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hi Ladybug, how close to bedtime do you take it? Thanks!

 

I don't have a set time that I take it. I believe I read you are supposed to take it when the sun sets as that is when your melatonin naturally increases. I take it anywhere from 11pm-3am. On the times I have forgotten to take it I notice that I am less sleepy, and that's how I remember I didn't take it. And of course there are many times I take it and still can't sleep. I've basically been taking it only because I'm afraid to taper off of it.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Meletonin gets me to sleep, but the real problem is waking up at 3am and not being able to get back to sleep. 

  • Moderator Emeritus

hi Ladybug, how close to bedtime do you take it? Thanks!

 

LexAdvice, Altostrata posted some information about dose and timing in the post of this thread:

...

Studies show you don't need much melatonin to get sleep started, just .33mg. Often you can't get melatonin in smaller than 1mg tablets; half a tablet is fine to get started. These are physiological doses, the level that your body ordinarily maintains, rather than medical doses. If you get no effect with .3-.5mg, try a little more.

...

Here's how to re-establish your sleep cycle with melatonin:

- Start with .5mg melatonin for 3-4 days.

- Take at the same time, nightfall (but, given that it's summer, not later than 8 p.m.), every night.

- If needed, gradually increase by .5mg for 3-4 days at a time.

- Use the lowest effective dose.

- Try to turn lights off or keep lights low after sundown. Your bedroom should be quiet and dark. Darkness triggers natural melatonin production. Artificial lighting, including staring into the computer, can give the wrong signal to your pineal gland.

- Keep to a very regular schedule -- this is what your circadian rhythm needs.

- Do NOT take melatonin regularly at any time but nightfall or you might scramble your sleep-wake cycle.

 

Also, the video (3:20) I linked in my post (above) talks about when to take melatonin.

There's a video from a pediatric sleep specialist (included in the article) about when to take melatonin:

Understanding Melatonin: The Effect of Timing (direct youtube link)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Thank you, Scallywag!

6/2015: 10 mg Lexapro generic + 100 mg Seroquel following episode of severe insomnia.

12/15 - 2/16: self-tapered Lexapro (no Dr. supervision) too rapidly: 3 weeks at 7.5 mg, 3 weeks at 5 mg, 3 weeks at 2.5 mg then off. NO W/D SYMPTOMS.

3/16 (about two weeks after final dose): bad insomnia again. Tried to hold out. Failed.

5/1/16: Saw psych. He said relapse and put me back on 5 mg Lex + 50 mg Seroquel to be reduced as Lexapro takes effect. I now believe it was only W/D. Dr. wanted me to updose, but after finding this site I decided to stabilize at 5 mg and start tapering at a later date.

Supplements: Magnesium citrate, fish oil, probiotics (from food not from pills)

Month of 7/16: Tapered off Seroquel: 1 week 20 mg, 1 week 15 mg, 1 week 10 mg, 1 week 5 mg. No problems sleeping throughout this process. Stopped Seroquel several days ago (7/21?) and sleep has been mostly good, some bad.

Reinstated 5 mg Seroquel 7/25 and stabilized my sleep.

9/1/16: Started tapering generic escitalopram liquid: 4.5 mg  :D

6/1/17: No longer taking seroquel for sleep. Escitalopram liquid down to .9 mg  :D

6/10/17: .8 mg

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all..just wanted to share my experience. I've been drinking tart cherry juice which has naturally occurring melatonin for about 2 months since I started having sleep issues for the first time ever...due to too much stress. I started with 1 cup around 830 pm and was sleeping to from anywhere between 2-4. Then based on some internet research I added another cup in the morning. I then slept until about 5 or 6. Yay! Only issue is the intense emotional dreams. I feel pretty down when I wake up. I'm thinking I should maybe do 3/4 cup twice a day. I'm a bit nervous to try the supplement bc I'm hypersensitive but I might.

Intermittent Klonopin use February, 2014 to September, 2015

- Off of SSRIs completely since April, 2012 

- Had horrible side effects from Celexa (constant feelings of terror, insomnia) so stopped taking it after 6 weeks

- Started 20 mg of Celexa in February 2012

- Began to taper off of Zoloft in May, 2011, off Zoloft completely September, 2011

- Increased Zoloft to 75 mg October, 2010 and decreased back to 50 mg in February, 2011

- June 2009- Went on 50 mg of Zoloft

- October, 2007 - July, 2008- Celexa 20 mgs (tapered off fairly quickly)

- 2006-2007- On Effoxor for about 8 months- switched to Prozac and cold turkeyed off

- 2005- Paxil and Lamictal for a few months but stopped taking because it didn't work

- 2004- Paxil for a few months but quit taking because of increased feelings of depression

 

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Thanks Scally. That's helpful to have that information this far down in the thread. Particularly Alto's advice.

 

Celeste. I would cut down. We don't have tart cherry juice here, but it sounds good. I would persevere. I wish we did have it !

 

I came here to say , I'm having a degree of success with  Melatonin. I have tried it in the past , but for some reason it failed at the time. Fast forward  2 years and I'm finding it helpful , although somewhat of a mystery . The first few nights , I took too much - 3mg. The next couple of days , I was " zonked out " , and depressed and teary . It took a day or two to  " twig" , as to the problem ( as it does). The next night , I cut right back to 1/4 and still had the sleep but no " hangover" effect the next day. The moral of this story is  less really is more when it comes to Melatonin. I'm still finding it effective, at the lower dose. I have had terrible withdrawal insomnia for 2 years, so this is significant. I will update, when I have more time up on it .

Ali

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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I came here to say , I'm having a degree of success with  Melatonin.  The first few nights , I took too much - 3mg. The next couple of days , I was " zonked out " , and depressed and teary . It took a day or two to  " twig" , as to the problem ( as it does). The next night , I cut right back to 1/4 and still had the sleep but no " hangover" effect the next day. The moral of this story is  less really is more when it comes to Melatonin. I'm still finding it effective, at the lower dose.

 

I'm learning -- slowly !!! -- that  a good goal is to find the minimum effective dose for me with any drug, supplement, or hormone. Ali, your experience is another one I'll be adding to the personal "evidence data base" in my memory/mind. :-)

 

I had success with 10-14 days taking 250 mcg of melatonin to re-establish a "normal" sleep schedule, i.e. go to sleep before midnight instead of 5 a.m. I've  stopped taking it over the last 10 days and my new, improved, normalized sleep has remained. If I need to recalibrate in the future, I'll try it again.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Altostrata

Good to hear, scallywag. That's how it should work.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Alto did the melatonin help to retrain your brain to sleep on its own? Are you not taking it anymore? Sorry if this was said already...I didn't see it.

