ButterflyHope: Celexa withdrawal

[brassmonkey]

Tao of the Brassmonkey

 

It's all right there.

 

[ButterflyHope]

Hi @India- Thank you for writing back to me.

 

I agree what we believe about our recovery is so important, we might as well believe we can do it there's nothing to lose in that. I think what you say about you thought you could will yourself through using mental strength is exactly what I've been doing and have come to the realisation that the drug is more powerful than I am. I don't like that fact, but its true nonetheless. So in a weird way I now have a newfound respect for the drug in as much as no amount of willpower will enable me to fight it if I have withdrawn too quickly. I have to hold my hands up to that now. I spent the last month using brutal willpower and it absolutely overpowered me. Now I understand that if I am having to fight that hard, I have to reassess my taper and 'work with' the drug rather than against it, if that makes sense. It's like befriending your enemy for a time I suppose!

 

I started the liquid this morning. I am having half the dose in liquid in the morning, and then tablet in the evening. Then I will switch to both being liquid. I seem to be fine today no effects but wouldn't necessarily feel anything yet. I was nervous really about having another episode like I just had which was due to withdrawing too rapidly. I just have to believe that this wont happen as I won't be doing another taper beyond 10% per month. I have definitely lost my confidence due to this experience though, I just don't trust what can happen to me when it goes wrong. The irony of trying to prove I'm not an anxious person is not lost on me,😂 I am literally giving Doctors ammunition to shoot me with haha. I am weirdly peaceful with being labelled with 'anxiety' at this point though- I think not being anxious enough about stopping this drug resulted in me repeatedly reducing it too quickly and kept me on the merry go round for so long. Having anxiety about both withdrawing and following Dr's advice is proving to be my ticket to freedom 😀

17 hours ago, India said:

I used to work. My life has been full of highs and lows ( and changes in circumstance). I have had a lot of starts and stops.Ive had quite a few breakdowns due to trauma and health issues. I haven't worked for over a year because of these health issue including chronic pain. I am trying to keep positive, but it has stolen a lot from me. I sometimes feel like a ghost of myself. It is difficult for people to understand. The hardest thing to accept is that on top of those struggles I now have this cascade of withdrawal symptoms from a drug that was supposed to aid my situation. Like many of use, I got parked on it. But I am determined to get back, to use these struggles to strenghten myself and to help others if I can. I would one day like to train as a therapist. I have profound empathy for other's pain.

I really respect your determination- its so difficult to untangle whats us and whats the drug, let alone for anyone to believe us. I agree, pain and struggle can be turned into great sources of inspiration and hope for others. I know going through this, all I've wanted is to connect with others in it or through it, and it's because it brings hope.

 

Yes its interesting you ask that about the head injury as I hadn't really thought about it. I actually think the main parallel I would draw is the sense of 'missing out' on life while you go through it. I remember feeling like I was missing so much while I was recovering and over the months felt like it was taking a lifetime. When I did return to my normal life and caught up with people, I realised that actually time passes and not an awful lot happens! People had been on holiday, changed jobs etc. but all the time I felt I was missing out in the end I realised I had undergone something monumental, that had taken me to the trenches and I had emerged from it as a more evolved person. I actually believe its tragic for someone to go through their life never really knowing their own strength, and situations like these means that won't be the case for you or me or anyone in this process. In the end I was grateful it happened for me. I hear people in success stories say similar about withdrawal, and as much as I try I can't fully believe it yet but hope one day I will.

 

I see you were put on these when you were young at 16. Do you think that affects how likely you were to question what people in authority were telling you about yourself? I was first prescribed seroxat at 17 (thank god I didnt take it), but I wonder how much of that influenced me to believe that the problem was me if you see what I mean?

 

Butterfly

 

 

[ButterflyHope]

I think I'm in a window finally 😀 Thank you @ChessieCatand @Altostrata- I am on half liquid and half tablet at 1.16mg. I will complete my switch to liquid and hold before embarking on my taper. I went to the gym today for the first time in about a month, I normally go about 6 times a week! 

 

Does anyone have any advice on work and whats best to do? I was finally signed off a couple of weeks ago due to this wave, but this is the first time I have felt unable to work during the 16months. I am an accountant and could not think straight at all to do anything and was becoming increasingly upset at work, crying at my desk feeling like I was going to break down. I know the crying is due to the withdrawal, but Im not sure if its best to go back as soon as I feel slightly normal or wait until I have had a bit of stability?

 

Butterfly

[Altostrata]

You may want to stay with half liquid and half tablet at 1.16mg for a while, to get used to it, before subtituting liquid for the other half.

 

Can you go back to work part-time, until you have confidence? You're probably able to handle it better than you realize now.

