Rachellynn: Prozac & Remeron support :)

[Altostrata]

When were you taking 10mg Prozac?

 

I'm very confused about what you're taking now, and when you're taking it. Please explain.

 

Do you have any Prozac left?

[Rachellynn]

2 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Did the Prozac affect anything else?

 

Are you still taking Ativan? If yes, how often? Are you still taking mirtazapine?

The Prozac didn’t effect anything, If so...not much. Ativan 1/4 tablet either with the mirt or when i wake up at 11...not sure why tho. I probably won’t take it tonight. 

 

Last night i took 7.5mg plus 1/2 of that. 

 

I dont know how how you guys will help me. Im such a mess 😕

[Rachellynn]

Just now, Altostrata said:

When were you taking 10mg Prozac?

 

I'm very confused about what you're taking now, and when you're taking it. Please explain.

 

Do you have any Prozac left?

I am only taking mirtazapine - last night i took 7.5 + 1/2 of 7.5mg if that makes sense. And I’m not going to use the Ativan anymore...didn’t do anything accept that one time i took 1mg. ie. Does not help with sleep so won’t take it anymore. 

 

I have liquid prozac but stopped it after a week. The trazadone was an effort to get me sleeping by my doc but didn’t work so not taking. 

[Rachellynn]

@eymen23 and @Altostrata I’m so sorry for how annoying i seem right now, everything I’ve done is a shameful desperate attempt to stabilize my sleep but if it doesn’t work fast, i abandon it out of fear of harming myself further. 

 

I asked for advice a long time ago - when i was only just starting to fall apart but i don’t think was doing something right...just stating that the remeron stopped working for me, etc...? What can i do to be better at this?

[eymen23]

Rachellynn,

 

Looking at your signature, it appears you abruptly halved your dose of Remeron in March 18? Is that correct?

 

It could well be that rather than Remeron pooping out on you, you began experiencing a delayed reaction to that change roughly 3 months ago, which has led to you making a number of further changes, causing further destabilisation.

 

You have told Alto that the Prozac didn’t really impact your symptoms, but on Thursday you posted to say that after taking 4mg of Prozac you’d not slept at all. Please can you confirm if the insomnia worsened after taking it?

 

Please can you list all of the drugs and supplements you have taken in the last month or so, with the dosages? As Alto said it’s unclear.

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Rachellynn said:

Hi there. Am i supposed to do daily symptoms? I wasn’t sure. I did reinstate for like a week and then freaked out and backed away. I also tried trazadone 50mg and i hated it. I’m really messing up throwing everything at my poor body. I must learn patience. 

 

Last night until now:

 

4:00pm - bad anxiety

4:00-5:00pm - Dinner and birthday Cake

5:00-5:30 - played a game with my family

5:30pm - had chamomile tea

6:00 - laid down with my sister to watch tv, she was rubbing my back - super calming but was having some skipped heart beats 

7:00 - took 7.5mg remeron and Holy Basil

7:30 - nodded off a bit

11:00pm - woke up, stressed, saw that it was 11 (started period - sorry for TMI) and stressed more.

At some point took 1/2 7.5 remeron and 1/2 of 1mg remeron 

Writing on here and crying until 7am, 

7am - chamomile tea

7:30 - pecans and banana

8:00am - adrenal cocktail (coconut water, salt, orange) family is up, i let my dog out, fed her. Cried. 

9:00am - breakfast with family, eggs and toast with avicado, nettles tea 

10:00 - feeling tired, dizzy, stressed, not sure weather to go on a jog or back to bed - can’t sleep tho. 

 

Prozac seems too activating right now without a strong sedative to sleep/deal with. Considering Valium. I just don’t want to end up here again but not sure how to heal without sleep. 

 

Wrote to a Dr. who suggested i look into limbac retraining. Ugh. 

 

Thank you you for the reply. Let me know what more you need. I’m sorry - I’m out of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

RL, the Ativan is important! How often do you take it, and how much? How long have you been taking it every night? @Shep

 

We need to know what you're taking every day. Keep notes!

