Confusing spiritual experiences in withdrawal?

[cpuusage]

10 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

I don't necessarily expect answers to this by the way, I'm just venting. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts, I've no idea how much of this is 'me' and how much of it is withdrawal. I either feel really ashamed or else like I should be feeling more ashamed. My survival mechanism this year has been to generally just try to go with the 'good' windows and deal with the guilt etc afterwards during a crash, whenever it comes. Which it does every few weeks usually, along with two massive episodes in the last 6 months. It's no way to live really, because I cycle back round and always know how split I am really. I can;t help but think what I will do the rest of my life, although I know it's not helpful to think that way. I've no idea how I will ever form a proper human relationship, or hold down a job, let along do any of the things I wanted to do beyond that. But I keep going all the same, because that's just what you do. At this point, too, I'm really just sick of my whole boring story. Bla.

 

Regardless of everything that has & does go on within the thoughts, feelings, emotions, sensations, speech & behaviour, & outer circumstances, try to see yourself that you are a bright & beautiful soul. 

 

It is very similar for me as well, & i am sure for many others, i want to deeply heal & transform things within my inner World, & feel good, & also transform my outside circumstances, but do Not appear to be able to.

 

But what is is - & maybe everything is as it needs to be & that we 'just' need to accept everything as it is. 

i also don't want to promote medication(s) - for me the medication does help take the edge of things, & help me to process stuff. A wise use of medication can sometimes help with things. 

 

If the 5mg Prozac currently helps then don't beat yourself up over it all.   

[cpuusage]

11 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

I don't necessarily expect answers to this by the way, I'm just venting. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts, I've no idea how much of this is 'me' and how much of it is withdrawal. I either feel really ashamed or else like I should be feeling more ashamed. My survival mechanism this year has been to generally just try to go with the 'good' windows and deal with the guilt etc afterwards during a crash, whenever it comes. Which it does every few weeks usually, along with two massive episodes in the last 6 months. It's no way to live really, because I cycle back round and always know how split I am really. I can;t help but think what I will do the rest of my life, although I know it's not helpful to think that way. I've no idea how I will ever form a proper human relationship, or hold down a job, let along do any of the things I wanted to do beyond that. But I keep going all the same, because that's just what you do. At this point, too, I'm really just sick of my whole boring story. Bla.

 

i don't want to present a pro psychiatry / pathology picture. i do believe that people can deeply heal & transform things. But i also do Not agree with the denial of what people are experiencing & denial of illness / psychopathology. You are probably already familiar with all this in your own reading & research. i have found it some help to actually see what a more comprehensive psychiatry has said about certain areas. Of course there are massive problems within psychiatry as well, it is Not an exact science.  i do feel however that things are slowly moving to a more comprehensive picture. It has helped me personally to read / research as much as i can on all these areas, but of course different people are helped by different things. i just feel that it is Not on one level simple, there are a lot of complexities to a diagnosis / condition & medication. 

 

Acceptance and OCD

By Fred Penzel, Ph.D.

 

http://beyondocd.org/expert-perspectives/articles/acceptance-and-ocd 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive–compulsive_disorder

 

General Psychopathology

Volume 1 & 2

By Karl Jaspers is worth a read, just for the perspective / foundation of modern psychiatry. i certainly don't agree with it all, but i find these texts a help to explore things.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Jaspers 

 

As per the OCD Wikipedia entry, people are looking at so many aspects to all these areas, & we do Not fully know with it all, & it is very likely to be highly individual, in depth & complex aetiology & prognosis (cause, presentation & outcomes). Very likely 'mental health conditions' do involve aspects of the individual personality. i think that areas of personality are the most in depth & complex area of psychiatry / psychology. 

 

Psychological Types -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Types  

i do feel that Carl Jung spoke the most sense on all these areas - 

The Collected Works of C. G. Jung - 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collected_Works_of_C._G._Jung 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung_publications

Am sorry - said that i wouldn't post any more links. i don't want to hijack the thread. Sorry also if this is areas that you are likely already very familiar with. 

[Cleerity]

3 hours ago, cpuusage said:

For the past 7 years i have wanted to leave all these areas alone, & have somehow got heavily involved with another shamanic healer on-line & another healer in my life.

 

Sometimes, a break is good.  It can give us the opportunity to put things into perspective.  Like this site teaches folks how to withdraw from medications, sometimes we need to withdraw from various aspects of our involvement in life, and allow our own personal universe to settle down into what is authentically our own self/Self. 

 

I also spent several years working with a shamanic healer.  That became (for me) another something I had to heal from.

[cpuusage]

27 minutes ago, Cleerity said:

 

Sometimes, a break is good.  It can give us the opportunity to put things into perspective.  Like this site teaches folks how to withdraw from medications, sometimes we need to withdraw from various aspects of our involvement in life, and allow our own personal universe to settle down into what is authentically our own self/Self. 

 

I also spent several years working with a shamanic healer.  That became (for me) another something I had to heal from.

 

Yes i feel that this is very true. 

i have worked with alternative / spiritual healers for 17 years - 4 main ones, & spoken with many psychics & engaged in many discussions on all these areas, on-line & in my day to day life, as well as reading / researching / learning a lot on all these subjects / areas. i have been involved in all kinds of groups, & have trained in all kinds of areas as well.

It's too much. The main progress i feel has come from my own efforts, maintaining sobriety & a low dose of medication, & simply plodding on with living my life as best as possible. 

 

The underlying condition isn't resolved, & as discussed elsewhere, i don't agree with all the anti / alternative psychiatry / medication areas in the same way that i did. 

