ButterflyHope: Celexa withdrawal

[ButterflyHope]

Hi,

 

I've stumbled across this site after spending months googling for help of some kind, only to find there isn't an awful lot out there, the best support seems to be from each other.

 

I am currently near the end of a citalopram taper. I say near the end but judging the journey so far, I honestly have no idea how far I have to go or how long it will take. I have been taking it for 14 years, originally put on it for social anxiety. I first tried to come off it 6 years ago where I near enough went cold turkey. The months that followed were the bleakest I had ever known but little did I know why at the time. I had moved city to live with my boyfriend and started a new job, I thought it must just be me struggling and hating the move but looking back, the utter despair and flatness was pure withdrawal hell. In the end after months and months of struggling with no let up, I relented to friends and family well meaning advice and made the trip back to the GP. There I was told to start back on 20mg citalopram- I refused to take 20mg and instead started on 10mg. I cant remember how long it took exactly to feel better but it was pretty quick. I had gone from horrendous depression to feeling absolutely fine and dandy. This should have been my first evidence that what I was experiencing was infact withdrawal, as 10mg isnt typically prescribed for severe depression, it would have to be more as per my Doctors advice. In this meeting when I expressed my desire to stay drug free, the usual analogies of a diabetic taking insulin were provided to me by the GP, or a cast on a broken leg. And that its nothing to be ashamed of. 

 

Anyway, I stayed on10mg for the next few years, bought a house, got married and got on well at work. Then I decided to try again. I reduced the 10mg pretty quickly over a couple of weeks and ended up sobbing my eyes out on a ski lift while admitting to my husband that I'd stopped the drugs. Luckily I'd packed them anyway so restarted them and hey presto I was fine again! I went from being agitated and irritable, inconsolable to fine within days- literally. A few months later I tried again. This time slightly slower but stil over weeks. I ended up going home early from work feeling horrendous and not really knowing why. The next few weeks saw me traipsing around hospitals and Doctors trying to get help for having lost my mind. I couldnt even speak, one walk in check in just asked 'is it a mental health problem?' as I stared tearfully and blankly, confused trying to finish a sentence. I went to one surgery, where I was seen by a pharmacist not a Doctor, which i didnt realise, who prescribed 40mg sertraline as this would be 'safer in pregnancy', one of the reasons I was trying to come off drugs. Thankfully I didnt cash in the prescription, I was simply trying to get a Doctors note to sign me off work while I regained my mind that I had temporarily lost. I managed to find another GP who told me to restart the 10mg citalopram and signed me off for the week. Lo and behold I was back at work after this episode functioning on all cylinders again, wondering what the hell had happened and why couldnt I just have carried on at work in the first place rather than spending my time off staring at a blank tv screen. Looking back now I understand why I would have been unable to string a sentence together. I had told the pharmacist I drive to work but couldnt stop thinking about crashing my car and didnt want to harm anyone.

 

Anyhow, after that I decided I would try one last time to come off the drug but over a year. An embarassingly long time I thought ( at the time). If I cant do it over a year then fair enough. Anyway I am now past that year and still taking 1mg. I became suicidal when I dropped from 2.5mg to 1mg, so have broken it into stages and finally down at 1mg. Although saying that I am taking 1mg but feeling horrific so I wouldnt say I am stable. I have horrendous anxiety worrying about everything, its keeping me up crying and when I finally sleep I wake up wretching with tremors all down my arms. It takes me over an hour to get dressed for work as I have to lie back down every few minutes to rest or cry or both. I cry at my desk at work and in the loos. I cry in the evening and at night. I am a crier. I cant keep it together. That together with the tremors, the anxiety about everything thats overwhelming makes me feel scared to carry on. I am terrified my life is crumbling around me as I'm not myself. I can't laugh or be with people.  I just came back from holiday and lay on the beach with tears rolling down my cheeks behind my sunglasses utterly exhausted as my friends played in the sea. I've never felt so lonely and scared. I desperately want to get off this drug now I know the truth, but I don't want to lose everything in the process. I have no idea how long I will feel like this and not entirely sure that I wont feel like this forever. People keep saying this must be the anxiety that the drugs were masking. Well if that's true then there's not a chance I will be living drug free. I cant live like this forever, it's horrific.

 

I wonder if anyone else on here has managed to come off this drug and if there really is light at the end of the tunnel 😪

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi ButterflyHope and welcome to SA,

 

What you have experienced in the past and also now are typical withdrawal symptoms.  When we take psychiatric drugs they change the brain and when we go off them too quickly the brain tries to regain homeostasis or factory settings and withdrawal symptoms can happen.  After 3 weeks of halving my dose I was unable to type.  I've been a typist for 40+ years.  Thanks to information I got from SA I took extra Pristiq and about 4 hours later I could type again and my cog fog lifted.  I have since been tapering following SA's protocol (link below) and am now down to 7mg.  I only experience mild withdrawal symptoms.  So yes, it is possible to get off these drugs.

