Jakebob: paroxetine and mirtazapine withdrawal

[Jakebob]

On 12/14/2018 at 9:48 AM, Songbird said:

You're doing a really great job with the non-drug coping techniques.

Thank you. The weather is not really perfect for long walks and what's even worse here where I live we have very polluted air during winters. I probably should invest in a treadmill to walk without going outside.

 

Last Thursday I drank one can of cola and slept much worse. The next day I had a terrible migraine. I definitely, need to stay clear from caffeine. 

 

I wanted to ask a question about my vision problems. So I have floaters, snow (especially when it is dark and when I close my eyes), sometimes eyelid twitching. The worst problem, however, is that my vision seems to be shaky like my eyes cannot focus on one point. When I'm reading and I try to focus on one letter for a fraction of a second my eyes start to lose focus and I feel that my entire eyesight is shaking. It makes reading more hard and tiring.  

This problem first appeared more than 4 years ago, in 2014. I was taking mirtazapine for 2 weeks and practically every day Xanax. On one Sunday I started to feel extremely bad. From very early morning to late night I had many unpleasant symptoms like: extreme sweating (all the time I looked like I've just had a shower), muscle pain, muscle stiffness, tachycardia, extremely dry mouth and problems with my eyesight. I completely stopped taking Xanax at that moment. I was in this terrible state for the next five days. After that, I was feeling better but the problem with my eyesight persisted. And it was very similar to what I'm experiencing right now although I feel it's worse now. After I think 2-3 months my eyesight started to stabilize. During the last 4 years, this problem never fully went away but it also wasn't very severe and didn't bother me that much. I didn't have bigger problems with reading for example. It all got worse almost 2 months ago. I remember that on the day when it happened, I was sleepy and had a cold. I drank some coffee in the morning and later that day I took some pills with paracetamol and pseudoephedrine for my cold. In the evening my eyesight got worse. Did I somehow destabilize my nervous system using caffeine and these pills? Should I absolutely avoid paracetamol and other meds for colds at this point?

Also, does anybody who was taking mirtazapine suffers from similar eyesight problems?  Shaky vision, problems with focusing your eyes.

 

As always thank you, Everyone, for help. I wish you All happy and calm Christmas, and fast healing.

 

 

[Gridley]

Any destabilization of your system from the caffeine and Paracetamol should be temporary and should resolve in a few days.  Caffeine is definitely best avoided in the future.  If you take Paracetamol, take a lower dose than recommended.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Gridley

[Songbird]

14 hours ago, Jakebob said:

I drank some coffee in the morning and later that day I took some pills with paracetamol and pseudoephedrine for my cold. In the evening my eyesight got worse. Did I somehow destabilize my nervous system using caffeine and these pills? Should I absolutely avoid paracetamol and other meds for colds at this point?

 

I think it was more likely the pseudoephedrine that caused problems.  It is a stimulant and is probably best avoided, or at least taken at a much lower dose when your system is sensitive.  I haven't heard of problems occurring with paracetamol. 

 

It's a good idea to avoid caffeine when your system is sensitive.  I switched to decaf coffee.

[Jakebob]

5 hours ago, Songbird said:

I think it was more likely the pseudoephedrine that caused problems.  It is a stimulant and is probably best avoided, or at least taken at a much lower dose when your system is sensitive.

Thanks. Yeah, I'm putting it on my blacklist and will be trying to avoid any medications with it. I'm just scared it caused some damage to my nervous system because my first sleepless night happened 3 days after that, and my eyes got worse during that day.

 

19 hours ago, Gridley said:

Caffeine is definitely best avoided in the future.

6 hours ago, Songbird said:

It's a good idea to avoid caffeine when your system is sensitive.  I switched to decaf coffee.

Thank you. Yes, I'm definitely trying to avoid caffeine. At this point, the only thing I drink more regularly is green tea during some mornings. And I feel that even that may be too much.

 

I had some panic attack last evening. Generally, the last two days felt worse. I don't know if this is because I'm worried about my eyesight and I'm scared it is getting worse. Or all this is happening simultaneously, my WD kicks in, I'm feeling mentally worse and at the same time, my eyesight seems to be in a worse state. 

 

[Jakebob]

The closer we are to Christmas, the worse I feel. My appetite is much worse for a few days. Me eyes drive me crazy. I began to take supplements specifically for my eyesight two days ago. The problem is that they contain many different things like lutein omega-3, vitamins b6, b12 etc. At the beginning of next year, I am going to an ophthalmic clinic to check my eyes accurately. These problems with my eyesight make me so scared. Also more suicidal thoughts in recent days. 

 

On the other hand every day I'm trying new things to calm me down and relax. Today I drove the car behind the city to take a walk in a new place. Tried some new yoga exercises. 

 

 

[Gridley]

It's not a good idea to take a vitamin with lots of ingredients.  If there's a problem, there's no was to know which ingredient is causing the problem.  Also B vitamins can be very activating to someone in WD.

 

Hypersensitive to B Vitamin or B-Complex  

[Jakebob]

Thank you Gridley.

