Nikki: hi, my rundown with ADs

[Nikki]

Schuyler....thanks for answering. I am working today. After that I would like to lay down. Quite dizzy this morning.

 

I guess I really shouldn't taper at this point in time. Between my daughter's drama and me rebuilding my life it is more of a struggle than I expected.

 

I love her dearly and she is one of the smartest people I know, but her life is in turmoil bringing my life into the drama. Some of it boils down to choices. MOst of it is emotional pain brought on my her father. He enjoys mentally and verbally tormenting people. I have been telling her to let go or get dragged and she can't.

 

She has an autoimmune disease of the bladder. Interstial Cystitis. She is in remission right now. For the last 2 years she suffered terribly with it and became addicted to pain medication. She weaned herself off of it. It did interfere with her college.

 

Her choice in boyfriends is very poor. One loser after the next. I am not crazy over her friends, never have been. There is alot more.

 

Not a week goes by without something happening. Some of it like last week, the retarant she was working at closed suddenly. I felt terible for her. As a result this week I paid her bills.

 

I can't do this and taper at the same time.

 

Will be back later on.....thanks

[Skyler]

I can't do this and taper at the same time.

 

Will be back later on.....thanks

 

You may need to identify what is real life anxiety and what is withdrawal induced anxiety. IMHO, it's pretty easy to attribute RL stuff to withdrawal and this is part of the withdrawal challenge. Mindfulness techniques are good with withdrawal anxiety.

 

Have you tried getting counseling to help you with you daughter. Maybe her penchant for chaos is the issue more than individual crises. At her age, her father's message is now embedded, so it is hers as well. Do you think you would benefit from insulating yourself from her strum and drang? ~S

[Nikki]

Hi S and thanks for responding....

 

It is quite difficult while tapering to differentiate between RL stressors and a taper. My closest friend who knows me better than I do said..."in order not be affected by your daughter's life, you would have to take volumes of drugs".

 

For me, tapering causes me to obsess over how I feel > leads to obsessing over problems > which leads to more mental chatter.

 

For me, when not tapering I will cry ~ obsess over my daughter's chaos/behavior > talk to friends, try to reason things out > and then ultimately let go. The difference is I am not experiencing WD symptoms, just my daughter and the anxiety & sadness it produces.

 

Is it possible that this portion of WD will pass and I will stabilize???? I was hoping to have felt better with each day....not happening

 

Thank goodness we have each other

 

PS my cuts were .4mgs. or .2mL each tiny drop. Five altogether according to the marks on the syringe.

 

Hugs

[Barbarannamated]

Nikki,

Here to offer support in whatever you decide is best for you at this time. The last stressor we need is guilting ourselves regarding updosing. It's easy to see and focus on the drugs that others have discontinued, but not see that many are still on something. We all share the desire to be off of everything, but please try not to beat yourself up if your taper plan needs slight tweaking.

{{{HUGS}}}

B

[annej]

Hi Nikki,

 

Just wanted to say hello and offer my support.

 

I have done my fair share of suffering over my adult daughter's (now 24) emotional angst. (Eating disorder - resolved, poor choice in friends/boyfriends getting better, general "sulky attitude" on and off).

 

I have now come to the point where I can see how some of my "rescue" attempts caused a lot of learned helplessness with respect to my daughter. It's so hard to know when to step in and when to back off. For me, guilt and an over-developed sense of responsibility and a need to "fix" things fueled my actions. I think it is very average to want to try to help our children overcome their difficulties.

 

It was not until I got so very ill that I was forced to stop trying to control/fix/analyze my daughter and allow her to flounder a bit on her own. Naturally, I was terrified as to what might happen if I did not go in for the rescue. Turns out, nothing bad happened. My daughter began to pick up the reins and make some very important and healthy decisions for herself. One of the decisions she made on her own was to get into counseling and she started taking yoga classes. I see big improvements in her every day.