 

The only known way to reduce withdrawal symptoms is to take a tiny bit more of the drug which your brain currently needs.  Even though you have been tapering, you've been going too quickly, which is evidenced by the withdrawal symptoms you are getting.  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Please do not go back to 2.5mg.  Because your brain will have already made same adaptation since being on 1mg going back to 2.5mg will probably be too much.  It is better to go up by a tiny amount than to take too much.  You might find that increasing your dose by 0.25mg might help take the edge off the withdrawal symptoms.  This topic explains how to get a small dose:  Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)  You will need to be patient whilst the dose kicks in.  It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  If after about 1 week you find that the symptoms are still unbearable then you could increase your dose by another 0.25mg.

 

The idea of updosing/reinstating is not to get rid of the withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a level which you can live with.  Please read Post #1 of this topic:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Stabilising is not linear:  Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please create your drug signature.  Keep it simple, just dates, drug/s, doses NO symptoms or diagnoses:

• for the last 2 years - dates, drug/s, doses
• for older than 2 years - years and drug/s

 

Helpful information:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

This is your own Intro topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

[ButterflyHope]

Thank you so much for your response @ChessieCat it's really helpful and a relief somewhat to see now that 1.5 to 1mg may have been too quick now knowing the 10% method.

 

My husband measures out the doses for me so he's going to slightly increase from 1mg and wait and see if it relieves it. Its hard to remember this isn't actually 'me'. I guess we have so many thoughts every day its hard to distiniguish my own from ones that may be caused by a withdrawal if that makes sense.

 

Also- The last couple of weeks I've been waking feeling very sick and actually being sick sometimes. I guess this can be anxiety but it seems to reduce by mid morning-lunch time. Could this be due to the half life of the drug getting less and leaving the system by the time I wake up as I take the tablet in the morning?

Therefore should I take half in the morning and half in the evening instead?

 

Thank you

[ButterflyHope]

Hi does anyone know if in the UK you can ask you Dr to prescribe Citalopram in a liquid form and have the pharmacy make up the dose you need?

 

Thank you

[ChessieCat]

Celexa can be made into a solution by dissolving tablets.

 

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

making-a-celexa-solution-yourself

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

4 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

The last couple of weeks I've been waking feeling very sick and actually being sick sometimes. I guess this can be anxiety but it seems to reduce by mid morning-lunch time. Could this be due to the half life of the drug getting less and leaving the system by the time I wake up as I take the tablet in the morning?

Therefore should I take half in the morning and half in the evening instead?

 

Citalopram has a half life of about 35 hours so that is probably not an issue.  I think it's more likely to be a withdrawal symptom.  See #35 on this list:   Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

[Caspur]

Hi ButterflyHope,

If you are in the UK, then yes it should be possible for you to get a liquid form of citilopram via your GP. The problem I've seen from others reporting is the cost. Some GPs will have one eye on their budgets. The liquid preps are expensive at £100-120 a 150ml bottle. My GP prescribed liquid venlafaxine for me with me even prompting him! That said, if there's any objections just make it clear that the NHS got you onto this drug so it has a moral obligation to help you get off it, whatever the cost!

The British National Formulary shows it is available as oral drops 40mg per ml of liquid; see link here.

https://bnf.nice.org.uk/medicinal-forms/citalopram.html

I'm sure it would be possible for the NHS to get it made up at a lower concentration which is probably what you need.

Good luck with your taper.

Caspur

[ButterflyHope]

Thank you @ChessieCat seeing it on the list as a symptom makes me feel some better.

 

@Caspur thank you- yes Im in the UK, thats good to know that its something I can ask for its getting harder to measure the dose at such a small amount.

 

I had to go to the Dr this week to get a note for work as I felt so unwell, Ive kept it up for over a year but right now its out of the question. Although we talked through the symptoms and the only option to relieve it was to increase the dose slightly- she recommended going back up to 2.5mg. I refused on the grounds that would undo months of hard work! She asked me what I wanted her to write on the note, 'stress' or 'anxiety' she asked. Neither I said- its withdrawal. She said she couldnt put that as it would be a bit misleading and signify this being side affects of a drug 🙄 So now I'm off with 'anxiety'- it coinciding with a dose drop must be a complete coincidence and nothing to do with suddenly giving me tremors and hurling every morning. I felt sorry for her, she was young and has years of this ahead of her, towing the line.  Despite everything, I realised I'd still rather be in my shoes than hers.

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

Hi Ive just ordered the book Self Help for your nerves. I'm hoping it will help with the intense anxiety I feel at the moment and learn to live with some of the symptoms like tremors and feeling sick. I have realised some of these things I'd be better off accepting may last a long time and not try and fight them. Its hard with anxious thoughts but I hope they will fade or at least decrease in intensity in time. Does anyone else have experience of this and how best to manage the intensity  of overwhelming anxiety during the withdrawal?

