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DSparrow: taper to avoid WD symptoms


DSparrow

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Hi jozeff,

 

Also, I hope someday enough research will allow the development some sort of interactive algorithm connected to the 3D printer so that everybody does not have to reinvent the wheel.  People will be able to taper themselves and it won't have to become their lives.  I can dream I guess!

 

Deanna 

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jozeff,

 

I'm also interested in extended fasting and I would like to see if rate of healing is sped up during a fast.  I just have not found a good time to attempt both a fast and antidepressant withdrawal.  I did I 3 day fast and I had an irritated finger which was probably an avulsion fracture.  On day three the healing was amazing.  I showed my boss my finger in the morning it was quite swollen and by the time I went home there was appreciable reduction in the swelling.  I wish I took pictures.  About 75% of one's immune system if related to eating and one's gut.  Also fasting activates autophagy.   My sensitivity to tapering is so high I'm not sure how much fasting could help.  I'm also too curious not to try it.  Also one needs less sleep when fasting.  I assume this is because the brain does not need to do as much "house cleaning".   This also makes me wonder if more healing is possible.

 

Deanna 

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Yes, in fact fasting helps with recovery.  I was fasted at three pm on Monday and was feeling good with starting a three day fast.  I cut 1% from my evening dose 1% from Tuesday dose and will cut another 1% for Wednesday.  I have no withdrawal symptoms yet from the med withdrawal.  Day three of a fast is much more healing than day one or two and I will assume it will go as day one and two.  For anyone interested there is lots of research on intermittent fasting online.  Lots of personal accounts of healing with movies about fasting, ted talks.  Dr Fung who cures people of diabetes in Toronto has a book on fasting and information on his IDM website as well as lots of you tube videos.  So please other than what happened to me happened to me don’t take my word for it that fasting is curative.

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I would suspect that fasting would be helpful for those with protracted withdrawal symptoms.  Yes, again please do your own research and consider that long extended fasts may need medical monitoring.  

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  • Moderator Emeritus

SA's discussion topic:  intermittent-fasting-to-grow-new-neurons

 

 * * * * * *   PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO   * * * * * *

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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Yes, intermittent fasting is great.  I have been intermittent fasting for six years.  It does not seem to be near as curative as an extended fast for me as I far as I have experienced fasting.  Last year I went on a three day fast for the first time.  I had an avulsion fracture on my finger which did not heal or show any progress of healing even after two months.  At the time I was fasting I finally made my doctors appointment to have it checked.  On day three of my fast my boss asked about my finger I showed him the injury and swelling.  He recommended I have checked by a doctor.  At the end of the day I looked at my finger and you could see marked reduction in swelling.  My finger continued to heal rather quickly after the fast.  The doctor said it was probably an avulsion fracture but that it looked like it was now healing fine.  I had been intermittent fasting for all that time and so I think based on my experiences that the two are considerably different with respect to intermittent fasting and extended fasting.  I will read your link. Thank You.  

 

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Yes, it increases BDNF.  Also exercise increases BDNF.  Here is the title of one paper Exercise promotes the expression of brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) through the action of the ketone body b- hydroxybutyrate.

 

The funny thing is I have eating a ketogenic diet for 1.5 years and so I have plenty of beta hydroxybutyrate but cannot taper very quickly.

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Hi dsparrow,

 

What intermittent fasting schedule do you have?

 

Of course food is very important for our well being. I've been trying a lot of thing to curey depression.

 

I try to not eat 14-15 hour a day. Let's say from 8 in the evening till next day 11 in the morning when I have 2 eggs for breakfast.

Around 1 in the afternoon I have this vegetable smoothy (kale, cottage cheese, honey, oat meal, vegetable oil etc. Worth About 500 Kcal.

 Then I have a banana and an apple and then diner around 6.

I also have 5 small cups of coffee.

 

Take some Mg, K, Li  and fish oil supplements as well.

 

Unfortunately I drink a lot of diet coke in the evening like 1 liter minimal. Sometimes 1500 ml.

Saturdays and Sundays I snack a lot....sweets, bread, chocolate, french fries etc..

 

Could it be that my brain has a hard time adjusting because I do 5 days fasting and 2 days binge eating.

