Scotteves: need advice for Cymbalta withdrawal

[Scotteves]

I'm not feeling better. I still shake, super anxious and my heart thumps all day. I really want to move back up in my cymbalta dose. What's the worse that would happen if I did? Wouldn't I feel better because my body would adjust to where I was at before?

[Scotteves]

From July to October I tapered from 30mg to 22.5mg. I'm still suffering horribly from anxiety, shakiness, and my heart thumping 24/7. What theoretically could happen when you up your dose again? I'm thinking about going back to 25mg. Keep in mind, I don't care about coming off these meds... I'll do so years from now when my nervous system calms down from my benzo withdrawal. I just want to stop suffering and feel normal again, at least for a while. 

 

Thank you!

[primekittycat]

It looks like you increased to 22.5mg in early October - is that what your dose has been since? I saw that you missed a dose one day, that can throw me off for a week, and if you were still having other symptoms, it's possible that it set you back a bit. If you are really suffering and haven't seen ANY improvent (as Alto said, record your symptoms each day), and you haven't upped the dose since October, I'd consider upping the dose just a little. Remember you might not feel better for about a week. 

[Altostrata]

On 12/23/2018 at 1:05 PM, Scotteves said:

I was starting to feel slightly better a couple of weeks ago but then I missed a dose and it threw off my schedule. Feeling absolutely terrible. What would happen if I slowly went back up on my dose? I'd be happy to never come off this medication, as long as it makes me feel better in the near future. I've been suffering for 22 months from benzo and ssri withdrawal. I need relief now or I'm going to die. I can't go on like this. 

 

Did "slightly better" include a reduction in the heart thumping?

 

Yes, skipping a dose can rock the boat pretty badly.

 

How are you measuring your Cymbalta dose? What time of day do you take it? What are your symptoms before and after you take it? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

These notes will indicate if the Cymbalta is causing an adverse reaction. If so, you will not want to increase the dosage.

 

[ChessieCat]

21 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

Example:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[Scotteves]

That's correct - my heart pounding isn't as bad as it was but it's still pounding. The anxiety, however, almost feels worse. 

 

The time of day of my symptoms has been changing. Right now the mornings have been the worst and very gradually let's up as the day goes on. Sometimes it gets worse at night though so who knows.

 

Yesterday:

 

Woke up 9am and felt fine

10am severe shakiness and terror

1030am breakfast

1pm take 22.5mg of cymbalta everyday at this time 

130 lunch 

4pm terror starts to lift a little bit 

430 snack

730 dinner

9pm start feeling normal

11pm feel pretty close to 100% but have ptsd from feeling like hell!

 

Woke up today in terror right off the bat. 

 

 

 

[Scotteves]

Anyone? What happens when you go back up a little in dose after a few months? Does it make symptoms worse or will I get some relief?

[ChessieCat]

On 1/3/2019 at 8:25 AM, Altostrata said:

 

These notes will indicate if the Cymbalta is causing an adverse reaction.

 

If so, you will not want to increase the dosage.

 

 

We need to see a few days of symptom notes to see if there is a pattern.

 

Please do not change your dose at this time.  If you change anything then you will need to start again with the symptom notes and it will take longer to work out what is happening.

[Scotteves]

There isn't a pattern at all except feeling better later at night usually. I certainly don't feel better or worse after taking the cymbalta. I just want to know what happens when you go back up in dose a bit after you haven't tapered in months. No one seems to know. 

 

[ChessieCat]

28 minutes ago, Scotteves said:

There isn't a pattern at all except feeling better later at night usually.

 

Sometimes others can see a pattern that you don't.  Alto has been doing this for many years.

 

When we are feeling awful it can be difficult to see/feel minor improvement/change.  Try and be as specific as possible with your notes.  Write actual symptoms and levels of symptoms each day, not your "assumption" of the symptom/level.  Objective not subjective.

[Scotteves]

I've been doing this for 23 months in severe withdrawals from benzos and cymbalta. I scrutinize every little thing I do, eat, and how I sleep. My anxiety and rage has only gotten worse since my taper crash. Taking notes has been useless for me. I just want to know what happens when people increase their dose after the "3 week window"?

[ChessieCat]

On 1/3/2019 at 8:25 AM, Altostrata said:

 

How are you measuring your Cymbalta dose? What time of day do you take it? What are your symptoms before and after you take it? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

These notes will indicate if the Cymbalta is causing an adverse reaction. If so, you will not want to increase the dosage.

 

 

Alto is this site's owner and has requested the above.  She wouldn't be asking for it without a good reason.  She is trying to help you and is concerned that you are having an adverse reaction to Cymbalta.  "If so, you will not want to increase the dosage."

