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KMart95

KMart95: a life free of antidepressants

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KMart95

Thankfully depression has settled but fatigue has reached an unbearable level. Waking up feeling completely unrefreshed and within 20 minutes it's like narcolepsy. Haven't had much of an existence the past 10 days or so and thinking I will go back to getting IV vitamins in case i'm not absorbing much in pill form. 

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KMart95

Trying to cope with this but I feel like i'm losing my mind. This wave or whatever it is, is worse than any i've ever been through. I'm pretty much having mental breakdowns daily, i've become so sick both physically and mentally that I can't leave my house. I feel that there is a huge hormone component but the hospital and doctors i've been to the past 7 months don't believe me when I say I think it's my hormones since stopping the pill so they won't test anything. I'm feeling very suicidal and scared. My symptoms right now are

 

-debilitating fatigue, tremors, blood sugar swings, anger and irritability, bad acne, major hair loss, depression, suicidal thoughts, crying spells, OCD, brain fog, weakness and total loss of motivation. 

 

i'm not sure if something I took or did put me into a horrendous wave or if my hormones are just so messed up that it's making me really sick.. maybe both. I'm at this point of desperation where I almost want to take meds again because i'm scared i'm going to lose my mind. The B Vitamins went totally paradoxical on me and I can't take them anymore either 😓 if I had not stopped two different medications at once I don't think i'd be in this predicament.

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puthappinessfirst

Very sorry to hear you're struggling so much, K!

It's super awful. 

Hormones play a big role in our mental health, but I don't think it's the whole picture.

I feel for you though, I know mine are all over the place too. 

Terrible acne popping up, painful periods, definite dips in mood or more anxiety 2 weeks before my cycle, etc. 

Never had those issues before. But I CT celexa not too long after I CT my birth control as well. I know it created a sh*t storm. 

You will get through this!

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KMart95
5 minutes ago, puthappinessfirst said:

Very sorry to hear you're struggling so much, K!

It's super awful. 

Hormones play a big role in our mental health, but I don't think it's the whole picture.

I feel for you though, I know mine are all over the place too. 

Terrible acne popping up, painful periods, definite dips in mood or more anxiety 2 weeks before my cycle, etc. 

Never had those issues before. But I CT celexa not too long after I CT my birth control as well. I know it created a sh*t storm. 

You will get through this!

Thank you for the positivity , I need some of that today ! I don't think it's the whole problem either. I seem to be in a weird wave, possibly from changing and trying a few different things. Hormones fluctuations make withdrawal so much worse !  

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puthappinessfirst

Yeah, your changes could have certainly put you in a wave, I think.

Couple that with hormonal imbalances and it gets crazy. 

Also, b vitamins are a no go for a lot of people in wd because it just ramps them up way too much. 

So you're not alone there either. 

Just don't try anything new for a while, give your body to catch up and rest maybe. 

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KMart95

I had an IV today and the naturopath put ATP in it. No idea what that is, she said it would help with energy. I'm praying I don't react to it.

 

If Prozac does in fact cause mitochondrial damage & chronic fatigue syndrome, is there any chance it's reversible? I hate the fact i'm still on this drug. Even though i'm on a very low dose, I feel like it's done some serious damage and it's only getting worse and worse over time.

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brassmonkey

Adenosine triphosphate; is a cancer and heart medication that has a minor side effect of increased energy in some people. 

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eymen23
Posted (edited)

Please tread carefully @KMart95.

 

You recently changed your syringe technique that could have led to a reduction in dose over 10%, switched back your syringe technique, then had an adverse reaction to CoQ10 and today you had an IV with ATP.

 

I know you are really struggling at the moment, but you must try and be cautious not to upset the apple cart. Trialling supplements can occasionally work out, but when the system is already off kilter it can often go the other way. 

 

I’m not able to give an answer in regards to chronic fatigue as I’m not an expert, but please remember you are on a low dose of Prozac and over time it will only get lower. It sounds like this is a particularly bad wave, that seemed to coincide with the change in syringe technique.

 

As tempting as it is to ‘fix’ the situation, consistency and patience is often the path to stabilising. It’s hard to leave symptoms alone when things get debilitating, but please try to hang in there. 

Edited by eymen23

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KMart95
1 minute ago, eymen23 said:

Please tread carefully @KMart95.

 

You recently changed your syringe technique that could have led to a reduction in dose over 10%, switched back your syringe technique, then had an adverse reaction to CoQ10 and today you had an IV with ATP.