[India]

On 10/12/2018 at 1:55 PM, ButterflyHope said:

I think I'm in a window finally 😀 Thank you @ChessieCatand @Altostrata- I am on half liquid and half tablet at 1.16mg. I will complete my switch to liquid and hold before embarking on my taper. I went to the gym today for the first time in about a month, I normally go about 6 times a week! 

 

Does anyone have any advice on work and whats best to do? I was finally signed off a couple of weeks ago due to this wave, but this is the first time I have felt unable to work during the 16months. I am an accountant and could not think straight at all to do anything and was becoming increasingly upset at work, crying at my desk feeling like I was going to break down. I know the crying is due to the withdrawal, but Im not sure if its best to go back as soon as I feel slightly normal or wait until I have had a bit of stability?

 

Butterfly

Amazing news. I've had a bad few days. Will reply to previous post when I get my energy up. So pleased for your window.

[India]

On 10/11/2018 at 5:38 PM, ButterflyHope said:

I see you were put on these when you were young at 16. Do you think that affects how likely you were to question what people in authority were telling you about yourself? I was first prescribed seroxat at 17 (thank god I didnt take it), but I wonder how much of that influenced me to believe that the problem was me if you see what I mean?

Yes, I do believe I have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. Like even now there is a part of my brain that wants to believe the GPs and psychiatrists that say, you can come off it easily, that 10mg is a therapeutic dose and anything below that is null and void. But, of course, I don't. Because I know my two days of hell, in which I seriously lost my mind, 16th-18th September were off the back of a reinstatement of dose (only 2mg), and that I have never felt such a psychological state in all my life. It was as if an alien had possessed me. I was terrified, hours and hours of extreme thoughts, it was the closest I might have come to being sectioned, though thankfully my parents believe in withdrawal and keeping me away from psychiatrists. I was absolutely terrified and wouldn't wish those two days on my worst enemy. I have now read so many accounts of adverse reactions that I know this to be common, but at the time, without context, I was so frightened.

After coming through that, I felt on a very deep and profound level that something awful had been done to me, and yet it would be I who would be facing the consequences of the drugs I had chosen to ingest, and withdraw from. In this moment, previous detached philosophical discussions about the dangers of psychiatrists became real and realised. Here I was experiencing first hand the trauma that so many have experienced but I had not previously connected to on an emotional level. In those days 16th-18th it is a miracle that I didn't act on my intense suicidal ideation. I think the fact that I have experienced such intense emotional pain and trauma in my life prepared me for those days, which I can categorically say were the worst of my life, but in that moment I could understand why so many who have adverse reactions kill themselves. It's as if you are meeting with the devil himself, Dr Faustus, Dante's Inferno. The length of my withdrawal has directly correlated with the collapse in my trust in psychiatry and GP prescribing for mental health. I will still see a GP but I will never go to a psychiatrist again. They have too much power.

 

Back to your point about being influenced to believe that problem was you and your faulty brain chemistry, Joanna Moncrieff eloquently discusses this idea of the individual with an illness divorced from a sociological perspective on depression. It fits neatly with the neoliberal model of individualism. Deregulation really seems to be an issue here. Obviously, it is complex and simplistic but if there were greater gatekeepers of unbiased research, mediating bodies. I find it somewhat chilling that Kings College Medical School' and Hospital are so affiliated with the pharmaceuticals:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/diarmaid-mcdonald/big-pharma-now-helping-to-run-kings-college-hospital

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/drugs-policy-advisor-under-fire-over-links-to-pharmaceutical-company-6261736.html

The view of the individual's brain as faulty, and depression being an interior biological phenomenon has so infiltrated the collective psyche. I think socio-psychological perspectives on mental health are seen as out of vogue, a throwback to the 70s. I know Szasz's and R.D.Laing's theories in the antipsychiatry school are often refuted as idealistic and unworkable.

 

The other way I was primed into taking SSRI's was my thrist for cult 90s novels on mental health issues, propelled out of a quest to quell my young angst and emotional pain, books like "Prozac Nation" by Elizabeth Wurtzel, and "Wasted" by Marya Hornbacher, all seemed to celebrate the SSRI as a wonder-drug.

 

Can I ask what stopped you from taking Paroxetine at 17 ?

