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JimH: Just another taper planner


JimH

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Hi,

 

This is my very first post.

 

After I tapered off Clonazepam back in Aug 2017, I wrote an application for users of Benzodiazepines to prepare by themselves their own taper plan. As it seems that some users found it useful, I adapted the code to be used with antidepressant in general. A number of information from this site has been used to complete the work. Here it is: http://antdep.alwaysdata.net/ . Hope it can help someone.

 

Any comment or bugs signaling will be most appreciated.

  • Given clonazepam (Rivotril) for Rapid Eye Movement (REM) Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD). Started with 0.5mg/night as from Nov 2013.
  • First taper initiated Nov 2016 after heart troubles led to ER. Taper dose: 1 drop (0.1 mg)/month. 10 days after last drop, reinstated to 0.5 mg following nocturnal creeping sensations in leg.
  • Second tentative in May 2017. Quickly went down to 0.2 mg in few days with no symptoms. Last 0.1 mg tapered via liquid taper (1+9) and reduction of 1/10 every average 2 weeks. Last dose taken Aug 12, 2017.
  • After 7 months honeymoon, huge wave following massive use of Melatonin (5 mg) asked by sleep doctor.
  • Recovered 65-70% after 14 months, still with lingering eyes floaters.
  • Completely functional in the daily life.
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  • ChessieCat changed the title to JimH: Just another taper planner
  • Administrator

Welcome, JimH.

 

How did you go off clonazepam? Did you get withdrawal symptoms? How are you feeling now?

 

Thanks for the taper calculator. We have several people very much interested in developing such a thing.

 

Att: @DoctorMussyWasHere @DanS @Shep

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Administrator

Hi, Jim.

 

Was clonazepam your only drug or are you also dealing with other drugs? 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

  • Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

Please continue to use this thread to document your withdrawal and to ask questions. 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Hi Altostrata,

 

Thanks for asking.

 

1. Given clonazepam (Rivotril) for Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD). Insufficiently informed about side effects and not informed at all about dependency/withdrawal. Started with 0.5 mg/night as from Nov 2013.
First taper initiated Nov 2016 after heart troubles led to ER. Taper dose: 1 drop (0.1 mg)/month. 10 days after last drop, reinstated to 0.5 mg following nocturnal creeping sensations in leg. 
Second tentative in May 2017. Last 0.1 mg tapered via liquid (1+9) and 1/10 cut every average 2 weeks.  
Last dose taken Aug 12, 2017.

 

2. Followed 7 months of honeymoon where light symptoms (memory, skin itch, nightly cold, numb leg...) were very manageable. Functional in the daily life. Then doctor asked to take Melatonin in a very large dose (5 mg first week, 10 mg second week). First wave ever after 10 days. Symptoms like head pressure, loss of balance, troubled vision led doctor to think of brain cancer. Cleared with MRI. It lasted about 1 month or more.

 

3. After 14 months I'm 65-70% recovered. Tinnitus quite bearable as no longer noticed. Eye floaters with peripheral flashes are still there after 7 months. Eyes specialist scheduled every 3 months.

 

4. As for the app, I tapered off benzo with advice from benzobuddies.org . What surprised me was that even a worldwide known support site like this with over 45'000 members does not have a simple tool to save taperers from the hassle of math or spreadsheet. A couple of knowledgeable buddies actually provide a schedule for each request.  As I think the time they spent for this tedious task could have been used for other more value-added assistance, I decided to give back with a small application. For members of that forum it is: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/ . (video 

 

Lastly a member asked in the forum if the same app can be used to taper an antidepressant. So I decided to adapt the code to produce a version for antidepressant. The idea is to let every taperer, whichever horizon they come from, to produce by themselves with a few guidance their own taper plan, print it and have it sticked on the kitchen cupboard to follow, with a certain discipline, the progress in their journey towards freedom.

 

Hope I answered your questions.

  • Given clonazepam (Rivotril) for Rapid Eye Movement (REM) Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD). Started with 0.5mg/night as from Nov 2013.
  • First taper initiated Nov 2016 after heart troubles led to ER. Taper dose: 1 drop (0.1 mg)/month. 10 days after last drop, reinstated to 0.5 mg following nocturnal creeping sensations in leg.
  • Second tentative in May 2017. Quickly went down to 0.2 mg in few days with no symptoms. Last 0.1 mg tapered via liquid taper (1+9) and reduction of 1/10 every average 2 weeks. Last dose taken Aug 12, 2017.
  • After 7 months honeymoon, huge wave following massive use of Melatonin (5 mg) asked by sleep doctor.
  • Recovered 65-70% after 14 months, still with lingering eyes floaters.
  • Completely functional in the daily life.
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23 hours ago, Shep said:

Hi, Jim.

 

Was clonazepam your only drug or are you also dealing with other drugs? 

Hi Shep,

 

It was. And it largely sufficed!😅

 

Thanks for asking.

  • Given clonazepam (Rivotril) for Rapid Eye Movement (REM) Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD). Started with 0.5mg/night as from Nov 2013.
  • First taper initiated Nov 2016 after heart troubles led to ER. Taper dose: 1 drop (0.1 mg)/month. 10 days after last drop, reinstated to 0.5 mg following nocturnal creeping sensations in leg.
  • Second tentative in May 2017. Quickly went down to 0.2 mg in few days with no symptoms. Last 0.1 mg tapered via liquid taper (1+9) and reduction of 1/10 every average 2 weeks. Last dose taken Aug 12, 2017.
  • After 7 months honeymoon, huge wave following massive use of Melatonin (5 mg) asked by sleep doctor.
  • Recovered 65-70% after 14 months, still with lingering eyes floaters.
  • Completely functional in the daily life.
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  • Administrator

I'm so glad that clonazepam was your only drug. As you can see by reading over the Intros, that is very unusual these days, so it's good to see someone who wasn't harmed by polypharmacy. 

