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Claudius

Use this to embark into spiritual life

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Claudius

Already in early WD I bought some spiritual self-help books. But due to the ignorance of the doctors, I still thought I had just mental problems and wanted to clear up my body and mind from the old stuff and habits. Unfortunately, my physical and mental condition deteriorated rapidly from early 2008 and the spiritual books lost all meaning for me. And as I told in anther thread, my life was ruled by hatred, thoughts of violence and revenge, of self-pity and anger. And though I experienced some windows from the 20 months point or so, the messages still did not kick in really or were wiped away from my mind during the awful waves in which I did stupid and dangerous things again.

In fact I may praise myself still lucky that those actions did not do more damage than they did. And that I had support from a family member and still enough financial support to get some good therapist who did their jobs to pull me through.

LAst year I derailed again by seeking again the confrontation with my former bully against all odds and now I realize more than ever that I was not myself but was lived by a false ego as Eckhart Tolle explains so perfectly well in his books. And that I always carried a pain body that was triggered in a tremendous way when WD fully hit me and magified a zillion times.

 

Now I am reading A New World from Tolle and the pieces start to fall together. I have still a way to go, am still unable to resume full-time work and still cope with the fact that I did such dangerous things and in fact violated the law by expressing my hatred to that particular guy in such an extent that I could have been sent to prison. So I may be grateful that I am still a free man with the possibility to start from scratch.

It will be difficult to find something positive from the hell of going cold turkey, which was completely unnecessary if the docs would have done their jobs properly. But whatever happened happenend, and maybe this has been the unbelievable crisis Tolle talks about when he said that people sometimes get enlightend from their twisted thinking afer having lost anything they counted on and put their trust and self-esteem on.

But at the same time this twisted thinking has been largely caused by the drug... so that is the dilemma here which is unique for us who came off those devastating drugs!

Anyway I want to build a new life and will use the work of Tolle as a "red wire". Are there poeple out here who know his work and get their benefit from it?

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Healing

Great topic title and great post, Claudius!

 

That's a really interesting metaphor of the "red wire." I don't quite grasp it. Something about an extra wire that turns on the power at a second level?

 

Tolle has a lot of good things to say. I'm really glad you've found a writer who is so useful to you!

 

But whatever happened happenend, and maybe this has been the unbelievable crisis Tolle talks about when he said that people sometimes get enlightend from their twisted thinking afer having lost anything they counted on and put their trust and self-esteem on.

But at the same time this twisted thinking has been largely caused by the drug... so that is the dilemma here which is unique for us who came off those devastating drugs!

 

This is a challenging paradox -- the twisted thinking is an artifact of neurological damage, but it is *also* a spiritual boulder that has been put in our path to make us re-think everything about our lives.

 

In other words, I try to think that there are different levels of reality that are all true. It doesn't have to be that only one of the levels is true.

 

There's the physical level of what has happened to us -- very real, we want to keep people off these meds as much as possible.

 

Then, there's the psychological level -- including both the issues you had before you ever took a med, plus your own unique *relationship* to the meds and the damage.

 

Then, there's the mystical level -- why did this happen? Might it have been orchestrated by the Universe and/or our own higher selves to get us on a truer path?

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Claudius

"The red wire", was a literal translation from Dutch! But apperently it has no meaning in English... it means something as "the connection thread", "a theme", "the main plot line".

Hope this makes it clear! :D

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Claudius

There's the physical level of what has happened to us -- very real, we want to keep people off these meds as much as possible.

 

Then, there's the psychological level -- including both the issues you had before you ever took a med, plus your own unique *relationship* to the meds and the damage.

 

Then, there's the mystical level -- why did this happen? Might it have been orchestrated by the Universe and/or our own higher selves to get us on a truer path?

 

This is interesting indeed. While the thought that is has been orchstrated by the Universe is a way of giving it some meaning, I just cannot believe EVERYthing has a meaning. I know that years of my life have been pure hell due to this drug and did me and my family much grief and made me act like an idiot. And that many people lost their lifes to it. What has been the "meaning" for them? What about all those lifes being destroyed because of these drugs? Is there a bigger meaning to that? I cannot see that.

Not everything is "meant to be". And while under the influence or in the WD of these drugs, you are so mentally distorted that you cannot think properly about your path. The only thing is that when healing occurs, you can choose again to learn from your mistakes and handle things in a different way.