 

non-drug-techniques-to-cope

 

Some members find that magnesium helps to reduce anxiety.  the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

[ButterflyHope]

Thank you- the 3 ki's are really good I like them- lots of well meaning people are recommending all sorts of things. I find it hard to monitor whats caused what when Ive changed more than on thing at a time. I went and had acupuncture the other week and he gave me some herb drops. I took them for a few days then stopped as I felt awful, I was convinced the drops had harmed me somehow. However, it also coincided a week or two after dropping 1.5-1mg and having continued to feel horrendous Ive realised its the taper being too fast. We've just increased it slightly so am hoping for some relief before trying a smaller change. Its so funny even knowing what I know about the drugs, I was still putting more blame on some herbs than the ssri! 🙄

[jozeff]

Hi butterfly! Welcome.

 

I hope you are doing better and better. I find it rather sad that your doctor didn't believe it was withdrawal. They don't like that phenomenon because it's to vague. They rather believe in anxiety or depression do they can prescribe something and people feel helped when they go home. The doctor only has 10 minutes here to listen to your story, diagnose something, find medication and give you some advice on how to use it. That is actually unbelievable when you think about it.

 

So, did you try a small updose? 

 

I tapered citalopram from 25 mg to 16.5 in 85 days(0.1 mg per day) and I crashed hard. Depression, anxiety, sadness, feeling derealized, fatigue.....all very nasty.

 

Now I'm staying on 18 mg until I feel stable and then follow brass monkeys tapering method.

 

If I were you I'd make a liquid myself. I do this all the time. Although I'm a chemist and work in a laboratory I think it's very easy for everyone to make a liquid. It's very accurate also.

 

Let me know if you are willing to buy a volumetric flask and a syringe because that's all you need actually.

 

I hope you will find a nice way to taper. Slowly tapering is much much better for us. I wanted to get the meds out of my system and planned to achieve this in 6 months. This is much too fast I unfortunately discovered.

 

Take your time. You have been doing very well so far. They say: the lower the slower!!

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[Caspur]

On 9/28/2018 at 5:30 PM, ButterflyHope said:

Thank you @ChessieCat seeing it on the list as a symptom makes me feel some better.

 

@Caspur thank you- yes Im in the UK, thats good to know that its something I can ask for its getting harder to measure the dose at such a small amount.

 

I had to go to the Dr this week to get a note for work as I felt so unwell, Ive kept it up for over a year but right now its out of the question. Although we talked through the symptoms and the only option to relieve it was to increase the dose slightly- she recommended going back up to 2.5mg. I refused on the grounds that would undo months of hard work! She asked me what I wanted her to write on the note, 'stress' or 'anxiety' she asked. Neither I said- its withdrawal. She said she couldnt put that as it would be a bit misleading and signify this being side affects of a drug 🙄 So now I'm off with 'anxiety'- it coinciding with a dose drop must be a complete coincidence and nothing to do with suddenly giving me tremors and hurling every morning. I felt sorry for her, she was young and has years of this ahead of her, towing the line.  Despite everything, I realised I'd still rather be in my shoes than hers.

Hi ButterflyHope,

 

I am appalled that your doctor would not write withdrawal on your sick note - that's just wrong! Now you have been labelled with something you don't really have which I find quite odd and she said writing 'withdrawal' would be misleading. I did get three different doctors all to write mediation withdrawal on my sick notes, which I saw as a minor victory. Its just a pity the psychiatrists I saw afterwards disagreed - sickening!

 

Check out the recent media coverage of drug withdrawal in the UK. I've just added it to this site:

It does give me some hope!

 

If you use Facebook, the Withdrawal Podcast Group is very good - you may already be on there?

 

I hope your taper becomes easier for you and you are able to return to work.

Best wishes

Caspur

[ButterflyHope]

Hi @Caspur thank you I'll check out the podcast it looks good.

 

Luckily for me, I've been honest with my work about what I'm going through and warned them incase it got worse (which it has). Therefore they are supporting me through it, and although I went to get a sick note to cover myself it was more of an admin exercise. Obviously I explained that it says 'anxiety' as the Dr was reluctant to write 'withdrawal', my work shook their heads in disbelief. Of course its withdrawal they said. They each have had personal experience of someone else trying to come off these drugs so they speak my language. Plus they know me and have got eyes in their head to see whats going on, they're not fools! So I guess the Dr's ironically will be the last to know when the guidelines change.

[ButterflyHope]

Hi @jozeff, thank you for responding.

 

Well done with your taper so far, that's really good going. The lower the slower, I really like that its very reassuring and completely the opposite to what I thought at the beginning of all this which was ignorance I guess.

 

So yes- we've increased it by a tiny amount to about 1.2mg, that was only a few days ago, I have managed to sleep through the night the last couple of days and now just feel exhausted like a I have a bad flu, Ive barely moved all day or eaten anything. Its like having a virus. This is preferable to last week when I had descended into mayhem and was vomiting each morning feeling like I'd come out of my own body. I can't explain it well but when I lay down I felt like I was underneath myself and felt so agitated like I had to escape myself. I was constantly crying and couldn't sleep at all. Im going to give it a few more days and then hopefully I can hold it at this dose for a bit before using a liquid to taper down at 10%.