 

It's amazes me that so many things I did that I thought were helpful were actually making both of us worse. Hugs, Annej

[Altostrata]

Nikki, maybe you should go back to 38.2mg and stabilize. Seems you were okay there.

[Nikki]

That's an idea Alto....thanks

[Nikki]

I did updose the Celexa last night and woke feeling so much better. What a difference. I guess my story shows how bad WD can be, even in small cuts as some of us are so sensitive.

 

Rhi in another post you mentioned that those of us who have taken a number of meds (even if they were done individually) don't really get away with an easy taper.

I totally agree. I can see that here with some many members who were prescribed too many meds.

 

As for me....I can't seem to function mentally or emotionally during a taper. WD gets a hold of me and destroys everything I have worked so hard to turn around. The wires in my head are completely 'unplugged' from tapering.

 

For the last (3) years I have been rebuilding my life. There were many challenges along the way. I survived them. I am just starting to see that 'success' is in my future. I work towards that goal daily & wish to keep my eyes on the prize.

 

I work on myself daily in a spiritual way. As I've said, I am in Al-Anon which is for friends/families of alcoholics for 16 years. I am currently working the 12 Steps in Al-Anon. It's hard work doing an inventory, but I know so many people in AA and Al-Anon who have done the Steps and it paid off in many ways. I am on Step Six with a Sponsor.

 

I pray alot. Have wonderful friends. I read alot of self help books.

 

I do all of this work and when tried to taper from Celexa and the Imipramine it felt like all of this went out the window due to the effects of WD. I lose my mind and myself from drug WD.

 

I think a large part of anxiety for me is wanting my daughter to have a good life and make better choices. When she brings drama into my home it sets off anxiety Big Time.

Hopefully she will be getting her own place in the fall/winter.

 

I really do need to live alone and practice self-care.

 

My biggest challenge that I am working on is to Change The Way I Think. Not an easy task. I cannot do this while withdrawing.

 

I don't know if I will go back up to the original 40mgs. of Celexa. Right now I think I am at 39. I can't do this. The thought of reliving another WD gives me anxiety. Who knows maybe in a month I may be able to drop .4mg and be okay. At that rate it could take years to get off Celexa which is something I am not pleased about either.

 

Thank you so much for helping me out.....appreciate it so so much.....

 

Celeste aka Nikki

 

Don't know if I will ever be drug-free and not sure if I should be.

[Barbarannamated]

Nikki,

So glad you are feeling better. Quite honestly, if I knew what would help me function right now, I'd probably give it a shot.

B

[Nikki]

Hi Barb:

 

Barb is Klonopin the only drug you are on? And your last AD was Pristiq which you finished in 2011?

 

If I have this right than your Pristiq episode may still be affecting you. I've never taken it. It seems to give long term symptoms. The good news is that was a year ago...

 

You've been thru hell and have stressors at home as well. Like you said 'what came first the chicken or the egg?'.

 

Barb I do believe depression is a disease and a serious one at that. There is concrete proof that there are DNA markers for anxiety/depression/melanoma, etc.

It seems to run in families. Is it the DNA or the way we were raised? Maybe for some people it is both.

 

Basically I am glad there are medications out there and they have helped alot of people. However, for me I fell into the Paxil Cover-Up. None of us knew back in 1990-2000 that we (on Paxil) would be so deeply affected, which set us up the Merry-Go-Round.

 

My mother tells me to forget about all of that and focus on how I feel today. Not to mess around with them (for now), and continue to keep moving forward.

 

Truthfully, right now I wish I had stayed on a small amount of Celexa and a small amount of Imipramine. Again that is looking back in regret or maybe just hindsight.

 

I need to take this one day at a time and feel better.

 

Nikki

[annej]

I did updose the Celexa last night and woke feeling so much better. What a difference. I guess my story shows how bad WD can be, even in small cuts as some of us are so sensitive.

 

Rhi in another post you mentioned that those of us who have taken a number of meds (even if they were done individually) don't really get away with an easy taper.

