Turtle76: Hi, need advice - 5 years off Paxil

[Turtle76]

Hi I was on the site Paxil Progrsss for many years back a long time ago, I was on Paxil for 20 years it was the only medication I took, I successfully weaned off took a year but had lots of physical and mental symptoms, which was too fast I realized. I am still suffering many symptoms still with anxiety & depression in Waves & Windows pattern, had a good year or two where I was functional, but still unable to drive, work, leave my city. I was completely dependent on my parents and still am at 42 years old, have tried many homeopathic remedies, supplements, acupuncture. I want a life back again, unable to have a relationship and get back into normalcy has really found me hopeless! I am able to take magnesium and a whey protein shake in the morning, I keep myself healthy and try to take walks and get plenty of sunlight and shop with my mom for grocerys, I am extremely depressed lately and have lots of physical symptoms of anxiety but the intrusive thoughts are bad at the moment, I did go to the physiologist two weeks ago and he wants me to take Zoloft at 25 mg. but I am hesitant, I know I need something, have tried many herbs but they don't work. I am looking into a compounding pharmacy to get the pills made up of 1 and 2 mg, again I am off any medication and have been off Paxil for 5 years and 3 months, I need a life back its too long to suffer this way, please any advice would be appreciated, thanks

[ChessieCat]

Hi Turtle and welcome to SA,

 

SA is a site for going off psychiatric drugs.  It is most likely that you are still experiencing withdrawal, even after 5 years of being off Paxil.

 

Understanding how psychiatric drugs change the brain, and how the brain has to adapt without the drug can be helpful.

 

The only supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil.  It is better to take magnesium throughout the day, not just once a day.

 

SA is a proponent of Non-drug techniques.  This topic discusses Light boxes for depression.        

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

protracted-withdrawal-or-paws-post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome-how-long-does-it-last

 

From what-does-healing-from-withdrawal-syndrome-feel-like:

 

"Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR streel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.  It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the buiding is a major effort"

 

 

2 hours ago, Turtle76 said:

I know I need something

 

This is a mindset, and you can change your mindset.  It can be very helpful to learn CBT.

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Acceptance

Acceptance and Mindfulness

[Turtle76]

Hi Thankyou for your reply. I will try the magnesium throughout the day, I only take it in the morning for anxiety, I am able to sleep so I really don't take it before bedtime. I have accepted my anxiety for all the years I was in withdrawal but I never had depression this bad before where I felt not stable so I am concerned and so are my parents. My wish is to stay drug free, I was able to float through all my wicked symptoms of anxiety but the depression is so intense and my parents are in there 70's and getting older, who is going to take care of them? I am at the mercy of them. I can't even take a bus by myself to even get food. These are serious circumstances.  I got off Paxil because I knew it was a harsh drug and didn't want to be on it for 30 years. I do have a appointment with a therapist this Monday to see about starting CBT and to see how I can have a life again, I put in a lot of years of withdrawal. I appreciate all your suggestions and advice, thanks again 

[ChessieCat]

You're welcome.  It's good that you are sleeping.

 

Do you get outside in the sunshine?  Do you do gentle exercise?

 

Are you taking B vitamins?  B6 can be activating hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex

 

It might be a good idea to get a full blood test done to check your levels.  You might be low in something, eg Vitamin D.

 

On 2/19/2012 at 7:03 AM, Altostrata said:

As we get older, B12 absorption in the gut declines. This won't show up in routine blood tests. Sublingual B12 is absorbed in the mouth, bypassing this problem. If you're a vegetarian or don't eat a lot of animal products, you may be low in B12 because it's found only in animal products

 

Folate and vitamin B12 are important to nerve health. Low levels contribute to nervous system fragility.

 

It's important to eat green vegetables too.

 

23 minutes ago, Turtle76 said:

my parents are in there 70's and getting older,

 

This is probably causing you a lot of stress.  It's a tough thing to deal with even for people not in the midst of AD WD.  You may be doing what I call pre-grieving (I've just googled this and it is also called anticipatory grieving).  I had a sick husband for many years and went through periods of this.  This is something I would mention to the therapist.  It's not just about them dying but about how you will cope during and afterwards.

