ButterflyHope: Celexa withdrawal

[Songbird]

On 11/1/2018 at 7:34 AM, ButterflyHope said:

I had to assume what it said on the liquid bottle was right that i only need 80% liquid compared to tablet form but it seems like this has been too much of a difference.

 

I agree, I don't think this 80% dose instruction was a good idea.  Most people here switch to liquid at the same dose.  I've actually just switched over to liquid myself and I switched at the same dose.  The drop to 80% of your dose has probably been causing problems.  As Alto suggested, returning to 1.2mg might be a good idea, and then hold there until you stabilise.

[ButterflyHope]

@Altostrata and @Songbird thank you. Im relieved to know that changing to liquid can cause of all of this tbh. Right now I am truly terrified to make anymore changes. From my husbands observations of previous hits, in about a week I should be feeling better. The last two days have brought some relief, I had to use 2.5mg of diazepam before that on a couple of occasions to get some rest. I dont like doing it but it works in the extreme times. If I can ride this out am I right in thinking that at some point my body should get used to the liquid and I can reduce from there? I cant believe the terror Ive felt since switching and I forgot I was doing some better while still on half and half.

[ChessieCat]

You might want to consider making your own liquid citalopram instead of using the pharmaceutical one.

 

Making a citalopram solution yourself

[Songbird]

You may have made too many changes in a short time.  I think you may need to spend some time holding and waiting to stabilise before making any more changes.  Let everything settle down for a while.

[ButterflyHope]

@Songbird yes it seems to be the case. I am holding at 1.1mg liquid, the anxiety is easing and haven't been sick for a few days. I wont make any reductions for a while, would you say a month or so? And then at about 3-5% a month? I'm still desperate to get off it, but am fast learning the speed paradox.

 

I have also started having night terrors where I cant breathe and my husband says he can here me gasping, can this be caused by the switch over? I still cant believe the impact this has had, its made me feel like I want to die and its scary to recover from that.

[India]

Hi butterfly! Keep holding on. I had a day today when the anxiety was so bad I too felt I couldn't stand it. I was curled up in bed and I was too scared to get up.  Sorry I can't offer more solace only that I feel your pain. It did pass slowly slowly . I had to listen to losts of positive meditations and repeat to myself i was going to get better. It took a long time to work. Read as many positive stories as you can. Can your husband massage you? I know that my mum did this and it really helps calm me down. I've been filling myself with passiflora , kalms day and night non-stop. I read some of Katie Piper's book about her acid attack. I managed to walk also for an hour. I wish I had a magic wand to make everyone's pain go away. You will stabilise. Thinking of you.

[Songbird]

2 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

I wont make any reductions for a while, would you say a month or so? And then at about 3-5% a month? I'm still desperate to get off it, but am fast learning the speed paradox.

 

I wouldn't put a timeframe on it - instead, listen to your body.  It's best to wait until very stable before making another drop.  It's likely to be at least a month, maybe several.  Don't be in a rush.

 

2 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

I have also started having night terrors where I cant breathe and my husband says he can here me gasping, can this be caused by the switch over? I still cant believe the impact this has had, its made me feel like I want to die and its scary to recover from that.

 

I think this is likely to be from the drop in dose.  Reducing to 80% of your dose is a 20% dose drop.  We normally recommend drops of no more than 10%, with holds of at least four weeks until stable. 

 

It's a good sign that the anxiety is easing and you are feeling less sick.  Have a read of these topics, there's good info in here:

why taper by 10% of my dosage?

the rule of 3KIS - keep it simple keep it slow keep it stable

 

 

 

[Carmie]

Hi ButterflyHope, 

 

I totally agree with Songbird. Please do not put a calendar on your tapering. We need to taper according to what our bodies can handle. Never taper before you stabilise, sometimes it takes a month and sometimes it can take much longer.

 

I’m sorry you are getting night terrors, that must be awful for you. We get so many horrible symptoms in withdrawals. Just remember one of these days we will eventually heal. Please don’t taper so quickly again, as Songbird said you did a 20% dose drop. Taper no more then 10% a month and even less if you can’t tolerate that and remember the holds are just as important as the tapering. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

 

 

[ButterflyHope]

@Songbird@Carmie thank you very much. I had increased the dose slightly from 0.987mg to 1.1mg on liquid after realising my error, I'm now holding it for quite some time. The last few days have seen some improvement, I wasn't sick today and I'm sleeping again.

