Asi1309: bad withdrawal

[Asi1309]

Hello there!

 

I've been on psychiatric meds from approximately age 17, i'm now 21.

 

I started with CIPRALEX for about 1 year until the poop out, and then tried most antidepressants since they didn't seem to work for me.

 

I've also been on benzos for a short period numerous times, and even on SEROQUEL for about 2 weeks.

 

Tomorrow i'll check with my doc' for my full med history, because i can't remember it all, but for now i'll tell you about my recent withdrawal. 

 

In April of this year i cold turkeyed: 

• 300 mg WELLBUTRIN
• 150 mg SERTALINE 

 

About a month later i cracked and returned to the psych who put me on:

• 100 mg SERTALINE

 

and after more modification from her part i ended up on:

• 10 mg BRINTELLIX
• 5 mg ARIPLY
• 50 mg SERENADA

 

Then about a month later, after reading Peter Breggin books,

 

I've decided to quit once again at 16.7.18 - I've cold turkeyed again.  Not until 2 weeks ago.

 

I've tried to reinstate periodically taking about 3 doses NOT every day of:

• 25 mg SERTALINE .

 

And at 4.10.18 i started official REINSTATEMENT of:

• 25 mg SERTALINE daily.

 

I reduced the dosage since then steadily until i reached today:

• 3.125 mg SERTALINE - because i didn't react well to a larger does and still want to reduce it, since i still don't feel well!

 

I still need to double check the numbers and names, and get myself the medication liquid form, since it not accurate at all, trying to cut it myself.

 

I'm also taking daily:

• Omega 3 supplements + vitamin e 
• magnesium taurate 

 

Thank you your'e an awesome community!

God bless you

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by ChessieCat
formatted for easier reading

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Asi.

 

How are you feeling? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern? How's your sleep?

[Asi1309]

Hi Alto

 

I'm feeling pretty shity right now, I cracked last night and took 50 mg of SERTRALINE, even though I had a severe reaction to even 25 mg and below.

 

I'd supposed to take only ~1.5 mg that day.

 

(since I began reinstating, a week ago, I've gradually reduced the dose from 25mg to 1.5 mg - according to my symptoms).

I'm experiencing bad withdrawal right now, and try to stabilize with reinstatement, it's been a week so far, but it's just a nightmare tbh...

 

Also my sleep have been really bad lately, I wake up daily at first light (about 4:30 am), everyday,  from a nightmare, into anxiety, depression, and full blown panic attack!

 

It's just sucks man.

 

The only peace of mind I get is when I'm asleep, and it's doesn't last much at all, to make things worse.

 

My daily symptom cycle is like:

 

Panic depression and anxiety when waking up, up about ~ 4 hours later, and then it's just fluctuate up and down, not by much, it's generally bad, sometimes less after I eat, and sometimes worse because of triggers (friends, social activities, going outside), and the thought of them.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by ChessieCat
sp

[Asi1309]

Do you guys think my reinstatement is adequate enough?

[Asi1309]

Also I took VABEN 10 MG last night cause panic attack.

[Asi1309]

And another thing...

Do you think I should reinstate the other drugs I took before I cold turkeyd?

[Asi1309]

Also my entire drug history is in >my profile> about me

[Altostrata]

How do you feel after taking 50mg sertraline?

 

How often do you take oxazepam (Vaben)?

[Asi1309]

Actually so far in the reinstatement, there wasn't much relief from withdrawal, but is seems that I cannot tolerate more then few milligrams  or I'll get bad symptoms (physically), from sentesized CNS. 

I only took clonex in May, a couple of times (for emergencies), I don't think I'm withdrawing from it,

And Vaben, I only took once since.

[Altostrata]

Yes, we often see that people can tolerate only a few milligrams.

 

Please be consistent in your dosing. If you're getting withdrawal symptoms, stop tapering for the time being. Avoid taking benzos, they eventually cause a lot of problems.

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

[Asi1309]

My pattern of (physical) symptoms by percent:

90% 4/10/18 ~25 mg - beginning of reinstatement

95% 5/10/18 ~25 mg

100% 6/10/18 ~25 mg

90% 7/10/18 ~12.5 mg

85% 8/10/18 ~12.5 mg

60% 9/10/18 ~6.25 mg

40% 10/10/18 ~3.125 mg

15% 11/10/18 ~1.5 mg + 50 mg in the evening 

50% 12/10/18 - 25 mg + 10 mg VABEN

45% 13/10/18 ~ 12.5 ml/mg

50% 14/10/18 ~ 1 ml/mg 

[Asi1309]

My day begin by waking up stressful and terrorized at about 4:30 am, and about some time later I fall asleep again, and then wake up at 9.