I totally agree. I can see that here with some many members who were prescribed too many meds.

 

As for me....I can't seem to function mentally or emotionally during a taper. WD gets a hold of me and destroys everything I have worked so hard to turn around. The wires in my head are completely 'unplugged' from tapering.

 

For the last (3) years I have been rebuilding my life. There were many challenges along the way. I survived them. I am just starting to see that 'success' is in my future. I work towards that goal daily & wish to keep my eyes on the prize.

 

I work on myself daily in a spiritual way. As I've said, I am in Al-Anon which is for friends/families of alcoholics for 16 years. I am currently working the 12 Steps in Al-Anon. It's hard work doing an inventory, but I know so many people in AA and Al-Anon who have done the Steps and it paid off in many ways. I am on Step Six with a Sponsor.

 

I pray alot. Have wonderful friends. I read alot of self help books.

 

I do all of this work and when tried to taper from Celexa and the Imipramine it felt like all of this went out the window due to the effects of WD. I lose my mind and myself from drug WD.

 

I think a large part of anxiety for me is wanting my daughter to have a good life and make better choices. When she brings drama into my home it sets off anxiety Big Time.

Hopefully she will be getting her own place in the fall/winter.

 

I really do need to live alone and practice self-care.

 

My biggest challenge that I am working on is to Change The Way I Think. Not an easy task. I cannot do this while withdrawing.

 

I don't know if I will go back up to the original 40mgs. of Celexa. Right now I think I am at 39. I can't do this. The thought of reliving another WD gives me anxiety. Who knows maybe in a month I may be able to drop .4mg and be okay. At that rate it could take years to get off Celexa which is something I am not pleased about either.

 

Thank you so much for helping me out.....appreciate it so so much.....

 

Celeste aka Nikki

 

Don't know if I will ever be drug-free and not sure if I should be.

 

Dear Nikki,

 

I am so glad to hear that you are feeling better today.

 

I can relate to the feeling of needing to live by oneself. My daughter is moving out very soon and we are both happy about this!

 

Hugs, Annej

[Barbarannamated]

Nikki,

 

It is very real, indeed, and likely caused by many factors as you mentioned. Unfortunately, none of the drugs yet address the causes though they may provide relief to some. I'm probably ultra-skeptical because I never had benefit from the SS/NRIs or several antipsychotics used to "augment" SS/NRIs. I knew it, but didnt trust my instincts and continued on drugs that worsened the underlying endocrine failure. (Sorry, I feel like a broken record!) My endocrinologist confirmed what I thought for years: serotonin was worsening me by inhibition of dopamine (simplified version). He's just trying to mitigate the long term consequences now - dementia, cardiac, diabetes, osteoporosis, Parkinsons.

 

I keep reiterating this because I dont want ANYONE to be dismissed by medicine as "just depressed" or "just a chronic pain patient" and thrown into the infamous trashcan.

 

My mother has been suffering with extremely low energy and chronic pain for most of my life. I have no doubt that we share the same genetic markers that predispose us to similar conditions that have been dismissed as depression/chronic pain all of my life. My mother has advanced metastatic carcinoma (pancreatic), diagnosed this past week. Ive suspected for years that there was something more going on but I didnt push hard enough (and they trusted doctors). Not that cancer treatment/chemo is better...

 

Sorry to spew on your thread, Nikki. I will do just about anything to prevent precious friends like you and anyone here from going through this dismissive and DEADLY mistreatment.

 

I agree COMPLETELY that the biochemical processes going on in some cases cannot be countered by all of the positive thinking or therapy in the world. When one has a deficit or misfiring in the reward circuitry, it is impossible to experience pleasure or anticipate anything good unless it's extreme. When one cant experience pleasure, there is nothing to balance the lows/downs. I believe this may have something to do with the tardive dysphoria - late and ongoing persistent low mood - caused by serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

 

Oh dear... I'll step down from my soapbox now. Alto, please edit this at your discretion!