Intermittent Klonopin use February, 2014 to September, 2015

- Off of SSRIs completely since April, 2012 

- Had horrible side effects from Celexa (constant feelings of terror, insomnia) so stopped taking it after 6 weeks

- Started 20 mg of Celexa in February 2012

- Began to taper off of Zoloft in May, 2011, off Zoloft completely September, 2011

- Increased Zoloft to 75 mg October, 2010 and decreased back to 50 mg in February, 2011

- June 2009- Went on 50 mg of Zoloft

- October, 2007 - July, 2008- Celexa 20 mgs (tapered off fairly quickly)

- 2006-2007- On Effoxor for about 8 months- switched to Prozac and cold turkeyed off

- 2005- Paxil and Lamictal for a few months but stopped taking because it didn't work

- 2004- Paxil for a few months but quit taking because of increased feelings of depression

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
daddybuggaorange

Be careful with melatonin...too much and if taken at the wrong time can cause depression/irritability.  For me it depends on how the rest of my body is doing.  If generally well, then I can tolerate it.  But during a "wave" I'm sensitive to it along with everything else including coffee.  I started having issues sleeping the past couple of nights again, tried melatonin, and had a negative reaction including depression today, which I haven't experienced in several weeks.  

 

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-940-melatonin.aspx?activeingredientid=940

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/expert-answers/melatonin-side-effects/faq-20057874 

Started klonopin 11/7/14 at 0.5 mg

on K consistently until week prior to Christmas

on/of Klonopin and 0.5 mg Xanax until 3rd week in February

tried c/t 3rd week in february, crashed hard, ER several times

1 mg klonopin last week in February until 2nd week in March

Quit Zoloft c/t 1st week of March 2015 & started Amitriptyline

Quit amitriptyline 2nd week in March & started Cymbalta

0.5 mg cut of Klonopin 2nd week in March

0.5 to 0 mg Klonopin taper March to June 2

off Klonopin since June 2

Stopped cymbalta august 24, started zoloft august 24

Seroquel taper from 75 to 0 over 12 days, last dose September 4.

Started Compazine Aug 12,  10 mg day

Stopped compazine aug 17, bad withdrawl

Started Remeron 3.75mg 10/12/15

Off Compazine 11/2/15

Off Zoloft 11/25/2015

Off Remeron 1/2/16

Brief encounter with Buspirone 1/13/16 - 1/18/16 2 tablets, bad reaction - severe depression

Tried Colonidine 1/14/16-1/20/16 - severe depression

Only Atenolol since 1/20/16

Reinstated Remeron 15mg 3/26/16

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok I'm a bit worried after reading this thread. I've been supplementing with a rather large dose of melatonin, (5mg instant release with a further 5mg timed release, some nights double), for around 10 months now. My sleep is still all over the place, I usually sleep in three two hour blocks. I'm not noticing any major side effects from its use, but am concerned about tolerance. Is melatonin ok to CT from? or will I need to taper down from it?.

MEDS HISTORY

2004 hospitalized for acute alcohol induced psychosis and started on my psych drug merry-go-round.2004-2006 SSRI > SNRI Merry-go-round finally settled on Effexor. Also was started on Risperdal in 2004 but switched to seroquell after I had a bad reaction to it.2008. Was switched from Effexor to pristiq, Also managed to successfully Quit Seroquel Cold Turkey.Asenapine- 5mg- August 2014 ~ May 2015. Was put on for Social Anxiety, was great at first then started developing disabling side effects, did a rapid taper and so started my withdrawal nightmare...

MEDS CURRENT

Pristiq-100mg ~ Currently holding

Olanzapine- 3.75mg May 2015 ~ Currently tapering by -.06mg per week (Jan 2016, 3.5mg  ~Feb 2016 intractable insomnia updose to 3.75mg)

Quetiapine- 50mg June 2015  ~Dec 25 2015 Quit cold turkey. ~(Feb 6 2016 hit with intractable insomnia - reinstated 50mg.)

August 2016 : Became destabilised after messing around with cutting doses, trying THC oil etc, Holding on for dear life hoping to stabilise again someday.. 

Supplements Ashwaghanda,  melatonin 2mg, fish oil, Magnesium.

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How do you feel in the mornings, simack?

 

excerpt from Alto's post #1:

Large doses of melatonin do NOT aid sleep -- they might cause your oversensitive brain to wake up, instead. I found when I took more than 2mg of melatonin, I was weepy in the morning. If you get this or a paradoxical reaction (waking) or are dopey in the morning, it's a sign you're taking too much.

 

According to what I've read and conversations with doctors I trust, your body does NOT get dependent on it and does NOT compensate by reducing natural melatonin output. Of all the difficult choices available to us, melatonin is relatively safe.

 

It is important to take melatonin in accordance to the natural sleep-wake cycle, or you might train your body to a different cycle. Your adrenals also run on a sleep schedule of approximately 10 p.m. to dawn. They tend to reactivate if you stay up later, which may keep you from sleeping. If you can, get to bed by 10 p.m. and retrain your sleep cycle.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Actually first thing in the morning before sunrise is usually my best time of the day,. Once the sun Comes up it usually triggers my symptoms though. Thanks scallywag, I will try ordering a weaker dose and try with that.

MEDS HISTORY

2004 hospitalized for acute alcohol induced psychosis and started on my psych drug merry-go-round.2004-2006 SSRI > SNRI Merry-go-round finally settled on Effexor. Also was started on Risperdal in 2004 but switched to seroquell after I had a bad reaction to it.2008. Was switched from Effexor to pristiq, Also managed to successfully Quit Seroquel Cold Turkey.Asenapine- 5mg- August 2014 ~ May 2015. Was put on for Social Anxiety, was great at first then started developing disabling side effects, did a rapid taper and so started my withdrawal nightmare...

MEDS CURRENT

Pristiq-100mg ~ Currently holding

Olanzapine- 3.75mg May 2015 ~ Currently tapering by -.06mg per week (Jan 2016, 3.5mg  ~Feb 2016 intractable insomnia updose to 3.75mg)

Quetiapine- 50mg June 2015  ~Dec 25 2015 Quit cold turkey. ~(Feb 6 2016 hit with intractable insomnia - reinstated 50mg.)