The days are pretty unbearable, and I'm only getting tired and "calm" when  it's bed time. 

 

[Asi1309]

On 10/13/2018 at 9:52 PM, Asi1309 said:

And another thing...

Do you think I should reinstate the other drugs I took before I cold turkeyd?

?

[Altostrata]

On 10/14/2018 at 11:25 AM, Asi1309 said:

My pattern of (physical) symptoms by percent:

90% 4/10/18 ~25 mg - beginning of reinstatement

95% 5/10/18 ~25 mg

100% 6/10/18 ~25 mg

90% 7/10/18 ~12.5 mg

85% 8/10/18 ~12.5 mg

60% 9/10/18 ~6.25 mg

40% 10/10/18 ~3.125 mg

15% 11/10/18 ~1.5 mg + 50 mg in the evening 

50% 12/10/18 - 25 mg + 10 mg VABEN

45% 13/10/18 ~ 12.5 ml/mg

50% 14/10/18 ~ 1 ml/mg 

 

I don't understand this. What drug or drugs does this refer to? Sertraline? What do the percentages mean? Strength of symptoms?

 

By daily symptom pattern, I mean your pattern over 24 hours. Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

On 10/14/2018 at 11:32 AM, Asi1309 said:

My day begin by waking up stressful and terrorized at about 4:30 am, and about some time later I fall asleep again, and then wake up at 9.

The days are pretty unbearable, and I'm only getting tired and "calm" when  it's bed time. 

 

 

It sounds like you are sensitive to the normal cortisol spike in the early morning. See Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing cortisol spikes

 

What symptoms are unbearable? Need that daily symptom pattern.

[ChessieCat]

34 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

By daily symptom pattern, I mean your pattern over 24 hours. Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

This is an example of what Alto is asking for:

 

6 a.m. Woke and vomited
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Had diarrhea
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Stomachache
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Headache got worse
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke with headache

[Asi1309]

It refers only to SERTRALINE and yes it's the percentage of symptoms( the more the worst), the symptoms I'm talking about here, are hypersensitivity to stimuli, and basically akathisia.

The depression anxiety and suicidal ideation, intrusive thoughts etc.. are unbearable and daily (only when I sleep they are gone)

I'll post my daily symptoms later today,

Thanks

[Asi1309]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:45 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

This is an example of what Alto is asking for:

 

6 a.m. Woke and vomited
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Had diarrhea
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Stomachache
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Headache got worse
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke with headache

it's not like that for me, i look at it day by day, not by the hour.

its the fatigue, depression, depersonalization, lack of motivation, terrible anxiety, that are a nightmare, the physical symptoms less bother me, its the mental ones that are hell.

i'm so depressed right now its literally inhuman, its just s***y man 😞

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Songbird
masked expletive

[Asi1309]

Anyway... it's still hell for me, my mental state is torturing me, my reinstatement does not seem to work, and its seems like i can't tolerate even very small doses, because i will get very bad feelings physically (nervous system sensitivity), i'm currently taking 0.3 mg of SERTRALINE (i tried taking a higher does but reduced, because of the physical symptoms), and its about 19 days into reinstatement, i still thinking i should reinstate the other drug i ctd (WELLBUTRIN).

what do you guys think i should do?

[Altostrata]

I need to see those daily notes, with time of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms in between, also your sleep pattern. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

Are your symptoms better or worse at any time of day?

 

In your next post, I want to see your daily notes for October 23.

 

[Asi1309]

9 am -woke up

11:30 am- got out of bed

11:45 am- took supplements 

12 PM- took sertraline ~  0.2 mg/ml

12:10 PM - are breakfast

1 PM- are some snacks 

1:30 PM- watched TV 

2:33 PM- ate some more 

2:45 PM- exercise 30 minutes 

3:17 PM- ate lunch

4:30 PM played some video games 

8 PM eat dinner 

11 PM go to bed 

Daily symptoms: anxiety,depression, sweaty hands, sensitive cns, impatience, agitation, suicidality, despair etc..