 

i feel that i have to heal from the condition / illness / experiences, the whole response & treatment from psychiatry / the mental health system, & also ironically aspects of this whole 17 year recovery / healing journey as well. 

 

i have always wanted appropriate psychological help & i have found someone who i may be able to start work with in June 2019. 

 

Sorry to hijack the thread. 

 

 

 

[TreeElf]

@Cleerity @cpuusage

I was out all day at an appointment.. Please don't feel you're hijacking, I've really enjoyed reading your replies and am glad it's started a conversation. 

Cleerity- thank you so much for sharing such an intimate experience. I really loved reading that. While probably not at the same level, I've had moments of touching the divine, or being on the cusp of a potential so profound and all encompassing it's impossible to explain in words. The Ayahuasca taught me, or showed me, a glimpse of unending unconditional love. A coming home to complete right-ness. Those experiences can never really leave you I guess, although it's the being in the world that is the hard part, but also the most important as a human being. 

 

I too saw Adyashanti talk recently in Dublin. It was wonderful just being in the presence of someone with that much compassion. For the first time in a long time I felt, for that afternoon, I was allowed to be whatever I was being. His poems are beautiful. 

 

cpuusage - it really does suck not knowing where you stand in the world in that sense, what the point of it all is, where do you go from here. I think at some point it'll all make perfect sense, and you're totally right in that we've just got to do what we can do with whatever we've got right now. Thank you for reminding me I'm not alone, I really do appreciate it. 

[cpuusage]

6 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

cpuusage - it really does suck not knowing where you stand in the world in that sense, what the point of it all is, where do you go from here. I think at some point it'll all make perfect sense, and you're totally right in that we've just got to do what we can do with whatever we've got right now. Thank you for reminding me I'm not alone, I really do appreciate it. 

 

The human condition - & we have more similarity than difference. i find inspiration in writings - 

Faust

 

Sweetest being, don’t misunderstand me!

Who dares name the nameless?

Or who dares to confess:

‘I believe in him’?

Yet who, in feeling,

Self-revealing,

Says: ‘I don’t believe’?

The all-clasping,

The all-upholding,

Does it not clasp, uphold,

You: me, itself?

Don’t the heavens arch above us?

Doesn’t earth lie here under our feet?

And don’t the eternal stars, rising,

Look down on us in friendship?

Are not my eyes reflected in yours?

And don’t all things press

On your head and heart,

And weave, in eternal mystery,

Visibly: invisibly, around you?

Fill your heart from it: it is so vast,

And when you are blessed by the deepest feeling,

Call it then what you wish,

Joy! Heart! Love! God!

I have no name

For it! Feeling is all:

Names are sound and smoke,

Veiling Heaven’s bright glow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust

 

[cpuusage]

6 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

cpuusage - it really does suck not knowing where you stand in the world in that sense, what the point of it all is, where do you go from here. I think at some point it'll all make perfect sense, and you're totally right in that we've just got to do what we can do with whatever we've got right now. Thank you for reminding me I'm not alone, I really do appreciate it. 

 

i am non religious in the sense that i don't follow any Holy book or exoteric religion, but thought that this was interesting - 
 

This is healing & protective -

 

The Gyatri - a prayer to the divine beloved by the Hindu's and Buddhists:

 

Om bhur buva svaha
Tat savitur veranyam
Bargo devasya dimahi
Di yo yo na pra chodiat
OM

 

This is the Lord's prayer in ancient Aramaic (as it was meant to be said):

 

Abwoon d'bwashmaya
Nethqadash shmakh
Teytey malkuthakh
Neywey tzevyanach aykanna d'bwashmaya aph b'arha
Hawvlan lachma d'suganan yaomana.
Washboglan khaubayn wakhtahayn
Aykana daph khnan shbwogan l'khayyabayn.
Wela tahlan l'nesyuna
Ela patzan min bisha.
Metol dilakhie malkutha wahayla wateshbukhta l'ahlam
Almin
Ameyn

 

(say it as it seems and it begins to flow)

[Cleerity]

On 11/20/2018 at 5:43 AM, cpuusage said:

i have worked with alternative / spiritual healers for 17 years - 4 main ones, & spoken with many psychics & engaged in many discussions on all these areas, on-line & in my day to day life, as well as reading / researching / learning a lot on all these subjects / areas. i have been involved in all kinds of groups, & have trained in all kinds of areas as well.

It's too much. The main progress i feel has come from my own efforts

 

I agree with what you shared here, cpu.  I think a time comes when one has to go through a process of distillation, keeping what serves one well and discarding what does not.  I think what feels most authentically one's self, will always also be the most fulfilling.  I became tired/worn out from the mental merry-go-round of all the seeking.  The overload of more and more information I was constantly taking in only added more confusion...I became too diffuse.  With my analysts help, I worked on simplifying and developing a "focus" to work toward becoming my best self.  I made my world smaller and, resultantly, became healthier.  

 

I love the Lord's Prayer from the ancient Aramaic that you shared.  I have it on CD, too, purchased years ago and I still like to listen to it from time to time.

 

14 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

Cleerity- thank you so much for sharing such an intimate experience. I really loved reading that. While probably not at the same level, I've had moments of touching the divine, or being on the cusp of a potential so profound and all encompassing it's impossible to explain in words. The Ayahuasca taught me, or showed me, a glimpse of unending unconditional love. A coming home to complete right-ness. Those experiences can never really leave you I guess, although it's the being in the world that is the hard part, but also the most important as a human being. 

 

You're welcome.  I found that sharing it actually gave me some new perspective on it.  This is good.  I think such moments/experiences (as you have also shared) are like visitations from our Self which give us confirmation along the way...and I agree that they never really leave us.  For me, they have been part of what kept me going.

