kinda pointless(btw, I have ocd) 

[Sottana]

Hello to anyone out there. Really feeling discouraged and hopeless. Was wondering if anyone could reach out to offer some hope/advice please 

[unclesteve85]

Hello, Im 5.5 months off paxil and having a pretty tough time myself- feel free to message me. I dont do much sleeping anymore lol

[Sottana]

Just dropped my dose to 18 mg a little over a week ago from 20. Felt like I had basically stabilized. I’m a week into the drop and experiencing some waves already. I know that I’ve experienced healing in the past year, and know I’m better off than I was when I was at 37.5 mg. My only thing is it’s  so hard to be rational when you’re going through a wave. Even though deep down I know eventually I’ll heal, even if it takes a decade, i can’t beleive it during a wave. As soon as the wave is gone, I know I’m going to heal eventually and feel more positive about everything. My question is, how do you talk yourself out of that fatalistic thinking during waves? It seems like it can be impossible to squeeze out positive thoughts or even reframing things bc waves are so physical and it literally feels like a part of your brain is just shutting down. Any advice would be appreciated. 

[Sottana]

As an update though. It’s been almost a year since my first drop and I have definitely seen some benefits. I’m feeling emotions a bit more, getting back into writing music, and am experiencing much less suicidal thinking. If I get down/in a wave. It can be challenging, but they are never as bad or as hard to deal with as when I did my big drops. So I am generally more hopeful. Have been able to keep my job and keep paying for my apartment. All of which are huge achievements based on where I was a year ago. Struggling to get through every day. Now, I’ll have strings of up to 3 good days in a row. I know my journey is far from over, but feel like I’m on the right path now. There’s no turning back. For so many years I struggled with not knowing if I needed meds or not. It’s so freeing to know this is what I have to do, and in spite of it being horrific and filled with suffering, it’s the only logical path forward 

[ChessieCat]

Please update your drug signature whenever you make a change so that it remains current.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Sounds like you are handling things well.

 

If your symptoms become unbearable you could do a very small updose.  Even a tiny 0.25mg might be enough to take the edge off the symptoms.  However, you might find that in a few days you feel okay so you need to weigh up the pros and cons of what to do.  Only you know how you feel and only you can make the decision.

 

It may be that 10% reductions are too much.  Many members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go.   Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves  

 

You might find it better to make smaller reductions from now on.  Have you seen the Brass Monkey Slide

[Sottana]

I just updated my signature.

 

yeah, I’m going to give it some more time to see how the symptoms are. I’ll do less of a drop next time around if gets to be too hard. 

 

Thanks for advice.

 

i have seen the brass monkey slide, I wanted to give the ten percent method a shot first. Also considering doing the ten percent method but with extended holds in between changes. 

[ChessieCat]

28 minutes ago, Adili13 said:

Also considering doing the ten percent method but with extended holds in between changes. 

 

I think doing the BrassMonkey Slide would be a better option.  They would probably end up taking the same length of time, but the Slide is gentler on your system than reducing 10% and then holding for 6 weeks.

 

The Slide works out at 10% every 6 weeks except that you reduce 2.5% each week for four weeks and then hold for an extra two (which actually means holding for 3 weeks after the 4th reduction).

 

The other option would be to reduce by 5% and hold for 3 weeks.

[nick1990]

Hi there , 

have had a quick read over your topic. 

 

If theres ones thing Ive noticed , it’s that you may not have waited long enough for stability . 

Everyone wants to get off these things as fast as possible , but doing so is going to cause more suffering than anyone would like. 

 

In in my opinion, after having a crash like you did , I would be waiting ATLEAST another few months to be tapering. The nervous system is sooo fragile . 

A straight 10% drop every 4 weeks (with a hold afterwards for a week or two)  is the FASTEST recommended way to taper of SSRI’s. There is less risk involved if you go slower. Waves which are very hard to deal with and present intense symptoms are a sign that you are tapering too fast or reducing too much. Your nervous system is responding accordingly. 

 

We’re all individuals and our physiology differs tremendously person to person.

 

However I will chime in here with my experience. 

I crashed from tapering too fast and had to wait a year until I could taper again. Real stability is the best situation to be in when resuming tapering.

Please don’t rush things. A few extra months holding here and there can prevent a lot of unnecessary suffering.

 

All the best,

Nick.