On 10/11/2018 at 5:38 PM, ButterflyHope said:

I have definitely lost my confidence due to this experience though, I just don't trust what can happen to me when it goes wrong. The irony of trying to prove I'm not an anxious person is not lost on me,😂 I am literally giving Doctors ammunition to shoot me with haha. I am weirdly peaceful with being labelled with 'anxiety' at this point though- I think not being anxious enough about stopping this drug resulted in me repeatedly reducing it too quickly and kept me on the merry go round for so long. Having anxiety about both withdrawing and following Dr's advice is proving to be my ticket to freedom 😀

Yes, I think this is an excellent way of reframing it. Plus, in the long-term you are reporting symptoms. It may assimilate in the doctor's conscious ( can't think of a better expression) but he or she may at a later date reframe this information retrospectively. The point is you can only control how your words will be perceived so much. You can think about the potentialities of what you present being read as but these intersect with the doctor's training and belief system. So at some point you have to let it go, whilst at the same time, putting your point across and your perception of your symptoms. It's a delicate balancing act. It can be liberating to let it go. Because in the past I have experienced a lot of psychosomatic issues, I think I cannot erase that potential reading from my GP but I just calmly and clearly stated that I believed this was protracted withdrawal and explained why I thought it so. I am sure one day SSRIs will be seen as Benzodiazepines are now . That is a very interesting idea, seeing anxiety as a protective mechanism. I like that. I think confidence loss has been experienced by everyone who has come to this forum. It is quite shattering to experience this. I see how you are rebuilding confidence in your posts, you are back in the gym, you are celebrating windows and you are surviving waves. That in itself can give you confidence. You are also in control of you taper ( as opposed to the GP setting the pace. You are in control of your narrative. My GP has said he will look into the FAVA research which was a surprising response. I wasn't expecting it. I want my symptoms recorded so that if this SSRI PAWS ever gets recognised, it will be on my notes.

 

On 10/11/2018 at 5:38 PM, ButterflyHope said:

Yes its interesting you ask that about the head injury as I hadn't really thought about it. I actually think the main parallel I would draw is the sense of 'missing out' on life while you go through it. I remember feeling like I was missing so much while I was recovering and over the months felt like it was taking a lifetime. When I did return to my normal life and caught up with people, I realised that actually time passes and not an awful lot happens! People had been on holiday, changed jobs etc. but all the time I felt I was missing out in the end I realised I had undergone something monumental, that had taken me to the trenches and I had emerged from it as a more evolved person. I actually believe its tragic for someone to go through their life never really knowing their own strength, and situations like these means that won't be the case for you or me or anyone in this process. In the end I was grateful it happened for me. I hear people in success stories say similar about withdrawal, and as much as I try I can't fully believe it yet but hope one day I will.

 

Beautiful and I take  much comfort from this. I absolutely identify with the missing out. At times, angry that this is costing me so much time. But strength it requires, it certainly forces you to utilise all your human strength. 

 

Have you made a decision about work? Would part-time work as Altostrata suggests? I've seen people go back to work after experiencing all sorts of trauma, grief, illness and what seems to help is a slow and gradual return. Building up so to speak. Of course, some like to throw themselves back into it. It is very personal. What does your instinct say? Everything I have read here suggests it's important to keep your nervous system calm, stabilised, to not do too much but not too little either. What's great is that your colleagues seem to understand. That is wonderful. It's so important to be validated and supported.

 

Keep updating and keep healing.

[ButterflyHope]

@Altostrata- thank you, Ive been on half and half for a week now. I seem to be ok, the nausea and vomiting has subsided, and I havent been crying just feel nervous system very sensitive to sounds and feel a bit electrical. I'm sleeping well though and the arm tremors are much less. How long would you recommend I wait until switching to full liquid? Im keen to start taking magnesium but think I should wait until Ive fully switched to liquid.

[Altostrata]

Butterfly, that's good news. I'd give the half-and-half another week at least. Let us know how you're doing.

[ButterflyHope]

@Altostrata- thank you for your advice. I can now see that I was tapering too quickly, in your experience will my nervous system recover from this? I really feel I was doing so well all year and then the last few drops under 2.5mg have really knocked me for six and Ive lost confidence. I have held it at 1.16mg as I hope that I will end up feeling completely fine at this dose, I have a fear Ive damage my nervous system by going too quickly and that it wont recover that fast now? My hope is in a couple of months to continue at 10% per month but only if I feel I have recovered enough.

[ButterflyHope]

@India

I can really relate to everything you say about the hell of the times of a serious withdrawal reaction- this has happened to me twice and I agree it puts the fear in you on top of what you are already experiencing. The fear of its potential to happen again and to have to admit you don't truly know that you would survive it. I think it also makes me think about people who have taken their lives and gain a profound understanding of what actually happens. Its as heartbreaking as it is terrifying. I've been told many times through this process that I'm brave by people in my support network. But the word brave doesn't really sit right with me. I honestly feel like lucky is a better word for me. Lucky that I have survived this and am surviving it, and lucky I have through trial and error slowly but surely found a path to fight my way out of this trap. But I feel like people who haven't survived are unlucky in as much as seeing the wrong Dr, the wrong dose, the wrong drug, the wrong advice, the wrong way of withdrawing. If you are unlucky you don't stand a chance up against this. Noone does. I try not to feel sorry for myself because I am aware how lucky I am compared to others. When I cry now I cry thinking about them, particularly children, but then also children who have lost their parents

On 10/16/2018 at 12:18 AM, India said:

The length of my withdrawal has directly correlated with the collapse in my trust in psychiatry and GP prescribing for mental health

I like this. Sad but true.