But at the same time, our biggest "mistake" was going to the doctor because we did not feel well and got a very dangerous drug instead of the real help we came for and might have expected... Afterwrds it is easy to understand that the solution was not in a bottle of pills. But we neither could have a clue that these pills were no real "medicine" but a physically and mentally destructive harddrug. But after all we are here now and must move on.

Holocause-survivor Martin Gray tells: "A man can rebuild his life, even on ruins". And together with the teachings of Tolls, I will cling to that.

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Claudius

I COULD NOT EDIT THIS POST ANYMORE BUT WILL POST THE EDITED VERSION BELOW

 

This is interesting indeed. While the thought that is has been orchstrated by the Universe is a way of giving it some meaning, I just cannot believe EVERYthing has a meaning. I know that years of my life have been pure hell due to this drug and did me and my family much grief and made me act like an idiot. And that many people lost their lifes to it.

Not everything is "meant to be". And while under the influence or in the WD of these drugs, you are so mentally distorted that you cannot think properly about your path.

And there MUSt be people who now serve a sentence in jail because of the thins they did in WD, and maybe even suffer now in prison without access to the drug for tapering correctly or, more likely, not being aware of the fact their behaviour was caused by it.

What has been the "meaning" for them? What about all those lifes being destroyed because of these drugs? Is there a bigger meaning to that? I still cannot see that.

The only thing is that when healing occurs, you can choose again to learn from your mistakes and handle things in a different way.

But at the same time, our biggest "mistake" was going to the doctor because we did not feel well and got a very dangerous drug instead of the real help we came for and might have expected... Afterwrds it is easy to understand that the solution was not in a bottle of pills. But we neither could have a clue that these pills were no real "medicine" but a physically and mentally destructive harddrug. But after all we are here now and must move on.

Holocause-survivor Martin Gray tells: "A man can rebuild his life, even on ruins". And together with the teachings of Tolls, I will cling to that.

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Healing

I think this "everything is meant to be" question is a complicated one, Claudius, and I certainly don't know the answer. At this point, my best guess is that there is a combination of forces at work -- a universal intelligence (which may be evolving), our own free will, a bit of random accident -- and these forces influence each other.

 

Personally, I don't tend to believe that the universal intelligence wants us to suffer or teaches us by purposely putting painful lessons in our path. What I'm thinking is it may be more like we have a mission that we're supposed to be true to, and if we get too far off track, things go worse and worse for us. Not as punishment, but just because things don't work well when you're not on track.

 

Would you consider reading my "Kundalini & shamanic initiatory illness" topic? It offers one perspective on why things might be hard for awhile on their way to being repaired. I'd like to know what you think.

 

You are very focused on the issue of making mistakes. You feel badly about the mistakes you think you've made, the mistakes the doctors and Big Pharma made, the mistakes that others have made while unwittingly influenced by the drugs. I certainly share your anger and frustration about these meds and their vast impact. But there is a perfectionism in your outlook that assumes that mistakes should never happen in the first place, as opposed to your life and humanity and the universe being an on evolutionary path.

 

St. Augustine wrote: "God judged it better to bring good out of evil, than to suffer no evil to exist."

 

Let's keep talking!

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Rhiannon

I have read some of Tolle's work. For me another person whose writing has resonated greatly, around this subject, is Pema Chodron. Her book When Things Fall Apart has been very helpful to me over the years, as well as other writing by her. She and Tolle have some similar teachings about being present in Now time I think, but she's a Buddhist monk so in other ways her teachings are quite different.

 

She has helped me with what is apparently my main spiritual path this lifetime, which is learning to tread the path of compassion and the open heart. I feel that this is the main lesson of this lifetime for me--opening my heart to life unconditionally, by choice, in spite of great suffering and injustice.

 

Still very much a work in progress. I get very cranky about everything sometimes.

 

Yes, I think that suffering, and particularly unfair senseless suffering, can force us to reach for and deepen our spiritual resources.

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summer

I have two of Pema Chodron's books on my nightstand.... Awakening Loving-Kindness and Start Where You Are.

 

I haven't been reading very much... concentrating is not something I do easily these days. However, her books are soothing and kind... if that makes any sense. I read a few pages at a time... too difficult to take in at one time.

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Claudius

I have not read Perna Chodron but the books are for sale even in Dutch. It appears that she advocates the "mindfullness" "principle which in essence is good.

