Chilout: Slide off Seroxat?

[Chilout]

hi, I have a question. I have been tapering 10% every 2nd week. I got liquid form of Seroxat and I started on 10ml. The withdrawals were terrible, I lost 15kilo, could not sleep etc. But I managed to go down and currently I am taking 1.5ml of the liquid. 2 weeks ago I was in 1.8 I went down to 1.5 and have no withdrawals at all, feeling great. My husband suggest that maybe this amount of medication may not  have any effect on my body.  Do u have any experience nor knowledge about it? Is it possible that they stopped affecting my body? Or  is it just quiet before the storm? Thanks

 

 

On 4/22/2018 at 8:07 PM, brassmonkey said:

The Brassmonkey Slide Method

 

Starting a taper can be a very scary proposition.  I’ve heard is mentioned repeatedly by our new members and even by members who have been on extended holds and are about to restart. The overwhelming concern is fear of the symptoms that can be unleashed by reducing the drug in question.  I was as bad as anyone else, I was scared to death before I started my taper, and just for that reason.

 

Most of us try to research our taper before we start, so we can make a plan and have some idea what we are getting ourselves into. That research often includes reading a lot of other people’s stories, which can be very upsetting.  This can be a source of a lot of misinformation, out of context statements and vivid details that are hard to ignore.  Which is why we have a large number of forums that give detailed information of how, when and why to taper.

 

The symptoms that are experienced during a taper can be far from pleasant and keeping them at a minimum is a prime goal of any taper plan. With this in mind, the protocol of reducing a person’s dose by 10% of the previous dose every four (4) weeks was established.  Over the years it has proven to be a good starting point and has been very effective for many people.  It does, however, prove to be too harsh for others.

 

The second option is the “micro-taper”.  This involves reducing a tiny amount every few days over a very long time.  It does a great job of reducing symptoms but is very tedious and takes a very long time to complete.  There needs to be something in between.  Something that can reduce the effects of the symptoms and yet doesn’t take forever to complete.  This is where the Brassmonkey Slide Method comes in.

 

The idea behind the Brassmonkey Slide Method is to maintain the speed of a standard 10% taper while reducing the symptom load by taking the reductions in smaller bits.  When I was researching my taper, I observed that there was a large hit of symptoms that occurred several days after the reduction was made.  These symptoms would then peak and decrease over the next several weeks until the person would return to an average state of feeling bad.  My idea was that if the reduction were taken in smaller pieces fairly close together you would experience reduced symptoms for a shorter period of time and by doing reductions back to back, as the symptoms resolved, a person could maintain a 10% reduction and experience reduced symptoms.

 

The basic Brassmonkey Slide Method consists of four (4) weekly reductions of 2.5% in a row with an additional two (2) week hold.  This gives a total reduction of 10% ever six (6) weeks.  Although it isn’t the standard reduction plan it is very close.  The extra two (2) week hold is very necessary to let the cumulative effects of the four (4) reductions settle out and things return to baseline before attempting the next reduction.

 

So, the reduction schedule looks like this:

 

            Week 1 reduce 2.5%

            Week 2 reduce an additional 2.5% (for a total of 5%)

            Week 3 reduce an additional 2.5% (for a total of 7.5%)

            Week 4 reduce an additional 2.5% (for a total of 10%)

            Weeks 5,6 Hold at the last reduction level

 

This schedule proved very effective for the duration of my taper and has been used by many others with great success.  But, it’s not the only way to do it.

 

Some people find that even on this schedule the symptom spike after each drop is just too great.  For them the answer has been to take even smaller reductions.  Any combination of four (4) small reductions and a hold can be used. A reduction of 1.25% a week will yield a total drop of 5% or a reduction of 0.625% would give a total drop of 2.5%.  A very popular method is to reduce by 1% a week. 

 

We need to keep in mind though, the lower the reduction percentage the longer the taper will take to complete. The half-life of a standard 10% taper is six months.  Meaning that six months from now you will be at half of your current dose. If the taper is reduced to 5% the half life doubles to a year. Like wise a 2.5% taper would have a half-life of two years.

 

No matter what the reduction rate is it is very important to maintain the two (2) week hold every round of four (4) reductions. The symptoms that we feel after a drop are only a small part of what is happening to us.  Psych drugs work by making physical changes to the body.  As we taper these changes need to be undone in an orderly manner, so the body can continue to function the way it is meant to.  If we don’t allow time for these changes to be made properly they pile up and pile up until there are just too many of them.  The body then gets very confused and a crash occurs.  That crash will take a long time to correct and stabilize.