[Altostrata]

15 minutes ago, Rachellynn said:

Ativan 1/4 tablet either with the mirt or when i wake up at 11...not sure why tho. I probably won’t take it tonight. 

 

We need to know exactly how much Ativan you're taking. What number of milligrams is the whole tablet?

[Rachellynn]

I made that big cut before i found this website. I honestly don’t have exact dates for what I’ve done and i haven’t tried any other supplements for sleep - besides chamomile Tea or valerian Tea which I’ve alwaus done. I’m sure i cut the remeron too quickly then but i was not yet aware that the drugs were hurting me - however i did want to be off of them. 

 

I was sleeping well until some stressors threw me off - this was physical therapy, a massage and cranio-sacral involving my neck that threw me into shock destabilizing my CNS. 

 

Ive been taking bad advise from my GP to try this/that. Etc...i realize that all this chopping is bad. I want to change that. 

 

I have had worse insomnia from the prozac 4mg dose but not sure if it’s stress or the drug. As I’ve been so stressed about what to do to help myself on top of trying things. 

[Rachellynn]

4 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

 

RL, the Ativan is important! How often do you take it, and how much? How long have you been taking it every night? @Shep

 

We need to know what you're taking every day. Keep notes!

I took 1mg of it on around the 30th with 7.5mg remeron and slept 7 hours. Since then i took 1/2 tablet a couple nights and 1/4 tablet the last few nights. I only have one tablet 1mg left. 

 

Its ao so hard to remember all this. I’m sorry for not keeping notes😭

[Altostrata]

Your signature says

 

Jan 31 - Feb 9 - 1/4 1mg Ativan daily -- is that correct?

 

Have you been taking 7.5mg Remeron every night or has there been a break somewhere in the last few weeks?

[Rachellynn]

3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Your signature says

 

Jan 31 - Feb 9 - 1/4 1mg Ativan daily -- is that correct?

 

Have you been taking 7.5mg Remeron every night or has there been a break somewhere in the last few weeks?

No. I only took 1mg for one night, the rest i was splitting it in half and sometimes even just taking 1/4 tablet like yesterday. I only have one pill left and had only 10 days worth - stupid. 

 

Ive been taking 7.5mg but last night took 10mg 

[Altostrata]

Quote

Jan 31 - Feb 9 - 1/4 1mg Ativan daily

 

This says you took 0.25mg Ativan daily for 10 days, is that correct? Or you take more sometimes, but still took some every day for 10 days?

 

Did you skip any days taking Ativan? Did you take it at the same time each day?

[Rachellynn]

1 minute ago, Altostrata said:

 

This says you took 0.25mg Ativan daily for 10 days, is that correct? Or you take more sometimes, but still took some every day for 10 days?

 

Did you skip any days taking Ativan? Did you take it at the same time each day?

I changed the dose but took it usually at about 7pm. One time i took 1/4 in the morning and one or two times i took 1/2 at 11:30 when i woke up. But yes - every day 😕

[Shep]

24 minutes ago, Rachellynn said:

valerian Tea

 

Rachel, how long and how often have you been taking valerian tea?

 

Please note that valerian also acts on the same GABA receptors as Ativan, so as much information as you can provide will help us give you advice. 

[Rachellynn]

I had valerian tea the past four nights. And Holy Basil last night. I guess i was trying to knock myself out with a multi-approach but when it didn’t work i went off the rails. 

[Rachellynn]

I will stick to chamomile. I’m sorry. 

 

Ive also been having a lot of bone broth - trying to take care of my gut?! Could that effect me?!

[Rachellynn]

There’s nothing else to tell. That’s all of it. I know it’s a lot, and i try to meditate and get out in the sun, laugh, hug my dog, etc...every day but mostly I’m just laying around until i get sleep. Am i too confusing to help? 

 

Thank you all for all your efforts so far, i really apreciate you so much. 

