Tom37: Lexapro taper

[Tom37]

Thanks for that.....actually Tuesday down here in NZ so not a Monday thing. I think I just find it so frustrating that I can’t currently do the things that I use to always do like golf, running and gym, hiking etc so that gets me down a bit when it’s just work and normal daily stuff. But just one of those days I guess but at least i

 improving physically anyway. Just need to keep working on accepting situation and have belief it will end. Just hard though when it’s wd causing the thoughts.

 

The memories sure are a strange one. Mine are always good memories so that’s I guess a good thing. 

 

Hopefuy your trip with the wife goes well. Can’t imagine going away feeling like I do even though would love too. Definitely tough on our partners dealing with us going through this.

[Tom37]

Another night like I have been having....waking after two hours etc.

 

Internal aching type symptom flared up quite a lot since yesterday afternoon. Not the flu type feeling but still not pleasant. Also being going tingle/shivering type feeling over my body....kinda like when someone walks over your grave type feeling.

 

So I think my run of better days has come to an end so pretty down about everything at the moment. Worn out but this situation big time.

 

 

[Tom37]

Survived another day....was more of a tougher day today. Mainly as I felt a bit shaky at my desk like I was ill even though didn’t fell ill and had a weird head. Also kept tingling all over and would get all goosy even though it’s summer. The wobbly/out of sync/shaky feeling was also there. Because of the extra symptoms today it made things tougher mentally as it demoralises you after feeling ‘better’. Did some reading of a few success stories to remind myself this is temporary. Although still hard to believe it.

 

I dont understand how many mutations of a ‘weird head’ you can get. It feels like it’s never ending!

 

Only positive today was that the internal aching wasn’t there at all.

 

Hopefully maybe will have a better sleep and feel better tomorrow.

 

 

[Tom37]

Another night of 5 or so hours of interrupted sleep....no issue going to sleep but staying asleep is the issue. Plenty of dreams again.

 

Feeling not that great this morning. Just feel like I’m a bit ill but it’s wd. Not flu like feeling like in the past just unwell. Starting feeling it a bit last night so went to bed about 8pm just to watch bit if tv and relax which is not like me. So not surprising feeling it this morning.

 

Was reading  yesterday about getting stable and I guess after my crash 2 or 3 months was being too optimistic especially if it takes 4 to 6 weeks after a normal drop to let everything stabilise. Hopefully though even if I’m not stable that the symptoms do lessen in severity. You would think that would happen but logic and wd don’t seen to go together.

 

if I just only either had physical symptoms but was sleeping fine and no mental wd issues or physically fine but not sleeping well then would be a lot easier to tolerate but all three at once makes it tough.

[DaveB]

Tom, I am sorry you find yourself waving a bit again. Hopefully it will be short lived. I am right there with you man, sorry you are going through it but know that I get it and I am thinking of you.

[mdwstrx]

3 hours ago, Tom37 said:

Hopefully though even if I’m not stable that the symptoms do lessen in severity. You would think that would happen but logic and wd don’t seen to go together.

First, so sorry 'It's' back but I would think it's a good sign that you've had long windows.  Stay positive knowing that you have over 2 months BEHIND you. 🙏 The windows and waves pattern link on this site mentions that symptoms do lessen in severity but many of the posts relate from a protracted rather than acute withdrawal perspective. Those, of course, talk in terms of years.  However, if reinstatement/up dosing is successful, it's my impression that we're talking months most often.   Not sure if from this site, but 3 months sticks out in my mind as an average for stabilizing after a successful updose/reinstatement and.... for what it's worth, it's what my Dr. thought.   But who knows... maybe a mod could confirm if accurate.

[Tom37]

I do wonder what the plan is if you just cannot stabilise. Probably shouldn’t be thinking that way but does cross your mind. 

 

What time frame do you give it? A year? That’s along time to be in this state without improvement then you have to go through a few years of a slow taper to get to zero all while probably getting worse. 

 

The thought of the above terrifies me. It’s basically life over as you ever knew it.

 

i know I should be looking at the positives but when I’m sitting at my desk feeling rubbish it’s hard to remain positive.

 

 

[Gridley]

It does take a long time.  Yes, a year is a long time but that may be what it takes. Or maybe less.   This link is strong medicine but realistic.  We are all in the same boat.

 

How Long Is Withdrawal Going to Take?