 

With the liquid, I have managed to get a prescription for 40mg/ml however I think we need to dilute it down so we can measure it accurately in the syringe.

 

If we make it from the tablets ourselves like I think you do can I ask a few questions:

how do you make sure it is evenly distributed? - (I want to avoid realising Ive just been drinking water!)

How do you store it? (Does it need to be in a fridge?)

How long does it last for? (Does it go 'off' at all?)

Can the tablets be diluted straight into water or do they need to be put in something else like ethanol?

 

I agree 6 months is too quick but also we don't know that initially its all trial and error to start with! This site is the first time I seem to have made some sense of it all, I first started trying to get off this in 2013 following a head injury when I was put on a tonne more prescription drugs and wanted to be completely 'clean'. Its taken me 5 years to get to this point so I guess its not a race its just about how to keep the symptoms tolerable enough to carry on, and when theyre not to have no pride in adjusting back up. I always tell myself to be rigid in my goal (ie. coming off) but flexible in my method 😀

[jozeff]

Hi butterfly,

 

I make my solution myself.

 

I dissolve a 10 mg pill in a 50 ml volumetric flask half filled with water. Dissolve the pill which takes about 3 minutes. You get a white cloudy solution.

 

Add water to fill the flask to the mark. 

 

Shake the solution by turning the flask upside down a few times.

 

Poor the solution in a small beaker. 

 

Remove a part of the solution with a syringe ( I use a professional pipette for that). 

 

Drink the rest!

 

 

If you shake the solution or pull up and push down the syringe a few time in the solution it will be perfectly homogeneous.

 

 

No need for ethanol, it dissolves perfectly in water. The white appearance is filling substances used to make the pill and to make it white and other purposes.

 

No need to store the solution for me. I use a 10 mg tablet for all my solutions. I prepare them just before I use it.

 

My insurance pays for the medication so I use a few ml and throw away the rest.

 

You can store the solution in the fridge for a couple  of days. Make sure to shake the solution before use.

 

Let me know if you have questions.

 

Example of a flask..........

 

https://www.amazon.com/Volumetric-Stopper-Premium-Borosilicate-Graduation/dp/B01FGCZUKQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1538591190&sr=8-2-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=volumetric+flask+50ml&psc=1&smid=ACTB8CBED46SR

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[ButterflyHope]

Hi @jozeff, thank you thats really helpful- I am picking up the pre made solution tomorrow from the pharmacy and then we will dilute it down and give that a go.

 

An update for me is I upped the dose from 1mg to 1.2mg several days ago, and finally today I feel slightly more normal. This is over a month from dropping from 1.5mg. The terror has subsided somewhat and I'm getting some sleep through the night, infact it's become utter exhaustion. I'm not getting the same nausea an tremors either. I'm hoping this means I'm starting to level out at this dose.

 

I'm now realising that to get off is going to take me longer than I first thought, if I follow the 10% method. Its definitely gotten harder at the lower doses so I need to be careful. At least the liquid will allow for absolute accuracy.

 

At the moment I think my worries are normal in that I'm scared for my future and how I'm going to function through the end of getting off this. I'm off work at the moment, and obviously I don't want to stay off work as at some point I will lose my job. Also that if I have to be signed off each time the Dr will be strongly urging me to up my dose. At this point I'm thinking I will have to lie and say that I am when I'm not in order for them to believe that when the drug kicks in I'll feel better. I'm trying to just take it day by day but these thoughts do cross my mind. I will just have to stay strong and trust the process, at least I have a proven process now thanks to this site! 😀

 

PS. I don't know about any of you, but I have well meaning people telling me to exercise a lot. My normal existence is full of exercise,  I run marathons, do crossfit competitions, but funnily enough right now those things have gone out the window for the time being! So today I switched it up on my mum, and in response to her advice for me to exercise I told her that if today she is mentally and physically able then she should really get round to going on that run she's been putting off. Because if I were able to today, I'd be running, so she should do it for me 😂 If you can run today, don't delay!

[brassmonkey]

" I'm having a difficult evening and grabbed onto the above as a source of hope, is this really true for anybody? At the moment I worry I will forever live in regret and anger and I really don't want to, I want to find meaning and forgiveness and in some way see this as happening for me rather than to me if that makes sense. I would just love to know if there's anybody who found the withdrawal journey gave their life a new meaning."

 

I copied this from your post on Apace1's thread so you would have a record of it here.