 

@India thank you for your support. I still cant believe how bad this got. Ive started listening to meditations and hypnosis aswell. Especially when I couldn't sleep the other night, I was wide awake at 4am and put a sleep hypnosis on, I was fast asleep after about 15 minutes- it really worked. I couldn't believe it. Ive been doing that more and more. Aswell as breathing my lavendar oils. Ive read Katie Pipers books, theyre really inspiring. Ive also just bought one called 'Happy' by Derren Brown, Im finding it very comforting. Its sort of the opposite of all the usual self help stuff. It talks about stoicism and about how when we're told if we want something enough the universe will make it happen isn't helpful as it leaves us with blame and discontentment when it doesn't. Its about learning to accept and understand the diagonal line between your aims and life that's always pushing back at you. Its helping me be less attacking towards myself especially going through this, with so many lost dreams, regret etc its too easy to torture myself and its not helpful right now.

I agree having someone to calm you down does help, even though its chemical it does work to have people talk to you- my husband is really good at this, he sometimes just talks to me random stories in bed when Im distressed until I calm down, and always makes time to be patient with whatever the random anxieties I have that day. It must be exhausting for him. I feel guilty sometimes, but I also tell myself that if I can survive it that is what I owe to him, just to live through it and come out the other side somehow.

 

I hope youre doing ok,

Butterfly

[India]

How are you butterfly?

[ButterflyHope]

@India Hi thank you for asking. I'm ok but its been very tough. Its been a month on the liquid now and I think I'm slowly acclimatising to it. Its been so hard though, when I switched it gave me such bad anxiety and terror, I couldn't sleep or eat. Now I am very anxious still but Ive gone back to work and done 3 days so far, its two days a week. Its so hard I keep trying to tell myself its ok and this isn't me, I'm just so flat still. At least I can eat more now and sleep also most of the time. Ive just lost so much confidence from the last few months. Its set me back a lot. I'm trying to keep going- I do a lot of hypnosis, breathing in lavendar, Ive been to the gym a few times and seen a couple of friends.

 

It just highlights to me how I am so distracted I am, its really hard to 'stay in the room' I just go off into my own thoughts all the time and Im not sure why. They seem to take me in and I cant get back out, sometimes thoughts I dont want to have, does anyone else have these?

 

Im trying to do things to help myself but feel my options are few. If Im on my own too much or not distracted the thoughts come in, but if im around too many people it highlights how quiet and flat I feel and I need to escape.

 

Doe anyone have any advice on how to handle these thoughts when they come?

 

Butterfly

[ChessieCat]

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

 

[ButterflyHope]

Hi please can someone help me @ChessieCat @Altostrata I'm pretty desperate- I have been on full liquid for 6 weeks now and am worse than Ive ever been, Im sick every morning and can barely eat or sleep, I was doing much better on tablet form, since I switched even half and half I have had horrendous anxiety. Please can someone tell me I will be ok. I am planning to switch back to tablets as I cant go on like this. I thought it would take time to adjust but Im worse than ever and I think my body is rejecting the liquid. I had been starting to feel much better when on 1.2mg of tablet before switching, please can you confirm this is what I should switch back to?

 

I can give a timeline:

 

I dropped from 1.5mg to 1mg at the end of August, over September I went downhill in terms of tearfulness and flatness. At the beginning of October I updosed to 1.16mg and things started to improve. I then switched to half liquid half tablet on 11th October and then full liquid on 22nd October. I had rising anxiety since being on half liquid which got out of control by 28th october on full liquid, and I have needed diazepam to control it since. I also havent been sleeping well at all and wake up being sick. I believed this to be withdrawal but now I think I'm reacting badly to the liquid. In the past I have always stabilised even after aggressive cuts on the tablets and never needed diazepam.

 

Please don't frighten me as I'm very anxious and I just want to know I can be ok again, I cant go on like this and feel I'm going mad. This level of anxiety and nausea has only happened on the liquid. I have had 14 years on the tablets with the only problem being when I withdrew too aggressively, but have always stabilised. If I switch to 1.2mg this isn't a drop in dose but a switch in the form.

 

Please help

Butterfly

[jozeff]

Hi butterfly,

 

I'm sorry this isn't working the way you wanted to. That must be hard for you.

 

It could be that you having WD from your jump from 1.5 mg to 1 mg in August. Then you updosed again 2 months ago.

 

I take 1 solid pill in the morning and prepare a solution in the evening. Is your liquid exactly the same substance as your pills? I mean, I've been playing around with liquids and pills and didn't notice any difference. 