[Gracee]

Rachellynn,  You said you have only one tablet of Ativan left.  I hope you don't mind my asking what are you planning to do when you run out of Ativan?

Thanks,

G.

[Rachellynn]

I guess...not take it anymore. I don’t have any other option. 

[Rachellynn]

8 minutes ago, Gracee said:

Rachellynn,  You said you have only one tablet of Ativan left.  I hope you don't mind my asking what are you planning to do when you run out of Ativan?

Thanks,

G.

Any suggestions? Make a liquid and take a small amount every night?! I thought dependence was after long term use. What am i doing? I’m going to run myself into the ground this way. I won’t do it. I’ll be ok. 

[Gracee]

8 minutes ago, Rachellynn said:

I guess...not take it anymore. I don’t have any other option. 

 

I tend to be quite interested in benzo use in others as I have an addictive personality.

For me, three or four consecutive days' use of benzos or ambien results in dependency and I'll experience several days of VERY high anxiety after stopping those drugs.  I know many others like me have the same issue.  If your anxiety increases after stopping Ativan, imo the Ativan will be the culprit.  You'll need a few days to settle down after that. Again, my opinion only.

[Shep]

2 hours ago, Rachellynn said:

11:00pm - woke up, stressed, saw that it was 11 (started period - sorry for TMI) and stressed more.

 

Do you feel this may be more hormonal related than anything? 

 

If so, you'll likely feel better in a few days. 

 

I'm in perimenopause, so I know to expect to get hit with more symptoms during that time. Many (if not most) women on this site report upticks in symptoms during PMS. Knowing to expect that may help. 

 

Do as much self-care as you can. 

 

2 minutes ago, Rachellynn said:

Any suggestions? Make a liquid and take a small amount every night?! I thought dependence was after long term use. What am i doing? I’m going to run myself into the ground this way. I won’t do it. I’ll be ok. 

 

It's safe to stop within the first 10 days. I believe you mentioned you have one pill left? If so, you could use it to do a rapid taper over the next 2 or 3 days by cutting it with a pill cutter. That would be more gentle than an abrupt stop. 

[Rachellynn]

I feel like i don’t have an addictive personality but i always took my meds as prescribed and stopped as prescribed - which never mattered. I’m already not sleeping so i don’t know ugh. 

 

 

[Rachellynn]

1 minute ago, Shep said:

 

Do you feel this may be more hormonal related than anything? 

 

If so, you'll likely feel better in a few days. 

 

I'm in perimenopause, so I know to expect to get hit with more symptoms during that time. Many (if not most) women on this site report upticks in symptoms during PMS. Knowing to expect that may help. 

 

Do as much self-care as you can. 

 

 

It's safe to stop within the first 10 days. I believe you mentioned you have one pill left? If so, you could use it to do a rapid taper over the next 2 or 3 days by cutting it with a pill cutter. That would be more gentle than an abrupt stop. 

Thank you! Yes...everything gets worse for me right before my period. For sure. Any idea on what i should do about the remeron? This is so confusing!!!

[Rachellynn]

I guess my biggest issue is decreased sleep in the past three months. I have to sleep to heal my brain 😕

[Rachellynn]

@Altostrata any suggestions? Things i should for sure STOP doing? What about Remeron/sleep? Thank you so much. 

[Altostrata]

RL, do you still have that sensation of internal dryness? Are you still constipated? Are your hands and feet often cold? Is your hair dry?

 

When was the last time you had a thyroid function check for hypothyroidism? You'd need TSH, free T3, free  T4, reverse T3 @Karma please confirm

 

Many women here find their symptoms are much worse at times in their cycle. (Long before I tried an antidepressant, I would have a couple of days of sleeplessness before my period.)

 

On 12/27/2018 at 12:49 AM, Rachellynn said:

....