[cpuusage]

29 minutes ago, Cleerity said:

I agree with what you shared here, cpu.  I think a time comes when one has to go through a process of distillation, keeping what serves one well and discarding what does not.  I think what feels most authentically one's self, will always also be the most fulfilling.  I became tired/worn out from the mental merry-go-round of all the seeking.  The overload of more and more information I was constantly taking in only added more confusion...I became too diffuse.  With my analysts help, I worked on simplifying and developing a "focus" to work toward becoming my best self.  I made my world smaller and, resultantly, became healthier.  

 

Yes, this is very much where i am at with it all as well. Very much need to be more self referential & go with what i feel about this World / life. 

 

It's also Not healthy for me to continue to engage in endless circular polemical, dualistic, dialectical arguments / debates, especially around materialism / spirituality & anti / pro psychiatry / medication - i do have a non dual contemplative practise, & take an integral & nuanced view on all these areas & need to go with what makes sense to me personally around it all, rather than the plethora of other people's views & opinions on it all. 

[TreeElf]

On 11/21/2018 at 2:47 PM, Cleerity said:

I think what feels most authentically one's self, will always also be the most fulfilling.  I became tired/worn out from the mental merry-go-round of all the seeking.  The overload of more and more information I was constantly taking in only added more confusion...I became too diffuse.  With my analysts help, I worked on simplifying and developing a "focus" to work toward becoming my best self.  I made my world smaller and, resultantly, became healthier.  

 

Sometimes I just think, 'how long are you going to go round this merry-go-round, aren't you tired yet?' It's almost comical at times. Simplifying life seems to be like where things have been heading, that is definitely important. My mind craves both constant stimulation/information and simplicity all at the same time. I think I was, on some level in recent years, trying to 'jump' from complete addict's mind to 'transcended non-attached no-mind'. And when I find that can't be sustained in 'real' human life, I went into a tizzy. I have to accept I have this mind now, and there will always be attachments and seeking in this life. But that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be terrible suffering all the time. As you mentioned before, the real task is integrating all that into an ordinary life. I'm glad you found it useful to share your experiences.

 

On 11/21/2018 at 3:36 PM, cpuusage said:

It's also Not healthy for me to continue to engage in endless circular polemical, dualistic, dialectical arguments / debates, especially around materialism / spirituality & anti / pro psychiatry / medication - i do have a non dual contemplative practise, & take an integral & nuanced view on all these areas & need to go with what makes sense to me personally around it all, rather than the plethora of other people's views & opinions on it all. 

 

Thanks for those lovely prayers. This is super relevant currently - with certain people (like my mother), I constantly get into these conversations, debates, etc about these things. And I know it's coming from the wrong place, and it's not serving me. Ultimately the opinions and views can all get in the way of the only thing that matters, which is the practice itself. Even after all this time, I'm still avoiding myself in so many ways and this is one of them.

[cpuusage]

23 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

Thanks for those lovely prayers. This is super relevant currently - with certain people (like my mother), I constantly get into these conversations, debates, etc about these things. And I know it's coming from the wrong place, and it's not serving me. Ultimately the opinions and views can all get in the way of the only thing that matters, which is the practice itself. Even after all this time, I'm still avoiding myself in so many ways and this is one of them.

 

Thanks. Yes i totally identify with it all. It's been the same for me constantly, with my twin brother especially. 

It is a very tough World / society / environment to be in, in our body suits, & everyone is different in ways & has different ways of perceiving & understanding things. 
People also tend to see appearance - speech / behaviour - it's rare to find people who see the genuine / real inner you / self. 

Above all else - To thine own self be true. 

 

“Know thyself, and thou shalt know the universe and God.”

― Temple of Apollo at Delphi

The Man in the Glass (or woman) 

http://www.inspirationpeak.com/cgi-bin/poetry.cgi?record=155 

 

“Be yourself. Above all, let who you are, what you are, what you believe, shine through every sentence you write, every piece you finish.”

― John Jakes

 

“The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.”

― Baruch Spinoza

"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
 

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

― Theodore Roosevelt

[cpuusage]

 

 

i think that this short animation sums things up perfectly - it does have a positive ending. 

[TreeElf]

49 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

People also tend to see appearance - speech / behaviour - it's rare to find people who see the genuine / real inner you / self. 

 

True, I can see the purpose of a true 'guru' in this sense - someone who needs nothing from you and looks at you as the real you. Being in the presence of certain individuals with a real sense of inner peace has a similar effect.

 

50 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

― Theodore Roosevelt

 

Thanks for this quote. I fear I've been that cold timid soul most of my life, just not making decisions because of the immense amount of fear. I hope I can find it in me to be more than that. I'll check out the video later, in a cafe at the moment

[cpuusage]

1 minute ago, AbbyElfie said:

 

True, I can see the purpose of a true 'guru' in this sense - someone who needs nothing from you and looks at you as the real you. Being in the presence of certain individuals with a real sense of inner peace has a similar effect.

 

 

Thanks for this quote. I fear I've been that cold timid soul most of my life, just not making decisions because of the immense amount of fear. I hope I can find it in me to be more than that. I'll check out the video later, in a cafe at the moment

Yes - But a true 'guru', someone genuinely self / god realised is i think someone incredibly hard to come across. Ramana Maharshi is the only one i really trust to have been the genuine article in more 'modern' times. Millions of people have been & are cashing in on all these areas - it is an area that is full of fakes & frauds. 

i have experienced an immense amount of fear as well. The vast majority of people if wholly honest i think do as well.