August 2016 : Became destabilised after messing around with cutting doses, trying THC oil etc, Holding on for dear life hoping to stabilise again someday.. 

Supplements Ashwaghanda,  melatonin 2mg, fish oil, Magnesium.

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  • 2 months later...

 *****If you are having withdrawal symptoms, please wait until you are stable before trying any supplements. These supplements are for healing and wellness, not withdrawal.*****

 

In the book "Drug Muggers" by Suzy Cohen, she lists anti-anxiety medication, SSRIs, Tricyclic Antidepressants, and Antipsychotics (along with a lot of other drugs) as muggers of melatonin.

 

The book goes through nutrient by nutrient listing off the offending drugs. If you want to connect all your dots, you should get a copy of the book.

 

She talks about how Xanax lets you sleep because of the drug, but over time is depleting your stores of melatonin. (Maybe that is why insomnia is so terrible in withdrawal.)

 

She says that melatonin is the only supplement to use synthetically, because natural melatonin is extracted from cow's brains and some people are sensitive to the proteins or potential viruses from the animals.

 

She says that any drug that mugs B1, B3, B6, calcium and magnesium are messing with melatonin, because all those nutrients are need to be present to make melatonin. You also need to be eating enough protein to make melatonin. You can get testing done to see if you are deficient in B1, B3, B6, calcium and magnesium. This link has more information:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12812-vitamin-and-mineral-assays-testing-for-nutrition/

 

This chart says that you have to be careful with melatonin and anti-depressants. http://www.naturemad... Chart FNL.ashx 

 

This chart says anti-depressants are robbing the body of vitamin b6, which can interfere with melatonin production. http://fundamentalhealthsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DrugNutrientDepletion.pdf

 

She also talks about the relationship with b6 and melatonin. She says getting a dose of b6 with melatonin makes it work faster. She also says getting too much of one B vitamin hurts the levels of all the others, and taking a b-vitamin complex during the day is the safest way to get enough B6.

 

You need b2 to allow b6 to work. People on neuroleptics (Antipsychotics) need to know they are being robbed of b2 (see charts above) which doesn't help their b6 stores. Her suggested "drug mugger" dose of vitamin b2 would be 200-400 mg of bioavailable b2 (riboflavin-5-phosphate) per day. This would help sleep because you need b2 to make b6 work (wikipedia.)

 

This book lists all the good food sources of these individual nutrients also. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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I'm not a huge lover of Melatonin supplements, mainly because of it being a pure hormone.

 

Just personal preference though, alternatives that I like are cherries which are said to increase melatonin and lavender oil on my pillow or skin.

2009: Put on Fluoxetine (20mg) and Risperdal (0.5mg) for OCD. Dose was increased a few weeks later to 40mg Fluoxetine and 1mg Risperdal.

2011: Began experiencing Depersonalisation and Visual Snow, general loss of energy and breast growth. Was kept on 40mg Fluoxetine until Late Dec 2015. Risperdal dosage varied and was kept on 0.5mg for a long while before Nov 2015.

Early Sep 2015: Began having symptoms of extreme anxiety, psychosis and hot flushes due to mixing illegal drugs.

Late Nov 2015: Psych doc raised Risperdal to 8mg. Began having severe and hellish Akathisia. Was kept being given Diazepam to cope.

Early Dec 2015: Began seeing a new psych doc who tapered me off Risperdal over a period of a few weeks and put me onto Quetiapine.

Late Dec 2015: Quick tapered off of everything due to little guidance.

Mid March 2016: Reinstated Fluoxetine (5mg), dose was increased to 10mg a couple of weeks later. Gave me restless legs and stopped taking immediately (RLS was unbearable).

10 May 2016: Unsuccessful Fluoxetine reinstatement at 1mg. Drug free since May 2016.

 

Diet (When Able): Low carb and sugar, high fat & dark greens. medium protein and fruit. Taking 100mg magnesium, 1000mg omega 3, 0.25mg Melatonin daily,. Drinking at least one mug of chamomile a day. Weekly Light exercise. Meditating daily and practising mindfulness.

 

"Come back to square one, just the minimum bare bones. Relaxing with the present moment, relaxing with hopelessness, relaxing with death, not resisting the fact that things end, that things pass, that things have no lasting substance, that everything is changing all the time—that is the basic message." – Pema Chodron

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  • 2 months later...

Just wanted to note that I have been taking 2mg melatonin nightly for 3 years with no ill effects.

 

According to what I've read and conversations with doctors I trust, your body does NOT get dependent on it and does NOT compensate by reducing natural melatonin output.

 

I do not believe it causes physical dependency -- half-life is only a few hours -- but I intend to taper off when my sleep is stable.

 

Why would you taper if there's no dependency/withdrawal? It should be OK to just stop taking it cold turkey without problems. Or it's because you're not absolutely sure of this and afraid it *might* cause problems?

March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin

CT'd Tofranil after few months

simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008

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Tapering melatonin is about risk management. Why risk destabilizing one's CNS while on medication, or during/after tapering?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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CT'ing melatonin can destabilize the CNS?

March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin

CT'd Tofranil after few months

simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008

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Let's not deal with hypotheticals. Is this a question you have about your situation? If so, please post it in your introduction topic.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Melatonin is just a natural hormone in the pineal gland of the brain so it probably won't affect the nervous system and destabilize it, but taking it as a supplement might, I guess, since our nervous systems are sensitive to supplements in general. I just read though of some people's experiences with melatonin and one doctor said supplementing every night for awhile will make your body stop producing melatonin naturally, and someone said they took a few mgs per night for a week and stopped taking it, and it caused them insomnia for about a week. So this makes it necessary to taper

March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin

CT'd Tofranil after few months

simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008

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Does anyone know of a slow released Melatonin without vitamin b6? except the Circadin one. the Natrol brand that's time released has b6 in it. B vitamins are stimulating, so some people say it kept them awake

March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin

CT'd Tofranil after few months

simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Natural Factors has a melatonin product that is 1 mg melatonin with no other active ingredients. I've used it and found it relatively easy to cut in to quarters with a pill cutter.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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I tried melatonin years ago and had horrifying nightmares so I'm not keen to try it again

 

I was interested to see that you can get melatonin from food- that seems like the safest way to go (*see below for more info on that)

 

I found this about foods with melatonin:

 

 

http://nutritionfacts.org/2014/04/03/foods-with-natural-melatonin/

 

 

funny thing is, I've been craving oranges, bananas,and pineapple, I eat walnuts fairly often anyway but will now increase how many I eat.