 

Like to hear from your fasting!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

 

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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Hi Jozeff,

 

My intermittent fasting is pretty much the same as yours.  I eat dinner usually by six and most of the time I first eat around 11 or 12.  I tend to be a bit flexible but when I fall of the wagon I feel miserable much of the time.  I have sometimes used Valter Longo's idea of fasting mimicking at lunch.  You just keep your protein and carbs and calories below the level that will kick you out of autophagy.  I've been eating keto for about 1.5 years and have lost over 20 lbs.  I have been eating fairly healthy to lose weight.  I'm sure we all have food that make our lives worth living!  I don't really have anything interesting regarding IF other than I don't feel well if don't IF.  On Monday I ended up fasting until 3pm and still felt good and not hungry and so I decided to fast longer.  I'm typically Keto but unusually ate a high carb meal on Sunday night and so I'm suspicious that this caused my lack of hunger on Monday.  Occassionally I am able to fast from dinner to next dinner but not too often.  Binging Sunday night was the gluten free no sugar apple pie.  It was so good.  After being keto for over a year food tastes much sweeter.  Mandarin oranges are almost unbearably sweet.

 

My family tends to have autoimmune issues so I personally do not eat wheat.  Wheat is very aggravating to the gut and causes leaky gut and autoimmune issues.  Some people seem to handle wheat just fine.  Of course unless you have Celiac disease I'm sure even some reduction of wheat would be beneficial.  I used to have low thyroid and presumably autoimmune thyroid until I went wheat free.  Then magically the reactive hypoglycemia I had for 26 years went away and my TSH went from 3.7 to 1.62.  Why they did not treat me when I was clearly symptomatic for low thyroid and had a reactive hypoglycemia event where my blood sugar when below 40 mg/dl  I have no idea.

 

Shrug?

 

Deanna 

 

 

 

 

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You seem to know your stuff.

 

What do you think about my diet coke intake and aspartame?

 

Some evil browsing brought me to the connection between the FDA approval of aspartame and the introduction of Prozac....

 

The link between depression and artificial sweeteners is everywhere but there are an equal amount of studies that deny this.

 

 

Cheers and thanks for replying!

 

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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Hi Josef,

 

I would stay away from aspartame.  It an excitotoxin.  Studies have shown people who drink diet sodas gain more weight than regular soda drinkers.  I think Donald Trump is reported to drink something like 12 diet cokes a day.  You feel jazzed because the aspartame affects your brain.  I think too is that people when eat they don’t realize they are feeding a microbe community.  If you were going to try to grow bacteria say for a kids science fair project you probably would not be adding Diet Coke to the mix.

 

Remove an potentially offending item for a week or two then challenge yourself.  Repeat.  You may need to keep a somewhat detailed “diary” of moods energy levels etc.

 

Deanna

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Anybody that is interested in fasting this is my short shpeel.  I can find sources to verify statements here as well if you are interested.  

 

Lots of reasons fasting is good for you. About 70% of your immune system is spent taking care of the fact that you ate and have microbes in your gut. When you stop eating your body or immune system can attend to other things. Over the course of three days most of your immune cells are catabolized. They get regenerated upon refeeding. This is good - the cells are less autoimmune. Fasting initiates autophagy. When you are in autophagy your body will recycle cells or say amyloid proteins in the brain for reuse. Fasting is considered as probably preventative for alzheimer’s and cancer but you never can tell with cancer. There is a fellow in LA who studied giving a high chemo dose to mice in fasted state vs fed. It was a high dose. 30% of the fed mice survived the treatment. 100% of the fasted mice have survived. There are now personal accounts of people going for chemo in the fasted state with few side effects. You increase BDNF - brain derived nuerotrophic factor while fasting which will stimulate nueron growth. It completely changes a person’s mood. I was reading or trying to anyway that all neurotransmitters change during fasting. Fasting affects IGF-1 or insulin like growth factor. The longest living people are short and have genetically lost their ability to make IGF-1. We as a culture are busy building all the time eating protein. We don’t take time to allow the house we built to clean itself up. Just constant barrage of food. Why recycle amyloid protein in brain? The body already has way more than it can deal with. Fasting cures diabetes. Yes cures. You can lower your insulin and once your insulin is low a person can engage this strange pathway of burning fat to make ketones(gasp!). Oh wait anytime you burn fat it gets made into ketones by the liver. We all do it all the time unless we are diabetic. Mitochondria use ketones just fine and in fact burning ketones results in less free radicals than “burning sugar”. The mitochondria in the muscle cells can all pop fats in and burn them as well. Are you feeling that you have been misled yet by our modern culture?