 

I didn't take paroxetine oddly because I had just started going out drinking with my friends and was enjoying it. I believed if I were to take the drug I wouldn't be able to drink at the same time and I enjoyed going out drinking and dancing. It was the only time I felt less anxious and could socialise and I didn't want to have to stop. So crazy now to think that decision may well have saved me given my experiences on citalopram.

 

I am umming and ahhing about work, Im signed off until the 29th which is the week Im meant to be on holiday. We havent booked anywhere due to this, but are thinking we may drive to the peak district and go walking. My thinking is after that I would like to go to work 3 days in the week on reduced hours, and then see how I go. My instinct says if I do that it wouldn't be long before I want to go back to normal. I think work would help get my brain going again, assist with a routine and therefore sleep routine ( I keep sleeping in- which is fine as I didn't sleep for months so I am glad of it but I think routine helps). I also like going to the gym with my friends at lunchtimes which Im lucky to do, its a big part of my identity. I was doing fitness competitions before this happened, even in May I was competing. I have now lost weight and strength and this is something I want to reverse. Obviously Im in a much better place to even be thinking this. I dont know about you but during this crisis period of the last month or so, well meaning people tell exercise will help. I know it does, but truly in the grip of a taper gone wrong I think just surviving it is all you need to do. I get a bit annoyed about it and think if someone was in the grips of a heroin withdrawal they wouldnt be told to go for a jog. I tell myself people have good intentions, and it just happens that generally people don't want to believe that a legal drug can do this. I don't want to believe it really but it doesn't change the facts. I sometimes feel my character is being judged and I find that frustrating.

 

That's good you seem to have a GP at least willing to read up on it. Its so difficult to extract aspects of our personalities that are due to the drug and that which is us. It isnt possible for us or anyone to truly do it- but I think we all know deep down even if we are disbelieved. I think we have to trust ourselves throughout this process. It will serve us well when we are through it also.

 

On 10/16/2018 at 12:18 AM, India said:

I am sure one day SSRIs will be seen as Benzodiazepines are now

Absolutely. That day will come. The medical profession will have to explain how it allowed history to repeat itself also.

My friend is a Dr, and when we were speaking she was saying how her Dad had said his blood pressure medication was affecting his memory, and she had disbelieved him. It was only when it was reported as an article in the BMJ that this has been found to be true that she realised she had made a faux pas. She then spoke about our friend who is coming off citalopram, and said how he had found benzos 'hardest'. (Despite him not having yet completed the citalopram withdrawal). I felt even in our conversation it would take the BMJ to tell her SSRI's are just as difficult for her to believe it to be the case, and realise this to be another faux pas. She was aware that drug companies fund the research so I found it interesting that she wouldn't apply a big dose of skeptism to guidelines based on this research and understand that for long term treatment their patients are always the trial. Dr's are definitely trained very much to follow guidelines not to question them.

 

Do you reflect at all on what you could have done to avoid getting into this situation in the first place? I find it really difficult as I conclude I would have had to distrust the profession to avoid it, which maybe I should have done as a child but I wasn't naturally distrusting. Or I guess a stronger sense of refusing to believe there was something wrong with me, that could be helped with medicine. I think all my actions since taking it in the first place have made sense, given the withdrawal that I didn't know was withdrawal etc. I am trying to take back control by reframing this so that I can move forwards but its really hard!

 

 

 

 

 

[ButterflyHope]

I've been getting very cold and am wondering if anyone knows if this is to do with withdrawal and if so why?

 

I constantly carry a hot water bottle with me, I'm not normally a cold person and its not the weather it feels like my body cant regulate properly.

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

I've been getting very cold and am wondering if anyone knows if this is to do with withdrawal and if so why?

 

body-temperature-dysregulation-fever-chills-shivering-too-hot-too-cold-flashes-flushes

 

From what-does-healing-from-withdrawal-syndrome-feel-like

 

 

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.

[India]

On 10/20/2018 at 7:49 PM, ButterflyHope said:

I've been getting very cold and am wondering if anyone knows if this is to do with withdrawal and if so why?

 

I constantly carry a hot water bottle with me, I'm not normally a cold person and its not the weather it feels like my body cant regulate properly.