 

If it were me, I would not be mentioning withdrawal, especially at the first appointment.  If they suggest a drug politely say that you would prefer to start by learn non-drug techniques.  I wouldn't let them think that you are totally against drugs otherwise they may label you as resistant/obstinate which might affect the way they counsel you.  Psychiatric drugs don't get rid of life's problems and stresses, they just numb your feelings.

 

When I was prescribed an AD 25 years ago, counselling was not even mentioned.  My problems were external stresses and if I had being taught ways to cope I probably would not have needed drugs.

 

[Turtle76]

Yes my parents are getting older and need my help, this issue is causing me a lot of stress and I wonder if I will ever be able to survive on my own. Thankyou for googling this, I am going to read about it when I get some clarity and energy back. I am just so exhausted of this ongoing process, drug withdrawal has zapped my nervous system and muscles and coordination. I probably should apply for disability  how bad I am. I will not mention anything about withdrawal at my therapist appointment, I really need someone to talk with regarding my life and stress,  I have been complaining to my family for far to long. I take a B-vitamin called Pantothenic Acid which is a B-5 and is used to help the brain and adrenal glands, I have taken it for many years with no problems and helps some with energy, although lately I am so exhausted. I do take short walks in the sunshine when my anxiety is low and it helps to be in nature. I do need a blood test but so scared to get one, I will need help from a therapist in this area, I do eat greens but some greens I am allergic too. So overall I really need help overcoming my fears and gaining confidence again, I hoping talk therapy will help, just a tough time in my life now, thanks again 

[ChessieCat]

27 minutes ago, Turtle76 said:

Hello I was curious about the herb passionflower for sleep and relaxation? I have been off Paxil for a little over 5 years and still in withdrawal. I tryed B12 for the nervous system but it was too activating for my fragile nerves. I got in a terrible kayak accident last February and it bruised my bladder, I am slowly recovering but my internal organs are fragile, I think I have PTSD from the accident, my brain is always on fight and flight, I have a great therapist I saw today so I hope she can help me with the trama. I was seeing if I could try to take some passionflower to help my sleep lately I have been restless and wake up feeling tired and unrested with cortisol spikes throughout the day, some nights have been peaceful. I have used Bach rescue flower remedy with success but it doesn't help with night anxiety, so I am looking for something to take the edge of naturally, thanks

 

I've moved your new topic to an existing discussion:  passion-flower

 

There is also this one:  supplements-what-helps-what-doesnt

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes

 

[Turtle76]

Thankyou for directing me in the right place, have not been on these sites for many years, but when I got in a accident in February the trauma really ramped up my withdrawal symptoms so it's like a second phase of withdrawal for me, Thankyou again for the information.

[Turtle76]

Thankyou for directing me in the right place, have not been on these sites for many years, but when I got in a accident in February the trauma really ramped up my withdrawal symptoms so it's like a second phase of withdrawal for me, Thankyou again for the information

[Turtle76]

Hi I was wondering if anyone can tell me how long there suidicial ideation and intrusive thoughts lasted? In terms of months or weeks? I have been drug free for 5 years and 3 months. I got in a terrible accident in February and the trauma was intense and saw many regular doctors, homeopathic doctors and had some scans done as well checking to see if there had been further damage. I feel I am healing in many ways but also have very bad health anxiety and it's causing so much worry. Before this accident I was more functional and now I am back to seems what is worst than withdrawal ever was for me, maybe it's true blue anxiety now or a mix of REAL depression and anxiety with withdrawal. I know on September 6th I had acupuncture done, she placed 7 needles around my feet, legs and one in my ear, I can tell I was a tad bit worse after this day and everyday have such terrible thoughts to the point I don't want to be left alone. I never had this early in my withdrawal and if I ever had lasted for a just a couple of days then went away. I just started therapy but will not talk about what is happening because she will suggest I go on a drug, I am so scared now I have no idea how long this will last? I was a stable person till I had my accident and now feel unstable, I really don't know what to do, I guess just ride it out crying!!! I do get in the sunlight everyday and walk about 20 minutes a day in nature, I thought I was going to heal completely but this accident left me weak and mentally unstable, any suggestions would be appreciated. I just started taking the passionflower herb a small half capsule before bedtime to help with sleep, this will be my third night in a row but no changes  yet and still feel the same. I also am very sensitive to most supplements but continue to take the magnesium, I can only take it in the morning, if I take it in the afternoon or night I feel overly tired and a drunk feeling. I am so worried and I did see a physiologist and he said to take Zoloft at 25 mg. I really don't want to take it because I know the health risks and this is why I got off Paxil in the first place, and I have no idea if it will help my symptoms? My hope is that I stabilize soon.