So this helps me with my shopping list!

 

I guess I should get some almonds, raspberries and esp Goji berries.

I remembered dark cherries were good but Forgot that it's supposed to be the dark ones, I got the sweet ones :P

 

 

 

 

 

*as an aside, this is why most supplements scare me, esp in high doses:

My mom had lung cancer and was enrolled in a study to find out if mega doses of beta carotene would help slow the progression of cancer. There had been some tiny study done that showed that it might be helpful so they decided to go a bigger study.

The results of that study are now included in the warnings to ppl who get lung cancer, do NOT take mega doses of beta carotene, It makes things worse! (and it made her cancer worse)

however, eating lots of carrots and other foods high in beta carotene are helpful.

 

Food is medicine!

 

  • pysch med history: 1974 @ age 18 to Oct 2017 (approx 43 yrs total)
  •  Drug list: stelazine, haldol, elavil, lithium, zoloft, celexa, lexapro(doses as high as 40mgs), klonopin, ambien, seroquel(high doses), depakote, zyprexa, lamictal- plus brief trials of dozens of other psych meds over the years
  • started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. I tried to get off it several times. WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 
  •  2013 too fast taper down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs
  •  June of 2105, tapered again too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". Crashed in Sept, reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106
  • Tapered off to zero by  Oct. 2017 Doing very well
  • Nov. 2018 feel 95% healed, current age 63 
  • Jan. 2020 feel 100% healed, peaceful and content 
  • Nov. 2020, loving life ❤️ 
 
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  • 1 month later...
  • Moderator

This just in from Consumer Labs (Jan 2017):

 

A recent Canadian study found that 71% of melatonin supplements did not contain within 10% of labeled amounts of melatonin.  Certain types were more likely to be off the mark than others.  Products least likely to vary from labels were melatonin-only, particularly in the form of regular or sublingual tablets.  Tiny amounts of serotonin were found in 26% of the products, in most cases likely due to natural phytoserotonin in herbal ingredients.

 

This could explain the wide array of responses to melatonin besides the normal dose dependant on.  (our body makes/uses 0.25 mg, and the supplement manufacturers give us 3-5 mg).

 

The inclusion of trace amounts of serotonin, could certainly set people off.

 

And here is a clear case where "natural" melatonin carries more risks, because of these trace elements from plants.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • 4 weeks later...

well I got desperate and tried the 0.25mg dose of melatonin on several occasions and it didn't help.

one time I did feel a lit bit calmer, but it didn't help my sleep any

 

It seems like melatonin- and indeed most things to aid in sleep, are only good for helping you GET to sleep, not stay asleep.

I don't usually have trouble getting to sleep the first time at night (I can't nap at all during the day, I was desperate enough to try that a few times) it's the waking up and not being able to get back to sleep.

 

it wouldn't be too bad but I only sleep for 60 to 90 mins that first time which is not nearly enough.

I have no idea how much sleep I get after that, I feel like I am awake a lot more than I am asleep but I mostly avoid looking at the time because I find that either makes me anxious or depressed when I see that I really am not sleeping much at all.

 

dear lord, please tell me this gets better at some point?????

  • pysch med history: 1974 @ age 18 to Oct 2017 (approx 43 yrs total)
  •  Drug list: stelazine, haldol, elavil, lithium, zoloft, celexa, lexapro(doses as high as 40mgs), klonopin, ambien, seroquel(high doses), depakote, zyprexa, lamictal- plus brief trials of dozens of other psych meds over the years
  • started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. I tried to get off it several times. WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 
  •  2013 too fast taper down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs
  •  June of 2105, tapered again too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". Crashed in Sept, reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106
  • Tapered off to zero by  Oct. 2017 Doing very well
  • Nov. 2018 feel 95% healed, current age 63 
  • Jan. 2020 feel 100% healed, peaceful and content 
  • Nov. 2020, loving life ❤️ 
 
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  • 4 weeks later...
Sertralinsomnia

Hello Alto,

 

Do you know anything about melatonin drops? I went to a natural food store and they sell a drop formulation with 25 drops corresponding to 1 mg melatonin. I am also taking a small dose zoloft, like 0.5, 0.6 mg.

 

Also is it ok to take it only as needed, as emmergency aid, does it work?

Started zoloft 25 mg on October 2009. Started tapering May 2016 to june 2016, last week at 12,5 mg and quitCrashed 23 january 2017, severe headache and panic (never had this panic all my life) next morning.Tried to reinstate with prozac 5 mg a day on 25 January 2016, bad choice, got arrhytmias and stopped. Started propranolol 40 mg as needed on january23 - 28 Feb 2017 Tried zoloft reinstatement at 1mg didnt work, more akathisia and head pressure.

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Sert . I would think it's the same as the usual dose.( drops being the same )  Perhaps start with 0 . 25 mg and work your way up . I have found that it can help temporarily and particularly if you can stick with it for a while to establish normalcy.

 

Everyone is different but some have positive results . I found that it helped put me back on the path to sleeping . Yes - even now if I'm struggling with lack of sleep -  I go back to it . It always seems to help .

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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Sertralinsomnia

Thank you very much AlliG for the info.

 

Whats the dose you are taking? Did it work first time? How did you work up your dose for effectiveness? Also was your insomnia of the type not sleeping at night and even not wanted to sleep the next day?

 

I dont sleep at night and next day dont want to sleep at all like a zommbie.

Started zoloft 25 mg on October 2009. Started tapering May 2016 to june 2016, last week at 12,5 mg and quitCrashed 23 january 2017, severe headache and panic (never had this panic all my life) next morning.Tried to reinstate with prozac 5 mg a day on 25 January 2016, bad choice, got arrhytmias and stopped. Started propranolol 40 mg as needed on january23 - 28 Feb 2017 Tried zoloft reinstatement at 1mg didnt work, more akathisia and head pressure.

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Sertralinsomnia

Could protracted withdrawal cause melatonin deficiency?