My problem with all spiritual/Buddhist orienteated books, including Tolle, is that they do not address the ultimate horror of SSRI withdrawal. And of course that is not their fault or shortcoming. But we as SSRI victims cannot just step out our negative thinking or misery, or put a line under our old habits and patterns.

Already in early WD, in 2008, I was very determined to embrace spiritual pirincipes and leaved the meds and psychiatry behind. I was ready with the Paxil, but clearly the Paxil was not ready with me... :( And though I bought some good books in 2008, when WD worsened they had no meaning for me and the devilish force of WD and the debilitating WD symptoms ruled my life for almost 2 years before the first window-like moments occured.

And that makes our cases so sad. Sometimes I feel that the PAxil has just ruined my brain so much that a spiritual life is out of reach. But I know at the same time that other people with even worse injuries get a lot of power from it.

I just will use the teachings as much as I can, read the books when I feel I can digest the message and if not, look out for the next window that will come one day. Now after 3.5 years I really hope I have seen the worst...

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Healing

Claudius -- I agree with you. There are times in this harrowing journey when nothing works. I strongly believe that, and I think it's most merciful to acknowledge that, not sugarcoat it. There are times when all you can do is endure, maybe surrender. Then, at other times, it becomes possible to use various ideas, people, supplements, therapies, etc. The more time passes post-taper, the more often you can find help. But, the dirty truth is that, just when you need it most, is when help is least likely to work.

 

It occurs to me that you might find it interesting to read about descent experiences. There is fiction and non-fiction about the archetypal human experience of going through some kind of deep, terrible, long period when there is no help. It's also called The Hero's Journey. Stories about this kind of experience are found in the earliest writings of humanity.

 

I will try to start a new topic with some introductory ideas about The Descent Experience.

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Neuroplastic

There are times in this harrowing journey when nothing works. I strongly believe that, and I think it's most merciful to acknowledge that, not sugarcoat it. There are times when all you can do is endure, maybe surrender. Then, at other times, it becomes possible to use various ideas, people, supplements, therapies, etc. The more time passes post-taper, the more often you can find help. But, the dirty truth is that, just when you need it most, is when help is least likely to work.

That's precisely it. It's taken me some time before I realized that so called "surrender" doesn't always mean... "surrender". In the state of a c/t WD sometimes the only thing that helps you to keep on fighting is... surrendering, or, should I say, accepting your state. Very often, any attempt at trying to push, to change, to improve, works just the opposite. Before long, seeing it doesn't work in the least, it turns out you're just adding insult to injury. At some point, though, each of us reaches the moment when the change is possible (the brain is healed enough), and then more alternatives are open. At the risk of applying a simplistic simile here, I'd compare pushing someone who's in the state of a dire nero-impairment to change their ways of thinking to telling someone without legs to walk.

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Razzle

I had a great personal awareness one day when in total crisis of this process. Out of all creation only man has the option to be out of harmony - to live in a false self or ego.

 

Flowers only do what flowers do and they grow and bloom at precisely their appointed time. Rain only falls when physical conditions are right and the sun rises at an exact predictable time. Everything functions exactly as it is in its true essence.

 

We being creatures with a cortex and free will can live lives out of congruence and harmony with both ourselves and with creation. We can create mental constructs that have no bearing on reality. Many of us who came from stressful families learned to alter reality in our minds to survive....then continued the maladaptive process into adulthood.

 

While I have had a lifelong anxiety condition I do not have a mental disorder. Had I had better information and a safe place to start my life I would have made different choices. Had I lived with full consciousness in my body instead of my mind/false self I would have seen the warning signs of breakdown. Had I not had the rebellion of ego I would have been better connected to my internal spirit and perhaps a greater spirit. I might have had the guidance of the Still Small Voice and not my fears and adverse willed determination.

 

So when my years of this reality took a toll on my body, nervous system and life the only road map I was given was chemicals. Accepted, doctor approved chemicals - if my life was descending into the abyss before this greased the slope.

 

So now I am compelled to learn the painful lessons I should have before...and to do it with a drug damaged nervous system. None of my old pieces fit and my nervous systems is so wrecked creating a new life is a Herculean effort. At this point it is change, hold on or perish!!

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Claudius

Razzle I cannot express it better than you do! I will read your message over next days and recognize so many of it! Being stuck in emotional patterns and pressure and given drugs from your doctor which indeed only make thge slope downhill even greasier... And now the point of Change has finally come to us, albeit in a very scary and forcing way.

Much healing to you!

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Razzle

Healing to you also Caldius - this is a journey that seems without end

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