 

This behind the scenes repair work is one of the keys to the Brassmonkey Slide Method.  By making smaller reductions the bodies “to do” list is kept to a manageable size and most of the tasks can be completed before the next reduction happens.  Giving the body an extra two (2) weeks helps make sure it has enough time to get it all done. If the reduction is too large then the “to do “ list is also quite large and the body has a much tougher time getting started on the jobs and figuring out what to do first.

 

Another benefit to the Brassmonkey Slide Method is that it feels like it is very proactive.  I see a lot of comments from members who feel like they are not doing enough to help themselves get better.  Making any decision and sticking to it is being proactive with a taper but the long periods of time between decisions can cause people to lose track of that.  By making a controlled reduction in dose every week it makes it appear that things are progressing faster, even though the total reduction is the standard 10%.  This can be quite a boost for people who “want to take control of the situation”.

 

With all these changes being made it is a good idea to keep written records.  This will help track your progress, but it will also help keep things from getting confused.  With a constantly changing dose it is very easy to lose track of where you are and start making mistakes.  The records don’t have to be elaborate. I tracked the date of the reduction, the amount of the reduction, the strength of the dose in mgai and the weight that I would measure on the scales in mgpw, on a weekly basis.

 

Mgai, milligrams active ingredient, being the strength of the dose starting with the full strength listed on the bottle and reduced by the percentage of the reduction each week, i.e.33.2mgai.  While mgpw, milligrams pill weight, being the weight of the dose that is measured on the scales, starting with the weight of a whole tablet and decreased by the percentage of the reduction each week, i.e.265mgpw.

 

Example: October 23; 2.5%; 33.2mgai; 265mgpw

 

As with any taper it takes a long time to get off these drugs.  Using the Brassmonkey Slide Method is a way to keep that time as short and as painless as possible, while maintaining a feeling of control and allowing your body to make the changes necessary to heal in an orderly fashion.

 

See also:

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

Making a liquid from a tablet or capsules .

Using a digital scale to measure doses.

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Chilout.

 

I moved your post here to start your Introductions topic, where you can ask questions about your taper and track your progress. Please click on the Follow button at the upper right of this thread to get notifications of new posts here.

 

How much Seroxat are you taking now?

 

It seems you have been tapering too fast. If I were you, I'd stop tapering for a while, let your nervous system settle down. We advocate a 10% reduction every month. See Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

What are your withdrawal symptoms?

[Chilout]

I am taking 1.5mil which is about 2mg. I started to lower my dosage faster because lately I had very mild withdrawal symptoms . At the beginning it was terrible, classical brain zaps, irrigation, stomach pain, could not sleep and the list goes and goes...but I noticed after I went below 1.9 mil the symptoms kind of started to be less severe. And now even if I reduced my dosage more then usually I still have no withdrawals. I wake up every morning expecting to feel terrible as I am so use to it but still nothing.  It's been 17 days with very mild symptoms. Ijust wanted to know if any of you have similar experience. Did you all went down to 0.1 and then stopped? Or is there a minimum amount of the medication when it stops having effects? Thanks

[Altostrata]

Please read Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

 

If I were you, I'd stop tapering for a couple of months, give your nervous system a rest. It sounds like it's been through a lot.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Sebas]

Hi Chilout,

 

Just wanted to let you know that i'm a little jealous about how far you've already come! 😊

So the Brassmonkey way was helpful? At what amount did you start with this method? It might be something for me to considerate.

 

I posted my first introduction an hour ago,

bye Sebas

[Chilout]

hi Sebas, I am so happy I manged to go down so much. I started in 2016 on 10ml. I started as my GP instructed me but it was waaaay too fast. He said I can wean of 10ml Seroxat within a month. O lord, he has no idea how hard it is but thanks god  he is willing to prescribe me the medication as long as I need it. at the beginning I went down 5 mil, i felt terrible i am sure you know exactly how terrible. I went up again and down again.... 

Then I realised i am not gonna make it all by myself and started to look for any information about tapering and then I realised I have to go down slowly and never go back up. If I felt extremely bad I just stayed longer on that dose until I felt good enough. end I always did , sometimes it took even a month to feel better. 

Then I came across the information that I should lower 10 percent every two weeks. So I started to do so and it was way better. I went with this method the longest way, to my current 1.5 ml. 

It is a long way before you but you can do it. Its like you are going up the steep hill, the wind is blowing you from side to side, it is slippery and you slide a bit down but you still get up and clime that hill. you  can take a rest on your way up, regroup and continue.

Why did you start taking seroxat?  For me it was anxiety and panic attacks.  

