☼ Eastcoastgirl: a life free of antidepressants

[Eastcoastgirl]

My doctor wants to put me on a motility drug but I believe they are all serotonin antagonists. Is this a bad thing ?

[puthappinessfirst]

I would highly recommend against it.

[succubus76]

For what reason Kmart?

[Eastcoastgirl]

4 hours ago, succubus76 said:

For what reason Kmart?

To keep SIBO away

[Eastcoastgirl]

Hey @eymen23 ,

 

I am thinking of doing a 1:1 solution just to make it as easy as possible for me to calculate each time. I have written done below how I think it should be done but if you would be so kind as to take a minute to confirm it would be very appreciated. 

 

To make a 1mg/1ml solution for every ml of Prozac you need 3ml of water. 

 

So if your current dose is .37ml or 1.48mg, you would add 1.11ml of water (.37x3) to .37ml of Prozac. 

 

To make a 5 day solution you would take .37ml of Prozac x 5 days for 1.85ml. To this you would add 5.55ml of water.

.37x3=1.11 multiply by 5 days for 5 = 5.55ml. 

 

The total liquid would be 7.4ml and you would take your current dose of 1.48mg/ml for 5 days. 

 

Each 1ml drop in dose is .01mg.

[eymen23]

1 hour ago, KMart95 said:

To make a 1mg/1ml solution for every ml of Prozac you need 3ml of water. 

 

So if your current dose is .37ml or 1.48mg, you would add 1.11ml of water (.37x3) to .37ml of Prozac. 

 

To make a 5 day solution you would take .37ml of Prozac x 5 days for 1.85ml. To this you would add 5.55ml of water.

.37x3=1.11 multiply by 5 days for 5 = 5.55ml. 

 

The total liquid would be 7.4ml and you would take your current dose of 1.48mg/ml for 5 days. 

 

Each 1ml drop in dose is .01mg.

 

To make a 1mg/ml solution you will need 1ml of liquid for every mg of Prozac.

 

My understanding is that your current liquid has 4mg of Prozac for every ml of liquid. You are correct, this means you will need to add 3ml of water for every 1ml of the current liquid, so that we end up with 4ml of liquid for each 4mg of Prozac. Which is of course equal to 1mg/ml. 

 

Your numbers are again correct, in that you will need to take (0.37 x 4) 1.48ml of the new liquid solution per day. Meaning each 5 day batch will be (1.48 x5) 7.4ml of total liquid, (0.37 x 3 x 5) 5.55ml of which will be water.

 

You might want to round things up, as by using exact figures of liquid to a decimal place, you will likely end up short after losing small amounts via the diluting and mixing process. Perhaps it would be easier to use (0.4ml x 5) 2ml of current liquid, with (0.4 x 3 x 5) 6ml of water, making 8ml of total new liquid? That way even if you lose a small amount of liquid, you’ll still have 5 days worth. 

 

The key is that the current liquid ml is mixed with 3x more ml of water.

[Eastcoastgirl]

Thanks so much ! I was thinking the same thing. I don't want to fall short. I appreciate you looking at it for me. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by eymen23
Removed quote

[eymen23]

No problem. How are you doing now more generally?

[Eastcoastgirl]

35 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

No problem. How are you doing now more generally?

I am doing a lot better than I was. Physically I have been feeling pretty rough. I will have a few days where I am able to do lots and then I end up crashing and feeling like I have the flu. The only times where I feel really bad and the withdrawal kicks back up is during my period. I am just doing my best to try and reduce stress despite the situation so my nervous system can keep healing. October is going to be a busy month with lots to do so i'm hoping that will be good for me. 

[eymen23]

28 minutes ago, KMart95 said:

October is going to be a busy month with lots to do so i'm hoping that will be good for me. 

 

I hope you are able to cope ok during October. Remember to practice self-case and please be careful in respect of tapering. 

 

Did you start taking a serotonin antagonist?

[Eastcoastgirl]

7 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

 

I hope you are able to cope ok during October. Remember to practice self-case and please be careful in respect of tapering. 

 

Did you start taking a serotonin antagonist?

Thank you, I am hoping so. Fatigue is a bear so I have to take it easy. I will ! I'll be tapering very slow by 5% per month. My mom is going to help me. I would like to start in November but it all depends on how I feel. 

 

No I didn't. My doc & my ND were looking for something I could take to keep SIBO away so I don't have to keep treating it but unfortunately we have not found anything that will be safe. I'm drinking ginger tea but it doesn't do the job. 

[eymen23]

I have seen many recommendations for oregano oil both here and other places online, to help treat SIBO. Have you experimented with this?

 

I believe it’s something you must be careful not to overdo, as it can eventually kill some of the ‘good’ bacteria further down in the gut. 

[Eastcoastgirl]

12 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

I have seen many recommendations for oregano oil both here and other places online, to help treat SIBO. Have you experimented with this?

 

I believe it’s something you must be careful not to overdo, as it can eventually kill some of the ‘good’ bacteria further down in the gut. 