 

I know you are really struggling at the moment, but you must try and be cautious not to upset the apple cart. Trialling supplements can occasionally work out, but when the system is already off kilter it can often go the other way. 

 

I’m not able to give an answer in regards to chronic fatigue as I’m not an expert, but please remember you are on a low dose of Prozac and over time it will only get lower. It sounds like this is a particularly bad wave, that seemed to coincide with the change in syringe technique.

 

As tempting as it is to ‘fix’ the situation, consistency and patience is often the path to stabilising. It’s hard to leave symptoms alone when things get debilitating, but please try to hang in there. 

Thanks eymen23, I do agree with you. I have not touched anything since the COQ10. The IV is a vitamin cocktail I have been getting for many years. The doctor put the ATP in and didn't tell me until after. I told her i've had chronic fatigue but i've never mentioned my nervous system is sensitive because I figured she'd think i'm crazy. I am trying really hard to just go with the flow. Next time I get an IV i'll make sure it is strictly vitamins.

26 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Adenosine triphosphate; is a cancer and heart medication that has a minor side effect of increased energy in some people. 

Thanks !

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eymen23
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, KMart95 said:

Thanks eymen23, I do agree with you. I have not touched anything since the COQ10. The IV is a vitamin cocktail I have been getting for many years. The doctor put the ATP in and didn't tell me until after. I told her i've had chronic fatigue but i've never mentioned my nervous system is sensitive because I figured she'd think i'm crazy. I am trying really hard to just go with the flow. Next time I get an IV i'll make sure it is strictly vitamins.

 

If there is no harm done with the ATP or it even helps, then it might be ok to keep this included. I only wanted to highlight the importance of consistency and letting the body figure things out. 

 

Take care.

Edited by eymen23

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KMart95
Just now, eymen23 said:

 

If there is no harm done with the ATP or it even helps, then it might be ok to keep this included. I only wanted to highlight the importance of consistency and letting the body figure things out. 

 

Take care.

I appreciate it very much ! Sometimes I need people to remind me that experimenting isn't the way to go. If I notice any problems I won't be having it again. Today I managed to spend most of the day out and about which is a small win for me.

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RusTW

Kmart sorry your getting waved hard Waves suck

They come and go.sometimes easy sometimes hard but we always make it through.

Hoping for improvements for you.This is a challenging journey.

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KMart95

I slept ALL day and when I woke up at 6:30 this evening I felt so weird and weak I couldn't lift my arms and struggled to make dinner. Then had a major crying spell and panic attack. I'm done with all suppplements and IVS including b vitamins until my nervous system has settled way down. My fatigue has gotten to a dangerous spot and my mom was pushing me to go to the ER but I know they won't help me. I'm scared and frustrated. 

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Tom37

Try not to be scared of the symptoms but I know that’s easier said than done.

Accepting the symptoms and the position your in is half the battle especially as it could take some time for you to feel significantly better. Try to look at the symptoms in a positive way in that it’s your body repairing itself so it can get back to ‘normal’ settings. Unfortunately it means we have to go through plenty of trials and tribulations to get to the other side but the most important thing to remember is that all this is just temporary.

 

You will get through it...one step at a time until this is all behind you.

 

Try to keep everything the same medication and supplement wise so you don’t destabilise yourself any further. The fatigue could easily be just plain wd which will get better in time.

 

Take care.

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KMart95
On 8/9/2019 at 1:26 AM, Tom37 said:

Try not to be scared of the symptoms but I know that’s easier said than done.

Accepting the symptoms and the position your in is half the battle especially as it could take some time for you to feel significantly better. Try to look at the symptoms in a positive way in that it’s your body repairing itself so it can get back to ‘normal’ settings. Unfortunately it means we have to go through plenty of trials and tribulations to get to the other side but the most important thing to remember is that all this is just temporary.

 

You will get through it...one step at a time until this is all behind you.

 

Try to keep everything the same medication and supplement wise so you don’t destabilise yourself any further. The fatigue could easily be just plain wd which will get better in time.

 

Take care.

Thank you for the message. It's tough for me. I've always had really bad anxiety, including health anxiety. It has gotten way better in the sense that in the beginning I was freaking out and going to the ER constantly, but it is still very tough to deal with distressing symptoms, especially thoughts. I am trying to learn to go with the flow more. 