Sleep pattern: ~23:30- 09:00

My symptoms does not seem to fluctuate they are constant and persistent. 

Ps my sensitive cns symptoms lessend a bit since I reduced the medication,  but they are still at 30% and I'm almost taking zero, those physical symptoms correlates with the dose, so its seems like reinstating the sertraline ain't gonna work because of my sensitive to it.

My mental state is my main struggle and that's why I want to reinstate, I'm severely depressed and anxious since i cold Turkey...

Maybe reinstating the wellbutrin will help ?

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Asi1309 said:

Daily symptoms: anxiety,depression, sweaty hands, sensitive cns, impatience, agitation, suicidality, despair etc.. 

 

Do you wake up with these symptoms? When do you get sweaty hands? Are these symptoms better or worse at any particular time of day?

 

Do you get an anxiety surge in the early morning? That's missing from your notes.

 

Why do you wake up at 9:30 but stay in bed until 11:00 a.m.?

 

What do you do for exercise?

 

1 hour ago, Asi1309 said:

Ps my sensitive cns symptoms lessend a bit since I reduced the medication,  but they are still at 30% and I'm almost taking zero, those physical symptoms correlates with the dose, so its seems like reinstating the sertraline ain't gonna work because of my sensitive to it.

My mental state is my main struggle and that's why I want to reinstate, I'm severely depressed and anxious since i cold Turkey...

Maybe reinstating the wellbutrin will help ?

 

How much sertraline, in milligrams, are you taking now? (Please put the dosage in milligrams in your daily notes.)

 

Do you feel better or worse after you take sertraline in the morning?

 

Please keep this dosage constant, take it at the same time every day.

 

My guess is that you are still recovering from cold turkey. Your symptoms are fairly typical withdrawal symptoms. You will have to be patient, even if reinstating a bit of sertraline works, it can take time for your nervous system to settle down. We can't immediately fix you.

 

[Asi1309]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Do you wake up with these symptoms? When do you get sweaty hands? Are these symptoms better or worse at any particular time of day?

 

Do you get an anxiety surge in the early morning? That's missing from your notes.

 

Why do you wake up at 9:30 but stay in bed until 11:00 a.m.?

 

What do you do for exercise?

 

 

How much sertraline, in milligrams, are you taking now? (Please put the dosage in milligrams in your daily notes.)

 

Do you feel better or worse after you take sertraline in the morning?

 

Please keep this dosage constant, take it at the same time every day.

 

My guess is that you are still recovering from cold turkey. Your symptoms are fairly typical withdrawal symptoms. You will have to be patient, even if reinstating a bit of sertraline works, it can take time for your nervous system to settle down. We can't immediately fix you.

 

yes i wake up with these symptoms, i get sweaty hand when i'm nervous, no they stay the same throughout the day.

 

lately i don't get that morning surge of anxiety, so i can still sleep til 8 or 9 am

 

I stay in bed because i just don't want to get out of bed, there is nothing that i look up to.

 

I do cycling

 

Now i'm taking ~0.2 milligrams

 

No i feel no improvement since i started the reinstatement, the only effect the sertraline have on me, is that i become sensitive to everything its hard to explain, every move, every touch, sound, smell, feel wrong and unpleasant.

 

I'll ask again though, it is not worth a shot to try and reinstate the WELLBUTRIN, since the SERTRALINE has no effect on me, and it's the drug i took the most of (300 milligrams)?

I stopped the WELLBUTRIN in may.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Do you sleep from 11 p.m. to 9 a.m.? That would be an improvement, wouldn't it? When did this change?

 

34 minutes ago, Asi1309 said:

Now i'm taking ~0.2 milligrams

 

How are you measuring this? Please take the exact same dosage at the same time every day.

 

I believe what you're describing is post-acute withdrawal syndrome, not the effect of 0.2mg sertraline. In fact, my guess is, you're not taking enough sertraline to make a difference.

[Asi1309]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Do you sleep from 11 p.m. to 9 a.m.? That would be an improvement, wouldn't it? When did this change?

 

yes, but i'm still waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and such, but i can go back to sleep after.

It changed last week, but my sleep is not as strong as it used to be.

 

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

How are you measuring this? Please take the exact same dosage at the same time every day.

 

With a syringe. i followed the instructions in the tapering forum.