Yes ! Oregano has been great but then I come to a standstill. I am at the point where i'm not sure if it is still SIBO or if I just have irritable bowels. The main reason I have never been successful coming off my SSRI in the past is bowel pain and bloating, so that's something to think about. I have had C Diff many times so i'm treadly lightly. I have just started taking Allicin but if I see no improvement after this I think I will give up for the time being and just manage with diet. I think having good gut bacteria is very important for mental health.. something I haven't had for a long time.

[Eastcoastgirl]

I am struggling desperately with the withdrawal induced PMDD. I don't know how to cope with it anymore and there's nothing I can do to stop it. I completely change as a person every 28 days and i'm scared if this keeps going on I won't make it through 😔 there all these medication options available to me and knowing that I have to suffer and hurt my family as well is becoming too much.

[Eastcoastgirl]

There is a special about benzos and withdrawal on CNN tonight with Lisa Ling. It is so nice to see the topic is finally being brought to light on television. 

[Daisygirlsk]

3 hours ago, KMart95 said:

There is a special about benzos and withdrawal on CNN tonight with Lisa Ling. It is so nice to see the topic is finally being brought to light on television. 

It was a really good show

[India]

4 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

It was a really good show

For those of us outside U.S. Please provide a link to where it can be watched?

[Eastcoastgirl]

21 hours ago, India said:

For those of us outside U.S. Please provide a link to where it can be watched?

Unfortunately I can't find it online at this time. If you search This is Life With Lisa Ling you may be able to find it posted somewhere in the next few days.

[Eastcoastgirl]

I have a really dumb question. When I make up a new batch every 5 days, do the dosages stay the same or change ? For example, do I continually add .37ml to 1.11ml of water x5 days until the end of the taper? I'm thinking yes but i'm starting next week and want to make sure I don't mess up. 

[Eastcoastgirl]

19 hours ago, KMart95 said:

I have a really dumb question. When I make up a new batch every 5 days, do the dosages stay the same or change ? For example, do I continually add .37ml to 1.11ml of water x5 days until the end of the taper? I'm thinking yes but i'm starting next week and want to make sure I don't mess up. 

@eymen23

[eymen23]

Kmart,

 

I’m not sure I completely understand the question, but I’ll answer based on my impression. Let me know if I’ve misinterpreted. 

 

There’s no need to mix 0.37ml of Prozac liquid and 1.11ml liquid x5, until the end of the taper. The key is that for every one part Prozac liquid, you add 3 parts water. 
 

As the dosage lowers, you might find it easier and more efficient (in terms of making the Prozac liquid last longer) to start mixing up smaller amounts, which reflect the dosage you need to take. 
 

So later down the the line when perhaps you’re only needing to take 0.2ml of Prozac liquid or 0.8mg of Prozac, you could mix up 5 days worth as 0.2ml Prozac liquid with 0.6ml of water x5. You only need to mix up as much Prozac liquid as you need to take your daily dose of Prozac and naturally this will reduce during your taper.

 

Does that help? 

[Eastcoastgirl]

The reason I thought I needed to dilute was because previously you had said that with my original liquid (20mg/5ml) if I was to go down 1 line on my syringe, that would be larger than a 2.5% reduction so I thought that was the reason I need to dilute, in order to get smaller percentage dose decreases. Maybe I misunderstood?

[Eastcoastgirl]

I am starting my taper tomorrow 

[eymen23]

Kmart,

 

Yes the reason for needing to dilute is correct, but the numbers provided for the purpose of making your first batches of diluted liquid, won’t need to be the same as at the end of the taper. 
 

You will need to take a 1mg/ml (or weaker) solution throughout the taper, which will require one part current Prozac liquid and three parts water, but the specific amounts you need to mix will change.

 

Does that make more sense? How are you feeling now? Have your symptoms settled down a little? 

[Eastcoastgirl]

18 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

Kmart,

 

Yes the reason for needing to dilute is correct, but the numbers provided for the purpose of making your first batches of diluted liquid, won’t need to be the same as at the end of the taper. 
 

You will need to take a 1mg/ml (or weaker) solution throughout the taper, which will require one part current Prozac liquid and three parts water, but the specific amounts you need to mix will change.

 

Does that make more sense? How are you feeling now? Have your symptoms settled down a little? 

Yes thank you ! That's what I needed to know. My symptoms have settled down. I'm having pretty bad POTS symptoms though so I am trying to treat it with lots of salt water. Overall though I think i'm ready to start very slow. I'm just going to do one cut at a time and wait until symptoms subside completely before the next. 

[Eastcoastgirl]

My alarm didn't go off this morning for some reason so I just took my regular dose. I think I am going to do what you said and just taper with my current liqued undiluted until I reach 0.2ml just to make it less work for now. Do you think I will be safe with that? The reductions will be higher than 2.5% at a time but I can hold longer. I don't know what my tolerability is but it's still below 5% so I hope that's okay. 