[Tom37]

Thanks Gridley....did you notice your symptoms lessened as you approached stability? If I remember it took you around 4 months? I’m not comparing your situation to my own but you have been there.

[mdwstrx]

Brassmonkey says in the link Gridley gave, that updosing can drag out to several months to show significant progress and an additional two or three months is required for full stabilization before a dose reduction can be made. That sounds more positive especially given that you’re having some long windows. 

 

[nick1990]

Hi Tom , sorry to hear that the symptoms are back . I’ve been there before in 2015/2016 and it was definitely a challenging time but I’ve grown a lot from it. 

The thing is , you’ve tapered too fast for your brain and nervous system - hence the symptoms . It feels very scary yes , but I cannot hurt you . Mood is a hard one but over time you learn about mindfulness and start to figure it out - it’s a tough road but one that’s so worth doing !!

 

Everything and everyone is so unique in WD. 

The one consistently is stability. Give it some time and it will happen . It doesn’t feel like it will, but it does !

 

Once your stable, you can begin tapering slowly . A slow taper allows you to minimise WD symptoms. There will be some bumps along the way , but they’re temporary and nothing to be scared of. Slow tapering once stable is key. You’ll be fine . You just need to give it time . 

 

Cheers 

Nick. 

[Tom37]

Thanks guys....I understand about the to fast taper which is frustrating as it took me over a year to get down to 3mg and while I had physical symptoms along the way they were minor and resolved themselves, but then dropped to 3mg and then crashed hard. 

 

I know it took you a about a year Nick to stabilise I just hope that even if it takes me as long that improvement happens along the way.

 

Im sure I will start to feel better again soon.

 

Will never give up to the challenge.

 

 

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Tom37 said:

Thanks Gridley....did you notice your symptoms lessened as you approached stability? If I remember it took you around 4 months? I’m not comparing your situation to my own but you have been there.

 

This is just my personal experience but I can't say the symptoms lessened.  It was up and down during the four months and I had a lot of doubts if I was making progress.  Then things toward the end things settled down.  When I got "there" it wasn't perfect but it was better and tolerable.   

Edited January 17, 2019 by Gridley

[ChessieCat]

In case you haven't seen this topic:  Withdrawal Normal Description

[Tom37]

Thanks.....so before I crashed I knew my wd normal. Never felt 100 percent but was always around 80 to 90 percent for most of the time apart from occasions after a drop when symptoms would flare for a day or two. I was fine to live a normal life, I just stayed away from intense exercise and no alcohol and looked after myself. Didn’t push myself too hard with anything and everything was fine.

 

Now that I have crashed will my wd normal be like before once I do actually stabilise?  Or is it going to be less than 80/90 percent? Should I get ready to accept significantly less?

 

To me 80/90 percent means you don’t feel great but your not feeling bad. You feel good enough to lead a relatively normal life without it being a struggle. You can work etc.

 

i know everyone is different but a general idea of what to be looking for would be good.

 

Sorry for the questions today as well.

[DaveB]

Some really good stuff posted here that I needed to hear. Thanks everyone!

[ChessieCat]

From the Withdrawal Normal link:

 

On 8/24/2016 at 3:49 AM, brassmonkey said:

"You call it withdrawal normal, as said above when you have reached a base-line which is as good as it gets for you. Now I guess, I can start to think about that. "

 

 

5 minutes ago, Tom37 said:

Now that I have crashed will my wd normal be like before once I do actually stabilise?  Or is it going to be less than 80/90 percent? Should I get ready to accept significantly less?

 

I really don't know, and I don't think anybody can answer this question.  It will be up to you to monitor your symptoms and work out if it wil be "as good as it gets".  The effect of psychiatric drug use and going on and off, up and down, is cumulative.  Past experience is no guide to how things will be in the future.

 

So I assume your next question will be, how do I know if I can resume tapering?  If you think you are at withdrawal normal and want to start tapering again, it would be better to make a tiny reduction to test the waters.

 

Rhi's "Start Small, Listen to Your Body" Taper Plan  

[Tom37]

I know I’m not anywhere near tapering again as too up and down to be considered as stable. 

 

Thanks for the link though and your thoughts.

 

For anyone who has crashed and stabilised where would you say your wd normal was afterwards? 80 percent? Significantly less? I know everyone is different. 