 

Edited by ChessieCat
removed blue background
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Hi Dsparrow, 

 

I know a lot of people can’t fast when going through withdrawals but I find that intermittent fasting has always helped keep my blood sugar levels so stable. I was doing it for ages and then I stopped. I’ve started again. I don’t eat until noon n I don’t eat after five or six again now. I will make an exception if I go out to dinner with friends. 

 

You would think that not eating regularly would make you feel worse but I actually feel worse if I eat all day long. There are lots of things I don’t eat either such as grains and dairy.  Intermittent fasting helps keep my weight down too. I put on a lot of a weight when I was first put on seroquel years ago but intermittent fasting along with paleo made it drop off. I was actually on the autoimmune diet for years too. 

 

Thanks for the information on fasting. I’ve done a lot of study on intermittent fasting too. Having said that though I saw that it’s not really recommended for people going through withdrawals. Everyone is different though n I’ve had no problem with it. 

 

Sending sunshine your way☀️☀️☀️

 

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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Carmie,

 

I did not cut until after I was on my fast.  Fasting is hard but I like it better than withdrawal symptoms.  I have no idea why fasting would be bad for you even if you were going through withdrawal.  I was still prudent with the amount my cut, I think.  I new what I was in for if I stopped fasting and I had something to compare to.  I will have cut 5% now in what will be a 96 hour fast with no withdrawal symptoms.  I cut 5% of the same drug Aug 20th which to over a month to recover from.

 

This is a personal story.  Although I’m probably not from mars other folks would have to figure out maybe if they think it would work for them.  You are right though I’m putting this out into the void.  Fasting is not easy.  I suspect I will fast myself off the drugs.  I still suspect it will take many years still.  The fasting has helped me because I don’t feel this sense of anxiety that I’m on these drugs that if I don’t take I will be crippled.  I think folks who have unfortunately developed protracted withdrawal might be helped by extended fasting.  I don’t plan on getting protracted withdrawal but I never thought I would be addicted to drugs either.

 

I’m miserable too if I go off the IF.  I’m glad you found something that makes your life better.  🙂

 

Deanna

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Hi Dsparrow,

 

I did some math and research and compared citalopram dosage, receptor occupancy and time.

 

If I start tapering my 18 mg citalopram and I use Brass Monkeys slide method (4 weeks 2.5 % taper, 2 weeks hold) I will be tapering for years.

The relative decrease in receptor occupancy over time will be largest between 7 mg and 0.6 mg according to the graph. If I reduce my taper to 1.25 % per week between those dosages

the receptor occupancy will be more graduate and perhaps better to prevent WD symptoms.

 

I would like to adjust the dose to receptor occupancy but that seems to be complicated. This is just a concept. Just trying some stuff. Of course we have to listen to our bodies and let that be the leading factor!

 

 

 

Edited by Altostrata
deleted attachment at request of poster

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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Hi Jozeff,

 

It sounds like a good plan!  Yes, it will be a few years.

 

I think I will be fasting off my meds.  I dropped 5% of wellbutrin on 4 day fast with no withdrawal symptoms.  It is hard to plan when to fit in a fast.  I have no plan anymore for tapering.  I don't even really know how much I could drop in a fasted state.  

 

I was quite upset being on two drugs that would disable me if I stopped taking them and the number of years or decades with mild withdrawal symptoms.  I might work hard fasting for it bit since it seems to work to get my meds down quicker so that the drug dependency won't make me so anxious.  I guess I can also work on that last ten pounds or so and work on tightening up loose skin which is said to happen if you are repeatedly fasting and in autophagy.  When I am done with that last ten pounds refeeding will be lots more fun!

 

Shrug?

 

Deanna

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Jozeff,

 

How are things going?