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KMart95

@eymen23 I am going to be seeing my doctor this week to get the 1:1 liquid. What do I need to know when switching over? Is it safe for me to start it next week or do I need to wait for stabilization? 

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KMart95
1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

Thanks, i'm starting therapy again this month. This whole experience has actually made my health anxiety a million times better , but I do still view much of my identity as my health, because I have had health problems since I was 10. I'm hoping getting help & sticking with it will make things a lot easier for me in the future and during my taper. 

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eymen23
Posted (edited)

KMart,

 

We would not advise transitioning to a new liquid until you are feeling more stable. I would give it another few weeks before making any new changes. Although many can transition to new generics or liquids quite seamlessly, these transitions can be very rough on some members, and that will especially be the case where you already feel destabilised. 

 

To transition from one liquid to another, you will need to use the method below.

 

3/4 liquid A and 1/4 liquid B for 3-7 days

1/2 liquid A and 1/2 liquid B for 3-7 days

1/4 liquid A and 3/4 liquid B for 3-7 days

continue with liquid B for your full dose 

 

Using your current dosage of 1.48mg (noting your syringe technique), that means dosage increments of:

 

1.12mg liquid A and 0.36mg liquid B

0.76mg liquid A and 0.72mg liquid B

0.36mg liquid A and 1.12mg liquid B

 

You may notice that these doses are not exactly 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4. This is because I’ve factored in that it would be impossible for you to accurately measure certain dosages of liquid A, as the lowest dosage increment possible is 0.01ml which represents 0.04mg. Hence you could not accurately take 1.11mg of liquid A which would be exactly 3/4, rather I suggest you take 1.12mg which is 0.28ml. 

 

You will also need to factor in your syringe technique when making these changes, so that you don’t end up taking more Prozac during the transition period. We can help with you with all of this when the time is right. 

 

Edited by eymen23

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KMart95
Posted (edited)

Thank you ! I will follow starting following this when I feel stable enough to switch. I am curious as to why the transition has to be made in general. Since I am already taking liquid and just switching to a different ratio (and say it is the same generic) how is it possible that there could be an issue?

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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eymen23
Posted (edited)

KMart,

 

Some individuals experience significant waves and discomfort after making changes to their medication, whether that be brand, concentration, inactive ingredients, tablets vs liquid etc.

 

From what I understood you are currently taking a pharmaceutical liquid and will be obtaining a new custom made liquid from a compound pharmacy. We can only guess as to how the two liquids will differ, and how you will react to the change.

 

Here we advocate harm reduction, and it is our experience that an extra few weeks here or there, can save a lot of distress and difficult symptoms. Numerous members have struggled in transitioning to tablets or liquids from compound pharmacies, so given our uncertainty as to how any individual’s nervous system will react, we suggest that everyone follows the above transition protocol. 

 

If you feel this is unnecessary, you are always welcome to do things in whichever way you please. We can only provide guidance and make suggestions based on our cumulative knowledge and experience, it is for you to decide. 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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KMart95
Posted (edited)

I did not mean for it to come off that I was not going to follow the protocol, I was just curious of the reasoning behind it. It didn't register in my mind that even though I am already taking liquid, the new liquid will be from a different pharmacy and will most likely have different ingredients and the brand may be different. The brain fog is real! LOL. Thank you for telling me the dosages I will need to take, that makes it a lot less daunting ! 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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eymen23

No problem. Yes, when we switch to compounded medications they often have different inactive ingredients and the drug itself may well be provided by a different supplier. We believe these factors can impact on absorption and bioavailability, leading to the waves and difficult symptoms when people don’t transition over slowly. I’m sure there are other reasons beyond our current knowledge or lines of thinking. 

 

More so than anything else, we know that this can be largely avoided by following the protocol above and given how destabilised you’ve been, it would be strongly advised for when the time comes. 

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KMart95
Posted (edited)

Thanks so much ! I'm so glad I have learned this, I would have just done a straight switch if I hadn't known better. 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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KMart95

I just found out today that my thyroid is quite enlarged. I'm seeing an endocrinologist on Wednesday and had blood work done, i'm crossing my fingers that this may be the answer to a big part of what is going on with me. 

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KMart95

The worst of the wave has ended. I have been able to function and do minor stuff the past 2 days. Once the reaction to the IV settled down it seemed to give me a slight energy boost. 