I have had this both on and off the ssri's . It def effects homeostasis. Have read on here ppl going from hot to frozen. Whilst on the meds I had to use two duvets and hot water bottle  and ski socks and jumpers. In withdrawal I was all over place, slightly warmer for a bit. Reintroducing it has resulted in feeling that coldness again. 

 

Lots of posts on it I recall. Dysregulation of temperature. 

 

Slightly different subject but I've also had a lot of bladder problems. I believe related to meds. 

[India]

On 10/18/2018 at 6:18 PM, ButterflyHope said:

@India

I can really relate to everything you say about the hell of the times of a serious withdrawal reaction- this has happened to me twice and I agree it puts the fear in you on top of what you are already experiencing. The fear of its potential to happen again and to have to admit you don't truly know that you would survive it. I think it also makes me think about people who have taken their lives and gain a profound understanding of what actually happens. Its as heartbreaking as it is terrifying. I've been told many times through this process that I'm brave by people in my support network. But the word brave doesn't really sit right with me. I honestly feel like lucky is a better word for me. Lucky that I have survived this and am surviving it, and lucky I have through trial and error slowly but surely found a path to fight my way out of this trap. But I feel like people who haven't survived are unlucky in as much as seeing the wrong Dr, the wrong dose, the wrong drug, the wrong advice, the wrong way of withdrawing. If you are unlucky you don't stand a chance up against this. Noone does. I try not to feel sorry for myself because I am aware how lucky I am compared to others. When I cry now I cry thinking about them, particularly children, but then also children who have lost their parents

I like this. Sad but true.

 

I didn't take paroxetine oddly because I had just started going out drinking with my friends and was enjoying it. I believed if I were to take the drug I wouldn't be able to drink at the same time and I enjoyed going out drinking and dancing. It was the only time I felt less anxious and could socialise and I didn't want to have to stop. So crazy now to think that decision may well have saved me given my experiences on citalopram.

 

I am umming and ahhing about work, Im signed off until the 29th which is the week Im meant to be on holiday. We havent booked anywhere due to this, but are thinking we may drive to the peak district and go walking. My thinking is after that I would like to go to work 3 days in the week on reduced hours, and then see how I go. My instinct says if I do that it wouldn't be long before I want to go back to normal. I think work would help get my brain going again, assist with a routine and therefore sleep routine ( I keep sleeping in- which is fine as I didn't sleep for months so I am glad of it but I think routine helps). I also like going to the gym with my friends at lunchtimes which Im lucky to do, its a big part of my identity. I was doing fitness competitions before this happened, even in May I was competing. I have now lost weight and strength and this is something I want to reverse. Obviously Im in a much better place to even be thinking this. I dont know about you but during this crisis period of the last month or so, well meaning people tell exercise will help. I know it does, but truly in the grip of a taper gone wrong I think just surviving it is all you need to do. I get a bit annoyed about it and think if someone was in the grips of a heroin withdrawal they wouldnt be told to go for a jog. I tell myself people have good intentions, and it just happens that generally people don't want to believe that a legal drug can do this. I don't want to believe it really but it doesn't change the facts. I sometimes feel my character is being judged and I find that frustrating.

 

That's good you seem to have a GP at least willing to read up on it. Its so difficult to extract aspects of our personalities that are due to the drug and that which is us. It isnt possible for us or anyone to truly do it- but I think we all know deep down even if we are disbelieved. I think we have to trust ourselves throughout this process. It will serve us well when we are through it also.

 

Absolutely. That day will come. The medical profession will have to explain how it allowed history to repeat itself also.

My friend is a Dr, and when we were speaking she was saying how her Dad had said his blood pressure medication was affecting his memory, and she had disbelieved him. It was only when it was reported as an article in the BMJ that this has been found to be true that she realised she had made a faux pas. She then spoke about our friend who is coming off citalopram, and said how he had found benzos 'hardest'. (Despite him not having yet completed the citalopram withdrawal). I felt even in our conversation it would take the BMJ to tell her SSRI's are just as difficult for her to believe it to be the case, and realise this to be another faux pas. She was aware that drug companies fund the research so I found it interesting that she wouldn't apply a big dose of skeptism to guidelines based on this research and understand that for long term treatment their patients are always the trial. Dr's are definitely trained very much to follow guidelines not to question them.

 

Do you reflect at all on what you could have done to avoid getting into this situation in the first place? I find it really difficult as I conclude I would have had to distrust the profession to avoid it, which maybe I should have done as a child but I wasn't naturally distrusting. Or I guess a stronger sense of refusing to believe there was something wrong with me, that could be helped with medicine. I think all my actions since taking it in the first place have made sense, given the withdrawal that I didn't know was withdrawal etc. I am trying to take back control by reframing this so that I can move forwards but its really hard!