Started zoloft 25 mg on October 2009. Started tapering May 2016 to june 2016, last week at 12,5 mg and quitCrashed 23 january 2017, severe headache and panic (never had this panic all my life) next morning.Tried to reinstate with prozac 5 mg a day on 25 January 2016, bad choice, got arrhytmias and stopped. Started propranolol 40 mg as needed on january23 - 28 Feb 2017 Tried zoloft reinstatement at 1mg didnt work, more akathisia and head pressure.

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Sert. How did you go ? I would start with maybe 5 drops initially.

 

I have tablets of 3 mg. If I can't sleep now or even feel that I might possibly have a sleepless night I take one. I originally took too much and then I cut right back down as I learned more about Melatonin. I started again at .75 mg ( quarter) originally. I went to a half and then a whole tablet eventually. Initially I was a bit tired and moody in the am- (in the beginning) but it wore off fairly quickly whereas no sleep had an ongoing ripple effect that lasted all day and the next etc. and was debilitating.

 

I probably still take more than is needed and I'm not recommending that. It just seems to work now for me now on those nights where I know I'm going to possibly have a problem sleeping. I think because I have adjusted and am a fair way into the withdrawal process, I can get away with it. I would rather do that than take too little and be awake all night. 

 

Having said that, it's best to always start low. It doesn't take much to be effective. 0.25 mg is the starting dose. With melatonin - less is more.

 

No , it didn't work at first. It took me a few years before I got any decent sleep. I tried it on and off during that time. It was unsuccessful . In the end it came together. I believe I was at the right stage. It's not a sleeping pill but it seems to help to get the normal sleep pattern back on track ( circadian rhythms etc.) but it needs to be combined with other good sleep techniques and practices as well, in my opinion.

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Moderator

A report from Swanson confirms a lot of what Alto has already shared, but I'll post it here as confirmation:

 

While the threat of a true overdose is not realistic, you can take too much melatonin… and too often. Back in 2001, researchers at MIT concluded that a sufficient dosage for melatonin falls between .3 mg and 1 mg. If you talk to your doctor, you’ll likely hear a similar recommendation, with 1 mg being a pretty standard dose to start off with until you know how your body will respond.

 

However, supplemental melatonin is available in much higher doses, tempting those who live by the “more is better” motto to take more than their body needs. With melatonin supplements, experience has taught us—and science has backed this up—that the “less is more” approach is not only appropriate, but much more effective.

Dr. Richard Wurtman, the MIT scientist whose lab first developed melatonin supplements, has always cautioned against “overdosing” on melatonin. “With some hormones, if you take too much, you can really put your body in danger,” said Dr. Wurtman. “With melatonin, you’re not in danger, but you’re also not very comfortable. It won’t kill you, but it’ll make your life pretty miserable.”

Side Effects of Too Much Melatonin:

  • Next-day drowsiness—despite what you may have heard, taking too much melatonin can result in feeling sluggish the next morning.
  • Melatonin for kids—because it is a hormone, side effects in children may be more problematic than in adults, potentially affecting puberty, disrupting menstruation or impeding natural development during adolescence.
  • Hypothermia—with the natural release of melatonin comes a natural decrease in body temperature, so going overboard can exacerbate that natural effect.
  • Pregnancy & breastfeeding—women who are pregnant or breastfeeding are not advised to use melatonin supplements because not enough is known about potential effects. However, it is known that melatonin may affect ovulation, making it harder to become pregnant.
  • Heart Disease—people suffering from diabetes or high blood pressure should consult their doctor before taking supplemental melatonin, as it can increase blood sugar in diabetics and raise blood pressure in people who take certain blood pressure medications.
  • Depression—melatonin can worsen symptoms of depression or bring about short-term feelings of depression.
  • Long-term Use—while WebMD acknowledges that melatonin “has been used safely for up to two years,” such steady, long-term use is not encouraged. Over time, your brain and body can become desensitized to both the synthetic, supplemental melatonin, as well as your naturally produced melatonin. In this case, the pill you take to help you sleep will actually start to work against you.

From <http://www.swansonvitamins.com/blog/health-news-and-opinion/melatonin-safety?url=/blog/melatonin-safety&SourceCode=INTHIRTC1&utm_source=exacttarget&utm_medium=email&rid=92355561&utm_content=newsletter-article-link&utm_campaign=INTHIRTC1>

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • 1 month later...
In Israel, women of childbearing age are not allowed to take melatonin because it affects fertility

I wonder how it's free in the world

2007-2015- zoloft 100 mg
5-8/2015 taper zoloft 12.5 mg every 2 weeks
3/2016 -11/16 lexapro 20 mg

taper lexapro every month by 30%

11/4/17-lexapro 3.5 mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Lorin, I haven't found anything as definitive as your statement. What links can you provide to back up your claim about Israel's prohibition on melatonin for pregnant women and women of childbearing age?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Lorin, I haven't found anything as definitive as your statement. What links can you provide to back up your claim about Israel's prohibition on melatonin for pregnant women and women of childbearing age?

 

____________________________________

 

Mod note:  Please see this post for translation.

____________________________________

 

 

yes in hebrew:

1.המלטונין הוא הורמון המופרש מבלוטת האצטרובל במוח. הורמון זה משפיע על מרכזי השינה במוח ועלייה ברמתו מסייעת בהשריית שינה. המלטונין מקשר בין השעון הביולוגי של הגוף לבין התאורה בסביבה: בשעות האור ההפרשה שלו מעוכבת ובשעות החשיכה הפרשת המלטונין עולה.

בזכות תכונותיו אלה מסתייעים במלטונין כדי להסדיר את שעות השינה אצל אנשים שהשעון הביולוגי שלהם אינו מתואם עם הסביבה (למשל - אנשים אחרי טיסות ארוכות או אלה מהעיוורים שאין להם כלל תפיסת אור).

 

אצל בעלי חיים המלטונין הוא סימן לחילופי העונות: בחורף רמתו גבוהה ואז הוא מדכא את פעילות איברי המין. לקראת האביב רמת המלטונין בדם יורדת ומתחילה עונת הרבייה.

 

עד עתה לא נמצאו השפעות של מלטונין על איברי המין של בני האדם. עם זאת, חוקרי המעבדה לחקר השינה בטכניון מצאו כי אצל גברים הסובלים מפיגור פתולוגי בהתפתחות המינית יש רמה גבוהה של מלטונין.