[Cleerity]

9 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

Sometimes I just think, 'how long are you going to go round this merry-go-round, aren't you tired yet?' It's almost comical at times. Simplifying life seems to be like where things have been heading, that is definitely important. My mind craves both constant stimulation/information and simplicity all at the same time. I think I was, on some level in recent years, trying to 'jump' from complete addict's mind to 'transcended non-attached no-mind'. And when I find that can't be sustained in 'real' human life, I went into a tizzy. I have to accept I have this mind now, and there will always be attachments and seeking in this life. But that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be terrible suffering all the time. As you mentioned before, the real task is integrating all that into an ordinary life. I'm glad you found it useful to share your experiences.

 

Your first sentence made me think of the old metaphor about a dog chasing its own tail.  We've all done it and do it!  Good that we can find humor in it when we catch ourselves doing it.  

 

I think a simultaneous pursuit of stimulation and simplicity is possible.  Don't you?

 

Trying to make a jump from one way of being to another is the hard part.  I know that after I touched transcendence in a very profound way, it was hard for me to accept that I needed to take the deep descent back into my life.  (In the end, it is the only way that we might truly live a spiritually embodied life, right?).  It was hard for me to take the plunge because there was hoards of pain and dysfunction in my life.  That was about the time frame I contacted Bonnie Greenwell for a consultation regarding my kundalini/spiritual experiences.  She told me (and I remembered this all through the years), that deep therapeutic processes are important no matter one's age/stage of the journey and that (in so many words), I would have to keep at it until I no longer had so much arising.  I found her words encouraging because they implied a day would come when I no longer would have so much coming up from the unconscious.  I have found, for me, that no short cuts could be taken.  Each time I wanted to jump, I was slammed back into the reality of where I really was/what really needed attention -  back into the work of healing my soul.  I am still here.  Life long journey.  And I will not trade it for a moment.  The way I see it now, to do otherwise (to depart from my healing journey) would be like abandoning my self...and that is something I shall never do.

 

8 hours ago, cpuusage said:

Yes - But a true 'guru', someone genuinely self / god realised is i think someone incredibly hard to come across. Ramana Maharshi is the only one i really trust to have been the genuine article in more 'modern' times. Millions of people have been & are cashing in on all these areas - it is an area that is full of fakes & frauds.

  

I could not agree more, cpu!  Loads of people (self-proclaimed gurus and healers) are cashing in on needy folks.  

 

You shared some beautiful quotes.  And the short film!  One could talk for hours over the symbolism...  And the overall meaning.

 

[cpuusage]

7 hours ago, Cleerity said:

  I could not agree more, cpu!  Loads of people (self-proclaimed gurus and healers) are cashing in on needy folks.  

 

You shared some beautiful quotes.  And the short film!  One could talk for hours over the symbolism...  And the overall meaning.

 

i feel that for some people with mental health difficulties religion & spirituality can often be incredibly difficult areas. 

Some days i go with a far more non religious & almost Atheist & deeply scientific perspective on it all. Other days i go very deeply into the universal wisdom / perennial philosophy teachings. Other days i go with a far more Eastern philosophical perspective. Other days with a Celtic Gnostic Christian spirituality. 

i try & bring things back to simply trying my best to be kind & peaceful to all Beings. 

i often get very bad feelings & fear in my heart, & very bad visions of things. Nothing works to resolve it all. For all the failings & imperfections of psychiatry, i think it is part of the schizophrenic illness / condition.

 

i have found all the denial, invalidation, trivialisation, & exclusion in regards to my actual experiences, difficulties, condition & feelings / inner World, incredibly hard to deal with. On one level with psychiatry there is at least some degree of validation of it all. 

 

i am hoping that this psychologist in June 2019 can be some kind of more help.  

 

  

[Cleerity]

4 hours ago, cpuusage said:

i feel that for some people with mental health difficulties religion & spirituality can often be incredibly difficult areas. 

 

I think they are difficult areas even for those without mental health difficulties, for, "when" one probes deeply into religion and spirituality, one encounters much cognitive dissonance.  It takes time and a lot of grappling with deep questions to develop a proper framework for understanding.

 

4 hours ago, cpuusage said:

For all the failings & imperfections of psychiatry ...  On one level with psychiatry there is at least some degree of validation of it all ... i am hoping that this psychologist in June 2019 can be some kind of more help.

 

Despite my medications, I have spent 17 very helpful years engaged in in-depth psychoanalysis.  You will not find me naysaying it.  Call me biased (it will be true), but I believe that when we are seeking solutions for the maladies that trouble us, therapeutic analysis (whether done alone of with a therapist) is an integral part of the process.  In my own life, my very troubling childhood smacked of the need for therapeutic intervention.  However, I do not believe any life (even the seemingly most ideal) is free of some level of dysfunction that requires intervention to achieve psychological wholeness.  I personally believe healing our early life conditioning (however difficult or not) is key.  So many answers are found there...

 

I hope that you are able to have a very good relationship with the therapist you will begin seeing.  You deserve it!

[cpuusage]

37 minutes ago, Cleerity said:

Despite my medications, I have spent 17 very helpful years engaged in in-depth psychoanalysis.  You will not find me naysaying it.  Call me biased (it will be true), but I believe that when we are seeking solutions for the maladies that trouble us, therapeutic analysis (whether done alone of with a therapist) is an integral part of the process.  In my own life, my very troubling childhood smacked of the need for therapeutic intervention.  However, I do not believe any life (even the seemingly most ideal) is free of some level of dysfunction that requires intervention to achieve psychological wholeness.  I personally believe healing our early life conditioning (however difficult or not) is key.  So many answers are found there...

 

I hope that you are able to have a very good relationship with the therapist you will begin seeing.  You deserve it!