[ChessieCat]

You might find this topic helpful:  are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

[Turtle76]

Thankyou for your reply, So my depression and anxiety seem worse, the intrusive thoughts are really getting to me. I basically am so down I cry almost all the time. I really don't want to take the Zoloft but am so desperate to find just a glimpse of hope and relief. I had some terror attacks lasts night and wanted to scream it was so bad. I went to a holostic doctor and he suggested these products, I am unsure of the safety of them, but it's a formula with St. John Worts it's called NutriZac and the other has Gingko in it for depression, I am medication free but hit such a dark scary road now. 😩😩

[Gridley]

Have you tried the magnesium and fish oil omegas suggested earlier?  Many members find these calming.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Magnesium glycinate is a good form of magnesium.  You can dissolve a bit in water and sip it throughout the day.

 

Try these one at a time and at a low dose to start.

 

If you do acupuncture again, be sure to tell the acupuncturist not to do anything stimulating.

 

This is what SA's founder, Altostrata, wrote about St. John's wort:

 

"St. John's Wort is a noradrenergic, which is why it causes "mania" -- like SNRIs. Generally, people with withdrawal syndrome do poorly with anything that is stimulating. If you have withdrawal anxiety or insomnia, it may make those symptoms worse."

 

Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.  You can also Google "SurvivingAntidepressants St. John's wort"

 

Unfortunately, medical practitioners, including holistic ones, know little, if anything, about antidepressant withdrawal.

 

Members have reported gingko as stimulating, and one of the side effects is restlessness.  I would be leery of it as well.  I think you would be better off with the non-drug coping skills suggested by ChessieCat earlier in this thread (her first post on September 12).

 

 

 

 

[Turtle76]

HI, Thankyou for your response, I haven't tried the fish oil yet, early in my withdrawal it was overstimulating but now I will try it again very slowly, I do take magnesium oxide, the bottle says chelated magnesium so I am wondering now if all along I was taking the wrong source of magnesium? I will switch over to magnesium glycinate, maybe these changes will help! All I know is I have felt worse after the acupuncture visit and will not be doing to again for now, I need to get stable somehow feel crazy sometimes, like a man is cutting into my wrists, it's so gross and disgusting & should not feel this bad, even in my early days of withdrawal had major symptoms but they were not this emotional and bad! 

[Turtle76]

I also have a question is there a brand of fish oil that has been well tolerated? Also what is the difference between magnesium oxide and glycinate?

[Gridley]

The glycinate is reported to be better absorbed and easier on the stomach.

 

Regarding the omega, everyone's different.  I use OmegaBrite and have tolerated it well.  However, It's more expensive that many others on the market.

 

It's a good idea to take 400IU vitamins E once a day along with your omegas.

 

The link I supplied earlier on omegas has a discussion on dosage.

 

 

[Turtle76]

Great info thanks! Will definitely try all the supplements I am so desperate now to feel good again, Will update soon on my progress! I think I had every mental and physical symptom in withdrawal but by far this has been the scariest in terms of the length with all the intrusive thoughts & night terrors. But I am trying to stay drug free! 👍

[ChessieCat]

14 hours ago, Turtle76 said:

it's a formula with St. John Worts it's called NutriZac

 

It's not a good idea to take anything that is made up of a combination of things.  If you have a reaction you won't know what caused it.

 

And SA's gingko topic:  gingko-and-ginseng

 

Only try one thing at a time and test by taking a small dose.  And keep daily notes on paper.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

[Turtle76]

HI, yes I decided not to take the St. John's Wort combination and also Gingko, this is what the homeopathic doctor suggested but I can not afford to get any worse and I am very sensitive to most supplements. I am going to try the fish oil with vitamin E. I bought the NOW brand fish oil with natural fish oil concentrate (2,000mg) with EPA (360mg) & DHA (240mg). The bottle says to take 2 soft gels twice daily with food. So should I start with one soft gel a day? Also I bought a bottle of vitamin E in soft gel form, should I take these together to start? 