 

 

 

 

 

Really enjoyed reading this. I will reply very soon. 

[ButterflyHope]

@ChessieCat thank you that makes sense, explains why it isn’t linear either. Nothing a hot water bottle won’t help with 

 

@India I’m the same bladder wise, I’ve found myself needing the loo throughout the night which I never did before. 

 

I know this might be an obvious one but the last week I’ve been feeling anxious early evening, I realised I’ve been going to the cafe and drinking coffee mid Arvo and thought this may be the reason. I’ve never had a problem before with caffeine and anxiety but Is this likely to be heightened during withdrawal does anyone know? Feel like it might be better to steer clear for now 

[India]

Sorry for my lack of reply. How is everything? 

[India]

On 9/25/2018 at 11:16 PM, ChessieCat said:

Thanks to information I got from SA I took extra Pristiq and about 4 hours later I could type again and my cog fog lifted.  I have since been tapering following SA's protocol (link below) and am now down to 7mg.  I only experience mild withdrawal symptoms.  So yes, it is possible to get off these drugs.

Wondering if I should do this. Because my memory problems and cognitive deficits have not resolved on 6mg . Though I've only been on it 6 weeks. So perhaps I need more time.

[India]

On 9/25/2018 at 11:16 PM, ChessieCat said:

Thanks to information I got from SA I took extra Pristiq and about 4 hours later I could type again and my cog fog lifted.  I have since been tapering following SA's protocol (link below) and am now down to 7mg.  I only experience mild withdrawal symptoms.  So yes, it is possible to get off these drugs.

Wondering if I should do this. Because my memory problems and cognitive deficits have not resolved on 6mg . Though I've only been on it 6 weeks. So perhaps I need more time.

[India]

On 9/25/2018 at 11:16 PM, ChessieCat said:

Thanks to information I got from SA I took extra Pristiq and about 4 hours later I could type again and my cog fog lifted.  I have since been tapering following SA's protocol (link below) and am now down to 7mg.  I only experience mild withdrawal symptoms.  So yes, it is possible to get off these drugs.

Wondering if I should do this. Because my memory problems and cognitive deficits have not resolved on 6mg . Though I've only been on it 6 weeks. So perhaps I need more time.

[India]

On 9/25/2018 at 11:16 PM, ChessieCat said:

Thanks to information I got from SA I took extra Pristiq and about 4 hours later I could type again and my cog fog lifted.  I have since been tapering following SA's protocol (link below) and am now down to 7mg.  I only experience mild withdrawal symptoms.  So yes, it is possible to get off these drugs.

Wondering if I should do this. Because my memory problems and cognitive deficits have not resolved on 6mg . Though I've only been on it 6 weeks. So perhaps I need more time.

[India]

On 10/18/2018 at 6:18 PM, ButterflyHope said:

dont know about you but during this crisis period of the last month or so, well meaning people tell exercise will help. I know it does, but truly in the grip of a taper gone wrong I think just surviving it is all you need to do. I get a bit annoyed about it and think if someone was in the grips of a heroin withdrawal they wouldnt be told to go for a jog. I tell myself people have good intentions, and it just happens that generally people don't want to believe that a legal drug can do this. I don't want to believe it really but it doesn't change the facts. I sometimes feel my character is being judged and I find that frustrating.

 

@ButterflyHopeLike bad therapy, well meaning advice adds an extra dimension of stress. I often find myself bewildered by the 'prescriptions' people offer without making an attempt to understand the other person's world. At least attempt to enter their subjectivity by asking questions. I can't count how many times I've come up against the agenda of others, based on the limits of their ability to see the world beyond self. Or at least be aware that they will not have experienced the full plethora of emotional states that other's may experience. I suppose may place a value on certitude, certitude in themselves, a confidence in their reality. I think people exist on a sliding scale in how they incorporate externals beyond their understanding. For many, it's a threat to their construction of self, or its mirrors something they have abjected.

One of the hardest things has been to deal with the dualities embodied in those that are helping me. Whilst I have gratitude the support, their is a consistent oscillation between the figures closest to me, helping and then hindering me. I'm not saying it's easy for them, it must be exhausting, but it's a fact that it is hugely stressful to be dealing with reactions from others that are counterproductive. I have been a respository for other's frustrations. One 'friend' telling me I wasn't working hard enough to recover, surely an oxymoronic assertion in itself. I was quietly seething- this person being fit and well and living a charmed life. It is like telling someone with a broken leg to walk before the bone is healed. In a world of instant fixes, I think many cannot not contend with the notion that recovery cannot happen overnight. It makes me think of Century of the Self by Adam Curtis, The Freudian invasion of our cultural psyches. 