 

Thanks 

[mdwstrx]

Thanks for asking this Tom. I’d like to hear thoughts on this too. In fact, regardless of plans to later taper after stabilizing, I think what we want to know is can we expect to return to a semblance of our pre crash state at or after stabilizing?  (Withdraw normal term seems to apply in the context of continued tapering). The fear is that we will be permanently disabled from crashing. Hoping someone weighs in that has stabilized from a crash and held for awhile. 

[ChessieCat]

Reinstatement

[nick1990]

I will chime in on this one . After crashing and stabilising I definitely, certainly returned to feeling my normal self pre crash , with a bunch of new skills and mindsets . And then as I tapered lower, slowly , my WD normal improved through the process- i.e I was feeling better as I got lower. Definitely had some WD symptoms tapering slowly but they were manageable and short lived. 

I know all we want when we feel bad is reassurance on every level . It’s the anxiety. But honestly Tom , give it time mate & I see no reason at all why you won’t get to that place of light .

 

I haven’t “crashed” as such now, but am just going over a speed bump, a bit of a rough one as well  - but I’ve had the same thoughts , i swear it’s a WD symptom. However I am trusting in the process and know I’ll be fine . Mindfulness and learning about anxious thinking can help a lot and is something you can apply to life after all this WD stuff is over and done with 😊

[mdwstrx]

Hi Nick. While trying not to hijack Tom's thread, I found your post encouraging. Thanks!  

[Tom37]

Another average night....three hours then wake...then an hour then wake....then half hour then wake....so annoying. Then starting feeling not well about 4.30 which is how it’s been going. Not ‘flu’ like just unwell.

 

Not a morning person but everything all doom and gloom this morning...never be better......I’m stuck where I am....find it so hard when you don’t see progress or go backwards.

 

Hopefully gets better throughout the day.

[RachelSusan]

Hi Tom,

So sorry to hear about your difficult night, but you are correct, it is sort of average for being in withdrawal. Let's call it average rotten. If you review your posts I think you will see that you have made progress, that today is just one day of a setback. And yes there might even be a few more days of setbacks in future.  But over all you are showing great improvement.You will stabilize. But I do know what it is like to feel stuck. I've been stuck a few times myself.  It does stink.  It's rotten, it's cruel and it's painful.  It's so unfair that this has been done to any of us, but we will overcome. Let's hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

Warm wishes.

[SkyStreamer]

5 hours ago, Tom37 said:

Another average night....three hours then wake...then an hour then wake....then half hour then wake....so annoying. Then starting feeling not well about 4.30 which is how it’s been going. Not ‘flu’ like just unwell.

 

Not a morning person but everything all doom and gloom this morning...never be better......I’m stuck where I am....find it so hard when you don’t see progress or go backwards.

 

Hopefully gets better throughout the day.

 

I know this sounds strange, but sometimes when I 'hope it gets better' throughout the day, I find I indirectly prevent my day from getting better. However, when I try and accept my situation and feelings as they are, and try not to 'hope that it improves later on,' things somehow get better (at least most of the time). The tricky part is to try not to hope for improvement in order that you might experience improvement. Your will should just be focused on accepting things on a moment to moment basis, letting 'later on' work itself out on its own. I guess another way of saying all this is:  'whatever you resist, persists. In this context,  'hoping for better' may be a subtle form of 'resistance.'

[Tom37]

Thanks guys for your comments.

 

Actually started feeling better mid morning....was out in my car driving and just out of no where the feeling ill feeling I have been having basically stopped and mentally was like a light was switched on. 

 

I just get frustrated so much by this constant wobbly/out of sync/shaky feeling  inside that I have had for the last 6 weeks. Every other symptom seems to come and go but this is constant. I guess because it’s been constant it scares me that I’m ‘stuck’ with it forever. All other symptoms  have come and gone and either never come back or if they have come back they have gone again.

 

Definitely praying to the wd gods to take it away!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom37]

So leaving work and talking on hands free while driving and out of no where feel like want to cry plus other horrible thoughts. Yet at the same time I’m talking about work like normal on the phone. Its crazy to have feelings like that as they are totally foreign to me.

 

One part is wd the other part is normal me....existing together.

 

Definitly must be in a wave for that too happen as it hasn’t in ages.

