Rachellynn: Prozac & Remeron support :)

[Rachellynn]

I just read about someone passing away from Remeron. 

[powerback]

Rachellynn please do yourself a favour and find something distracting to read that doesn't upset you or triggers you  .relaxing = rest =sleep .not that simple but you get my drift .

I don't take phone calls after 1900 ,my mother also knows not to ring unless its an emergency.

My partner tells me about houses burnt down  or trouble in the area on Facebook at 2100 at night ,I tell her  NO  stop telling me about this stuff .

Create a safe and stable place for yourself to heal.

Take care total respect 🙏 

[Goosie]

I only slept two hours as well.   From 7 am to 9 am.    Reading the success stories to stay hopeful

[bheb]

Yes, I saw that study about iron and akathisia. Very interesting, I got diagnosed with iron-deficiency anemia a couple months before the akathisia hit.

 

I used to take iron supplements before akathisia, but I actually stopped because I found that they brought me to a normal energy level which in turn made it harder for me to sleep. So yeah I've been using my iron deficiency as a crutch a bit which isn't good...but I also started eating meat again to see if I could help it a little. Yes red meat is good (still don't eat red meat yet), or chicken livers (I think?).

[Rachellynn]

Thank you for the reply!! That’s what i was scared of😂😘😘😘😘  tried liver - too activating😱

[ChessieCat]

13 hours ago, Rachellynn said:

I’m finding some inconsistencies here. Some people told that it’s ok to take benzos through AD withdrawal - that many people do it. Others are condemned. 

 

I suggest you see the responses which DaveB has recently got.  That will save the mods and members repeating themselves.  Start at this post:

 

On 2/26/2019 at 5:19 AM, DaveB said:

So...it is probably time I updated everyone, hopefully I will still be able to find some support here even though I made a decision contrary to what was being suggested. I have been doing very well the last 4 days...but I started to take some Klonopin.

 

[Altostrata]

How are you doing, Rachellynn?

[savinggrace]

On 2/26/2019 at 8:18 AM, Rachellynn said:

I’m finding some inconsistencies here. Some people told that it’s ok to take benzos through AD withdrawal - that many people do it. Others are condemned. 

 

Some people told to stop or reduce meds quickly if they are not helping. And others told to just hold consistent. I’m just getting confused 😕

Rachellyn,

i think most people would be trying to tell you not to start taking benzos or increase your use of them during AD withdrawal. You just end up with another potentially worse dependence. 

 

Depends on who you are listening to also. In some forums people are instructed to get rid of the benzo first. I tried to do that. Didn’t work. Here at SA the thought is to get off more activating drugs first (sorta with protection of the sedating benzo), stabilize from other drug withdrawal and then taper benzo. No one here will advise you to increase your use of a benzo to get off remeron or any other drug. There just simply isn’t a pill to help us through this process. If there was, we’d all be taking it. 

 

No one here says to get off drugs quickly unless they are toxic. Sounds like bad doctor advice. At most, a 10% taper every few weeks is advised and that would literally kill me with seizures. Every one is different. Unfortunately there is no specific answer for you. You ask questions, weigh answers/opinions and ultimately choose your path yourself. Otherwise you are not respecting what your own body, brain, and gut are telling you. BTW, my body and brain often say take more benzos or drink or “calm me down somehow please” but fortunately my reasoning and gut know that this will be a bandaid that will cover a wound that will never heal if I do so. 

 

You need to choose who to trust and listen to. I do a lot of reading and research and have participated in other forums,  and the best advice is here at SA. 

 

Grace

[Rachellynn]

@savinggrace i know Grace! I try to convince myself that my brain is playing tricks on me!!! If i feel almost normal on benzos then there has to be a way to get there without them!

 

im looking into a diet that will reduce glutamic acid production and increase gaba. 

 

I have also just yesterday met with a skilled skilled sleep specialist/psychiatrist who knows about withdrawal. 

 

I have started low dose baclofen to help with gaba and to reduce high glutamic activity (Akathisia, Insomina - over time)

 

ive also started on H1 and H2 blockers to reduce Mast Cell issues, which I’ve had before. This is also excitatory. 

 

Next, i beleive we will move to progesterone treatment - which i do need and apparently also increases the production of gaba. 

 

Please no horror stories or giving me crap about adding meds. I am very hopeful about this Dr. and am looking forward to the improvements. When i used H1 and H2 blockers in the past - it helped me immensely. 

 

I also lowered to 7.5mg remeron (took this at 6pm - I KNOW but i was exhausted) per his instruction. I slept for a few hours (6:30-11pm broken) and then took 2.5 baclofen, felt very relaxed, and then after a couple hours took another 2.5. I fell asleep for another couple hours. 2-5am. 