 

I think it is rare to find those that truly listen, attempt to empathise and don't impose, or at least offer considered advice if they do.

Sometimes, I have explained that I am not choosing this, it is choosing me; a forced marginalisation. I explain that dealing with such intense symptoms, day in day out, is hard and extreme on the psyche and considering that, I have achieved so much. The fact that I managed my adverse reaction and kept myself going through 3 days of hell is a miracle in itself. It is like an enforced confinement. The great psychiatric pretender...an SSRI withdrawal or adverse reaction. You are right, surviving ought to be the celebration!!!!!!!! And yes, I say this all the time. I wish it was heroin not an SSRI, I would have received an infinitely greater amount of understanding and support. Sometimes I worry that many are projecting 'psychosomatic', 'malingering' onto me when I speak of the symptoms but then I let go. It is the collective denial of many persons' lived experience that truly is a test on one's sanity. I am left with a residual sense of anger (which I am told by the well-meaning is counter-productive). Be good to hear an update. (Once again this has taken me 5 times longer than it would have taken me before this withdrawal).

There is a quote:

 

“For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.”

 

I feel saddened by the fact that there is no support group meeting up in London, that is is not run by a charity. I can't help but feel there is a benefit to keeping people a part and separate. I mean charities like MIND must know there is a huge problem. Perhaps they do not want the hassle of any pharmaceutical pressure, or litigation. Is this to do with pharmaceutical lobbyist? In a capital city, where you can find a support group for anything from gambling to shopping addictions and so on, it seems absurd that there isn't one. I also believe that writing from behind a screen can only offer you so much community. I suppose the issue is we're all so unwell from our issues that no-one has the energy to set-up something. And safety is a factor too.

 

[ButterflyHope]

I have been caught in a wave. I completed the switch to liquid 10 days ago, and about 5 days in i could feel anxiety increasing slightly and then it has escalated into almost as bad as before completely unable to sleep, beside myself in tears and intense anxiety about the future and feeling like I cant go on. I had to assume what it said on the liquid bottle was right that i only need 80% liquid compared to tablet form but it seems like this has been too much of a difference. I was on 1.2mg in tablets and then 0.987mg on liquid. I have now increased the liquid to 1.1mg to try and ease the symptoms. I haven't slept for the last few days and had to take 2mg diazepam which is my absolute final resort in a crisis and have only done on one other occasion in the 16 months.

 

Does anyone know if this dose change upwards is the right thing to do? And if so how long until I might get some relief?

 

Thank you in advance

 

Butterfly

[India]

It's so difficult to tell. What feels right for you? I've had some success with kalms and passiflora for the day. I

successfully take it with the 6mg of citalopram. I am still trying to stabilise after 6 weeks. 

So sorry you are in a wave 😔😔😔😔

[ButterflyHope]

@India thank you for replying, I seem to have come out of the woods but still bad anxiety and little appetite. Not as bad as i was, I think I will hold it here for now until I'm well and truly stable.

What is in kalms and passiflora? Im terrified to take anything else now!

[ButterflyHope]

Hi can anyone help? I switched onto liquid and feel worse than ever. I did it in two stages, but its making me very sick and intense fear. Should I just wait and hope I get used to it? I switched so i could reduce it small enough but now I'm frightened as to what to do.

[ButterflyHope]

@Altostrata please can you help me? Ive switched to liquid citalopram and feel worse than ever, im throwing up and intense anxiety. I switched in two stages but I can really feel it. Should i switch back to tablets? Im only on 1 mg so it was hard to weigh it. Im scared as to what to do now.

[jozeff]

Hi butterfly!

I'm sorry that you are feeling so bad.

So you switched to liquid...

 

Did you get your math right?

 

What was your last dose of pill form celexa?

What is the concentration in your liquid? How do you measure your volume?

 

Let's think about this because a calculation error is unnecessary and may get you into trouble.

 

Do you have the commercial liquid or do you prepare it yourself?

 

 

I fully understand your fear!

 

 

Keep your head straight, you'll get through this!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, jozeff said:

Do you have the commercial liquid or do you prepare it yourself?

 

If you are using the commercial liquid what is the concentration?

 

For example:  In the US, the liquid oral solution comes in 10 mg/5 mL (2 mg/1mL), peppermint flavor. The bottle contains 240 mL.

 

Gridley's suggestion of checking the maths etc is a good idea.

 

If you are making your own, what amount of water are you using and what dose pill are you dissolving?

 

What amount are you taking?

Edited November 9, 2018 by ChessieCat

[jozeff]

Hi butterfly,

 

How are you today?

 

Hope you feel a bit better! 

 

Sending you hugs from the Netherlands.

