Melatonin for sleep

[Starboy17]

can you take melatonin whilst tapering mirtazapine? Not sure if i need it just yet but have had some external stressors which has compromised my overall sleep.

[Recovery]

melatonin has helped me alot. i used to have such a hard time falling asleep sometimes staying awake until midnight and it would drive me insane but ever since i started taking melatonin falling asleep has been much easier. to bad it dosent help with staying asleep because i still wake up earlly. i would definetly recomend it to people who suffer from insomnia as a side effect.

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by manymoretodays
added mod note, removed mod note, and unhid

[keogh08]

Hi

 

I am 15 months out of a severe immediate adverse reaction. I only have a few strong symptoms remaining and this week experienced my first window of 4 days feeling almost completely normal.

 

What I am also experiencing now is extreme difficulty falling asleep sometimes taking many hours. Once I am asleep I do not wake up again. 

 

Would it be safe to take melatonin this far out?

 

Getting less sleep is starting to bother me in other ways mainly feeling hungover and exhausted every day.

 

Thanks 

[ccfb]

I've had no problems with melatonin.  But keep in mind everyone is different.  I take it with chamomile tea before bed.  

[ChessieCat]

If you do try anything new, only start with a small dose.  And only one thing at a time.  So therefore, if you do not already drink camomile tea you would not drink camomile tea and try melatonin at the same time.

[hennie86]

I have used melatonin for years during my taper and before it. 

I was prescribed too big dose of melatonin (by a psychiatrist) and that caused issues (5-10 mg). That was too much. I read that just a tiny dose can help sleep, big amounts of melatonin is not needed. It will just more likely cause side effects and it did it. I tapered melatonin to 0,5 mg and I have thought I have tolerated it during taper. Now I have started to think is melatonin actually causing issues in my case. I have problem  with uncomfortable sensations in my legs/akathisia/difficult to sit down because feel so restless and uncomfortable. I have read melatonin can make RLS worse in some cases and intensify RLS symptoms. (inhibits the secretion of dopamine). I have thought about stopping melatonin. I am going to taper off it because I have used it for so long. I have thought about stopping melatonin after benzo taper but I think I will start to taper both at the same time.  Hopefully insomnia doesnt get worse.

 

[Fightinghard]

@hennie86 just curious if you tapered off the melatonin?  I’ve got similar symptoms that have ramped up lately and it seems to coincide with a drop in my melatonin dose (.3 mg)2 or so weeks ago but I’m not sure.  I’m starting to wonder also if the melatonin has been contributing to my restlessness, etc. so I’m thinking i better taper off.  But with my symptoms increasing from trying to cut back (i was just eyeballing my reduction) I’m concerned. I did return my dose back to .3mg.  Anyway just curious what you did and if it helped at all.

[hennie86]

On 6/8/2021 at 7:12 PM, Fightinghard said:

@hennie86 just curious if you tapered off the melatonin?  I’ve got similar symptoms that have ramped up lately and it seems to coincide with a drop in my melatonin dose (.3 mg)2 or so weeks ago but I’m not sure.  I’m starting to wonder also if the melatonin has been contributing to my restlessness, etc. so I’m thinking i better taper off.  But with my symptoms increasing from trying to cut back (i was just eyeballing my reduction) I’m concerned. I did return my dose back to .3mg.  Anyway just curious what you did and if it helped at all.

On 6/8/2021 at 7:12 PM, Fightinghard said:

@hennie86 just curious if you tapered off the melatonin?  I’ve got similar symptoms that have ramped up lately and it seems to coincide with a drop in my melatonin dose (.3 mg)2 or so weeks ago but I’m not sure.  I’m starting to wonder also if the melatonin has been contributing to my restlessness, etc. so I’m thinking i better taper off.  But with my symptoms increasing from trying to cut back (i was just eyeballing my reduction) I’m concerned. I did return my dose back to .3mg.  Anyway just curious what you did and if it helped at all.

Hi, I have continued taking it for now

because it seems to help me fall asleep and to maintain some sort of daily rhytm. I still suffer occasionally from insomnia and dont want to take risks it getting worse now during the taper. I take  approximately 0,3 mg of it, a bit smaller dose I used to take.