 

I am very lethargic today today and don’t feel great but he warned me about that. 

 

Maybe this will help someone. Let me know if there are questions. Love you all. 

 

PS. He he doesn’t believe in or use benzos at all and neither does my GP so that’s not an option! 

[Rachellynn]

Also...he believes that i have already done a lot of healing due to the fact that i have been off SSRI’s for 4 years, was recently able to work part time, dance, do yoga, etc...and experiencing little to no anxiety. Though I’ve had some setbacks, I’m now hopeful that with his help i will eventually make a full recovery. 

 

I will most likely be here less in the next few months as I’m easily triggered. But i will pop by to check in. Sending love❤️

[bheb]

Did you get a blood test for progesterone levels? I did and I had basically 0 and I’m a 22 year old girl..so that was kind of alarming. I’m afraid to supplement though the doctor prescribed me bio-identical progesterone. I wonder whether the messed up hormones had something to do with the severity of my reaction or if they’re just a product of all this AD stress.

 

How long have you been dealing with akathisia? Is that why they put you on mirtazipine?

[Rachellynn]

Akathisia is off and on. Insomnia causes it for me. I was put on Mirt for Insomnia and to gain weight...worked for awhile...sigh.

 

yes...i did a cortisol test that included hormones. My DHEA is low too. 

 

I tgink a lot of of us get put on AD’s when we actually have hormonal issues instead. So frustrating. ❤️

[bheb]

I see, yeah akathisia and insomnia go hand in hand for me personally. It doesn't let me sleep, but then if I don't sleep it gets worse.

 

I'm glad you don't have it constantly though. And I hope the bacloen/H1H2 blockers help you. I'm also trying to figure out if I've got some underlying issues delaying my recovery. I've at least got a ton of stress which I will hopefully be reducing soon. 

 

[savinggrace]

Rachellyn,

If my horror stories have upset you, that was never my intent. I always try really hard, especially with young people who have time on their side, to prevent the tragic turn my life took. 

 

Just wondering...was this sleep doctor Alto’s doctor? (As you have said you were seeing that person soon)

 

i stay way far away from glutamine. Glutamic acid is an excitatory neurotransmitter. I stopped using protein supplements because they increased glutamic activity. Many supplements w/ added amino acid have L-glutamine. Read labels carefully. I think diet is a big player here. I stay far away from MSG; it is in tons of flavor enhancers for processed food. I think you are on the right track here. 

 

It is is well known that remeron is more sedating at lower doses. I have never understood this but it has something to do with which neuro-transmitters it works on.  Something to do with serotonin and nor-epinephrine ratio. 

 

As i said earlier today, Rachellyn, you choose a path and who to listen to. It sounds like you feel good about this doctor. You feel better already. You slept twice as much last night.  I think that is what you need now. Maybe not asking for opinions or reading too many “horror stories” now, really is the right choice for you. There has to be some peace that comes with choosing a path and not questioning everything. I am at that crossroads now and have no idea what direction I will go. 

 

I really hope the best for you  Rachellyn. I apologize if sharing my personal experience has contributed to your angst. 

 

Grace

 

 

[Rachellynn]

@savinggrace no, not you at all. I love you❤️

[Rachellynn]

@savinggrace yes, this is Alto’s Dr❤️❤️❤️

[Rachellynn]

1 hour ago, bheb said:

I've at least got a ton of stress which I will hopefully be reducing soo

This is HUGE. You will be just fine, i know it😘

[Rachellynn]

16 minutes ago, savinggrace said:

Something to do with serotonin and nor-epinephrine ratio. 

Oh really?! I thought it works on histamine at low doses!

[savinggrace]

Rachellyn,

Yes, it is also known to enhance histamine. I actually had an allergist refuse to do allergy tests on me because I was taking an anti-histamine, which I wasn’t technically, but the scratch test showed no reaction to histamine...which was because of the remeron. 

 

I have had had bad allergies since birth, so I guess the remeron has helped me in that sense. 

 

Nice that you could go to a doctor that Alto trusted. 

 

Take care

Grace

 

 

[Rachellynn]

Yes. He’s good looking too😂 

 

he actually said the remeron may now be contributing to daytime anxiety...ugh. But he said it is much less of a beast than SSRI’s. 

 

And OH NO. He wants me to stay up until 9pm. This will be very hard for me. 5 hours. Agh. Lol. 

 

What dose remeron are you on? Is that why you eat so few foods? Thanks for sharing about the MSG - “natural flavors” how RUDE. 

 

Have a a good night sweetie!