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[ButterflyHope]

hi @jozeff thank you for your message- i'm ok, i had to take some valium last night to get some rest i've just been relaxing today and havent been sick and have eaten a bit which is better than yesterday. trying to just survive the worst of it.

 

@jozeff and @ChessieCat the liquid is from the nhs and is a concentration of 40mg/ml  and we dilute it by putting 39ml of filtered water to 1ml of the undiluted drug to make 40ml with a strength of 1mg/ml so then i use a syringe to measure the 1ml. i keep it in the fridge and remix each month.

[Songbird]

12 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

 

@jozeff and @ChessieCat the liquid is from the nhs and is a concentration of 40mg/ml  and we dilute it by putting 39ml of filtered water to 1ml of the undiluted drug to make 40ml with a strength of 1mg/ml so then i use a syringe to measure the 1ml. i keep it in the fridge and remix each month.

 

Hi ButterflyHope, please can you clarify your dosing?

 

i.e. a.m. dose of ??ml

p.m. dose of ??ml

[jozeff]

Hi butterfly,

 

How do you measure the 1 ml undiluted drug? I mean, if you would accidentally take let's say 1.05 ml that would mean a 5 % error. This 1mg/ml solution then would contain 0.95 - 1.05 mg of active substance. 

 

Since you keep it in the fridge you'll be using this possibly incorrect dilution for a month or so.

 

I don't say you're doing it incorrect! I just want to make sure you use an accurate enough syringe.

 

If you use a 10 ml syringe it is quite hard to take exactly 1 ml of solution. Do you have a 1 ml syringe? I would definitely use one of those. I use a laboratory pipette but that is a bit overkill....

 

So, if I'm correct you take 1 ml of your 1 mg/ml solution so 1 mg of active substance.

 

How do you measure your volumes when your going to taper if I may ask?

 

Just trying to help here and I hope you will feel stable soon!!

 

Cheers

 

 

Jozeff

[ButterflyHope]

@Songbird yes I take 0.55mg both morning and evening so 1.1mg in total 

[India]

Very sorry to hear of your struggles. I had problems last year switching from tablet to the solution made from the tablets. I believe the tablets are slow relief. @jozeff do you know about this? It made me dizzy. Now I have adjusted somewhat to the 40mg/mg liquid. I have one bottle left and then I will have to make my own solution from the tablets. Will see how it goes. Still trying to stabilise on 6mg at present. 

So here is  the Kalms link

 

https://www.kalmsrange.com/

  passiflora 

http://www.fushi.co.uk/passion-flower-tincture-100ml-by-fushi-wellbeing.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI34e3wdfM3gIVzbDtCh3D7AQeEAQYAyABEgIVKPD_BwE

 

I noticed the difference when I stopped taking it. It def calms my panic and anxiety down. I think it works better than Valium for me. That's just what has worked for me.

It takes time for the  body to adjust. You will get there. I know how awful the waves can be, the  anxiety so crippling. Just think of how far you have come and how strong you have been to get this far. Really hope things settle down very soon.

 

[Altostrata]

On 10/17/2018 at 11:33 AM, Altostrata said:

Butterfly, that's good news. I'd give the half-and-half another week at least. Let us know how you're doing.

 

Butterfly, if I were you, I'd go back to part tablet and part liquid dosing at 1.2mg per day. You were doing much better on that.

 

There's no reason right now to take both doses in liquid form. When you taper, you can taper the liquid part and leave the other for later tapering.

 

Do you have to dilute your citalopram liquid? If you have a 1mL oral syringe, it has ticks for hundredths of a mL, correct? You can measure out a very small amount.

[India]

4 hours ago, India said:

Very sorry to hear of your struggles. I had problems last year switching from tablet to the solution made from the tablets. I believe the tablets are slow relief. @jozeff do you know about this? It made me dizzy. Now I have adjusted somewhat to the 40mg/mg liquid. I have one bottle left and then I will have to make my own solution from the tablets. Will see how it goes. Still trying to stabilise on 6mg at present. 

So here is  the Kalms link

 

https://www.kalmsrange.com/

  passiflora 

http://www.fushi.co.uk/passion-flower-tincture-100ml-by-fushi-wellbeing.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI34e3wdfM3gIVzbDtCh3D7AQeEAQYAyABEgIVKPD_BwE

 

I noticed the difference when I stopped taking it. It def calms my panic and anxiety down. I think it works better than Valium for me. That's just what has worked for me.

It takes time for the  body to adjust. You will get there. I know how awful the waves can be, the  anxiety so crippling. Just think of how far you have come and how strong you have been to get this far. Really hope things settle down very soon.

 

I meant slow release not relief ( autocorrect)