 

If you are having an adverse reaction then increasing the dosage might make things worse.

 

If you are not having an adverse reaction, waiting another few days before trying a small increase is not going to make much difference.

 

I understand that you are probably feeling impatient, want to do something and that you want answers now.  Unfortunately it is going to take a few days before your notes can be assessed.  You will need to be patient during this time.

[Scotteves]

It's not the cymbalta that's making me feel worse. I felt great before I tapered it. I also feel no different after I take it. Also, do they know about being in benzo withdrawal at the same time and how that affects your nervous system? 

[ChessieCat]

35 minutes ago, Scotteves said:

Also, do they know about being in benzo withdrawal at the same time and how that affects your nervous system?  

 

Yes, we have a benzo forum.

[ChessieCat]

9 hours ago, Scotteves said:

 

10am severe shakiness and terror

1030am breakfast

1pm take 22.5mg of cymbalta everyday at this time 

130 lunch 

4pm terror starts to lift a little bit 

 

 

Cymbalta has a short half life of about 12 hours.  From your notes it looks like you may be experiencing interdose withdrawal.  I've alerted the other mods to this.

 

Because of this you might find that taking your dose 12 hours apart will help.

 

It is generally better to move 1/2 of the dose by 1 hour each day.  Because you are taking it at 1pm on the first day you could take 1/2 dose half an hour earlier (12.30pm) and the other 1/2 half an hour later (1.30pm) and keep doing that until they are 12 hours apart.

[Scotteves]

I don't think it's interdose withdrawal. I had many of the same patterns after stopping the benzos. Usually always get my windows later at night - think that has something to do with cortisol levels.

 

Is shaking, heart pounding and extreme rage/anxiety common 3 months after a taper?

[ChessieCat]

If it was me, the first thing I would be doing is splitting the dose.  That is the easiest thing to test.

[Scotteves]

Splitting doses can be a dangerous game and would definitely set me back. It leads to more dependence as well. I may just go back up a tiny bit but my nervous system is insanely overstimulated from benzo and perhaps the cymbalta withdrawal. Anything can set you off when your nervous system is upregulated. I'm surprised people recommend things on here like supplements or don't understand all the diet restrictions - low carbs, sugar, zero alcohol, zero caffeine. I thought these were well known rules for improving symptoms. 

[Altostrata]

You can try a little bit more and see if it helps. How about 25mg? How are you measuring your Cymbalta dose?

[Scotteves]

I go to a compounding pharmacy for the prescriptions. 

 

What happens when you do go back up? Does it upregulate your nervous system more? 

[Scotteves]

I'm holding at 22.5mg as long as I can but my body isn't stabilizing. I'm shaking and having intense anger, anxiety and heart pounding almost 3.5 months since my last taper. It's strange that my vision issues and nausea got a lot better but I feel way worse mentally. Will I feel like this for years? Even with all my setbacks in benzo withdrawal, I felt a lot better after 15 months. How can my body deal with all this stress? Does if manifest in cancer or heart problems?

[Scotteves]

Has anyone here tried Niacin in large doses (flushing)? It's very sedating after a few hours but not sure if that sets us back or not. 

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on this site.  I like to use google and add survvingantidepressants.org to my search term. 

 

Doing that found this topic:  vitamin-b3-niacin-niacinamide

 

EDITED TO ADD:  Be sure to read all the posts.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by ChessieCat

[Altostrata]

On 1/4/2019 at 3:43 PM, Scotteves said:

I'm holding at 22.5mg as long as I can but my body isn't stabilizing. I'm shaking and having intense anger, anxiety and heart pounding almost 3.5 months since my last taper. It's strange that my vision issues and nausea got a lot better but I feel way worse mentally. Will I feel like this for years? Even with all my setbacks in benzo withdrawal, I felt a lot better after 15 months. How can my body deal with all this stress? Does if manifest in cancer or heart problems?

 

Hello, Scott. Did you consider this?

On 1/3/2019 at 11:51 PM, Altostrata said:

You can try a little bit more and see if it helps. How about 25mg? How are you measuring your Cymbalta dose?

 

To my knowledge, antidepressant withdrawal does not lead to cancer. There are types of arrhythmia that could result. However,  a pounding heartbeat is not unusual in withdrawal syndrome.

[Scotteves]

Is the constant pounding normal this far out though since the last taper? It's been nearly 4 months. 

 

It seems as though many people get cancer in WD, at least on the benzo forums, but not sure if that's a coincidence. What sort of lasting health issues did you have caused by WD, if you don't mind me asking?