 

Thanks - there has seemed no end to all the crap in my life & i don't see any end to it all. i think i am going to try the 400mg Amisulpride. 

i'm not sure by Summer next year if i will be able to afford the psychologist, & my social situation is as it always has been, very precarious. i don't know how much longer i will be in this current accommodation, or even be in accommodation. 

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Cleerity said:

 

I think they are difficult areas even for those without mental health difficulties, for, "when" one probes deeply into religion and spirituality, one encounters much cognitive dissonance.  It takes time and a lot of grappling with deep questions to develop a proper framework for understanding.

 

 

Despite my medications, I have spent 17 very helpful years engaged in in-depth psychoanalysis.  You will not find me naysaying it.  Call me biased (it will be true), but I believe that when we are seeking solutions for the maladies that trouble us, therapeutic analysis (whether done alone of with a therapist) is an integral part of the process.  In my own life, my very troubling childhood smacked of the need for therapeutic intervention.  However, I do not believe any life (even the seemingly most ideal) is free of some level of dysfunction that requires intervention to achieve psychological wholeness.  I personally believe healing our early life conditioning (however difficult or not) is key.  So many answers are found there...

 

I hope that you are able to have a very good relationship with the therapist you will begin seeing.  You deserve it!

I agree whole heartedly with this .

[powerback]

24 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

 

Thanks - there has seemed no end to all the crap in my life & i don't see any end to it all. i think i am going to try the 400mg Amisulpride. 

i'm not sure by Summer next year if i will be able to afford the psychologist, & my social situation is as it always has been, very precarious. i don't know how much longer i will be in this current accommodation, or even be in accommodation. 

Hi cpuusage ,I empathise deeply with your situation .I send you my shoulder ,maybe to offset the anguish of your acomadation you can read up on your rights as a tenant.

Take care.

[cpuusage]

1 hour ago, powerback said:

Hi cpuusage ,I empathise deeply with your situation .I send you my shoulder ,maybe to offset the anguish of your acomadation you can read up on your rights as a tenant.

Take care.

 

Thanks. 

In right wing Tory / Brexit / Austerity / Welfare 'reform' Britain in private rented accommodation with a criminal record, addiction history & diagnosed with schizophrenia, i don't have any rights. 

[powerback]

46 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

 

Thanks. 

In right wing Tory / Brexit / Austerity / Welfare 'reform' Britain in private rented accommodation with a criminal record, addiction history & diagnosed with schizophrenia, i don't have any rights. 

Its the last taboo in my opinion ,governments and people go around pating themselves on the back for progress in racism and gender equal rights ,its a joke .

In ireland there is a huge problem with vulture funds,there is actually beds to share for €500 to rent in ireland being advertised.anyone that is surprised by trumps presidency is deluded.the whole western world is addicted to the self.

Its much worse than the tenements.

 

Its all darwinian and most of them hide behind religion and give to charity and actually think there doing good .then on the way home buy a handbag for 2 grand.

how can a CEO of a charity earn hundreds of thousands,they are ran like buinesses and banks .

The message of the world was never love and peace ,its all business and success and jeering the "weak"

I put myself in all this category also, until withdrawal and alot of self discovery woke me up and humbled me .

 

Ive read up on some of that social credit system in the uk .

 

How about giving out scholoarships and equal chances to less fortunate.

The whole world is a tinder box let alone the brexit fiasco .

Is everyone is power just naracists playing a big game of monopoly.

Apolagies for the rant on your threard ,im aware self pitty is driving it but I cant unwatch what I see,respect to  you CPU.

Take care.

[cpuusage]

1 hour ago, powerback said:

The whole world is a tinder box let alone the brexit fiasco .

Is everyone is power just naracists playing a big game of monopoly.

Apolagies for the rant on your threard ,im aware self pitty is driving it but I cant unwatch what I see,respect to  you CPU.

Take care.

Rant away. i hijacked the thread - it was AbbyElfie's. 

i am just very tired of it all, & this World / system, & i know all the ways that i have been & will be treated. 

i have spoken out on it all for 20 years, have been abused, banned & blacklisted from a lot of places on-line. i have written countless letters to all kinds of people & engaged in all kinds of social activism. It makes No real difference to anything. i set up a comprehensive alternative mental health project as well, very few people are interested in it all. 

 

[powerback]

3 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

Rant away. i hijacked the thread - it was AbbyElfie's. 

i am just very tired of it all, & this World / system, & i know all the ways that i have been & will be treated. 

i have spoken out on it all for 20 years, have been abused, banned & blacklisted from a lot of places on-line. i have written countless letters to all kinds of people & engaged in all kinds of social activism. It makes No real difference to anything. i set up a comprehensive alternative mental health project as well, very few people are interested in it all. 

 

Oh sorry abbyelfie ,I didnt realise it your thread, im on my phone .

Oh thats awful ,did you ever think of sending your project to MIA .we need things set up from people living the experience .

Well I wouldnt really take it personally ,most of the world is unconscious .

I think the living in the now mindset is being hijacked and used to justifiy taking meds to get ahead in life,like selling your soul to the devil.

Im far from correct ,im sorry I ever went up against the system ,im backing away now for ever .

Take care .

[cpuusage]

2 minutes ago, powerback said:

Oh sorry abbyelfie ,I didnt realise it your thread, im on my phone .

Oh thats awful ,did you ever think of sending your project to MIA .we need things set up from people living the experience .

Well I wouldnt really take it personally ,most of the world is unconscious .

I think the living in the now mindset is being hijacked and used to justifiy taking meds to get ahead in life,like selling your soul to the devil.

Im far from correct ,im sorry I ever went up against the system ,im backing away now for ever .

Take care .