[savinggrace]

I am only on 4 mg. remeron, Rachellyn...I down-dosed myself 15 years ago from 7.5 and accidentally found that I slept better, so I stayed there.  When I told my doctor he said I was absolutely right...it does help you sleep at lower doses.  I use a scale; thus the unconventional dose.  I used to break up a 15 mg. pill but that was too inaccurate.  Don't feel badly that I am only on 4 mg.  I am in a real mess with my other drugs.

 

I believe my vagus nerve has been badly damaged which affects one's entire digestive system (and other things).  It is irreversible damage.  There are things one can do to get this working better, but when it slows down, so does your digestion and it causes all sorts of untoward effects.

 

9 o"clock...OMG...you are staying up later than my little grandchildren tonight!!! 😀  Seriously, I hope you can do it.  It is getting closer to your bedtime as I write.  I wish you sweet dreams...

 

Yes, yes, read labels.  Staying away from glutamate is important.  I don't eat anything that says "natural flavors" as an ingredient, because that means it can be most anything.  My diet is abysmal, but I prefer to be off a feeding tube and also to sleep.

 

Grace

 

 

[savinggrace]

Oh, yeah, nice to know he's good looking!!!  😀

[Rachellynn]

Well. What I’ve been told: unless you have a bullet in your brain or your vagus nerve has been severed. You CAN HEAL. 

 

Thats prob why why he wanted me to go back down to 7.5mg!! Maybe sometime I’ll get down to 4mg and stay there. Apparently Baclofen is supposed to help with deep sleep and growth hormone or something...along with the gaba b receptor stuff. 

 

So so bloated today...getting my period soon. Bleh. Anyhow......the poor guys that look at my page, although...you are my best friend here.i think I’m going to try and stay up until 8pm tonight and perhaps 9pm tomorrow?! 

 

Yes. The Doc is handsome, too old for me though! Lol. 

 

What time one do you go to bed Grace?

 

 

[savinggrace]

Oh man, Rachellyn.  I wish you hadn't asked because I can't lie.  I don't go to bed until after midnight.  Usually don't fall asleep until 1 a.m. or later.  I wish I could sleep "regular hours"...for many reasons...some just practical.  I think I was born with some sort of sleep dysrhythmia.  I have never been an early morning person.  "early morning" meaning before 9 a.m.  When I was working and raising kids, it was a terrible problem.  My body NEVER adjusted to sleeping regular hours and so I ENDED UP ON PSYCH DRUGS, trying to force my body to do so.

 

It's nice to know that young people can find older people attractive still...😀  Being 64, it is hard to adjust to the old lady I see in the mirror.  I am about 40 in my head!

 

I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to titrate your sleep time.  Shoot, I wouldnt have blamed you if you said 7:30.  I was teasing you about your bedtime, if you didn't catch tha

t...

 

Don't think that my vagus nerve has been severed but it is implicated as being very damaged in all the ails me...

 

Glad to know you feel like you are in good hands.  Maybe I should fly out and see your doctor?  Good excuse to visit CA!  If only I ever left the house...

 

Hope you have a good night.

 

Grace

[Rachellynn]

That’s right! You told me about your sleep pattern! I really am thinking about those days when I’d fall asleep happy watching a movie and wake up to an alarm and then hit snooze and sleep an extra half hour - i actually used to hit snooze like 10 times😱 but once i was up, i was up! I never even drank coffee. Not really...it gave me anxiety...but i LOVE the taste of it!

 

yeah, the doc is in his 50’s..., he called me today to check in!!! Very cool. You SHOULD come here:)))) I’ve always felt like an old soul but also I’m still 18 in some ways. 

 

do this his exercise for your vagus nerve: 

 

lay down on your back with your hands behind your head. Look up to the ceiling, keeping your head straight...look to the left with your eyes, count to 60 and you should yawn. This is activating your vagus nerve. Do it on the other side. It really helps!

 

i might go to bed at 7:30, oddly I’m feeling decent right now...though  having burning pain in my right hand. Actually lots of burning nerve pain lately, esp on the right side of from my neck to my hand. I really need to get my neck adjusted- i really want to try NUCCA because it’s SUPER gentle. Can’t believe all the neck issues i have at this age. Bleh. 

 

Anyhow....BIG HUGS. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[savinggrace]

Well, yesterday I read that gargling, gagging and singing LOUD help your vagus nerve too but I haven't done any of those things yet.  I will try your suggestion.  Sounds a little more palatable than gargling (long and hard) and gagging.

 

I am super impressed that you know so much about the vagus nerve.  I had never known about it until mine stopped working.

 

Good night, old soul...

 

Old lady, young soul,

Grace

[Rachellynn]

I’ve been watching the show “Grace and Frankie” it makes me laugh and now it reminds me of you👯‍♀️😘

[Goosie]

I am glad you had a good appointment rachellynn.  I am sure you will get better.   