[Gridley]

Yes, start with one fish oil per day.  You can take it with one 400IU vitamin E.

 

Other than the EPA and DHA (total 600mg), what are the other ingredients that make up the 2000mg?

 

 

 

[Turtle76]

Hi, it just says on the bottle natural fish oil concentrate (2,000) and omega 3 fatty acids EPA (360mg) & DHA (240mg) and total fat is 2grams, this is for 2 soft gel capsules. I hope this is ok, there was so many brands to choose from.

[Turtle76]

On the front of the bottle it says: Moleculary Distilled Omega-3 Cardiovascular Support, 180 EPA/120 DHA 

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, Gridley said:

Yes, start with one fish oil per day.  You can take it with one 400IU vitamin E. 

 

It would be better to start one type of supplement at a time.  Some members do react to a supplement.  If you take both together and have an issue you won't know which is causing it.  You can add the second type of supplement after you make sure the first one doesn't cause any problems.

[Turtle76]

Hi, So I decided to take a fish oil soft gel and one vitamin E gel cap this afternoon with food, I did feel a little more stimulated and that weird off feeling, but now I see a message that I should try one at a time, so now I have no idea which supplement over-stimulated me? Which should I try first the fish oil, vitamin E or Magnesium Glycinate? I did also purchase Doctors Best Magnesium Glycinate but still have to continue to take the Magnesium Oxide in the morning since I have been taking it for many many years. Idk kinda confused 🤔

[Turtle76]

Unfortunately even certain sounds and music can set me off my irritability, anxiety amd depression, had this early in withdrawal. 

[ChessieCat]

If you've been taking the mag and had no issues then adding something new would be okay, because if a problem arises you already know it isn't (likely to be) the mag.

 

I'd start with the fish oil and after testing you could then add the Vit E.

[Turtle76]

That sounds like the safer way, I will take the fish oil for 3 days to see if I react and then proceed to the vitamin E.  One of the supplements I took today is over-stimulating me but won't know until next week. This is the best website ever, all of you are so smart and knowledgable & really appreciate the help, I never thought I would be back on the sites but life is so full of unexpected events and trauma it can even injure our fragile minds. 

[Turtle76]

Hi, I can't take this life anymore, I am very stressed. The fish oil has not worked &  also the vitamin E didn't either. I have tryed 20 minute walks everyday and can't do these alone they have to be with my mom and I am 42 years old! I also layout in the sun and make sure I am in the sun everyday nothing has helped. I am also doing CBT with a therapist but the anxiety is very bad also the  depression is suicidal and feeling like I am going crazy! My eyes feel like they are swimming with a dream like state, I am not in a stable condition. I am seriously looking into going on Zoloft, I need relief at least for a little bit of time. If anyone can answer what is the safest dose to start with? Should I go on the Zoloft at 25 milligrams, or start at a even lowest dose? I need to do this I cannot cope. If anyone can please answer me? How would I know if I had a bad reaction?  If I get a 10% relief I would be happy. I also am taking magnesium citrate at 250 milligrams a day and  magnesium glycinate but can only do 50 milligrams a day, have tried the whole pill but it's too much makes me feel a little hyper but at 50 milligrams I can handle it. I know this is a site for getting off medication but I am in a black hole right now. I get no relief, I am crying nonstop 😢

[ChessieCat]

Please create your drug signature so that we can see your drug history at a glance.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature  No symptoms or diagnoses:

 

Details for the last 2 years - dates, all drugs, doses

Summary for older than 2 years - just years and drugs

 

Post #1 of this topic is about reinstating, however there are good ideas about how and why to start with a small dose:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Zoloft can easily be made into a liquid by dissolving the tablet in water:  Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

Only you can make the decision about whether you go onto Zoloft.  Please be aware that your CNS may be sensitised so taking a doctor's suggested dose may be too much. 