 

I have been focusing a lot lately on accepting my symptoms and focusing on the good. I haven't posted the full extent of what I have gone through here because many of us have gone through h*ll and I don't feel it's necessary. In the first few months I did not think I would make it through. My family had me taken by ambulance twice when I was at my worst with very dark thoughts. I have come to realize I am a lot stronger than I thought and if I can get through this, I can get through anything. I still have a very hard time accepting that I am not well enough to be independent and those thoughts go through my head several times a day , but I am going to be working with my therapist to change my mindset on that too. I wanted to list a few things that have improved or completely gone away to hopefully give someone hope who might come across my thread. I have a long way to go, and I still have very bad days, but I appreciate the good ones more than ever. So here it is :

 

- No more akasthisia / restlessness

- No more homicidal thoughts (this was terrifying)

- No more extreme dizziness

- No more depersonalization 

- No more Light & sound sensitivity  

- Rarely have panic attacks anymore 

- POTS is 75% better !! 

- Histamine intolerance is 80% better and I can eat many high histamine foods without issues 

- No more cortisol spikes in the early morning hours 

- Anger 90% better

 

What i'm still dealing with 

 

- Chronic fatigue

- Depression

- Tremors

- Weakness

- Blurry vision

- Stomach problems

- Minor brain fog 

- Trouble falling asleep

- Bouts of OCD

 

I am very grateful for this forum and the people who take their time to help myself & so many others .

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Cocopuffz17
Posted (edited)

That is awesome! Keep powering through, it will get better. Yes, I am very grateful for all the individuals who dedicate time and help everyone out. Thank you! 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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KMart95

I got the 1:1 liquid. It's going to take about a week to be ready. My family doctor is so amazing. He acknowledges withdrawal, an extremely slow taper and nervous system hypersensitivity. I had to teach him about everything, because before he knew pretty much nothing and would rec that people pretty much cold turkey off meds, but he's been really open and will pretty much do anything I ask of him LOL.

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KMart95

An update - the past 4 days or so have been okay. Fatigue continues to be a problem but I somehow managed to pull myself out of a really bad spell and got out and about the past few days. My stamina is becoming less and less which is upsetting but as long as I can still do anything at all besides lying in bed, I will. I'm no longer taking B vitamins since I started to have reactions to them, so it is much more difficult to push through the fatigue, and I have to rely on expensive IVs every few weeks to get the nutrients I need (I have malabsorption). The depression has improved a ton so I think B vitamins were contributing WAY more than I thought. I have family visiting right now and we are going to be having a big get together at my house on Tuesday, so i'm a bit worried how i'll manage when all I want to do is lie down and rest. My endo appointment was uneventful. Everything came back normal, including my hormones, but I still plan on doing a month long thyroid panel- as I feel testing your hormones on one day doesn't show the full picture.

 

Other than that, i'm still waiting for my 1:1 liquid to be ready. It should be here Wednesday, and I feel well enough to start the switch in the coming week. I am getting nervous thinking about finally starting a taper. It just seems so daunting and i'm very scared of failure. I don't want to mess it up.

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KMart95

I feel like all the things I didn't like about myself are coming back now that i'm almost off Prozac & i'm really stressed. I don't know if this is me or withdrawal. I've had extreme anxiety from as far back as 6 years old & my parents put me on medication when it really started effecting my school life. How can I differentiate between withdrawal & a return of my old habits? I have been medicated for so long that I haven't learned coping skills. Sometimes I feel like I need to be on an SSRI. I can't deal with feeling sick all the time PLUS my old self getting in the way of living my life. My family wants me to apply for disability and at 24 years old that makes me really sad. I'm not in a good place right now.

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eymen23
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, KMart95 said:

 My family wants me to apply for disability and at 24 years old that makes me really sad. I'm not in a good place right now.

 

KMart,

 

I’m really sorry to hear of the difficult situation that is troubling you now, and I can appreciate how hard it is being in such a place in your early 20s.

 

My issues with anxiety symptoms and stress intolerance began aged 20, and I have had some really, really difficult times in the past 8 years. Despite all of that, I have continued to learn more about myself and the behaviours of others through therapy, CBT, mindfulness, books, internet etc. 

 

Although I may never be able to live the typical life of a 50-60 hour work week, rushing around between family commitments and an active social life, I am mostly content and surrounding myself with friends that both understand and support me. 

 

It’s sad to feel like life is over before it has even begun, but you have so much time ahead to focus on a career, children, relationships, wealth building, travelling etc (if this is what you want). Try to use this time to focus inwardly and work on developing your view of yourself and the world. By changing our relationship with our thoughts, our bodies, and indeed the outside world, we can really dampen down the stress and anxiety reactions over time. 