 

i have a complex history & circumstances with it all. i fought the system from day one, but there simply is a severe underlying psychotic condition, i do accept the diagnosis of schizophrenia that i have. & here is part of the issue with it all. i am Not opposed to a genuinely comprehensive psychiatry,  judicious use of front end services, potential hospitalisation & wise use of medication in some cases, & i think that some people need it all & would even under a more ideal system. i neither agree with the extreme biomedical view & whole current pharmacological / biomedical industry, but nor do i agree with the extreme anti psychiatry, anti medication, abolitionist view either. i take a genuinely individual, nuanced, integral & differential view on it all. 

i took issue with the dominance of extreme anti psychiatry views on MIA, spoke about a different perspective & was lifetime banned. Same on schizophrenia.com. mental health forum, psychology today & others.   

[cpuusage]

18 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

 

i have a complex history & circumstances with it all. i fought the system from day one, but there simply is a severe underlying psychotic condition, i do accept the diagnosis of schizophrenia that i have. & here is part of the issue with it all. i am Not opposed to a genuinely comprehensive psychiatry,  judicious use of front end services, potential hospitalisation & wise use of medication in some cases, & i think that some people need it all & would even under a more ideal system. i neither agree with the extreme biomedical view & whole current pharmacological / biomedical industry, but nor do i agree with the extreme anti psychiatry, anti medication, abolitionist view either. i take a genuinely individual, nuanced, integral & differential view on it all. 

i took issue with the dominance of extreme anti psychiatry views on MIA, spoke about a different perspective & was lifetime banned. Same on schizophrenia.com. mental health forum, psychology today & others.   

 

All things considered - i think that severe schizophrenia is in large part a biological; genetic / epigenetic; brain developmental / functional condition, & a serious disability, that needs proper treatment, & ideally as well appropriate psychological & social understanding, help & support. i know the severity of the 8 very major psychotic episodes that i have had, & the long term effects on my life & functioning. It is a serious illness. 

Yes with some wonderful ideal World & wonderful treatment maybe some people's experiences with it all could be far better healed, but that is highly debatable, & we don't live in such a World & most people don't get such ideal treatment.  

 

[cpuusage]

20 hours ago, powerback said:

The whole world is a tinder box let alone the brexit fiasco .

Is everyone is power just naracists playing a big game of monopoly.

 

There always have been & are genuine Global systemic alternatives. Thousands of grass roots groups & millions of people calling for alternatives. A few examples here -

  Open economy, a resource-based economy, zero marginal cost economy, or movements like the The Free World Charter, The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement, Ubuntu Contributionism, New Earth Nation, The Thrive Movement, or the works of Jeremy Rifkin, Jacque Fresco, R. Buckminster Fuller, Peter Joseph, Michael Tellinger, Colin R. Turner. Countless other people & projects along very similar lines. 

Debt the first 5 Thousand years - 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

Free World Charter - 

www.freeworldcharter.org/en

The Zeitgeist Movement - 

thezeitgeistmovementuk.com/about/

The Venus Project - 

www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project/aims-and-proposals/

The Thrive Movement - 

www.thrivemovement.com/

New Earth Nation - 

newearthnation.org/

Richard Buckminster "Bucky" Fuller 

www.bfi.org/dymaxion-forum/2016/12/weaponry-livingry

www.designsciencelab.com/resources/HumanitysPath_BF.pdf

UN Article 25 - 

www.sharing.org/information-centre/articles/implementing-article-25-universal-declaration-human-rights-and-basic

Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year They Could End Extreme Poverty Seven Times

http://time.com/money/5112462/billionaires-made-so-much-money-last-year-they-could-end-extreme-poverty-seven-times/ 

 

Blessed Unrest: How the Largest Social Movement in History Is Restoring Grace, Justice, and Beau: How the Largest Social Movement in the World Is Restoring Grace, Justice and Beauty to the World – 2008

by Paul Hawken 

"The New York Times bestselling examination of the worldwide movement for social and environmental change

Paul Hawken has spent more than a decade researching organizations dedicated to restoring the environment and fostering social justice. From billion-dollar nonprofits to single-person dot.causes, these groups collectively comprise the largest movement on earth, a movement that has no name, leader, or location and that has gone largely ignored by politicians and the media.

Blessed Unrest explores the diversity of the movement, its brilliant ideas, innovative strategies, and centuries of hidden history. A culmination of Hawken's many years of leadership in the environmental and social justice fields, it will inspire all who despair of the world's fate, and its conclusions will surprise even those within the movement itself."

 

Quote from Wikipedia. 

Will it all be enough? 

 

 

 

 

[powerback]

42 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

 

There always have been & are genuine Global systemic alternatives. Thousands of grass roots groups & millions of people calling for alternatives. A few examples here -

  Open economy, a resource-based economy, zero marginal cost economy, or movements like the The Free World Charter, The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement, Ubuntu Contributionism, New Earth Nation, The Thrive Movement, or the works of Jeremy Rifkin, Jacque Fresco, R. Buckminster Fuller, Peter Joseph, Michael Tellinger, Colin R. Turner. Countless other people & projects along very similar lines. 