[Nikki]

"misfiring in the reward circuitry" Barb

 

This sums it all up. We all have a misfiring of out circuitry particularly in WD.

 

Barb I did go back up to 40mgs. tonight. I just can't do this right now. I was at least hoping to get down to 30mgs. Celexa which I think is a more reasonable dose. It's hard to believe that getting down 10mgs. could be so trying.

 

Not sure when I will make the decision to taper once again. For now I need to keep things simple and not rock the misfiring circuitry for a good spell.

 

I do know from Lexapro that repeated attempts at tapering can cause poop-out. Not willing to risk that either at this point in time.

 

Time for bed

[Nikki]

I did not have bruxism before ssri's....I didn't have it on a tricyclic.

 

The RLS well I experienced it big time on paxil and lexapro. And not again on Celexa, but not as bad.

 

When I dropped the Celexa (2mgs) I immediately had insomnia. I went back up 2mgs. and I tremendous difficulty falling asleep.

 

For the last week or so, after I fall asleep I get woken up. Usually by my daughter, the dogs, this morning a fire truck. This interruption has been going on for a good 10 days and I am ready to scream. I am beyond tired and feel lousy.

 

Just sayin....

[Barbarannamated]

{{HUGS}}

 

I'm sorry you're having lifestress. Do you experience STRESS and ANXIETY differently? Just curious as to how others differentiate the two. Stress to me has a defined trigger and, hopefully, expiration date (meeting, test, etc.). Anxiety is vague - ongoing and hard to define or deal with. Stress - I'm very familiar with

[Nikki]

Blunting is what I think it's called. On this dose of Celexa I notice it is stopping the crying that I was experiencing for the last few years.

 

In a way it has been a relief to stop crying. I still wake with the lovely AM anxiety, but I am not depressed.

 

Soooo I know that this is still too high of a dose. I was watching a stand up with Steve Harvey and I was hysterical laughing. If you need to laugh go on youtube and pull up a good comedian....

 

When I watch Wyonna sing "I Want To Know What Love Is" I cry, so maybe I should do that....

 

The Bruxism at this dose if extreme. Have got to try another taper....just don't have the drive to do it.

 

My BFF had to rush her husband to the hospital to have emergency open heart surgery and he is not expected to live. I will be spending the day with her in the hospital.

 

Please send some prayers their way. Who knows, when I see them the tears may start rolling. Love them both very much.

 

Warm, fuzzy hugs on this rainy day

[Skyler]

Thinking of you today.. Schuyler

[Nikki]

Schuyler....

 

Where do you get these hysterical Emoticons? They are fun...

[Barbarannamated]

Nikki,

 

Im sorry about your friend's hubby. How is he doing?

 

(((Hugs)))

[Skyler]

Schuyler....

 

Where do you get these hysterical Emoticons? They are fun...

 

Hi Nikki.. best to find a message from me to quote so I get an alert.. sometimes I lose track and just happened across this. For emoticons, go here. And something I just learned, click on one and it will take you there!

 

Very bad news about your friend's hubby. Sounds like you are a big solace to her. All the best. ~S

[Nikki]

My friends husband did not do well with the surgery. His heart was badly damaged from the heart attack. Thank you all for asking. The doctor said it is 50-50.

His kidneys went out as well.

 

She may have to stop the respirator. They have had a lovely marriage. I am spending alot of time with her.

 

This woman has held my hand thru many of life's events including WD.

 

As for Celexa....still sitting on the fence.

 

[Barbarannamated]

I'm sorry, Nikki.

 

{{{HUGS}}}

[meistersinger]

My friends husband did not do well with the surgery. His heart was badly damaged from the heart attack. Thank you all for asking. The doctor said it is 50-50.

His kidneys went out as well.

 

She may have to stop the respirator. They have had a lovely marriage. I am spending alot of time with her.

 

This woman has held my hand thru many of life's events including WD.