 

צוות חוקרים זה, בראשות פרופ' רפי לובושיצקי מהמרכז הרפואי העמק ומהפקולטה לרפואה בטכניון, בדק בקבוצת המחקר את ההשפעה של מתן מלטונין במינון של 3 מ"ג למשך שלושה חודשים על נוזל הזרע של נבדקים בריאים, לעומת איכות נוזל הזרע אצל אותם גברים לאחר שקיבלו פלצבו (תרופה ללא חומר פעיל). הנזק שנגרם לאיכות הזרע של חלק מהנבדקים, הן בריכוז והן בתנועתיות, הביא את החוקרים למסקנה כי שימוש ממושך במלטונין כרוך בירידה באיכות הזרע, כנראה עקב השפעה מקומית של מלטונין באשכים.

 

ממצאי המחקר הוצגו לאחרונה בכינוס השנתי החמישי של החברה הישראלית לחקר השינה. שהתקיים בפקולטה לרפואה ע"ש רפפורט בטכניון. המחקר הוצג גם בכינוס האירופי החמישי לאנדוקרינולוגיה, שנערך באיטליה.

 

השימוש במלטונין הולך ומתרחב, בעיקר בשל מיעוט תופעות הלוואי שלו: באותו כינוס הציג צוות אחר של חוקרים ממעבדת השינה וממרכז המחקר לבטיחות בעבודה והנדסת אנוש בטכניון, ממצאים של מחקר שבדק השפעה שיורית של מתן מלטונין בשעות היום על תפקודים רלוונטיים לטייסים. החוקרים מצאו כי לאחר שעתיים של שינה נעלמת השפעתי של המלטונין והוא אינו מפריע לתפקוד רגיל.

 

יותר ויותר אנשים משתמשים במלטונין לנטרול השפעת ה"ג'ט לג" ולטיפול בהפרעות שינה שונות. יש המתייחסים להורמון זה כאל מעין תרופת פלא גם למגוון מחלות שלגביהן אין הוכחה ליעילותו. בעקבות השימוש הנרחב במלטונין לתקופות ארוכות, קוראים חוקרי הטכניון לנקוט זהירות רבה כאשר שוקלים טיפול ממושך במלטונין במתבגרים ובמבוגרים צעירים.

 

מתוך: http://www.starmed.co.il/news/3137638#ixzz4idZM1ZVg 

מתוך סטארמד starmed

 

2.אין ספק שבעיות פוריות כרוכות בדרך כלל בהרבה סטרס ושמתח גבוה בטח לא תורם לכל הסיפור. גם אם הביולוגיה המדויקת של סטרס והחשיבות שלו במשוואה של הריון לא לגמרי מובנים, היום יודעים להגיד שהורמונים ומוליכים עצביים, כמו למשל קורטיזול, אפינפרין (epinephrine) מלטונין ועוד משפיעים על רמות הסטרס ועל סיכוי הכניסה להריון. ההתייחסות לטיפולי פוריות באופן שמשלב גוף ונפש צברה פופולאריות עצומה בשנים האחרונות. דיקור סיני הוא דוגמא טובה לכך. מחקרים מראים שברגע שמורידים הילוך באמצעות סדרת טיפולי דיקור, שיעורי הכניסה להריון גבוהים יותר. האם זאת הביולוגיה, או הפסיכולוגיה? העיקר שזה עובד.  

 

3.הרעיון שמצבי דחק רגשיים וגופניים עשויים להשפיע ישירות על מערכת הרבייה אושש במודלים שונים: הקרבה הנוירולוגית והאנטומית בין הנוירוטרנסמיטורים ההיפותלמיים המעורבים בבקרת דחק ופוריות עשויה להצביע על קשר הדדי בין התופעות. הסיבה לכך קשורה במורכבות האנדוקרינית: הורמוני דחק וציר ה- HPA נמצאים באינטראקציה עם הורמונים המשפיעים על הפוריות באופן ישיר כמו GnRH, פרולקטין, LH ו-FSH, כמו גם הורמונים אחרים כמו קורטיזול ומלטונין העשויים להקטין את הפוריות. אכן, לאחרונה הופיעו בספרות המחקרית הוכחות ליחסי גומלין כאלה בין המערכות. אחד הפרמטרים העיקריים לבדיקת השפעת שינויים בציר ה- HPA על מערכת הרבייה הוא שינויים בקצביות וגובה שיא ה- LH בביוץ. בבעלי חיים נמצא כי מצבי דחק נפשי גורמים לירידה ברמות ה-LH [22, 23]. מתן קורטיזול אקסוגני לכבשים, ברמות המתאימות לעליית ריכוזו בתנאים של דחק רגשי גרמה לדיכוי בעלית האסטרדיול הטרום-ביוצי ולהקטנת הגל הטרום-ביוצי של FSH ו- LH [24]. ממחקרים אלה עולה ההנחה כי דיכויו של ציר הHPG-  נובע מדיכוי ברמה היפופיזיאלית, כנראה על ידי דיכוי קוצב ה-GnRH. מחקרים שונים מראים כי בדיכוי קוצב ה-GnRH מעורב כפי הנראה CRH. מחקרים מורפולוגיים המצביעים על קשרים אנטומיים בין קצות נוירוני ה-CRH וגופי תאי ה- GnRH מהווים עדות נוספת להשפעות אפשריות בין השניים [25], כמו גם מחקרים בקופים ובמכרסמים שהראו דיכוי הפרשת GnRH על ידי מתן CRH [26, 27]. הרעיון שמצבי דחק רגשיים וגופניים עשויים להשפיע ישירות על מערכת הרבייה אושש במודלים שונים: הקרבה הנוירולוגית והאנטומית בין הנוירוטרנסמיטורים ההיפותלמיים המעורבים בבקרת דחק ופוריות עשויה להצביע על קשר הדדי בין התופעות. הסיבה לכך קשורה במורכבות האנדוקרינית: הורמוני דחק וציר ה- HPA נמצאים באינטראקציה עם הורמונים המשפיעים על הפוריות באופן ישיר כמו GnRH, פרולקטין, LH ו-FSH, כמו גם הורמונים אחרים כמו קורטיזול ומלטונין העשויים להקטין את הפוריות. אכן, לאחרונה הופיעו בספרות המחקרית הוכחות ליחסי גומלין כאלה בין המערכות. אחד הפרמטרים העיקריים לבדיקת השפעת שינויים בציר ה- HPA על מערכת הרבייה הוא שינויים בקצביות וגובה שיא ה- LH בביוץ. בבעלי חיים נמצא כי מצבי דחק נפשי גורמים לירידה ברמות ה-LH [22, 23]. מתן קורטיזול אקסוגני לכבשים, ברמות המתאימות לעליית ריכוזו בתנאים של דחק רגשי גרמה לדיכוי בעלית האסטרדיול הטרום-ביוצי ולהקטנת הגל הטרום-ביוצי של FSH ו- LH [24]. ממחקרים אלה עולה ההנחה כי דיכויו של ציר הHPG-  נובע מדיכוי ברמה היפופיזיאלית, כנראה על ידי דיכוי קוצב ה-GnRH. מחקרים שונים מראים כי בדיכוי קוצב ה-GnRH מעורב כפי הנראה CRH. מחקרים מורפולוגיים המצביעים על קשרים אנטומיים בין קצות נוירוני ה-CRH וגופי תאי ה- GnRH מהווים עדות נוספת להשפעות אפשריות בין השניים [25], כמו גם מחקרים בקופים ובמכרסמים שהראו דיכוי הפרשת GnRH על ידי מתן CRH [26, 27]. 