 

While we are going through it, it is very hard to realize that WA can be a very positive thing.  In affect we have had our personality, lives and beliefs chemically burned away from us and have to rebuild from the ground up.  Even our core beliefs have been challenged and need revisited. Because the WD process takes a long time and recovery is so slow, it gives us time to reexamine things and make changes as we go.  This is why a persons attitude is so important.  Positive attitude, positive results.  Negative attitude, negative results. The choice is ours to make. Once WD is over, living in anger and regret is a choice that we make, not a condition that is forced on us. There is such beauty in the world it is a shame to overlook it and let past experiences taint it.  The things that have happened to us up to this point are now all in the past.  Yes they can color our outlook, but they no longer control us, no matter how bad they were.  At the base level we have survived a lot of really terrible things and in doing so have gained an inner strength that few people will know.  We made it through alive and now need to make the most of our second chance by not constantly reliving the horror, but walking in the beauty around us.

[ButterflyHope]

@brassmonkey thank you for responding 😀 

 

I completely agree and this is what I strive for. I suppose while I’m going through it it’s a confusing and scary time, but I can see the strength you need to get through it is something that stays with you. In the past (with cold turkey or fast tapers) I questioned my will power, now I realise the only way out is proper tapering and time, and previous failed attempts and ‘mental health’ Issues that ensued were perhaps far more beyond my control than I knew at the time. It’s bittersweet to learn what you thought were your times of weakness were in fact your times of strength. 

[ButterflyHope]

My update for today is: 

 

ive been on 1.16mg for almost a week, up from 1mg and finally I feel some relief. The drop from 1.5mg to 1mg was beyond what I could handle really; sheer terror, losing my mind, vomiting, nausea,  bad tremors and needing it to end. 111 tried to send an ambulance, all very embarrassing but what can you do. Won’t be doing that drop again anytime soon! 

 

Anyway today is progress: 

1. no appetite is a step up from vomit in the bin (yay!) 

2. Got up at 10am instead of midday (go me!) 

3. Showered (#proud) 

4. Got liquid citalopram from pharmacy (forgot to ask about diluting it but trust hubby more anyway) 

 

All in all I’ve absolutely smashed today, at this rate I’ll be off this stuff in about.. 10 months , wait what?! ever run a marathon and  near the end been told you actually entered the ultra 🙈 

[ButterflyHope]

Slept well again and far less exhausted when I woke up. Stayed at mums last night as hubby’s friend and girlfriend came over. He said he felt guilty and he could tell them we’re busy, but I said ‘no, carry on’ life needs to continue. Equally I didn’t have the energy to pretend so said I was at a friends. In reality I was sat at my mums quietly getting through the evening and writing.

This morning I checked in to see if it was safe to come home. They weren’t leaving till lunch time so I stayed at bit longer until I knew they’d gone. This is becoming common practice, particularly hiding the truth behind what’s happening. I wonder why I don’t just come out and say what’s happening. I guess because to a large extent it’s private and not relevant for everyone to know. But also I think truthfully, the only thing worse than the issue itself is the added problem of not being believed or treated glibly with 'at least its not an opiate' etc. I don’t want to have to deal with the idea that this could be worse. I can’t imagine it being worse nor would I want to spend energy on it.

As much as I’m doing what’s best for me to get through it, it does pain me to hide the truth, or feel like I have to. It doesn’t feel right. It was easy enough last night but you can end up in all kinds of ludicrous scenarios. Blaming it on viruses, non-existent colds or just tiredness from my ever so busy life. The crying is hard to explain sometimes, I guess people think its hormonal or just me.  They think I just struggle to cope with life and that knocks my confidence more than anything.

[ButterflyHope]

Hi,

 

I have just got hold of celexa as a liquid from the Dr and plan to dilute it to the dose I need.

 

I currently take 1.16mg which I get my grounding the tablet and putting in a gelatin capsule. I take half in the morning and half in the evening at the moment. I have been on this dose for 6 days having increased from 1mg to relieve symptoms such as vomiting, nausea and tremors. I seem to be getting some relief at 1.16mg now. I plan to stay here for another week at least until I feel stable.

 

However, I need to switch to the liquid in order to make small enough reductions to complete my withdrawal. I need some advice on this;

 

-Should I measure exactly 1.16mg of the liquid to start with, so the same dose as the tablets or a greater or smaller amount? I've read that the liquid can be faster acting so might have a different affect on me.

 

-Should I also take the liquid in half doses, so morning and evening, like I'm doing with the tablets?

 

-How long should I hold at the first dose on the liquid before starting my 10% reduction method?

 

- I have a 15ml bottle of celexa which I plan to dilute. How long once I've opened the bottle will the liquid stay 'active' for?

 

I'm really grateful for any help or advice. I had a horrendous experience dropping from 1.5mg to 1mg and I don't want to risk feeling like that again. I'd rather not have to make any changes (eg. to the liquid) but we cant measure the powder accurately enough at these levels.

 

Butterfly x

-

[ChessieCat]

I've asked the other mods to assist you with your questions.

[Altostrata]

Hi, BH.

 

Why are you splitting your daily dosage?

 

A gradual transition to liquid is best. Since you are taking a split dose of Celexa in your gelatin capsules, what I would do is to take half of your daily dose in the new liquid form in the morning and continue to take the other half in your capsule form in the evening.