 

I feel same symptoms. They are fluctuating though and there has been windows too when symptoms are better. I dont know has reducing melatonin has had any effect though. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anya324]

I am struggling hard in this wave! I typicall fall asleep without a problem  but awaken around 3hrs later. When I first wake up I feel completely normal but only for like 5 seconds. The second I breathe or move my heartrate jump dramatically (like 140) and then I spend the next 15-20mins trying to clam it down. I don’t necessarily FEEL anxious at this point. Just the palpitations. I eventually get it to a point where I can fall asleep again. Sometimes it’s for two hours sometimes it’s for 20 minutes. I proceed to do this for the rest of the night until around 6 AM when I just throw in the towel. Then when I get up my heart rate kind of goes down to where it should be, and my anxiety kicks up.
 

This is slightly different from when I was first in withdrawal. I’ve actually been in a window for four weeks until I started having bladder pain and was diagnosed interstitial cystitis. This caused me to freak-the-hell-out with worry. 

I think this was a normal response but being in withdrawal has left me with zero ability to cope with stressful situations.

 

Anyway, I got to a specialist yesterday that is WONDERFUL and gave me something specific for the pain that helped immediately and we have a care plan moving forward. I was so relieved and thought for sure that since the stressor was gone that I’d finally sleep through the night. Or at least not wake up the same as I have been for the past couple weeks. 
 

NOPE

 

The heart palpitations have been my

constant complaint throughout this entire ordeal. Even in a window, sleeping 5-7hrs, I wake up with a racing heart and anxiety. But that goes away very quickly once I get up and get going with my day. 

 

The only thing I can figure is that even though the stressor is better, my body still needs time to recover from all the stress hormones in my body. But if anyone has anything helpful or encouraging here, I’d love to hear it. 

[Altostrata]

You may wish to have soft music playing while you sleep. This assures your nervous system that it doesn't have to panic and wake you up.

[Anya324]

19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You may wish to have soft music playing while you sleep. This assures your nervous system that it doesn't have to panic and wake you up.

Of all the things I read, I must have missed this!!! 😊 thank you Alto! 

[Terry]

On 6/28/2019 at 10:25 PM, Altostrata said:

If you take too much melatonin, it can have a paradoxical effect

A functional medicine doctor I went to had me take 5 mg timed-release melatonin.  I hesitated to take that much, so found a different brand with just 1 mg TR.  After having tried both, I'd say they seem to work about the same.  I thought maybe the timed-release quality would extend their effect. 

[Altostrata]

Even 0.5mg or 0.25mg melatonin might be enough. No reason to overdo it with higher dosages, it doesn't get more effective.

[Cage190]

I don't want to be polemical but please, before taking melatonin, read this article:

 

Melatonin is equal to poison

 

Melatonin is equal to poison 2 and it's not a miracle cure (See precautions)

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 10/30/2021 at 2:22 PM, DavidPT said:

I don't want to be polemical but please, before taking melatonin, read this article:

 

Melatonin is equal to poison

 

Melatonin is equal to poison 2 and it's not a miracle cure (See precautions)

 

 

Please stop your campaign against melatonin, @Cage190 It is unreasonable.

 

Low-dose melatonin is one of the lowest-risk interventions we have for withdrawal insomnia.

[Cage190]

@Altostrata, 

 

I've never said that melatonin is useless. I only said, that melatonin it's not harmless, and users and visitors should know that isn't harmless. That's all. I'm not against melatonin, I'm only trying to say that melatonin has side effects, and even dangerous ones. This is not about being against melatonin - if someone uses melatonin and found it useful and safe I don't have anything to object - I'm only trying to warn that some people can suffer side effects (specially men, for what I've seen) and it's crucial to identify that quickly, stop taking melatonin and try something else. 

[Cage190]

I don't want to be more polemic or controversial. I just want to express my apologies here for those who have been taking melatonin with success. If someone has trouble for sleep, evidence says that melatonin can be an a sucessful outcome, but I believe that people have the right to know the truth. And that means, what evidence suggests: melatonin can help, but can be an a risky option. That's all. 