 

3.הקשר בין מלטונין לפוריות -ב 1961 גילה ריצ'רד וורטמן מאוניברסיטת הרווארד שאם נותנים לחולדות תמצית של בלוטת האצטרוב (ל מלטונין), חלה הקטנה משמעותית בגודל הרחם והשחלות שלהן. במקביל, נצפתה תופעה של התבגרות מוקדמת ומואצת אצל ילדים שסבלו מגידול בבלוטת האצטרובל , אשר גרם לתופעה של חסר בהורמון . 5 כמות ההורמון מלטונין קטנה באופן משמעותי בגיל ההתבגרות, כך שקיים קשר הפוך בין רמת ההורמון בדם לבין התבגרות ופוריות. היום מקובל לחשוב שהירידה בכמות המלטונין היא רק מנגנון אחד מתוך כמה מנגנונים הורמונאליים האחראים להתבגרות המינית . זה שנים רבות מקובל להאיר את לולי התרנגולות כדי להגדיל את מספר הביצים המוטלות. גם במקרה זה סבורים החוקרים שהמנגנון הקושר אור לפוריות מקורו בשינוי בהפרשת ההורמון מבלוטת האצטרובל . מחקרים שנערכו באמצע שנות ה - 90 הראו שלמלטונין בריכוז גבוה יש יכולת לעכב את הביוץ מבלי לפגוע במחזור האישה, אך ניסיונות לפתח גלולה למניעת הריון על 3 בסיס מלטונין ופרוגסטרון נכשלו

Edited by ChessieCat
added mod note

2007-2015- zoloft 100 mg
5-8/2015 taper zoloft 12.5 mg every 2 weeks
3/2016 -11/16 lexapro 20 mg

taper lexapro every month by 30%

11/4/17-lexapro 3.5 mg

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ChessieCat

Google translation of above post:

 

1. Melatonin is a hormone secreted from the pineal gland in the brain. This hormone affects the sleeping centers in the brain and its increased level helps in sleeping. Melatonin links the biological clock of the body to the surrounding light: in light hours its secretion is delayed and during dark the melatonin secretion rises.

These properties are aided by melatonin to regulate the hours of sleep in people whose biological clock is not coordinated with the environment (for example, people after long flights or those with blind people who have no light perception).

 

In animals, melatonin is a sign of seasonal change: in winter it is high and then suppresses the activity of the genitals. Towards the spring the level of melatonin in the blood decreases and the breeding season begins.

So far, no effects of melatonin have been found on human genitals. However, researchers at the Technion's Sleep Research Laboratory found that men with pathological retardation in sexual development had a high level of melatonin.

 

This team, led by Prof. Rafi Luboshitzky of the Haemek Medical Center and the Technion's Faculty of Medicine, examined the effect of 3-mg melatonin for three months on the sperm of healthy subjects compared to the quality of sperm in those men who received placebo (Drug without active substance), the damage to sperm quality of some subjects, both in concentration and motility, led to the conclusion that prolonged use of melatonin involves a decrease in semen quality, probably due to local effect of melatonin in the testicles.

 

The findings were recently presented at the fifth annual meeting of the Israeli Society for Sleep Research. Which was held at the Technion's Rappaport Faculty of Medicine and was also presented at the 5th European Symposium on Endocrinology, held in Italy.

The use of melatonin is increasing, mainly because of the paucity of side effects. At the same conference, another team of researchers from the Sleep Laboratory and the Center for Work Safety and Human Engineering at the Technion presented findings of a study that examined residual effects of melatonin during the day on flight-related functions. The researchers found that after two hours of sleep, the effect of melatonin disappears and does not interfere with normal functioning

 

More and more people are using melatonin to neutralize the effect of jet lag and to treat various sleep disorders. Some refer to this hormone as a panacea for a variety of diseases for which there is no proof of its effectiveness. Following extensive use of melatonin for long periods of time, Technion researchers are calling for great caution when considering prolonged treatment of melatonin in adolescents and young adults.

 

From: http: //www.starmed.c...8#ixzz4idZM1ZVg
From Starmed Starmed

2. There is no doubt that infertility problems usually involve a lot of stress and high stress probably does not contribute to the whole story. Even if the exact biology of stress and its importance in the equation of pregnancy are not fully understood, today we can say that hormones and neurotransmitters, such as cortisol, epinephrine, melatonin, and others, influence stress levels and the chances of getting pregnant. The treatment of fertility treatments in a way that combines body and soul has gained tremendous popularity in recent years. Acupuncture is a good example of this. Studies show that the moment you lower your gears with a series of acupuncture treatments, your pregnancy rates are higher. Is it biology or psychology? The main thing is that it works

 