 

I think a two day fast with 6% drop initial dose is the most I can drop without having withdrawal symptoms.  That’s very approximately a 20X rate of healing/recovery fasting when compared to non-fasting.  I’m down 15% of the Wellbutrin initial dose since beginning to fast.

 

As an added perk that four day fast “removed” the half inch or so of skin that hung over my c-section scar for 23 years.  I have a hard time now being bitter about the AD WD since it convinced me to fast for four days.

 

I’m now working on dropping Prozac during fasts.  Since it has a long half-life it will need to be handled differently so that the drop happens during the fast.  If I drop, to make things easy, 1 mg total med including filler say starting at 200 mg I will need to drop to 193mg for one day during the fast and then sustain at 199mg until the next cut.  If one was going to drop 2mg over a two day fast one could take 193 mg for two days and the sustain at 198mg.  This seems to work fine with no withdrawal symptoms as well but I have not pushed getting off the Prozac as much as the Wellbutrin.  I think I want get off the Wellbutrin moreso and then work on the Prozac but if I’m not having any withdrawal symptoms.......

 

DSparrow

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I lost three pounds too in the four day fast.  I gained it back though eating seafood, Mexican food, and French food on vacation in Santa Barbara.  I can’t say it wasn’t fun!

 

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HI Carmie,

 

Maybe Intermittent Fasting did not work for me with my antidepressant withdrawal because I am always taking my meds in the morning when the magic of a fast happens.  If you have that window in the morning when you are in autophagy after 16+ hours of fasting I was totally missing it.  Perhaps if I don't take my meds until noon I could better utilize intermittent fasting?

 

DSparrow

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Hi Jozeff,

 

Maybe your withdrawal would be less if you took your meds at noon with lunch since you intermittent fast anyway?!?  This would mean your body dose of antidepressant would be lowest while you would get the most benefit of the fast?  Shrug?

 

DSparrow

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Hi Jozeff,

 

Perhaps we are poor responders to AD WD because of the intermitant fasting.  Our bodies may be adapting to the higher antidepressant dose with in say hours 16 to 18 of the fast at a higher rate than we can adapt to the lower doses.  

 

This is is based on my assumption that the brain is continually adjusting to cope with current conditions.  The needing four days for the body to notice a change may be urban legend.  I have not seen data to support the four day hypothesis.  My body does not seem to work this way at all.

 

It doesn’t take the body four days to realize you are exercising and make changes.  It doesn’t take the body four days to realize your blood sugar is low.  It doesn’t take four days for the body to respond to an attacker.

 

Deanna

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  • Moderator Emeritus
8 hours ago, DSparrow said:

HI Carmie,

 

Maybe Intermittent Fasting did not work for me with my antidepressant withdrawal because I am always taking my meds in the morning when the magic of a fast happens.  If you have that window in the morning when you are in autophagy after 16+ hours of fasting I was totally missing it.  Perhaps if I don't take my meds until noon I could better utilize intermittent fasting?

 

DSparrow

 

Hi DSparrow, 

 

I know you love your intermittent fasting but as I’ve read on this site it’s not always a good idea in withdrawals. As regards taking your meds in the morning, that doesn’t actually break the fast, there aren’t enough calories. 

 

I dont eat breakfast n I don’t eat after six or seven pm, unless I’m out with friends. 

 

I was intermittent fasting for years, for most of the time that I got my meds from 300mg to 7.5mg. I had put on so much weight from the seroquel but that and the autoimmune diet made it fall off. 

 

I find intermittent fasting really helps my blood sugar levels but I’m not recommending it as it may do more harm than good for people going through withdrawals. Everyone has to find what works for them.

 

Take care💚

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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Hi Carmie,

 

Sorry for the thought.  It seemed a small adjustment that might help, that all.  I must have misinterpreted your post on my profile as an interest in fasting.

 

I don't have withdrawal symptoms anymore so I can avoid this website and stop bothering people.

 

Admin - you are welcome to delete my account if you would like.  Thanks.

 

DSparrow

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Hi DSparrow,

 

Thanks for your input. I was very interesed in your tapering/fasting story. I would understand if you'd leave but your input is always welcome.

 

Good luck and have a nice day!

 

 

 

jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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Hi Jozeff,

 

Thanks....

 

I might be better off posting about my saggy belly skin on FB Loose skin and autophagy page.  At least there I can have a few minutes of fame with 98 reactions - Ha Ha.