 

After your system gets used to the half-and-half dosing, switch the evening Celexa to liquid as well.

 

Please let us know how you are doing.

[ButterflyHope]

Hi @Altostrata, I split the dose to try and reduce morning nausea and vomiting. However I also increased the dose to 1.16mg so I don't know if its the splitting the dose or increasing it but the vomiting has now subsided, as has intense anxiety - I think the slight increase in dose has eased the symptoms and I feel much calmer. This slight increase was on the advice of @ChessieCat so thank you- I think I will hold it at 1.16mg until I feel ready to reduce. Before I found this site I probably would have ended up increasing it by too much not realising what was happening.

 

Thank you for your advice- I will make a steady switch over to the liquid before reducing it down.

[Altostrata]

Well done.

 

Since you just updosed to 1.16mg, you might want to hold on any changes, other than the transition to liquid, for at least a couple of months. Please let us know how you're doing.

[India]

Hello @ButterflyHope,I realise you are were on jozeff's forum which is why I couldn't locate you. It certainly is a lonely business despite family support, it is very difficult to understand unless you have been through it. I realise we are similar ages and both were on citalopram for roughly the same time and we both live in London. You have done amazingly with your tapering. How are things today?

[ButterflyHope]

Hi @Altostrata- thank you. Sorry I have one more question, the liquid leaflet is saying that when you change to liquid it should be 80% of the dose you take in tablet form due to it being more effective. Would you advise this? So my tablet dose is 1.16mg so my liquid dose would be 0.928mg OR should I take 1.16mg in liquid form?

 

Leaflet info below:

If you have previously taken Citalopram tablets, you will find that the dose of your medicine in mg given as drops is a bit lower than that of tablets. This is because your body more easily absorbs the drops than the tablets, so you need a lower dose to have the same effect.

The doses correspond as follows:

Tablets - 10 mg
Drops - 8 mg (4 drops)

Tablets - 20 mg
Drops - 16 mg (8 drops)

Tablets - 30 mg
Drops - 24 mg (12 drops)

Tablets - 40 mg
Drops - 32 mg (16 drops)

 

Thank you

[Altostrata]

I haven't seen that before. What is the manufacturer of your citalopram liquid? There is variation among manufacturers, too.

 

If you take half in your usual gelatin capsule and half in liquid form, you will tolerate the switch better.

 

Rather than use the drops to measure your dosage, do you have a 1mL or 0.5mL oral syringe?

[ButterflyHope]

Hi @Altostrata thank you for getting back to me- The manufacturer is Lundbeck Ltd. and its 'Cipramil Drops' . Yes I got a 1ml syringe from the Dr to make sure its more accurate than drops.

 

I think that's what I'll have to do, if I switch over in one go and the 80% doesnt equate to my tablet dose, I will end up with a 20% hit which could be problematic, given my last drop of 33% being a nightmare and I can't risk it particularly as the lower doses seem to be more sensitive.

 

The Dr has written 0.5-1 drops per day but this is not accurate enough for my taper so I will be diluting it and using the syringe.

 

 

[ButterflyHope]

Hi @India- oh wow yes I didn't realise that, its reassuring to have found someone in a similar, albeit not ideal, situation.

 

Thank you- yes I took matters into my own hands and embarked on a year long withdrawal from last May based on my own intuition that thats how long it would take. May came and went and my plan to drop to 0mg from 2.5mg proved unrealistic, so I have gone back to the drawing board. Its going to take me a fair while to get off of my current dose so I am just trying to plan my life around that and reevaulate things. I have every confidence I will be able to get off it, but I don't know how long its going to take me so I'm trying to live through it and do it slowly enough that I can function rather than have my life completely on hold. I have managed to work until the last couple of weeks where I have been signed off, my taper from 1.5mg to 1mg was too aggressive and its taken time to correct it.

 

I see you're on the liquid form? How did you find the change over from tablets? I'm planning on doing it today and am a bit nervous about the effects but I hope it wont be too different.

 

You're doing really well to have got to where you are, I know how hard it is. I think we just happen to find ourselves going through something so tough at a time before wider society is aware of it and that contributes to the loneliness and misunderstanding. I overcame a head injury a few years ago and people think thought I was so strong to have come back from it, yet this I am finding far harder. When I am struggling now, they say you've been through worse, and I say I honestly haven't.  🙄 I am trying to tell myself that while peoples understanding (including Dr's ) is obviously preferable while going though this, it isn't a requirement and it isn't going to stop me from achieving my goal.

 

How about you? Do you work now or did you work before, if so what do/did you do? I think you're really courageous to be doing this in spite of what others have told you.

[ButterflyHope]

Has anyone else had intense anxiety that when they look back on it seems a bid mad but at the time felt real?