Debt the first 5 Thousand years - 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

Free World Charter - 

www.freeworldcharter.org/en

The Zeitgeist Movement - 

thezeitgeistmovementuk.com/about/

The Venus Project - 

www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project/aims-and-proposals/

The Thrive Movement - 

www.thrivemovement.com/

New Earth Nation - 

newearthnation.org/

Richard Buckminster "Bucky" Fuller 

www.bfi.org/dymaxion-forum/2016/12/weaponry-livingry

www.designsciencelab.com/resources/HumanitysPath_BF.pdf

UN Article 25 - 

www.sharing.org/information-centre/articles/implementing-article-25-universal-declaration-human-rights-and-basic

Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year They Could End Extreme Poverty Seven Times

http://time.com/money/5112462/billionaires-made-so-much-money-last-year-they-could-end-extreme-poverty-seven-times/ 

 

Blessed Unrest: How the Largest Social Movement in History Is Restoring Grace, Justice, and Beau: How the Largest Social Movement in the World Is Restoring Grace, Justice and Beauty to the World – 2008

by Paul Hawken 

"The New York Times bestselling examination of the worldwide movement for social and environmental change

Paul Hawken has spent more than a decade researching organizations dedicated to restoring the environment and fostering social justice. From billion-dollar nonprofits to single-person dot.causes, these groups collectively comprise the largest movement on earth, a movement that has no name, leader, or location and that has gone largely ignored by politicians and the media.

Blessed Unrest explores the diversity of the movement, its brilliant ideas, innovative strategies, and centuries of hidden history. A culmination of Hawken's many years of leadership in the environmental and social justice fields, it will inspire all who despair of the world's fate, and its conclusions will surprise even those within the movement itself."

 

Quote from Wikipedia. 

Will it all be enough? 

 

 

 

 

Hi CPU I hope your well ,loads there to read ,fairplay thanks.

Take care .I felt like ide a hangover today after all my ranting yesterday lol.

Be safe and respect to you.

[cpuusage]

38 minutes ago, powerback said:

Hi CPU I hope your well ,loads there to read ,fairplay thanks.

Take care .I felt like ide a hangover today after all my ranting yesterday lol.

Be safe and respect to you.

 

i am feeling a lot better today thanks. i'm Not sure that we shall see a genuinely civilised World until after 2200. 

Hope all well with you & respect to you as well. 

[TreeElf]

Not my thread as far as I'm concerned - thank you @Cleerity, @cpuusage and @powerback for continuing the conversation! I don't come on here every day so am catching up with the comments. On a positive note, I'd like to share that I've actually had a very transformative week. Something 'clicked' back together in my brain, even if temporarily, and I have had immense rushes of positive energy, almost like adrenaline, after 'seeing' the huge potentials beyond my current condition. While I know I'm currently operating from a restrictive, limited mind, I know that there is so much more beyond that. I can't see it or feel it, but just knowing there is boundless potential in the human individual is enough to give a lot of hope.

 

cpuusage - I hope you're feeling better, or at least managing ok. One of my good friend's suffers from schizophrenia, it's really no joke. The only thing that we can all be certain ofis that we simply don't know enough about it - what causes it, how it can be treated. Regardless, it is a serious condition and the only thing that we know for sure is that empathy and compassion towards those suffering is the basis for any healing to occur. And on another level, despite all the awfulness, everything has to be exactly as it should be - how could it be any other way than what it is? Doesn't change the tough every day reality, but know you are not alone. As Ram Dass says, 'We're all just walking each other home'.

 

Feel free to vent PB! I understand the disillusion with our broken society. I do feel we are going through a mass awakening, though, and that is bound to be painful. Appreciate hearing your thoughts and hope you feel better for sharing.

 

On 11/24/2018 at 12:38 AM, Cleerity said:

She told me (and I remembered this all through the years), that deep therapeutic processes are important no matter one's age/stage of the journey and that (in so many words), I would have to keep at it until I no longer had so much arising.  I found her words encouraging because they implied a day would come when I no longer would have so much coming up from the unconscious.  I have found, for me, that no short cuts could be taken.  Each time I wanted to jump, I was slammed back into the reality of where I really was/what really needed attention -  back into the work of healing my soul.  I am still here.  Life long journey.  And I will not trade it for a moment.  The way I see it now, to do otherwise (to depart from my healing journey) would be like abandoning my self...and that is something I shall never do.

 

You have a lovely way of putting things that makes me feel all nice inside haha! This is almost exactly what's been happening over the past year or so, each time wanting to jump and being pulled back to what really needs attention. Withdrawal has taught me this will be a lifelong journey, and I'm becoming more okay with that as time goes on.

[cpuusage]

13 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

cpuusage - I hope you're feeling better, or at least managing ok. One of my good friend's suffers from schizophrenia, it's really no joke. The only thing that we can all be certain ofis that we simply don't know enough about it - what causes it, how it can be treated. Regardless, it is a serious condition and the only thing that we know for sure is that empathy and compassion towards those suffering is the basis for any healing to occur. And on another level, despite all the awfulness, everything has to be exactly as it should be - how could it be any other way than what it is? Doesn't change the tough every day reality, but know you are not alone. As Ram Dass says, 'We're all just walking each other home'.

 

Hi. Glad that you are feeling better. 

i have been feeling slightly better thanks. i don't want to have to take the 400mg Amisulpride but feel that is currently a lesser of evils at this stage. 

 

Yes so very little is really known about schizophrenia. 

 

i have analysed & explored every avenue & opinion to it all imaginable - i think in part it very likely is a no fault severe brain disorder, that needs a medication in cases. 

 

i hope that you continue to improve with everything. X

[TreeElf]

13 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

i have been feeling slightly better thanks. i don't want to have to take the 400mg Amisulpride but feel that is currently a lesser of evils at this stage. 

 

Yes so very little is really known about schizophrenia. 

 

i have analysed & explored every avenue & opinion to it all imaginable - i think in part it very likely is a no fault severe brain disorder, that needs a medication in cases. 

 

Thank you, and good to hear. If the 400mg will help for now and not make you worse then go with what feels right. As you know, there's no end to how much we could analyse and explore the nature of it. In certain cases I agree medication has its place, especially with psyhchotic symtpoms. I'd have no hesitation in taking a pill if I even felt on the cusp of that border right now. If it's what you need right now, go with that, and evaluate as you feel your way forward.