The pill dissolves in your throat/stomach in minutes so I don't understand why the liquid could be the problem? The pill becomes a solution in minutes, that's what I mean... I could be wrong of course but I'm just thinking about your problem. 

 

It is a commercial solution you use right?

 

I hope you find answers soon and you can continue your taper or try to get stable.

 

You can do it! You've come a long way and you will be ok again!!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

[Altostrata]

Yes, you can certainly go back to weighing a tablet. Some people don't do well with the liquid form.

[India]

You will find a way to stabilise. 

Are you using the commercial liquid? I found I did badly on my home made liquid form but better on this commercial one. Having said that, it's taken me months and months to get to this recent stability of no derealization. I am waking up present. I know the terror but you will stabilise!! The body wants to heal. You are going to be ok, it's just a matter of finding the right form and dosage. I honestly thought I would never be in reality again. I am . I notice I am still dealing with neuro emotions: anger being so intense. My memory is improving too. Going back to tablets and weighing them might be best solution. You will get there!! Sending much healing energy.

[ButterflyHope]

@Altostrata thank you- how long do you think it will take before I can notice any relief or changes? I have had two days on tablets now and although i didn't sleep well and was still sick in the night, when I woke up i didn't have the intense anxiety I've had consistently, I also think I feel slightly calmer but still overriding anxiety due to going through the last 6 weeks.

 

Also please can anyone reassure me that there's no reason i wont be ok again? I've got myself in such a state, because i feel I've now got to go through another change, albeit to a known quantity as I really was improving on tablets at 1.2mg. Ive also had doctors all telling me this is my underling anxiety come back and i need to go back on the tablets, I just want to know whats best to do and be reassured.

[Gridley]

There's no reason you won't be okay again.  The brain has an amazing capacity to heal, and there are many success stories on this site attesting to that.  The fact that you were improving at 1.2mg is a very good sign, as is the lessened anxiety.

 

Doctors have not a clue about withdrawal and the tired old line about "return of the underlying anxiety" is all-too-common and stems from ignorance.

 

If you're going back to tablets from liquid, we recommend a crossover to minimize stress on the system:

3/4 dose liquid, 1/4 dose tablet for 3 days

1/2 dose liquid, 1/2 dose tablet for 3 days

1/4 dose liquid, 3/4 dose tablet for 3 days

all tablet thereafter 

 

 

 

 

 

[ButterflyHope]

@Gridley thank you am I right to go back to 1.2mg? I have an urge to take more but think my nervous system should now be used to this dose as it’s been on it since beginning of October and it’s only on liquid at 1.1mg that I deteriorated. 

 

How long would I expect it to take to feel back to how I was doing before the liquid? 

[ButterflyHope]

Also does anyone know why I would have had very bad anxiety while on liquid? I’ve needed diazepam to help and never needed that before 

[Gridley]

What is your current dose on the liquid? Is it .55 liquid am, .55 liquid pm as in your signature?  First, I would do the crossover I described in my previous post to get to your current dose on tablets. Do not updose yet.   Make only one change at a time.  Once you've completed the crossover and have reached your current dose on the tablets, you can assess whether you need to updose.

 

Unfortunately, there is no way to tell how long it will take for you to stabilize. 

 

Regarding your anxiety on the liquid, as Alto said earlier, some people don't do well on liquid.

 

 

[Altostrata]

8 hours ago, ButterflyHope said:

Also does anyone know why I would have had very bad anxiety while on liquid? I’ve needed diazepam to help and never needed that before 

 

If your symptoms got worse since you changed to all-liquid, that's not agreeing with you. You might have to go back to weighing tablets.

[ButterflyHope]

@Altostrata thank you I’ve now had three days back on tablets at 1.2mg. Do you have any idea how long it will be before I feel better? Also is it possible I’m still feeling affects of previous cuts? The one that hit me was 1.5-1mg end of aug, September was awful by end of Oct I was feeling better so switched to liquid. I’ve gone downhill since then as so anxious. 

[Altostrata]

Do you feel any different on the tablets?

[ButterflyHope]

@Altostrata I’m not sure yet I was sick again this morning, I was getting better on this dose for a while but now I don’t know- how long should I wait? 

[ButterflyHope]

@Altostrata i think the morning anxiety and sickness has stopped. 