 

As for Celexa....still sitting on the fence.

 

 

My sympathy to your friend.

[Skyler]

My friends husband did not do well with the surgery. His heart was badly damaged from the heart attack. Thank you all for asking. The doctor said it is 50-50.

His kidneys went out as well.

 

She may have to stop the respirator. They have had a lovely marriage. I am spending alot of time with her.

 

This woman has held my hand thru many of life's events including WD.

 

As for Celexa....still sitting on the fence.

 

I'm very sorry to hear he has to be on the respirator and that his heart is so badly damaged. My sincerest wishes are with you Nikki ~S

[Nikki]

Thanks folks...

 

My friend "Joy" has held my hand thru every single aspect of my life. Every WD, medication change, lowering doses, uping doses, doctors, cyring spell, anxiety.

Every step of the WD journey(s) (plural) she was there and so was her husband.

 

This is a friend. I must have driven her nuts with my WD(s). She said no I didn't.

 

My other BFF is in CT, and she held my hand long distance during WD(s). Same thing, I asked her over and over again "Am I driving you crazy" and her answere was always "No, I want to be here for you."

 

I have to look at this as being blessed.

 

And now I have found all of you

[strawberry17]

Hi Nikki

I have just found your thread, about bloomin time really, sorry I didn't find it sooner. I am so sorry about your best friend and her husband What a lovley friend you are to her and she has been to you, friends like that are rare, I have one like that.

Re the Roadback thing, I used to look at that site a lot, I even tried to work out a budget to afford the vitamins etc, then I realised that really it was just exploiting vulnerable people, and I couldn't afford it, especially being in the UK, so I decided a good dollop of common sense was in order, a good multivitamin, high EPA fish oil and magnesium all reasonably priced, a healthy diet with fruit and veg and regular exercise.

I also know what you mean about the drugs having caused more harm than good, I definately feel that way. I'm sorry you've been having such a tough time with withdrawals

Now I'm on your thread I'll get the updates and see how things are going for you.

strawberry

[Nikki]

"Tapering from 5mls prozac since Feb 2008, now down to 1.10mls." Strawberry

 

Can you tell me more about this? I have syringes that are 5mL's, so I can picture you filling yours up to the 5mL mark.

 

With each drop/decrease did you go down to the next line which is .4mgs? And if so, how long did you stay at each line/dose?

 

Wow since 2008. Did you experience WD with each drop ~ or ~ was it like not Withdrawing at all because it was so slow????

 

You have the patience of a Saint I don't

 

I know I need to lower the Celexa at the very least. The thought of taking years to do this frustrates me. I can't imagine being in a state of WD for years on end. That's why I am asking you these questions hoping that this route does not cause WD.

 

Hugs

[strawberry17]

Hi Nikki

Yes I had a 5ml syringe, easy to get from a well known pharmacy in UK, marked with 10 marks between 5ml and 4ml and so on, so it's dead easy to just go to 4.90ml, then 4.80ml, yes I am very patient and pretty disciplined plus I have a husband who knows me inside out, and stops me going too fast, I take about 5-6 weeks between each drop, give or take, and yes the withdrawals are very transient this way, nothing like they were years ago. I think of it as like tricking my body cos it's so slow, slowly slowly catchy monkey. I had so many failures from being impatient and going too fast in the past, this seemed like the only way to do it. Think of it as like being the story of the tortoise and the hare as well? You could spend years and years or the rest of your life going too fast and failing every time, or spend less time in the long run by going this slow, does that make sense? it works for me anyway.

strawberry

[Nikki]

Strawberry I have a 5mL syringe and there are only (5) lines between 5mL and 4mL.

 

I will go to the pharmacy & get a new syringe. If there are only (5) lines then I am taking .4mg drops in dose. Don't know what .4mgs equals in mL.

 

Yes ~ impatient, that's me.

 

OKAY HERE I GO AGAIN

 

Last night dropped down to the first line after 5mL which I think is .4mgs. What would that be in mL's? This conversion boggles my mind.