Lots of love 

[Rachellynn]

@Goosie thank you sweetheart❤️

 

My doc doc told me to stay up until 9pm. I took remeron 7.5mg at 8:30pm along with 1/4 tablet of Baclofen - slept from 9-2am. At 2:30am i took another 1/4 tablet and was relaxed but did not go back to sleep, i took another 1/4 at 5am...did not go back to sleep. 

 

Tonight, i will take remeron 7.5mg at 8:30pm along with 1/4 tablet of Baclofen and 1/2 tablet Baclofen when i wake up. 

 

Feeling glad that i got 5 hours uninterrupted sleep. Awoke feeling a little weak and shaky but feeling a tad better now. I’ve been spending most of my time in bed watching TV....i was able to do some exercises around 6:30. Felt good for a couple hours last night. 

 

But have quite a bit of burning sensations from my head/neck to my right arm. Wondering if it’s viral? Or neck related... alrighty, have a nice day everyone!

[savinggrace]

14 hours ago, Rachellynn said:

I’ve been watching the show “Grace and Frankie” it makes me laugh and now it reminds me of you👯‍♀️😘

Now i need to watch that show. My sister says it’s funny. Glad you got 5 hours last night, Rachellyn. It’s only night 2 of following the doctor’s orders and you are already doing better. I am slowly reading your whole thread to better understand what you have been through. (I have no life; might as well read about yours!)

 

Grace 

[savinggrace]

I tried your vagus nerve exercise in the middle of the night. It is surprisingly difficult to hold your eyes to one side for 60 seconds. I’ve got to get this vagus nerve in action!!! 💕

[Rachellynn]

@savinggrace did you yawn?!

[Rachellynn]

Or maybe i should take just 1/2 Baclofen with the 7.5mg remeron....wonder if that would extend my sleep and keep the morning fog at bay......I’ll speak with the doc today. 

[savinggrace]

 

12 minutes ago, savinggrace said:

I tried your vagus nerve exercise in the middle of the night. It is surprisingly difficult to hold your eyes to one side for 60 seconds. I’ve got to get this vagus nerve in action!!! 💕

No, I forgot the yawning part. I also had my eyes closed cuz I wanted to go to sleep. So I will do it again the proper way. 

 

At this point, I think heeding the doctor’s advice is important. Remember there is peace in choosing a path and sticking with it, even if eventually signals tell you to change course. 

 

I am currently choosing among about 6 paths, all of which will be very difficult. So many unknowns. No real answers. Trial and error or dumb luck, sometimes. 💕

 

[Rachellynn]

@savinggrace !!!! It won’t work if you do it with your eyes closed silly!!! Haha!

 

6 paths?! Can you narrow it down?🤪

 

im just wondering if i should try to get out of bed more, or just relax for now. I guess that’s my big question. Obviously our bodies are meant to move but i just wonder whether to try and rest/relax or get up and walk/move as much as possible. 

 

Do you want to share any of your paths?

 

 

[savinggrace]

Well, this is your thread, but since you asked I will answer here...

 

My paths are to taper any one of my drugs.

Choose to taper trileptal which may be activating and speeding the clearance of the other drugs

Choose to taper the benzo which may be accumulating to a toxic level after 16 years

Choose to taper remeron (though not really considering that)

Choose to taper a tiny percentage of all three at once, since they have all been working together for 16 years

Choose to liquid taper which I suspect will be a hard adjustment for me as I tried it about 7 years ago and I became unhinged (different bioavailability?)

Buy a super expensive high precision digital scale to make daily micro cuts of benzo as my gut says this is what is causing my shortness of breath and tachycardia...

Holding is no longer an option.

Cold-turkey would kill me.  A  1 mg. cut at the onset of a benzo taper 10 years ago (about 7% of dose) gave me a seizure on day five.

 

Well, there are 7, but there are other considerations as well.  Given my current increased frequency of shortness of breath and tachycardia, I feel I have no choice but to make a choice now.  I am not at all stable though.  I haven't been stable for 15 years. I just managed to remain functional.  My reason for not doing something sooner?  Ignorance, perhaps.  It wasn't until a decade ago that I realized my drugs are likely the major cause of many, but not all my health problems.  At the age of 64, this is all getting more serious.  Which is what I anticipated but kept failing at any attempts to change anything except reduce the trileptal...which helped, until it didn't.

 

I think getting out of bed and moving is always helpful.  Being as active as possible is always helpful for our bodies and our minds.  I spend most of my time in bed or on the couch, though, from lethargy and fatigue.  I force myself to walk an hour a day.  The lethargy and fatigue are from depression, the drugs, and lack of sleep and adequate nutrition.

 

It's a long day.  Been up since 4 am.

 

Grace