 

Can I ask how old you are? I was trying to guess by your posts but I couldn't lol.

[cpuusage]

1 hour ago, AbbyElfie said:

 

Thank you, and good to hear. If the 400mg will help for now and not make you worse then go with what feels right. As you know, there's no end to how much we could analyse and explore the nature of it. In certain cases I agree medication has its place, especially with psyhchotic symtpoms. I'd have no hesitation in taking a pill if I even felt on the cusp of that border right now. If it's what you need right now, go with that, and evaluate as you feel your way forward.

 

Can I ask how old you are? I was trying to guess by your posts but I couldn't lol.

 

i am 45. 

Born in the Summer of 1973 & grew up in the countryside in the New Forest area / Hampshire. i have moved around a lot, but always lived in the Dorset & Hampshire areas, other than when in hospital in Salisbury - the Old Manor - which was an interesting place - it's since been demolished - 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Manor_Hospital,_Salisbury

 

i also did a fair bit of travelling at one stage - all over France, Scotland, Cyprus. Amsterdam, Jersey, & Spain.

Yes the analysis & exploration of the nature of mental health; psychosis / schizophrenia is endless. i can't see how different biological, psychogenic, sociological & spiritual  transpersonal weightings can really be measured? There is a mystery to it all, as there is to life.  
 

[TreeElf]

5 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

Born in the Summer of 1973 & grew up in the countryside in the New Forest area / Hampshire. i have moved around a lot, but always lived in the Dorset & Hampshire areas, other than when in hospital in Salisbury - the Old Manor - which was an interesting place - it's since been demolished - 

 

I live in Northern Ireland but am from Aylesbury originally, we went on holiday in Dorset when I was a kid - lovely area. You seem to have packed in a lot in 45 years, all things considered. Not easy to travel or explore new places when you have such difficult mental stuff to deal with.

 

I was listening to a lot of Adyashanti this year, about embracing the mystery - our job is to get to that 'edge' of not knowing, and just abide there as long as we can. Over and over.  I've been flip flopping either side of that edge, as we humans tend to do, into intense fear and back out again. It's the staying at that point that is tough, but I've had glimpses of it and I think things are likely more beautiful and simple than we can currently imagine. When you've experienced such fear in your mind/life though, it takes a huge amount of courage to go to that edge, even if there's nothing really to fear.

 

Not that I'm advising it as it's controversial when it comes to psychosis, but did you ever try plant medicine of any kind?

[cpuusage]

1 minute ago, AbbyElfie said:

 

I live in Northern Ireland but am from Aylesbury originally, we went on holiday in Dorset when I was a kid - lovely area. You seem to have packed in a lot in 45 years, all things considered. Not easy to travel or explore new places when you have such difficult mental stuff to deal with.

 

I was listening to a lot of Adyashanti this year, about embracing the mystery - our job is to get to that 'edge' of not knowing, and just abide there as long as we can. Over and over.  I've been flip flopping either side of that edge, as we humans tend to do, into intense fear and back out again. It's the staying at that point that is tough, but I've had glimpses of it and I think things are likely more beautiful and simple than we can currently imagine. When you've experienced such fear in your mind/life though, it takes a huge amount of courage to go to that edge, even if there's nothing really to fear.

 

Not that I'm advising it as it's controversial when it comes to psychosis, but did you ever try plant medicine of any kind?

 

Beyond the challenges of the mental health difficulties i have experienced & done a lot. i never had a mobile phone or used the internet until around the year 2,000. 

 

i used to spend a lot of time drawing, painting & model making - completed 7 years of further education & was in full time work off & on for 8 years. i was also in 3 main relationships. 

Over the past 10 years especially i have done a lot of reading / research into a lot of different areas. Am Not sure if i am allowed to share the link - i set up this small forum / blog - 

 

http://healingsanctuary.proboards.com/  

 

It was mainly for the open discussion of anything mental health related from a holistic (mind, body, soul, spirit & environment) perspective. The project plan is here - 

http://healingsanctuary.proboards.com/thread/57/project-plan 

 

i have listened to & read a lot of Adyashanti. i prefer Ramana Maharshi & the traditional nondualism / vedic mysticism. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramana_Maharshi

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

 

i do identify with what you are saying. From a very young age i was very interested in the whole 60's counter cultural movement. Age 11 i started smoking cannabis. Age 15 i got heavily into drink / drugs - a lot of cannabis, magick mushrooms, LSD, Ketamine, Poppers, E's, all sorts. Syncronistically i also got into the writings & work of people like Robert Anton Wilson, Carlos Castaneda, Aldous Huxley, Aleister Crowley etc & all the areas of cosmic consciousness, shamanism, altered states etc. Age 16 i learnt & induced lucid dreams & astral projection. 

Age 17 i was sat in a high secure psychiatric unit being very heavily medicated, after experiencing a very severe / extreme psychosis, & trying to work out what exactly happened since & trying to put it all right. 

 

i stopped all the drink / drugs age 28 & have been T-Total now for over 17 years. i won't go near any drink  drugs any more, but have continued to read / research all the alternative / fringe areas. 

i received this book this morning - 

 

Holy Daimon

Frater Acher

https://scarletimprint.com/publications/holy-daimon 

 

i have managed to collect well over 1 thousand books on comparative religion, spirituality, magick, esoteric & occult areas as well as science, philosophy & other subjects. 

 

 

[cpuusage]

28 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

 

I live in Northern Ireland but am from Aylesbury originally, we went on holiday in Dorset when I was a kid - lovely area. 

 

Aylesbury & Ireland are lovely areas as well.