Edited by eymen23

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KMart95
10 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

 

KMart,

 

I’m really sorry to hear of the difficult situation that is troubling you now, and I can appreciate how hard it is being in such a place in your early 20s.

 

My issues with anxiety symptoms and stress intolerance began aged 20, and I have had some really, really difficult times in the past 8 years. Despite all of that, I have continued to learn more about myself and the behaviours of others through therapy, CBT, mindfulness, books, internet etc. 

 

Although I may never be able to live the typical life of a 50-60 hour work week, rushing around between family commitments and an active social life, I am mostly content and surrounding myself with friends that both understand and support me. 

 

It’s sad to feel like life is over before it has even begun, but you have so much time ahead to focus on a career, children, relationships, wealth building, travelling etc (if this is what you want). Try to use this time to focus inwardly and work on developing your view of yourself and the world. By changing our relationship with our thoughts, our bodies, and indeed the outside world, we can really dampen down the stress and anxiety reactions over time. 

Thanks for the encouraging words Eymen23. I have started to notice my anxiety really getting in the way of daily life and i'm isolating myself like I used to when I was younger. It is a particularly bad day because family is visting from away. We are having a big get together at my house and I am too unwell to get out of bed. I feel ashamed and embarassed that I am going through this right now, despite the fact I didn't do this on purpose. I have my first therapy session on Thursday and i'm very eager, I know I need it. I've been placing way too much stress on myself about the fact that I cannot work, etc .. it's almost like my brain just won't shut those thoughts off that i'm a failure. So that's where i'm at right now. Once I start the taper I know i'll feel a little better knowing i'm working towards something, but I also know that getting off the drug won't help me if I can't learn to cope better without it. 

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KMart95

The liquid finally arrived ! I am nervous but excited. I'm in a hormonal wave right now so i'm going to wait a few days before I switch. I'm a little annoyed because the bottle is SO small and cost me $60. I'm going to be taking a lot of it and I feel like i'll run out so fast, so I don't know what to do about that. Can I ask them to make larger bottles or do compounded liquids usually come in small amounts? 

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KMart95

It has to be refrigerated.

20190821_143353_compress90.jpg

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eymen23
16 minutes ago, KMart95 said:

The liquid finally arrived ! I am nervous but excited. I'm in a hormonal wave right now so i'm going to wait a few days before I switch. I'm a little annoyed because the bottle is SO small and cost me $60. I'm going to be taking a lot of it and I feel like i'll run out so fast, so I don't know what to do about that. Can I ask them to make larger bottles or do compounded liquids usually come in small amounts? 

 

How many ml of drug are they providing per bottle? Sometimes you can negotiate prices and quantities with compounding pharmacies, but truly it depends how flexible they are. 

 

I have a feeling that it might be wise to wait a little longer before transitioning over to the new liquid. You have made a lot of posts that suggest instability as of late, so please tread carefully. 

 

Please also be cautious of your syringe technique when working out how to take your dosages during the transition. If you plan to consume the amount left in the syringe tip, you will need to bear in mind that you are taking 0.05-0.06ml more liquid than what’s labelled on the side of the syringe. 

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KMart95
11 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

 

How many ml of drug are they providing per bottle? Sometimes you can negotiate prices and quantities with compounding pharmacies, but truly it depends how flexible they are. 

 

I have a feeling that it might be wise to wait a little longer before transitioning over to the new liquid. You have made a lot of posts that suggest instability as of late, so please tread carefully. 

 

Please also be cautious of your syringe technique when working out how to take your dosages during the transition. If you plan to consume the amount left in the syringe tip, you will need to bear in mind that you are taking 0.05-0.06ml more liquid than what’s labelled on the side of the syringe. 

40ml in the bottle .. so not much ! My mom said it's small because it expires but i'm not sure if that's true. They seem to think that since i'm taking a small dose I only need a small amount of liquid. My other bottle is tiny like this too and it hasn't lasted long at all.

 

Yes, I agree. I have been dealing with some pretty bad depression & although i'm eager to start, I plan to wait. I have a feeling in a few days i'll be feeling better though, I know my hormone cycle by now and when i'll be in and out of waves. But i'll definitely be cautious.

 

I'll make sure I factor that in. I am still taking the amount in the tip and plan to do so until the end. Hopefully when I get to the end of the taper I will be able to drop that amount without issue. 

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