[Altostrata]

I have added the reasonable cautions about melatonin to the first post in this topic. 

[Aveju]

I took 50 mg of hydroxyzine with .5 my melatonin and now I’m wondering if that is okay?

 

I still can’t sleep. Cortisol rushes and heart palpitations kick in as soon as I reach the sleep point.

[Anya324]

9 hours ago, Aveju said:

I took 50 mg of hydroxyzine with .5 my melatonin and now I’m wondering if that is okay?

 

I still can’t sleep. Cortisol rushes and heart palpitations kick in as soon as I reach the sleep point.

If you look here https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1548-0,1303-0 you’ll see that the two meds do have a moderately ill effect together because they both have a sedative effect and can slow breathing. Beyond that, it’s safe enough and I wouldn’t hesitate to take the two together personally. 
 

I take a beta blocker almost every night because of the heart palpitations. The cortisol rushes are nearly under control but my heart is still on the mend. 

[Aveju]

@Anya324 What is your heart mending from? The palpitations? Do most doctors recommend beta blockers for palpitations? I need to know more just in case...

[Anya324]

16 hours ago, Aveju said:

@Anya324 What is your heart mending from? The palpitations? Do most doctors recommend beta blockers for palpitations? I need to know more just in case...

When I first was in wd, my heart rate was 115 resting. It was constant. I absolutely couldn’t not live like that so I basically demanded beta blockers. Once I got in with a new GP (who listened and believed me about the withdrawals) he changed me to a different beta blocker that can be taken as needed. Initial Loy I was given atenolol 25mg and then switched to metoprolol 25-50mg. 

[Crochet]

I tried taking 3mg of melatonin, but it revved up my system.  I then took 1mg and this seemed to be just fine.  I've been taking 1mg for some time now along with 400mg magnesium glycinate and 200mg of l-theanine.  I also have a fan in the background when I sleep and sounds of the ocean. This combination has helped me to secure a good amount of sleep each night.

[Sekai8894]

does anyone know about the long term use of melatonin (can we use it for months/years)? and how is your quality of sleep under melatonin? deep? light? with a lot of vivid/strange dreams? consistently drifting in and out of sleep?  

[Anya324]

Melatonin is 100% safe to use every night forever. Just start with a really small dose. Contrary to popular believe, you don’t need 10mg for it to be effective. I take 1mg and it works beautifully. I recommend starting at the beginning of this thread and read through. There’s lots of good info here. 

[Sekai8894]

@Anya324 thank you for the clarification. i tried to find some literature on the long term use of melatonin and could not find any. webmd says that "Melatonin is possibly safe when taken long-term. It's been used safely for up to 2 years." So there's that.

 

however, I experienced slight lightheadedness when using melatonin. and i'm already at a very low dose 0.5 mg, so I wonder whether I should reduce my dosage to something even lower i.e. 0.3 mg, but then I'm afraid at that dose it's not going to be effective 

 

I'm also concerned about developing tolerance. 

[Dee12h]

Nightmares/vivid dreams is a known side effect but not for everyone. I take it often & never really have them, but I’m definitely not prone to nightmares in general.

[Healingcontinues]

I have a question that I couldn’t seem to find the specific answer for in the melatonin topic here. Is this something that your body can become dependent on? Will your pineal glad stop producing its own melatonin after prolonged use? And is this something that will also have to be tapered off? I have read a lot of conflicting advice online

[Ariel]

5 hours ago, DataGuy said:

 I thought this post from Slate Star Codex on melatonin might be helpful: Melatonin: much more than you wanted to know. He is a psychiatrist by training, but I won't hold that against him. He suggests the best dose of melatonin is 0.3mg, and that it is a much more substance than people appreciate. I think he is right. Just the other day, JAMA put out this report on melatonin being consumed by children: Young Children Increasingly Ingest Melatonin, With Serious Outcomes. I think all the same cautions which apply to psych drugs should apply to melatonin. It may be a bit milder and more natural, but it can still have some pretty serious consequences. Included in the JAMA report: "Variable melatonin dosages in over-the-counter (OTC) products may contribute to serious outcomes, the CDC report authors noted. For example, a study of OTC melatonin supplements sold in Ontario, Canada, found that the melatonin content was as much as 478% higher than the label indicated in some products and could fluctuate substantially among lots."