3. The idea that emotional and physical states of stress may directly affect the reproductive system has been confirmed in various models: the neurological and anatomical proximity between the hypothalamic neurotransmitters involved in stress control and fertility may indicate a mutual association between the phenomena. The cause of this is associated with endocrine complexity: HPA and HPA are interacting with hormones that directly affect fertility, such as GnRH, prolactin, LH and FSH, as well as other hormones such as cortisol and melatonin that may reduce fertility. Indeed, recent research literature has shown evidence of such reciprocal relations between the systems. One of the main parameters for examining the effect of changes in the HPA axis on the reproductive system is changes in the rate and height of the LH in ovulation. In animals it was found that mental stressors cause a decrease in LH levels [22, 23].  Exogenous cortisol for sheep, at levels appropriate for increased concentration under stressful conditions, inhibited the rise of pre-ovarian estradiol and reduced prehistoric wave of FSH and LH [24]. These studies suggest that the suppression of the HPG axis results from suppression at the hypophysiological level, probably by suppressing the GnRH pacemaker. Various studies have shown that suppression of the GnRH is probably involved in CRH. Morphological studies indicating anatomical connections between the ends of CRH neurons and GnRH cell bodies are further evidence of possible effects between the two [25], as well as studies of monkeys and rodents that showed suppression of GnRH secretion by CRH [26, 27].  The idea that emotional and physical stress may directly affect the reproductive system has been confirmed in various models: the neurological and anatomical proximity between the hypothalamic neurotransmitters involved in stress control and fertility may indicate a mutual association between the phenomena. The cause of this is associated with endocrine complexity: HPA and HPA are interacting with hormones that directly affect fertility, such as GnRH, prolactin, LH and FSH, as well as other hormones such as cortisol and melatonin that may reduce fertility. Indeed, recent research literature has shown evidence of such reciprocal relations between the systems. One of the main parameters for examining the effect of changes in the HPA axis on the reproductive system is changes in the rate and height of the LH in ovulation. In animals it was found that mental stressors cause a decrease in LH levels [22, 23].  Exogenous cortisol for sheep, at levels appropriate for increased concentration under stressful conditions, inhibited the rise of pre-ovarian estradiol and reduced prehistoric wave of FSH and LH [24]. These studies suggest that the suppression of the HPG axis results from suppression at the hypophysiological level, probably by suppressing the GnRH pacemaker. Various studies have shown that suppression of the GnRH is probably involved in CRH. Morphological studies indicating anatomical connections between the ends of CRH neurons and GnRH cell bodies are further evidence of possible effects between the two [25], as well as studies of monkeys and rodents that showed suppression of GnRH secretion by CRH [26, 27].

 

3. The connection between melatonin and fertility In 1961, Richard Wortman of Harvard University discovered that if rats were given a extract of the acetrobin (melatonin), the size of their uterus and ovaries was significantly reduced. At the same time, a phenomenon of early and accelerated puberty was observed in children with pineal gland growth, which caused a deficiency of the hormone. 5 The amount of hormone melatonin decreases significantly in adolescence, so there is An inverse association between hormone level in the blood and maturation and fertility. Today it is commonly thought that the reduction in melatonin is only one of several hormonal mechanisms responsible for puberty. For many years it has been customary to light up the chickens' cages to increase the number of eggs laid. In this case too, researchers believe that the mechanism that links fertility to light is due to a change in hormone secretion from the pineal gland. Studies conducted in the mid-1990s showed that high-concentration melatonin had the ability to delay ovulation without affecting the woman's cycle, but attempts to develop a birth control pill on 3 melatonin and progesterone base failed

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Lorin, taking the references as listed in Chessie's post

  1. Refers to the observed effect of high dose melatonin (3 mg) on sperm quality -- i.e. men. 3 mg is a much higher dose than most of us take, especially at the start.
     
  2. General statement, not references to peer-reviewed scientific studies, about hormones and neurotransmitters -- nothing definitive or conclusive.
     
  3. Cites multiple studies that indicate that the endocrine system is complex and that stress affects endocrine and reproductive hormones. 
     
  4. (listed as a second "3" in ChessieCat's post above) Cites a single study conducted 56 years ago that observed a reduction in the size of uterus and ovaries of rats when the rats were given melatonin. No follow-up studies since the original are cited.
     
  5. Includes general statements about a possible relationship between
  • melatonin and puberty,
  • egg-laying cycles of chickens and pineal gland secretions (which may include melatonin)
    -- and --
  • high concentration melatonin and delayed ovulation, no indication about whether delayed ovulation = reduced fertility (lower pregnancy rate).

 

I don't know if there are studies that support the statement you've made, but this summary and the few studies it references don't.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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  • 3 months later...

Dear members

 

I have tried Circadin 2mg in France where it is on prescription, first night I slept ok, second night I could not sleep and I noticed increased confusion and anxiety. I am still on antidepressants and 3.75 zopiclone. Have other members noticed these anxiety effects of Melatonin ? The half life of the product is short so i don't understand how melatonin could cause increased anxiety ? Thanks to you all. I know a lot of people in the US use melatonin but they also may not be on antidepressants, maybe there is an interaction between these 2...

1996-1997 Elavil 150 mg, tapered slowly as per doctor's advice - 1999-2005 Prozac 20 mg then 10 mg for a long time then nothing - was not aware of SSRI withdrawal I was told there was no withdrawal with Prozac due to long half life and thus always considered rebound anxiety and insomnia as relapse- 2007 Lexapro 10 mg then 20 mg, anxiety too bad to work, then merry go round of Paxil, Effexor, Xeroquel, Risperdal, any drug on the market even drugs for bipolar ... back to Lexapro 10 mg but pooped out + tinnitus (head ringing) problem appeared in 2010 on any ssri- Anafranil 75 mg Jan-March 2017 at 75 mg better then crashed after 6 weeks (poop out)  stop CT  and switch to Brintellix 10 mg in March 2017 + Nozinan 20 mg and zopiclone 7,5 mg (these two taken for a long time). Extreme anxiety, sleeplessness, depression, panic, social anxiety, derealisation,professional disability lost home job marriage everything. I had to stop Brintellix due to a very bad reaction to it and reinstate Anafranil 75 mg then 37.5 mg since May 2017 because of severe constipation (can't go at all to the toilet) My general problem and the reason why I could never drop meds is because of ocd about sleep, severe GAD social anxiety unable to work since 2012, as a result of chronic use of anti depressants I believe my serotonin is completely depleted and my receptors are dead! Sorry the dates are confusing/ since august started slow taper by 10% every 4 weeks so current treatment is anafranil 60 mg/Nozinan 13 mg/zopiclone 3.75 mg and lexomil 1/4 as needed but try not to take it

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