 

Ive been worse again for about two months. Ever since that shock to my system. I was sleeping like a baby. Pretty sure i have low blood volume due to all this. I was stable but after physical therapy shocking my system and then two more vagal reactions my nerves are fried and I’m not sleeping. Christmas actually was a decent day but I’ve been having histamine reactions again - i was clear of those for the last at least six months. Now I’m suffering, a bit suicidal 

 

On 1/5/2019 at 5:01 AM, Rachellynn said:

.... i slept the other night for 10 hours straight which is unusual for me and then i felt worse - now not sleeping again. Am also feeling like I’ve got fluid retention in my head - glymphatic system? I tried 15mg of remeron the night before last and slept 12 hours straight but again felt worse with more sleep. Last night i took my usual 7.5mg and slept for 2 hours. I am so out of touch with reality and starting to not digest my food again (burning through food very fast) and just lost as to what i am supposed to do. 

 

Have your digestive problems cleared up?

 

On 1/8/2019 at 7:06 AM, Rachellynn said:

....

 

Stanford has just invited me to participate in CFS research so we will see what that entails!

 

I had to up my remeron from 7.5mg to 10mg to sleep. Can’t heal without sleep. My hope is that I’ll be able to do mild yoga again as it is particularly helpful for me!

 

thanks for reaching out again, it’s always nice feeling less alone! Big hugs❤️

 

CFS, the cause of which is unclear, has a dysautonomia component.

 

On 2/7/2019 at 6:07 AM, Rachellynn said:

Confused at what to do...my remeron pooped out on me. I’m not sleeping at all. The last three months have been brutal. Once in a while i will sleep anywhere from 6-10 hrs but most nights I’m getting between 1-4 hrs of sleep with some nights of zero hours. 

 

My Dr. gave me a micro dose of Prozac which breaks my heart to do...I’ve been taking 2mg and then upped to 4mg the last two nights and slept zero. I’ve been taking it for about 1.5 weeks. Not sure weather to abandon that idea or not. Also obviously I’ll have to tapervthe remeron since it’s not working anymore. 

 

My Dr.s think i have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - not sure how to differentiate what I’m going through vs. protracted withdrawal from Prozac and now remeron mixed in the game. 

 

Any advice?

 

Were you sleeping on 2mg Prozac?

 

Very possible 4mg Prozac was too much for you and kindled you a bit, causing additional activation. This should settle down in time. You need to be patient.

 

11 hours ago, Rachellynn said:

5th night - no sleep. 

 

Sleeplessness is pretty awful, I know. But if it is caused by a drug reaction, it will go eventually get better if you don't do anything else to set it off.

 

Please be patient while you work through this. Many people here have experienced it. It's very difficult but you can hang in while it resolves.

 

When you have long-term post-acute Prozac withdrawal syndrome (PAWS), which seems likely in your case, your nervous system will be very sensitive to drugs and variations in dosing. We already know your nervous system is hypersensitive.

 

It appears you became very anxious when 7.5mg Remeron "pooped out," but it may not have pooped out -- you might have had a night of sleeplessness for other reasons, such as a paradoxical reaction to an Ativan dose or a histamine reaction to liver. Since you've tried a bunch of ah hoc fixes, any of those might have shaken your hypersensitive nervous system even more.

 

No matter what you do, you must take your drugs at the same time each day and keep daily notes to ascertain the effect of any changes.

 

It seems to me your sleeplessness might be from:

 

- Inconsistent dosing of Remeron (rebound insomnia)

10mg was effective, why not stick with that?

 

- Inconsistent dosing of Ativan (rebound or paradoxical symptoms)

May need to take a microdose of Ativan more than once a day and taper off. @Shep

 

- Increase of Prozac from 2mg to 4mg (kindling)

A dose of Prozac lower than 2mg, such as 0.5mg, might be helpful.

 

- Hypothyroidism

Thyroid check as noted above.

 

- CFS apart from PAWS or other autoimmune condition

What happened at Stanford?

 

- Histamine intolerance or other reaction to foods or supplements

What supplements are you taking? STOP EATING ORGAN MEATS. Rather than organ meats, which are high in histamine, you might take sublingual methylcobalamin (B12), start with a tiny crumb.