 

Your experience with melatonin sounds like it was related to the dose being way too high. Just 0.25 mg - .5 mg is enough and taking more generally leads to a paradoxical reaction (Melatonin for sleep).  

 

Another member, DoctorMussyWasHere, posted about a tapering calculator here:

 

Tapering calculator at ReversePsychiatry.org

 

Please start a thread in the Tapering section so that members can try out your calculator, view the video, and ask questions:

 

Tapering

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

You mentioned suffering from eye floaters. Please see:

 

Vision symptoms: floaters, snow, blurred/dimmed vision, twitching and pain

 

And if you're experiencing other symptoms, there's the non-drug coping skills section with lots of great information on ways to aid healing naturally and mindfully:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

I'm so glad to read that at 14 months off, you are 65-70% recovered and in your signature, you write "completely functional in the daily life" which is so good to read. I hope you will post a success story once you feel you are getting to that point and let us know more about your recovery and the insights you've gained.

 

Success stories: Recovery from withdrawal

 

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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4 hours ago, Shep said:

Please start a thread in the Tapering section so that members can try out your calculator, view the video, and ask questions...

Hi Shep,

 

Done!

 

Many thanks for the excellent package of information! 

  • Given clonazepam (Rivotril) for Rapid Eye Movement (REM) Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD). Started with 0.5mg/night as from Nov 2013.
  • First taper initiated Nov 2016 after heart troubles led to ER. Taper dose: 1 drop (0.1 mg)/month. 10 days after last drop, reinstated to 0.5 mg following nocturnal creeping sensations in leg.
  • Second tentative in May 2017. Quickly went down to 0.2 mg in few days with no symptoms. Last 0.1 mg tapered via liquid taper (1+9) and reduction of 1/10 every average 2 weeks. Last dose taken Aug 12, 2017.
  • After 7 months honeymoon, huge wave following massive use of Melatonin (5 mg) asked by sleep doctor.
  • Recovered 65-70% after 14 months, still with lingering eyes floaters.
  • Completely functional in the daily life.
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  • Moderator Emeritus
19 minutes ago, JimH said:

Thanks. Could the above include the psychological aspect where taperers must go down to zero mg otherwise they don't feel healed?

 

I'm posting this here so that the other topic stays on topic.

 

This is my personal experience with trying to reduce my drug.  I think my experience is helpful because I had a benchmark.

 

I tried to reduce my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg and for 3 weeks I experienced extreme cog fog.  Even walking took all of my concentration.  At the end of three weeks I couldn't type.  Because I've been a professional typist for 40+ years I knew that something was wrong.  Thankfully I had joined SA a few days before this happened and they had suggested I take extra Pristiq.  When I couldn't type I took extra and about 4 hours later I was able to type again.  Only 4 hours.  And the cog fog started to lift.  There was no way in the world that it was psychological.

 

After several months I started tapering following SA's protocol and I am now down to 6mg.  It's taken me 3 years and it is going to take about 2 more years to get off completely.  However, even though I have experienced withdrawal symptoms they have usually been mild.

 

This member is having difficulty getting her dose lower (Citalopram ) and Alto has made this suggestion:

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

LIzzzy, it could be that at dosages less than 5.75mg, your system is metabolizing the drug so fast, its half-life is less than the usual 35 hours.

 

One way to overcome this is to split the dose. If you take part at a later time, you might be able to cover 24 hours at a level acceptable to your nervous system.

 

My compounding pharmacist told me about a person who had trouble getting off and took 1 year to get off 1mg citalopram.

 MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    13 November 2021 -  0mg Pristiq      

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq   

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  I do not provide tapering advice via PM.  Please post questions in your Introduction topic.  Please do not tag me for any reason.  I am an unpaid volunteer and assist members if I am able to and when I have the time.  Thank you for your understanding.

Mid Nov 2021 changed to low carb diet due to diabetes & cholesterol.  Lost 1/16 body weight, BP has reduced a lot. 

Links to my exercises and weights.  I also do 3 x 5.5 min with HIIT on exercise bike with 20 secs/min as fast as I can cycle.

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  • Moderator

Hi JimH,

I moved your question on What is the rationale...... over to tapering.  And out of Introductions and updates.

One introduction per member is the rule.  Your introduction page is a place for you to introduce yourself to the community, ask questions specific to your situation, communicate with other members, as well as post updates on your specific situation.

It seemed to be more of a general question around tapering.

So there's that.

Congrats on your success and thank you so much for your inquisitiveness,interest, and contributions to this field.

Honored.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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Hi manymoretodays,

 

Thanks. I slowly start to learn how to go around in this new house. Hope not to be lost too often...😅

  • Given clonazepam (Rivotril) for Rapid Eye Movement (REM) Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD). Started with 0.5mg/night as from Nov 2013.
  • First taper initiated Nov 2016 after heart troubles led to ER. Taper dose: 1 drop (0.1 mg)/month. 10 days after last drop, reinstated to 0.5 mg following nocturnal creeping sensations in leg.
  • Second tentative in May 2017. Quickly went down to 0.2 mg in few days with no symptoms. Last 0.1 mg tapered via liquid taper (1+9) and reduction of 1/10 every average 2 weeks. Last dose taken Aug 12, 2017.
  • After 7 months honeymoon, huge wave following massive use of Melatonin (5 mg) asked by sleep doctor.
  • Recovered 65-70% after 14 months, still with lingering eyes floaters.
  • Completely functional in the daily life.
Link to comment

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