[Asi1309]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

I believe what you're describing is post-acute withdrawal syndrome, not the effect of 0.2mg sertraline. In fact, my guess is, you're not taking enough sertraline to make a difference.

 

What i meant was, that the mental symptoms does not changed since i started the cold turkey, but whenever i tried to reinstate, i'll start to get this unrelenting physical symptoms (hypersensitivity), much more then when i'm not on any drug. 

[Asi1309]

So, I stopped the sertraline reinstatement completely because I didn't like the sensitivity it caused, I took my last dosgae on the 25th of October (6 days ago), but I don't know what to do right now, on one hand I wish to never touch this hell drugs again, because I don't want to stunt my progress/healing, and i feel like it's a step back if I took em, but on the other hand I'm having this neuro emotions and Intrusive thoughts and persistent feelings of guilt since the beginning of withdrawal, and that shame that I cut connection with my friends, I don't hang with them anymore and I sort of disappeared. I just feel so bad about it, and can't stop thinking about it and feel bad, especially when they mentions it in a group text or try to contact me I'll feel this paranoia, and deep fear and no confidence at all, I feel haunted and pressured, I didn't told em anything, I just stopped going out with them an such, because I honestly can't.

I'm also all day blame myself why I don't work and hiding all day in my house, I'm literally tormented by it, its hell, I feel so guilty and bad, like a piece of ****, its honestly the worst thing ever,I suffer everywhere,  in all aspects, and blame myself on top of it.

It's like I don't have a choice here, to please everyone I must go back on the medication, but I just don't want to, I know everyone will agree with me that it will be a lot easier going through withdrawal on a desert island god.

I just don't know what to do anymore, I'll read the reinstatement topic and feel such guilt and shame, why I cold Turkey, and why I don't reinstate and get back to functioning normally, like an adult, and why I don't hang with my friends anymore...

But I don't want to take the pills 😞

I also think there should be an cold Turkey sub forum, because I can't seem to find any and honestly i think most of us cold turkeyd, so an informative subforum will be a God sent.

[Asi1309]

I know it's just me but I honestly feel guilty and ashamed for cold Turkey,  and a lost cause and this site does not seem to be geared toward us who cold Turkey and I think its not helpful, I think everyone who experienced psychiatry should be welcome here, and feel encouraged and normal, because I feel like if you didn't taper slowly and cold turkeyd, you're screwed and that's not helpful when you in withdrawal, pls don't take it bad but I just don't want to feel like I screwed it all, and it's all my fault, and that the world won't end, because sometimes I'll feel like it in SA and is really all I have right now.

So yes I cold turkeyd because I didn't know it was that bad, nobody told me,  so what should I do now, how do i still use this site?

I know the information in this site tend to be cold and cautious, because you don't want to fault promise anything,  (like psychiatry) , but we are people, people who experience hell and inhumanity,  and we can't make this unnatural  separations.

Maybe some people who are healthy, and didn't go through psychiatry,  they could handle it better, but I think we can't,  and with all the scary information online, cold frightening storys , there isn't much help beside this community, so i think its important, to offer a sympathetic helpful approach to all of this, because I sincerely feel like I don't have anyone.

It's just my opinion but I think its true

 

[WantoffVen]

Asi, none of us wish you this misery you are going through but this site does NOT recommend cold turkey for the very reason of what you are going through. If you wish to continue with C/T I can only say good luck hang in there. Eventually you will heal but it will take a long, long time and you should try Magnesium and Fish Oil, meditation, light exercise - there is a lot of information on this site for non-medication help. IF you choose to follow what this site recommends you will reinstate your meds at a very low dosage but do not expect an instant change there either. I am not a moderator so I won't recommend which med or how much you should try to reinstate. Hopefully, a moderator will. But you are clearly panicking and looking for an instant fix and there isn't one. But please know that I pray for everyone on this site daily. 

[Asi1309]

It's like there isn't much optimism around the web and IRL about all of this, I mean, last week I've been to my psychiatrist for wellbutrin one of my meds I CT'd, (to have at my house if I would like to reinstate) and she told me infront of my father that I need CTE!!! And my father seemed to agree with her, that's just crushing for a soul man, I have never felt so trumped before and crashed, like there is nobody who will offer me genuine HELP!, like hippocrates said like 2000 years ago, DO NO HARM! , it's the most important thing in life and no one on earth can disagree with, like I understand that no one really knows if it get better or if you'll get back to yourself like you were before you started,  or if you fully heal, but damn that's not helpful when you're in the midst of withdrawal/discontinuation/the drugs own damage, it's only make you feel worst, I think its not helpful at all.