[Rezten]

5 hours ago, Scotteves said:

the constant pounding normal this far out though since the last taper? It's been nearly 4 months.

Hi Scott,

 

I was having constant heart palpitations and higher than myvnormal HR, vibrating feeling in my chest.  I started a low histimine diet and within a few days these symptoms subsided a lot and I think maybe a week out or so they were gone.  I hope this helps.

[Scotteves]

Rezten what foods do you eat or try to stay away from in particular? How long did you have the heart pounding for?

 

 

10 minutes ago, Rezten said:

Hi Scott,

 

I was having constant heart palpitations and higher than myvnormal HR, vibrating feeling in my chest.  I started a low histimine diet and within a few days these symptoms subsided a lot and I think maybe a week out or so they were gone.  I hope this helps.

 

[Rezten]

1 minute ago, Scotteves said:

Rezten what foods do you eat or try to stay away from in particular? How long did you have the heart pounding for?

The palpitations had been sporadic for months and eventually were constant. That's when I mentioned it on this site and read the section about palpitations on this site.  It was recommended I try an elimination diet.  I think Alto or someone gave you a link to this earlier but if not just Google elimination diet or low histimine diet. It will explain what to do and eat. Its helped me a lot.  It's boring, but better than being more destabilized than I already am.

[Scotteves]

Ok got it. I do eat spinach and avocado so perhaps I could cut back on those. Otherwise, I pretty much  stick to proteins and veggies at the moment. 

[Rezten]

6 minutes ago, Scotteves said:

, I pretty much  stick to proteins and veggies at the moment. 

Nightshade veggies like tomato and green peppers are high histimine 

[Scotteves]

Are antihistamines ok to take? Ones that don't cross the blood brain barrier?

[ChessieCat]

Q:  What is the reason you are considering an antihistamine?

 

histamine-food-intolerance

 

allergies-sneezing-stuffed-up-antihistamines-and-what-to-use-for-allergy-relief

 

antihistamines-for-withdrawal-insomnia-diphenhydramine-doxylamine-hydroxyzine

[Scotteves]

Food intolerance. They made me feel better in benzo withdrawal, however, I'm worried about taking them in cymbalta withdrawal. Not sure if regular (not Benadryl) affects serotonin.

[Altostrata]

Your usual antihistamines don't help in food intolerance. If you have histamine intolerance, the histamine is in the food, an antihistamine doesn't touch that, it reduces the histamines your cells produce.

 

Food intolerance is a different animal from food allergy.

[Scotteves]

Hey guys so you can see my details below. I haven't tapered since October and I'm really no further ahead than I was 5 months ago. Still feel terrible most of the time and decided to start tapering again because I just need to get off of this. I'm currently at 22.5mg of duloxetine. I have some questions...

 

1. Is the counting bead method accurate? Not all beads are equal in size and not sure what is filler. I count and weigh the pills after to make sure it's as accurate as possible. Is weighing better?

2. Should I cross over to Effexor?

3. Would taking pure CBD help or hurt? Please take into account that I also have benzo withdrawal syndrome on top of this. 

 

History

Started 30mg of duloxetine in November 2016. Had previously cold turkeyed Celexa about 5 years earlier. Also cold turkeyed a benzodiazepine I took on and off for 2 months and have been going through benzo withdrawal syndrome since Feb 2017. Started tapering duloxetine in July 2018 at 10% a month. I got down to 22.5mg and had a massive crash, of which the symptoms haven't gotten much better since. I haven't tapered since. 

 

[ChessieCat]

I've moved you post to your Introduction topic.  This keeps your history in one place.  Please continue to ask questions about your own situation, update and journal your progress here.  Please also remember to update your signature whenever you make a change.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

10 hours ago, Scotteves said:

Is the counting bead method accurate? Not all beads are equal in size and not sure what is filler. I count and weigh the pills after to make sure it's as accurate as possible. Is weighing better?

 

Tips for tapering off Cymbalta (duloxetine)

 

You can also do a search for members taking the same drug to see how they are tapering.

 

10 hours ago, Scotteves said:

Should I cross over to Effexor?

 

Generally it is not a good idea to change drugs.  You can end up getting withdrawal from Drug A and/or start up/side effects/bad reaction from Drug B.  You won't know what is causing any issues.

 

10 hours ago, Scotteves said:

Would taking pure CBD help or hurt? Please take into account that I also have benzo withdrawal syndrome on top of this. 

 

If you do try anything, it is suggested that you try a very small amount to see how you respond.  Also keep notes.  Remember to only make one change at a time.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

cannabis-marijuana-thc-and-cbd-or-hemp-oil

 

The only supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and  Omega-3 Fish Oil.  Try a small amount one at a time.