 

@eymen23

[eymen23]

2 hours ago, KMart95 said:

My alarm didn't go off this morning for some reason so I just took my regular dose. I think I am going to do what you said and just taper with my current liqued undiluted until I reach 0.2ml just to make it less work for now. Do you think I will be safe with that? The reductions will be higher than 2.5% at a time but I can hold longer. I don't know what my tolerability is but it's still below 5% so I hope that's okay. 

 

@eymen23

To start with the reductions will be below 3% going down one line on your current liquid. I calculated the first one at 2.7%. I would see how that goes and guage what you do next based on your symptoms 

[Eastcoastgirl]

I started this morning ! Dropped down one line. I got one of those LED light therapy boxes since i'll be tapering in the winter and i'm prone to seasonal depression. Hoping it all goes well. 

[Eastcoastgirl]

What are the chances an iron supplement will mess me up? My ferritin is low and i'm still trying to get to the bottom of my extreme fatigue. 

[Eastcoastgirl]

I have a feeling i'll have to start diluting right away. I'm on day 5 and mentally I feel fine but physically I don't feel well. Everytime I try to go to sleep I have adrenaline rushes and my heart starts racing and overall just have a sense of anxiety.

[Eastcoastgirl]

My orthostatic intolerance has gotten so bad that my doctor wants to put me on medication because i'm experiencing such low blood pressure and tachycardia that I want to sleep all the time and get bouts of weakness where I can't lift my arms or legs. I'm at a loss because the risk of taking medications in withdrawal is high but my quality of life is horrible. I leave the house for an hour and then i'm in bed for days. I have no clue what to do. I was showing signs of mild autonomic dysfunction while on Celexa but it's gotten way way worse in withdrawal and shows no sign of letting up.. so I don't know if it ever will or not. I need advice on what I should do. It's already been almost a year.

[eymen23]

Kmart,

 

How have the symptoms of fatigue and autonomic dysfunction changed in comparison with the large changes in both Celexa and Prozac dosages? At what point did these symptoms become so debilitating?

 

Have they got worse since making the 2.7% drop?

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by eymen23

[Eastcoastgirl]

@eymen23 ,

 

I first switched from Celexa to Prozac in September 2018 but didn't start to notice significant fatigue and autonomic dysfunction until January 2019. It steadily progressed from there. Each month would be worse than the month prior. But I do remember it really went downhill fast in April 2019 when the hospital put me back on the full 10mg dose of Prozac and then they told me to cold turkey off when I was having suicidal thoughts. By August of this year the symptoms have gotten disabling. When I had the really bad flare up this past week and went to the ER, the symptoms had already come on before I began the taper and I didn't notice a correlation between the two. I have tried a lot of things to manage it naturally but it seems my nervous system is really messed up and shows no signs of improvement. I have passed out and hit my head once. They plan to do a tilt table test for POTS but I don't know how I feel about taking medication for something that may be withdrawal induced. 

 

I feel like it becomes more difficult for me to find meaning in my days and move forward in the withdrawal process when I am 90% bedridden.

[eymen23]

Kmart,

 

It’s quite typical for symptoms of what we term nervous system destabilisation to appear several weeks or months after a major drug change, and that initial change from Celexa to Prozac seems to have started a serious downhill trend that has only worsened as more changes have been made over time. 
 

Especially at a lower dose of Prozac and given your negative reaction to both drug changes and supplements more recently, I would suggest that this is a continuation of symptoms caused by dramatic drug changes, that are yet to settle down. 
 

What drugs are they suggesting you take to help these symptoms? I’m most concerned about your plans to taper, as I’m worried this will only make things worse. 

[Eastcoastgirl]

@eymen23 ,

 

I feel the same. The more large changes I made or things I tried in an attempt to get better, the worse it got. I know autonomic issues are a very common thing in withdrawal and despite how bad it was all this time, it didn't really concern me too much until I fainted and got to the point recently where I can't be upright very long at all. That & of course the very low blood pressure.

 

My doctor is suggesting midodrine or florinef, which I believe are drugs to increase blood pressure. He said medication to lower my heart rate would not be good because they'd lower blood pressure more. Originally he was going to wait to see what the cardiologist would recommend but wait time here is nearly a year.

[eymen23]

Eastcoastgirl,

 

I’ve just had a quick look into both drugs and they appear to work in different ways.

 

Midodrine appears to work on the same receptors as noradrenaline and some side effects (albeit listed as uncommon or rare) include agitation, sleeplessness, anxiety etc. 
 

Florinef is a steroid which again can have side effects such as sleeplessness and mood changes. Many members have found steroids to be difficult to tolerate whilst in withdrawal. 
 

It seems you are stuck between a rock and a hard place Kmart. My intuition tells me that these drugs could complicate matters in the long term, as the real underlying issue seems to be nervous system dysfunction caused by multiple drug change. However, I can understand that if you are having symptoms as severe as fainting you may need medical treatment. 
 

My suggestion would be that whether you choose to start taking a drug to help your symptoms or not, you probably need a significant hold on your Prozac dose, because it’s changes in your antidepressant that appear to be at the heart of this. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Karma
Name update