 

I actually slept well and felt a little better this morning.....

 

Rhi - Shanti - Barb - Alto - Strawberry I need the tortoise vs the hare Pep Talks

[strawberry17]

OK I just checked my syringes, I had a 5ml syringe which was marked with only 1 mark between 4ml and 5ml and I have 1ml syringes which are marked very finely. So for 4.90ml I would measure up to the 4ml mark on my 5ml syringe, then 0.90ml on the 1ml syringe. Of course now I've ditched the 5ml syringes as I'm below 1ml. Oh dear this all sounds complicated I hope I made sense to you? so anyway I think you need a finely marked 1ml syringe.

 

My blog has some tortoise and hare type posts if that helps! You could also study my timeline although that might just depress you

[Karma]

Hi Nikki,

 

I've been out of town and not keeping up with the usual threads. I'm so sorry for the difficulty your BFF is going through - it is very difficult to be in that situation with a loved one. It is a beautiful thing that you are such a supportive friend to her and her husband. Sending you courage and healing energy.

 

Love and light

Karma

[Nikki]

Hi Karma...so nice to hear from you, yes, I was wondering where you were

 

As sad as my friend's situation is, I look at this as my chance to hold her hand and be supportive. This friend has been with me thru all of my medication WD's. Her husband too.

 

She gets it. I cried on her shoulder the same way we vent here and she was always there.

 

As for me.....yep I started another taper. Celexa is contributing to anxiety. Elisabeth just posted something simliar on her thread about Alto.

 

Even if it is not contributing ~ it's not helping.

 

I dropped .2mL and I am okay. Karma I have to be forceful with myself to stick with this drop for a few weeks.

 

I don't know what else to do. If it isn't helping, why bother with it

 

Nikki

[Nikki]

Okay here's my latest tapering update (here we go again )LOL

 

I dropped .2mL using liquid which equals .4mgs. According to my friend who is a retired Psych Nurse this is a miniscule amount. She too takes meds.

 

I did this on Monday June 25th. Immediately felt some relief. Anxiety has lessened.

 

My next drop will be Monday July 9th or 16th by another .2mL.

 

Last time around I dropped .2mL every week and I bottomed out.

 

This time around I am giving myself 2-4 week intervals of staying put.

 

So far so good

 

I've got to tell you, that for me, and a few others, Celexa exacerbated anxiety, particularly at a high dose. Unlike other WD's, the tiniest drop in dose helped relieve anxiety. Crazy....

 

Most importantly ~ and ~ I really want to stress this ~ with the absence or lessening of anxiety I have more clarity on my life, my self esteem is better and I can plan for the future, believe in myself and enjoy looking around at my surroundings. There is a huge shift in attitude.

 

Trust me this is who we are. The effects of medications and in particular the tapering process is what causes the black holes and inability to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Without anxiety or with a small, manageable amount, I can talk to myself in a more postive manner. This is virtually impossible when suffering during a taper.

 

I am praying that this will last and I can stick to a slow, tiny cut taper and continue to live somewhat anxiety free.

[annej]

Hi Nikki,

 

I am delighted to hear that your tapering plan has offered you substantial relief from anxiety!

 

Hugs, AnneJ

[Nikki]

"As of June, 2012: Working on remaining out of fearful thoughts of the future'

 

Annej....this is the absolute worst part of withdrawal. It is an all consuming aspect of a taper. It's what leads us and our physicians into thinking we are at square one again. It feels like a nervous breakdown.

 

Right now, I am feeling like the mental cloud has lifted to a more manageable level.

 

I would love to remain here for the duration of the taper.

 

Sleeping well helps with outlook....

 

Thank your for posting....and how are you doing?

 

Hugs

[xDebbiejo]

Hi nikki

 

It's brill to hear you are doing better, so pleased for you!

It's great to hear positive stuff, it helps others too

 

Take it steady

 

Debbie x