I think you should go 10 percent every two weeks, I did work for me the best. 

And Dr Claire weeks is veeeery helpful. I do not have her books but I listen to her audio books on you tube. For me the best psychological help \i have ever got.

good luck

Let me know how you doing so far

[Sebas]

3 hours ago, Chilout said:

hi Sebas, I am so happy I manged to go down so much. I started in 2016 on 10ml. I started as my GP instructed me but it was waaaay too fast. He said I can wean of 10ml Seroxat within a month. O lord, he has no idea how hard it is but thanks god  he is willing to prescribe me the medication as long as I need it. at the beginning I went down 5 mil, i felt terrible i am sure you know exactly how terrible. I went up again and down again.... 

Then I realised i am not gonna make it all by myself and started to look for any information about tapering and then I realised I have to go down slowly and never go back up. If I felt extremely bad I just stayed longer on that dose until I felt good enough. end I always did , sometimes it took even a month to feel better. 

Then I came across the information that I should lower 10 percent every two weeks. So I started to do so and it was way better. I went with this method the longest way, to my current 1.5 ml. 

It is a long way before you but you can do it. Its like you are going up the steep hill, the wind is blowing you from side to side, it is slippery and you slide a bit down but you still get up and clime that hill. you  can take a rest on your way up, regroup and continue.

Why did you start taking seroxat?  For me it was anxiety and panic attacks.  

I think you should go 10 percent every two weeks, I did work for me the best. 

And Dr Claire weeks is veeeery helpful. I do not have her books but I listen to her audio books on you tube. For me the best psychological help \i have ever got.

good luck

Let me know how you doing so far

Hi just read your reply (by accident!) cause i got no message.

I went up 0,1 ml a couple of days ago, felt like i couldn't go to work this week.

The day after i felt a little better (although it should take 4 days for your body to registrate the changes). Perhaps this was the stabilisation after 9 weeks.

I had no faith it would come.

 

Due to the fact that work and housing isn't realy stable, i'm finding steps of 3-4% heavy enough already. And i'm condisering the brassmonkey way.

 

I started after burnout in 2004, after period of stress (also one or two panic attacks although i'm quite relaxed by nature).

And feeling depressed caused by this situation. My main complaint is feeling a little restless in general. This causes unnecessary loss of energy.

 

Did you ever take a small step back? And did the regroup moments differ from eachother ( i mean sometimes 2 weeks, sometimes more etc.).

I think it's also caused by the general circumstances in life that your central nerve system can sometimes handle more than at other moments.

 

Bye Sebas

 

 

 

[Chilout]

Yes, I did take lots of steps back at the beginning , meaning I went on higher dose when I thought that the withdrawals are actually not withdrawals but my anxiety comming back. I thought I was not ready yet for smaller dose. Now I never go back, I go slow and steady. 

The regrouping is always different. It is usually 2 , 3 weeks. The longest one was almost 2months of feeling sh*tty, but it passed and I was stable enough to continue. 

As I mentioned as soon as I went to 1.8 the withdrawals started to be less severe and now I had no withdrawals for 20 days and I feel perfect. Yesterday morning I felt a bit sick but it went better in the afternoon.  So I think I am experiencing my first "window" that people here are talking about.

Do you feel that Seroxat helped you with your problems? 

 

[Sebas]

@Chilout yes i would say in those days it certainly provided a solution for my problems, if I had known however what was ahead of me, then i would have definitely contemplated an alternative. GP was actually very honest in those days saying he wasn't aware of the possible long term effects. And insisting after a few years to try to phase. But the theory wasn't clear at the time otherwise i guess tapering would have started (and probably ended) much earlier. Until today GP and also psychiatrists (i've never spoken one but i think so) are absolutely unaware of the whole tapering and withdrawal theory. So i'm happy to have found this website and it's also pleasant to exchange experiences.

 

What actually helped me more allthough was a bit of personal coaching, not very dramatic but just someone who can relate to your issues.

And shows you your pitfalls.

 

Experiencing windows is a good thing! Feeling sick for moments or days does also occur in regular life just kidding. I can imagine it's a bit exciting to be (almost) fully sober. (Micro)tapering should have managed that process for the most. And i must say sometimes particular supplements can help a lot. Today I took 1 magnesium and felt better after.

 

And what helps me is just some micro fitness exercises. Not very intensive, for half an hour, i always feel stronger (in body and mind) afterwords.

 

Ciao

[Sebas]

@Chilout you might also wanna read this sub that was recommended to me today. It concerns some theory about the last phase below 1 mg.