 

I hope you have a great day too!

 

Deanna

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  • Moderator Emeritus
2 hours ago, DSparrow said:

Hi Carmie,

 

Sorry for the thought.  It seemed a small adjustment that might help, that all.  I must have misinterpreted your post on my profile as an interest in fasting.

 

I don't have withdrawal symptoms anymore so I can avoid this website and stop bothering people.

 

Admin - you are welcome to delete my account if you would like.  Thanks.

 

DSparrow

 

Hi DSparrow, 

 

No need to leave. I have no problem with intermittent fasting myself. I am quite interested in it. I’m doing it now. Was just mentioning that some people going through withdrawals might have a problem with it. I’ve always found it beneficial myself. 

 

That’s so wonderful you no longer have withdrawals. Good for you. 

 

Have a happy day☀️☀️

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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Hi Carmie,

 

Thanks.  

 

I probably still have no reason to be here to annoy people and my problem is solved.

 

Thanks for you your kind reply. 

 

Deanna

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Jozeff,

 

it might make make more sense to calculate healing rate of synapse.  If I can drop 3% of Prozac per fasting-day when the drug is between 10 mg and 20mg which is 50% of the drug and approximately 10 % of the Sert.  One can then very roughly calculate that my synapse healing rate to be at 0.6 % per fasting-day.   One could then use the formula to calculate back the amount of drug that will free up 0.6% of synapse.

 

I’ve been fasting and I’m down to under 10 mg Prozac (ai) and under 40mg (ai) of Wellbutrin.  I now need to lower my cuts of Wellbutrin as I’m getting wd symptoms.  Headaches I always get headaches with Wellbutrin.  

 

There is is a new report out from a survey in the UK.

 

 

Deanna

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Hi dsparrow,

 

Thanks for your reply. 

 

Interesting to read the article. Not very hopeful though...

 

I feel miserable some days and the waiting for relief takes so long..

 

Have a nice day!!

 

 

Jozeff

- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

- Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

- April 2018 -  June 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

- June 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 weeks, felt absolutely awful.

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose). Try to stabilize.-

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg / 

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg

 

 

 

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Hi Jozeff,

 

Yeah I'm sorry about that..  the withdrawal.  I have been reminded of its power again this week and of the long way I have to go.  Yes, the article on one hand is supportive in that we can say yes what we experience is real and we can prove it.  On the other hand it is discouraging because it is really as bad as we say it is and we are in the thick of it.

 

I'm wondering if the fasting increase in BDNF causes the increased rate of "healing".  If so there should be other things as well that perhaps that would increase BDNF?  Fasting is okay.  I gets tiring sometimes but is better than withdrawal.  Do you know anything about BDNF?

 

https://www.naturalstacks.com/blogs/news/76618565-why-bdnf-is-miracle-gro-for-your-brain

 

Deanna

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  • 1 month later...

Send to

 
 
Fasting allows the body to heal and increases BDNF much more that any other activity.  This is a tool a lot of suffering people could use.  It is sad that is being overlooked.  Fasting is as old as the hills and has been used for millenia for healing.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2015 Jan;40(1):96-8. doi: 10.1139/apnm-2014-0290.

Fasting and exercise differentially regulate BDNF mRNA expression in human skeletal muscle.

Abstract

Brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) gene expression was measured in human skeletal muscle following 3 intensities of exercise and a 48-h fast. No change in BDNF mRNA was observed following exercise, while fasting upregulated BDNF by ∼ 3.5-fold. These changes were dissociated from changes in peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma coactivator 1 alpha (PGC-1α) following exercise (+2- to 15-fold) and fasting (∼-25%). These results challenge our understanding of the response of BDNF to energetic stress and highlight the importance of future work in this area.

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On 10/13/2018 at 10:29 AM, ChessieCat said:

Please create your drug signature as requested.  this allows us to see your drug history at a glance.  Thank you.

 

To help us out please create your drug signature.

  • details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
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Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Please create your drug signature.  It appears below every post you make and allows members to see your drug history.

 

 * * * * * *   PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO   * * * * * *

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

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  • 2 months later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Dsparrow, 

 

How are you doing?💚

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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