 

These are my thoughts:  If I was starting a new drug I would be starting at a very low dose.  The medical profession talks about "therapeutic dose" but this is an arbitary thing which the pharmaceutical companies use.  Just a number pulled out of the air.  SA prefers to use the term "lowest effective dose".  I think I'd start with 1mg to see how I reacted to it.  If things worsened I would stop immediately.  If after 1 week nothing worsened I would probably go to 5mg and see how things went.  It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Keep daily notes of your symptoms.

[Turtle76]

Hi chessiecat,

     Thankyou for your reply, I had a question since I have the Zoloft the original dose was 50 mg but the doctor said to cut the pill to 25 mg for a lower dose to start, my question is how do I cut the pill to 1mg? I have a pill cutter & I don't have a liquid form of Zoloft.

[Turtle76]

Hi chessiecat,

       It's very complicated can I cut the pill into 4 and that way I could start at 12.5 mg.? 

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

Make your own liquid
Many people make their own Zoloft liquid out of tablets and water. See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

[Turtle76]

Hi Thankyou for your reply, I am so confused right now my plan was to never take a drug again for the rest of my life, I have been drug free for so long now, and I just cry & cry thinking.. I am going to have a bad reaction and not take the right dose, or mess me up? Having so much anxiety, depression and stress. I am in a such a hole right now. Even if I tried to make a liquid I couldn't because it seems to complicated for my crazy brain right now. I can't afford to get any worse. I wish there was a Better answer for me. All night I was sleeping I had a crying in my brain & sometimes a screaming feeling in my brain, like my brain was crying but I wasn't physically crying. I have no idea what to do but I have that unstable feeling. It's so hard for me to play around with doses and not be exact when it comes to drugs, when I tapered Paxil, I just used a nail file, it was hard but easy in some aspects. So, so confused, I just pray I make a good decision

[Turtle76]

Maybe I should try some walnuts to help ease the depression, the fish oil and vitamin E didn't work.  😩

[coldturkmama]

Have you tried Claire weekes program? 

She is really good and I think it would benefit you.

[Turtle76]

Hi Thankyou for your advice I bought a Claire weeks book hope & help for your nerves and should read it again, also I watched the utube videos today! I really need extra help, it's the depression that has been so hard lately, I get it nonstop and terrible intrusive thoughts, I have always been able to fight through the anxiety but the nonstop depression has been brutal. Maybe I did suffer a nervous breakdown after my accident from the stress and the anxiety, panic and physical symptoms it hurled me into some hard core depression, I have always had mild depression but never to this point before, it's very disheartening 😢

[ChessieCat]

9 hours ago, Turtle76 said:

Hi Thankyou for your reply, I am so confused right now my plan was to never take a drug again for the rest of my life, I have been drug free for so long now, and I just cry & cry thinking.. I am going to have a bad reaction and not take the right dose, or mess me up? Having so much anxiety, depression and stress. I am in a such a hole right now. Even if I tried to make a liquid I couldn't because it seems to complicated for my crazy brain right now. I can't afford to get any worse. I wish there was a Better answer for me. All night I was sleeping I had a crying in my brain & sometimes a screaming feeling in my brain, like my brain was crying but I wasn't physically crying. I have no idea what to do but I have that unstable feeling. It's so hard for me to play around with doses and not be exact when it comes to drugs, when I tapered Paxil, I just used a nail file, it was hard but easy in some aspects. So, so confused, I just pray I make a good decision

 

Unfortunately there are times we just have to "suck it up" and do what we have to do.  I have found that if I am having difficulties with something that writing down the instructions helps.

 

Making a liquid from a Zoloft tablet is not difficult.  I understand that your brain is in a mess at the moment and that it seems hard.  I experience the same problem so I do know what it is like.  Or is there someone who can help you with this?  Put the tablet in the measured amount water the night before you need to take the dose.  As long as you do everything the same way and use the same things then the dose will be consistent.

 

Dissolve:

 

50mg tablet in 50mL of water each 1mL of liquid will be a 1mg dose.

 

If measuring 1mL is difficult to measure then dissolve:

 

50mg tablet in 500mL of water and each 10mL of liquid will be a 1mg dose.

 

Once you have tested the 1mg dose then you could dissolve the 50mg tablet in 50mL of water and you would take 5mL for 5mg dose.

 

The left over can be kept in a covered container in the fridge for a few days.