 @DataGuy

Quoting your recent comment from @arbor's thread. 

I've had a look at the article you link to, but am currently in a wave, which means that I am too neuro-confused to make much sense of what I read, while simultaneously being sufficiently neuro-anxious to worry about it. Haha! Classic WD combo meal. 

I get that the recommendation is 0.3 mg (entirely consistent with Alto's first post in this topic).

Would you mind distilling the warning? 

The lowest dose tablet I have access to is 1 mg. I've been taking 2 mg every night for the better part of a year. I started at 1 mg and found that 2 mg works better (helps more). Is there anything I should be concerned about at this dose, 2 mg, for a prolonged period of time? That's the bit I can't figure out from the Slate Star Codex piece. What are the concerns, if any? 

Thanks for your help. 

(Posting this here in the melatonin topic as opposed to in my intro because I believe your reply might be of interest to many.)

[DataGuy]

Hi @Ariel,

 

Just working the next few days. Will respond a bit later. Sorry.

[DataGuy]

@Ariel,

 

The short summary of the blog entry is that you probably want to take around 0.3mg as a dose, since it was found to be the most effective in research, and helped minimize adverse effects. He talks a lot about how you should take melatonin for various sleep disorders which I won't summarize here (not sure how relevant it is). He also notes that it is roughly as effective as many commonly prescribed sleeping medications, with fewer adverse effects. Note that he is a psychiatrist who likes to experiment with psychotropic supplements, so he has the general lack of caution you might expect. 

 

The JAMA note suggests that melatonin can indeed have serious consequences, at least acutely, if you take too much. I think this further supports the fact that you should take as low a dose as possible. They also note that when tested, melatonin supplements had as much as 400%+ more melatonin than the label suggested, but also had things like serotonin (as a breakdown product). All of this supports a much lower dose than is typical of these products (which usually come in something like 3mg or 10mg). 

 

Given the serious outcomes in children who ingested this, plus the robust effectiveness of the supplement relative to sleep meds, I'd suggest being cautious taking it. Like most psychotropics, it should probably be used short term at the lowest dose possible. It definitely has psychotropic as well as hormonal effects. And it's important to remember that hormones are not harmless either, even if they are natural. Doctors in the 1990s began giving hormone replacement therapy to post-menopausal women on the mistaken belief it would improve their health (turns out this was based on some low quality research). When they did proper, rigorous studies of this, they found that HRT actually increased risk of various cancers, stroke, blood clots etc. (see here for a summary).

 

I think it is best to treat supplements like drugs (unless they are just food). Your body functions best when you give it enough food, water, exercise, sleep and social activity. Anything more than that will likely create an imbalance in biology and some adverse health effects. Unless you have a very particular condition (blood clots, type I diabetes, a life threatening infection), drugs and supplements are unlikely to make you better off long term unless this is clearly proven in high quality research (it almost never is). Often, doctors needs to reverse their previous recommendations because they simply didn't do strong enough research to prove it was beneficial.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by DataGuy

[Ventus]

I have a melatonin related question.  What's better the extended or the instant release.  Until recently I have been using 1mg sublingual instant release during any periods of difficulty sleeping and it helped me go to sleep within a few hours. Now that I am dealing with a more severe insomina it doesn't work. Though I still kinda feel it doing something it's not enough to put me to sleep at the moment. 

[ChessieCat]

39 minutes ago, Ventus said:

I have a melatonin related question.  What's better the extended or the instant release.  Until recently I have been using 1mg sublingual instant release during any periods of difficulty sleeping and it helped me go to sleep within a few hours. Now that I am dealing with a more severe insomina it doesn't work. Though I still kinda feel it doing something it's not enough to put me to sleep at the moment. 

 

Please read Post #1 of this topic.

[Ventus]

Thanks and cool. The recommended ones are the very ones I have on hand. Speaking of which it's time for me to take one and try to sleep