 

Since you're already taking Remeron, I would increase the dosage to 10mg and stick with it for at least 5 nights, keeping notes about the effect every night. What to do about the Ativan? @Shep

 

Will your doctor refill your prescription for Ativan? You may need it to taper off.

[Shep]

1 minute ago, Altostrata said:

Since you're already taking Remeron, I would increase the dosage to 10mg and stick with it for at least 5 nights, keeping notes about the effect every night. What to do about the Ativan? @Shep

 

This was my suggestion for Ativan:

 

24 minutes ago, Shep said:

It's safe to stop within the first 10 days. I believe you mentioned you have one pill left? If so, you could use it to do a rapid taper over the next 2 or 3 days by cutting it with a pill cutter. That would be more gentle than an abrupt stop. 

 

The dependency window for benzos is 2 - 4 weeks, so hopefully, this rapid reduction will be sufficient. 

 

Rachel, please let us know how you're doing over the coming days. 

[Rachellynn]

Thank you so much. I will continue with 10mg - no more constipation, skin  and hair are dry yes. 

 

TSH - 1.13 normal 

Free T4 - .97 low

Free T3 - 2.70 low

Reverse T3 - 10.00 normal 

 

Stanford - was just research, so nothing. The clinical labs were “perfect.” 

 

Should i discontinue the valerian? Do you think because of PAWS - i should go on .5mg? I know you won’t suggest that, but have you ever heard of it as helpful this late in the game? Valium perhaps for sleep? To slow taper later? Disaster? 

 

I will fast taper the Ativan. 

 

My periods have been excruciating through my twenties, can’t remember if it effected my sleep but i used to get bad cramps. 

 

I will stop with the beef organs (already stopped these - too activating-could have been my problem) /bone broth for now 😕 

 

i will meditate and practice gentle yoga. Thank you so so much for your care/concern and help. I can’t thank you enough. 

 

 

[Rachellynn]

Just now, Rachellynn said:

TSH - 1.13 normal 

Free T4 - .97 low

Free T3 - 2.70 low

Reverse T3 - 10.00 nor

Oh and i have Hashimotos!! 

[Altostrata]

Are your T3 and T4 abnormally low? Not sure what this means. @Karma

 

Your sleeplessness may have been kicked off by the organ meats. (Coincidentally, it was from eating a lot of liver that I plunged myself into histamine intolerance and sleeplessness.)

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Since you're already taking Remeron, I would increase the dosage to 10mg and stick with it for at least 5 nights, keeping notes about the effect every night.

 

Shep has given you instructions about the Ativan. Please keep daily notes about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

[Rachellynn]

Yes. I started around Christmas time and Christmas was the last day i felt happy. And slept. No more organ meats for me. Thanks again🙏🏼

[Rachellynn]

Ok. I’m about to meditate. Chest pains. Ouch. 

 

Im going to have my dinner and chamomile tea, listen to bedtime stories and try to stay off here tonight. Those of you that i spoke with today please say a lil prayer for my sleep tonight. 

 

7am - chamomile tea

lots of crying 

8am - adrenal cocktail

 -had some nuts/banana 

9:30am breakfast with family

-eggs/toast with avocado

10:30am - nuts/yogurt/sauerkraut 

12:15 - chamomile tea 

more crying 

1:30- lunch a tuna w avocado 

1:45 - tea

2:00 - meditation 

 -super dizzy, blurred vision, brain fog 

2:30 - adrenal cocktail 

4:00- apple and nuts and less than 1/4 Ativan (anxiety creeps in at 4)

4:30 - played a game with grandma

5:00 - attempt at meditation 

 

off to eat. And then 😴😴😴😴😴

 

[Rachellynn]

Slept from 7:30-11😭

[Rachellynn]

Stayed calm until 3am. It’s 6am and I’m nauseous. Yawning so much I’m crying. 

[Rachellynn]

Got up at 7am and took my dog out. Made chamomile tea. Feel like I’m in outer space👽