[Dejavu]

@Tom37, I'm with you on the weakness/shaky feeling. I have it almost constantly and it is harrowing, but its definitely not permanent. In my case, its a side effect rather than a withdrawal issue. It settles into about a consistent 2 out of 10 after I'm on zoloft for a few months, and then goes totally away only when I'm completely off this rat poison.  After my 4 week "taper," I kept commenting that all the weakness in my legs and tremble in my arms was gone. When I reinstated, it came back immediately. But whether a side effect or withdrawal symptom, it is 100% the drug and therefore not permanent. Know that and try to believe it. Hard sometimes, I know.

[mdwstrx]

Neuro emotions. I had it happen today too. At hairdressers, I couldn’t read phone or magazine as it was triggering symptoms.  Fearing any little thing that normally I wouldn’t think twice about. It’s disturbing until you realize they are only thoughts and we have the power not to react.  It’s where mindfulness come in handy. Train yourself to be the observer sitting on the side of the highway where thoughts come and go. Some are important, others are just w/d garbage. 

 

They’re not you.  😊

[Tom37]

Hopefully it’s not permanent and deep down I know it’s not but it’s just the time it’s taking.

 

Neuro emotions are definitely not fun and they always seem to be bad! Never good ones....in my case anyway. When things like that happen it’s so obvious it’s ‘not me’ but still unsettling. Actually took a depression self test the other day to see how this was affecting me and got a 2 out of ten so definitely not depressed. 

 

End of the day here in NZ so that’s me done....time to relax and do it all again tomorrow....but at least it’s the weekend.

 

 

[Tom37]

Better night last night in that got 4.5 hours without waking then back to sleep for another hour or so. 

 

Still feel like I have been this morning with the wobbly/out of sync/bit shaky feeling plus just feeling unwell and a weird head so that is frustrating. Throw in neuro emotions and my own frustration and doubt about getting better and I’m set for a great day! not. 

 

Mornings are always my worst I guess because I wake in hope that will be feeling better and then I’m not so another day dealing with this.

 

Saturday morning here and a lovely day so will force myself to do something...maybe the beach and bit of work but would be quite content with doing nothing much at home but that would just reinforce how I feel. 

 

 

[Dejavu]

I'm right there with you today. I did a dumb thing 2 days ago - even though not stable, I did a 2.5% test cut for 2 nights to see if my symptons were more side effects vs withdrawal. I was hoping that if they were side effects, then I would get some relief. Epic fail. Starting yesterday afternoon, chemical anxiety and weakness/tremor started creeping back up. I ended up having an anxiety attack last night. Immediately went back to regular dose, but I wonder how much this ill conceived stunt will set me back. Of course, my crazy monkey brain is telling me this means I will never be able to taper, and I'm feeling so very down and defeated today.

[Tom37]

Just to add...also dealing with the thought that I will never improve and will be like this for over a year or two  then will have to slowly slowly taper off (because what other option do I have) over a few years praying I don’t get worse then suffer another 4 or 5 years of actual wd before a recovery. So all in all losing about 8 or 9 years of my life and still no gaurantee of full recovery. 

 

Terrible thinking I know but it could happen and yes I need to stop thinking like that and I do challenge those thoughts. 

 

Not looking for reassurance just stating what I think and how I feel.

[Tom37]

Horrible night last night. Was 27 still at 11pm. Was either attemp to sleep in lounge with noisy air con (cant sleep with noise) or in bed in heat. Only got about an hour so long day a head. Summer is the worst time to be not well.

[mdwstrx]

Sorry it was so rough.  No good choice from what you said and I know how lack of sleep magnifies all.  Can you catch a nap today? Also, do you keep records? Since I graph my sleep and symptoms on a scale of 1-10, I am seeing patterns.  Not sure it means anything but than I can see the windows and waves; sleep is bad in a wave, good in a window...etc.  I am gathering some other insights too but won't go on other than to say it might help for you to see that you are slowly improving.  I believe we are. 🙏🏻  

 

It's supposed to be  -8 c tomorrow here.  ❄️ Thankful for a warm house and a great neighbor who drags his tractor out to plough the drives.

[Tom37]

Never been able to nap during the day for some reason. Never been the best sleeper unless in my own bed and then I’m fine as long as not to hot or noisy. Just need to watch my anxious thoughts about not sleeping such as if I don’t sleep tonight how will I cope at work tomorrow especially since it’s hard enough with wd as it is. 

 

I do keep a symptom guide and while there is improvement in symptoms from when this all started I think the longer it goes on the more draining and challenging mentally it becomes and i do struggle with that a lot. I also wonder what state I will be in when this is over.