 

I was just thinking a couple of weeks ago, I was sat in my living room with my husband and started thinking about the fact that if we were being gassed we would have no way of knowing until it was too late, so I had to open all the windows. It was bloody freezing. Then I thought at least if that's the case we won't be completely contained by it. At the time it seemed completely legit, but now I think its a bit mad. I never had thoughts like these in my life, its just not something that would even enter my head. Its so weird how in any given moment you can't differentiate whats rational from irrational during this WD process. 😪

[Gridley]

This link on neuroemotions is relevant to your experience.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14397-neuro-emotions/

[jozeff]

Hi butterfly,

 

I don't think it's very strange. You fear being gassed which is possible but not very likely.

I fear getting sick or getting a panic attack in public places where I have to sit still like cinema, audience, train, bus etc. Sometimes I fear I'm going to die within an hour. Not very likely but possible.

 

 

I think you'll have to accept that sometimes your brain has some weird sparks. Don't fight it too much my psychiatrist taught me. Don't focus too much on your own problems they told me. Easier said than done....but...

 

Think about the possibility that such an event may occur and try to see it in perspective. I know that it's near impossible when you feel that way however.

 

But still, try to focus on what you have achieved!! 

 

If your fears are too overwhelming I would talk to a professional of course. 

 

Good luck and stay calm!!

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

[India]

10 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

I have every confidence I will be able to get off it

This is a very important statement. It has a powerful effect when I read it. I think the human body responds to thought as much as the processes it is going through on a biochemical level. I like that you used your intuition and tapered slowly. It is important to carefully evaluate where you are at, you know what is right for your body, my therapist always says. I got it into my head that I could withdraw from 10mg to 0mg in one month despite having done so in January 2018 and suffering so badly ( I realise now I was so frightened because I was having memory problems, among other symptoms, but couldn't put my finger on it at the time), reinstatement at 10mg after 6weeks worked for me then. So far, it has not worked this time around which is what I was warned about on this site. It was a lack of acceptance on my part. I thought I could will myself through using mental strength. 

 

10 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

I see you're on the liquid form? How did you find the change over from tablets? I'm planning on doing it today and am a bit nervous about the effects but I hope it wont be too different.

Good luck with this. I am sure you will be fine. The first time I moved to a liquid I made a solution but didn't have the right equipment. I started to feel nauseous but I feel this was due to measuring issues. I haven't had a problem with nausea this time. My issues stem from sensitising my system in a rapid detox of the 10mg tablets and then staying off for 2.5 months before reinstating with the liquid. I am sure you are going to be fine with it. What are you fears? How is it going?

Personally, I am trying to deal with my slight phobia around the meds but I have been much less sensible than you when it comes to dosing.

2 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

Its so weird how in any given moment you can't differentiate whats rational from irrational during this WD process. 😪

Oh my god, this describes it exactly. Irrational thoughts that seem alien pop into my mind. It must be something to with the Limbic part of the brain?Everything happening in real-time. I am constantly trying to re-engage the logical part of my brain. 

 

11 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

You're doing really well to have got to where you are, I know how hard it is. I think we just happen to find ourselves going through something so tough at a time before wider society is aware of it and that contributes to the loneliness and misunderstanding. I overcame a head injury a few years ago and people think thought I was so strong to have come back from it, yet this I am finding far harder. When I am struggling now, they say you've been through worse, and I say I honestly haven't.  🙄 I am trying to tell myself that while peoples understanding (including Dr's ) is obviously preferable while going though this, it isn't a requirement and it isn't going to stop me from achieving my goal.

Yes, again, I feel you are spot on. It is a peripheral position we occupy and one that threatens dominant thinking. Therefore, we are more likely to be abjected so to speak. Denial is a powerful thing. It's funny how you can find yourself on a path you would never have chosen for yourself. I myself remember reading some articles on the dangers of antidepressants whilst I was on them and thought them to be a bit 'hysterical'. Little did I know what I was to experience.

 

11 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

Hi @India- oh wow yes I didn't realise that, its reassuring to have found someone in a similar, albeit not ideal, situation.

 

Thank you- yes I took matters into my own hands and embarked on a year long withdrawal from last May based on my own intuition that thats how long it would take. May came and went and my plan to drop to 0mg from 2.5mg proved unrealistic, so I have gone back to the drawing board. Its going to take me a fair while to get off of my current dose so I am just trying to plan my life around that and reevaulate things. I have every confidence I will be able to get off it, but I don't know how long its going to take me so I'm trying to live through it and do it slowly enough that I can function rather than have my life completely on hold. I have managed to work until the last couple of weeks where I have been signed off, my taper from 1.5mg to 1mg was too aggressive and its taken time to correct it.

 

I see you're on the liquid form? How did you find the change over from tablets? I'm planning on doing it today and am a bit nervous about the effects but I hope it wont be too different.

 

You're doing really well to have got to where you are, I know how hard it is. I think we just happen to find ourselves going through something so tough at a time before wider society is aware of it and that contributes to the loneliness and misunderstanding. I overcame a head injury a few years ago and people think thought I was so strong to have come back from it, yet this I am finding far harder. When I am struggling now, they say you've been through worse, and I say I honestly haven't.  🙄 I am trying to tell myself that while peoples understanding (including Dr's ) is obviously preferable while going though this, it isn't a requirement and it isn't going to stop me from achieving my goal.