 

I feel very very depressed and down about the whole process now. I feel I am totally preoccupied with it and can’t think about anything else. Please can anyone help? I just need it to be over now and feel normal. I don’t seem to be able to help myself 

[Gridley]

That is very good news that the morning anxiety and sickness have stopped.   It's a sign that you are healing.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling so low.   The process can seem so long.  But it will end.  You have gotten down to a very low dose, and that's something to feel good about.

 

Can you try distracting yourself?  A walk in nature, music, reading,  videos?  See if any of the links below might be helpful in getting you out of thinking about the process.  

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

 

[ButterflyHope]

@Gridley thank you I’ve been walking and just at the gym 

 

im disheartened we have switched back to tablets and guess I expected too much. I found the liquid was making me crazy and extreme anxiety In mornings

 

guess I cant expect to feel better straight away back on tablets feel like I’ve got myself in an anxiety loop now 

[ButterflyHope]

Please can someone help I feel desperate 

 

I am stil anxious and feel strong urge to go back to the drug I couldn’t sleep and was sick again this morn I don’t want to live like this but am also scared to go back on it 

 

please help 

[Gridley]

 

1 hour ago, ButterflyHope said:

Please can someone help I feel desperate 

 

I am stil anxious and feel strong urge to go back to the drug I couldn’t sleep and was sick again this morn I don’t want to live like this but am also scared to go back on it 

 

please help 

 

What drug do you feel the urge to go back to?

 

As I understand it, you've been on the tablet for 7 days now.  Are your symptoms better on the tablet than on the liquid?

 

Please update your signature to reflect your current dosage and when you switched from liquid to tablet.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Please keep daily symptoms notes so that you can see how the switch to tablets is going.  This is an example:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

Please try to stay calm.  This will work out.

 

 

[ButterflyHope]

@Gridley yes a week ago I switched back. 

 

My symptoms have changed, I haven’t slept well but less intense anxiety not had any diazepam but still wretching this morn 

 

When I was on liquid I believed it had caused me damage due to intense emotions and memories I stuck with it but got worse. Now I’ve switched I don’t have the same ruminating memories and intense feelings but I do feel suicidal. I feel like I can’t go on like this and that I am trapped, as I can’t reinstate and I can’t stop it either. I’ve felt horrendous for so long I’ve forgotten what it’s like to feel normal and just want it to end. The only hope I have is I felt similar to this end of sep and by mid October I had some relief. I am praying it comes again 

[Gridley]

If you are really feeling suicidal, you need to seek out local help, and speak to someone trained in dealing with this.   See:  For those who are feeling desperate or suicidal

 

[jozeff]

Hi butterfly,

 

I'm sorry you feel so bad. You have to keep hope! You did so well lately. I don't think you are never going to heal. 

 

Panicking about your liquid/tablet situation will ramp up your system tremendously. You have to be patient!

 

I know how it feels to have no hope. I too have forgotten how it is to be normal and just live the day without all these troubles. 

 

If you feel suicidal try to survive an hour or just 10 minutes. Don't try to think in weeks, this makes you panick more probably. I watched a guy on YouTube named Douglas Bloch. He talks about these feelings and survived very deep depression. It helps me sometimes.

 

I'm sending you hugs and I hope you will feel better soon!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[ButterflyHope]

Can anyone support me? I think whats happened is that Ive tried 6 weeks on liquid and been very anxious. When I've tried to go back to work I felt too anxious to stay there and when Ive asked for help Ive been told to up my dose. I've stopped taking the liquid and switched back to tablets in the hope I'll be less anxious. However its made me feel more like I need the drug when I didn't used to think this. Ive just lost confidence in myself now I think

[Gridley]

Please update your signature.  It's difficult to advise you when we don't know your current status.  

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

You need to hold for a while and make no changes.  Going from tablet to liquid and back again to tablet constitutes three changes in a short period, changes that are destabilizing to your central nervous system.  I know there is the urge to do something, but holding until you stabilize is doing something and at this point is the best action you can take.

 

 

[jozeff]

Butterfly you have come so far! Don't let the tablet /liquid thing spoil your journey. 

 

I know it sounds way easier than it's done but I have a strong feeling that this is a major hickup in your medication taper but it's not going to be the end of the world for you.

 

I've read here many many times that the lower you go in dose the more careful we must be. You are of course very tense about this liquid not working for you. I fully understand it and you want to take action because you feel so bad.

 

Don't fluctuate in dose too much now. That will probably not help you.

 

Be patient and hold on, your successful taper will come!!!

 

 

Cheers and good luck!!

Jozeff