I dunno guys I just want to spill it all, I wish there was more optimistic storys out there, or here, because its like a never ending nightmare,  and its impossible to accept,  I mean it's not HUMAN to think like that it's not in our nature,  we are creatures who always believe it will get better and strive for it, and accepting that, things won't get better soon, or ever is crushing me.

[Asi1309]

If I'll try to reinstate again, at what dosage should i?

Which medication?

And how?

[Altostrata]

This site is as geared towards people who are suffering after cold turkey as much as any other people coming off drugs.

 

We don't have an instant solution for anyone. Reinstatement at a low dose is the most likely way to stop withdrawal symptoms.

 

On 10/25/2018 at 12:52 AM, Asi1309 said:

 

What i meant was, that the mental symptoms does not changed since i started the cold turkey, but whenever i tried to reinstate, i'll start to get this unrelenting physical symptoms (hypersensitivity), much more then when i'm not on any drug. 

 

When you tried to reinstate before, what dosages did you try? We see that reinstatement at "normal" dosages often makes people worse. Is that what happened to you?

 

40 minutes ago, Asi1309 said:

So, I stopped the sertraline reinstatement completely because I didn't like the sensitivity it caused, I took my last dosgae on the 25th of October

 

What kind of sensitivity did 0.2mg Zoloft cause?

 

On 10/25/2018 at 12:47 AM, Asi1309 said:

yes, but i'm still waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and such, but i can go back to sleep after.

It changed last week, but my sleep is not as strong as it used to be.

 

This is pretty good sleep for post-acute withdrawal syndrome.

 

2 minutes ago, Asi1309 said:

If I'll try to reinstate again, at what dosage should i?

Which medication?

And how?

 

I see you have a long history of switching drugs. Please consider whether expecting a miracle result from a drug might not be realistic.

 

In my opinion, 0.2mg Zoloft probably wasn't enough, and you didn't give it enough time. I would try 0.5mg Zoloft.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Altostrata
answered question

[Asi1309]

6 minutes ago, WantoffVen said:

Asi, none of us wish you this misery you are going through but this site does NOT recommend cold turkey for the very reason of what you are going through. If you wish to continue with C/T I can only say good luck hang in there. Eventually you will heal but it will take a long, long time and you should try Magnesium and Fish Oil, meditation, light exercise - there is a lot of information on this site for non-medication help. IF you choose to follow what this site recommends you will reinstate your meds at a very low dosage but do not expect an instant change there either. I am not a moderator so I won't recommend which med or how much you should try to reinstate. Hopefully, a moderator will. But you are clearly panicking and looking for an instant fix and there isn't one. But please know that I pray for everyone on this site daily. 

Thank you very much for your prayers I wish you good life,  healthy,  and free of drugs,  and that you will accomplish your goal, I believe in you, and I'm here if you would like to talk or share. 

[Altostrata]

5 minutes ago, Asi1309 said:

If I'll try to reinstate again, at what dosage should i?

Which medication?

And how?

 

See my response above.

[Asi1309]

17 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

This site is as geared towards people who are suffering after cold turkey as much as any other people coming off drugs.

 

We don't have an instant solution for anyone. Reinstatement at a low dose is the most likely way to stop withdrawal symptoms.

 

 

When you tried to reinstate before, what dosages did you try? We see that reinstatement at "normal" dosages often makes people worse. Is that what happened to you?

 

 

What kind of sensitivity did 0.2mg Zoloft cause?

 

 

This is pretty good sleep for post-acute withdrawal syndrome.

 

I see you have a long history of switching drugs. Please consider whether expecting a miracle result from a drug might not be realistic.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

I tried 50 mg but went down until I reached 0.1 mg and still had some hypersensitivity symptoms, but now I have been off for 6 days, at ~30% of the symptoms, and it will get worse when I'm exercising. 

So I don't know.

I take fish oil and magnesium daily,  but its just not enough. 

[Asi1309]

I cold Turkey 150 mg Sertraline and 300 mg wellbutrin,

At 0.2 mg I still had like ~30% hypersensitivity 

[Asi1309]

Can I reinstate wellbutrin? I know it can't be split, I have wellbutrin xr 150mg.