 

How about you? Do you work now or did you work before, if so what do/did you do? I think you're really courageous to be doing this in spite of what others have told you.

I used to work. My life has been full of highs and lows ( and changes in circumstance). I have had a lot of starts and stops.Ive had quite a few breakdowns due to trauma and health issues. I haven't worked for over a year because of these health issue including chronic pain. I am trying to keep positive, but it has stolen a lot from me. I sometimes feel like a ghost of myself. It is difficult for people to understand. The hardest thing to accept is that on top of those struggles I now have this cascade of withdrawal symptoms from a drug that was supposed to aid my situation. Like many of use, I got parked on it. But I am determined to get back, to use these struggles to strenghten myself and to help others if I can. I would one day like to train as a therapist. I have profound empathy for other's pain.

Overcoming a head injury, that is truly inspiring. I would love to hear about that. Any advice on memory issues as I am sure you would be very knowleagable. Not wanting to take it away from your story and your strand. Do you in any way feel that you have utilised any of your journey from overcoming the head injury for your current situation? That is so interesting that you are finding this harder. It just goes to show. You are very courageous too. Katie Piper said that sometimes we are forced to be strong, there is no other choice.

I am thankful that there is a space where we can all be supported. 

[India]

On 10/2/2018 at 2:05 PM, ButterflyHope said:

Hi @Caspur thank you I'll check out the podcast it looks good.

 

Luckily for me, I've been honest with my work about what I'm going through and warned them incase it got worse (which it has). Therefore they are supporting me through it, and although I went to get a sick note to cover myself it was more of an admin exercise. Obviously I explained that it says 'anxiety' as the Dr was reluctant to write 'withdrawal', my work shook their heads in disbelief. Of course its withdrawal they said. They each have had personal experience of someone else trying to come off these drugs so they speak my language. Plus they know me and have got eyes in their head to see whats going on, they're not fools! So I guess the Dr's ironically will be the last to know when the guidelines change.

It's so absurd that this is the party line. Word is spreading, everyone has a story of a friend who could not get off due to severe withdrawal. We all know. Yes, a percentage of ppl do not get severe withdrawal but so many do. I think many buy into what they are told, that it's their symptoms returning even though they may never have had such symptoms in the first place. I think we can lie to ourselves, it is harder to face the truth. 

[India]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:43 PM, ButterflyHope said:

Hi @Altostrata- thank you. Sorry I have one more question, the liquid leaflet is saying that when you change to liquid it should be 80% of the dose you take in tablet form due to it being more effective. Would you advise this? So my tablet dose is 1.16mg so my liquid dose would be 0.928mg OR should I take 1.16mg in liquid form?

 

Leaflet info below:

If you have previously taken Citalopram tablets, you will find that the dose of your medicine in mg given as drops is a bit lower than that of tablets. This is because your body more easily absorbs the drops than the tablets, so you need a lower dose to have the same effect.

The doses correspond as follows:

Tablets - 10 mg
Drops - 8 mg (4 drops)

Tablets - 20 mg
Drops - 16 mg (8 drops)

Tablets - 30 mg
Drops - 24 mg (12 drops)

Tablets - 40 mg
Drops - 32 mg (16 drops)

 

Thank you

I had this on one of my citalopram oral drops (40mg/ml) leaflets too but not the other. They were different suppliers. I am using my old batch, but may have same issue when I switch to new batch, which is apparently 80%.

[India]

On 10/4/2018 at 8:56 PM, brassmonkey said:

" I'm having a difficult evening and grabbed onto the above as a source of hope, is this really true for anybody? At the moment I worry I will forever live in regret and anger and I really don't want to, I want to find meaning and forgiveness and in some way see this as happening for me rather than to me if that makes sense. I would just love to know if there's anybody who found the withdrawal journey gave their life a new meaning."

 

I copied this from your post on Apace1's thread so you would have a record of it here.

 

While we are going through it, it is very hard to realize that WA can be a very positive thing.  In affect we have had our personality, lives and beliefs chemically burned away from us and have to rebuild from the ground up.  Even our core beliefs have been challenged and need revisited. Because the WD process takes a long time and recovery is so slow, it gives us time to reexamine things and make changes as we go.  This is why a persons attitude is so important.  Positive attitude, positive results.  Negative attitude, negative results. The choice is ours to make. Once WD is over, living in anger and regret is a choice that we make, not a condition that is forced on us. There is such beauty in the world it is a shame to overlook it and let past experiences taint it.  The things that have happened to us up to this point are now all in the past.  Yes they can color our outlook, but they no longer control us, no matter how bad they were.  At the base level we have survived a lot of really terrible things and in doing so have gained an inner strength that few people will know.  We made it through alive and now need to make the most of our second chance by not constantly reliving the horror, but walking in the beauty around us.

@BrassMonkey Do you have a success story posted? It would be good to read it.