 

This is quite interesting. For example, when I had these panic attacks during nights a few weeks ago I was also taking a supplement which consisted of magnesium and B6 5mg. I wonder if that made me more agitated during nights. Anyway, I've found a supplement with lutein and DHA, without any B vitamins. This one should be safer I think.

[Jakebob]

Hello Everyone! So after almost a month without more severe sleeping problems, they seem to appear again. Also this last week I am feeling more depressed and having lots of intrusive thoughts, especially in the evening when I'm lying in my bed after I took mirtazapine. Two weeks before that I actually felt quite good, there were moments that I almost forgot that I was in withdrawal. I'm still on 15mg mirtazapine without any changes, not adding anything also. The only difference is that for the last 3 weeks I've been taking supplement that contains 22mg lutein and 250mg DHA but I don't think it has caused any problems during that time. Some other symptoms that are more intense this last week: teeth clenching, dizziness, nausea, Irritability, tachycardia. It's worth noting that I haven't been doing my relaxing exercises as often as before. I've also been drinking a lot of soda drinks (without caffeine but still with sugar). So I definitely need to correct these things.

[Jakebob]

Hi Everyone! I thought I would write some update about my current state. So half a year has passed since I stopped taking paroxetine. I'm in the seventh month without this medication. My mental state varies. For example, two previous weeks were really good but this week I am much more depressed, anxious and I feel my social phobia is even worse. This may be because I again couldn't control myself and drank some drinks with caffeine. My system seems to be really sensitive to what I eat and drink. For at least one month I managed to avoid anything with caffeine and was feeling much better. I'm still having problems with my eyesight (blurred vision, focusing problems, photophobia) and sensitivity to noise. When it comes to the quality of my sleep, the good thing is that I don't have panic attacks during the night. Unfortunately, I have sometimes problem with falling asleep. I'm trying melatonin but don't want to take too often. 

 

The interesting thing here is that mirtazapine doesn't work on me as it did in the past. What I mean by that is that in the past when I took it I always had this hunger attack, like I had to eat something (usually a lot)before going to bed. In addition, I was so sleepy that I had to lie down. Now there is nothing of that.

Slowly, I am planning to start reducing mirtazapine but I'm not yet sure when to start doing it. I was thinking maybe May this year would be a good month to start. On the 11th of May, it will be 9 months since I stopped paroxetine and half a year since my last attempt at reducing mirtazapine.

[Altostrata]

Hi, Jakebob.

 

Don't worry about taking melatonin every night if it helps. Sometimes a lower dose of melatonin, as low as 0.25mg, is more effective.

 

Did you gain weight on mirtazapine? What is your current sleep pattern?

[Jakebob]

Hello Altostrata. 

Thank you for the message.

 

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Don't worry about taking melatonin every night if it helps. Sometimes a lower dose of melatonin, as low as 0.25mg, is more effective.

I feel that when I'm taking melatonin I'm feeling a little nauseous during the night and early in the morning. It's nothing serious though. I usually take 1mg, so next time I'll try a smaller dose, like 0.25

 

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Did you gain weight on mirtazapine?

Yes. I gained 20 kilograms.

I've always been very slim, so gaining weight didn't bother me that much.  When I stopped taking paroxetine I lost 5 kilograms. Two months ago when I started walking a lot every day I lost another 5 kilos. I suppose that when I completely stop taking mirtazapine I will lose my appetite and lose weight even more, which actually makes me a little worried.

 

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What is your current sleep pattern?

I go to bed usually at 11 pm. 

If I'm lucky, I fall asleep within an hour, but often it takes 2-3 hours. Then there are cases like one night in two weeks when I cannot fall asleep at all. This is when I'm taking melatonin usually at 2 am. I also turn on some white noise from YouTube and leave it for the night.

I'm getting up at 7 am or later depending on the day. I'm always waking up by the clock alarm, never by myself. It's also very hard for me to get up, I really need to force myself to do this. 

If I manage to fall asleep relatively fast then I'm not waking up during the night. I have quite vivid dreams but not nightmares.

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd get off the computer in early evening, take 0.25mg melatonin at 10 p.m. and turn off all the lights. Your own melatonin production is triggered by darkness. This should help you get to sleep. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

After your sleep improves, you might consider a very gradual taper off mirtazapine. While you don't feel it anymore, your system has adapted to it, you'll want to slowly withdraw.

 

See Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

[CGHolding]

Hi Jakebob, I also am taking Mirtazapine and lack of sleep is something I fear. The actions that you mention in your post are very good for dealing with anxiety and stress. I think Yoga in particular is useful as it helps people connect with their body. In some ways anti-depressants and benzodiazepines (I was on valium for a number of years) take us away from our bodies and exercises like Yoga help us re-connect. 


Looking through your history, you have already completed a significant taper. I think with tapers patience is key. I took about 3 years to taper off valium. (30 mgs per day)
It is a long time but I was able to do so safely. 


I hope you are doing ok,
All the best,
CG

[Jakebob]

Altostrada thank you for all the help. Really appreciate it.

I'm slowly going through the "Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)" topic. Lots of things to consider. Especially if I should try to cut pills or use liquid. I weigh my options.

 

One thing I haven't mentioned yet is that I have cognitive and memory problems.  It's harder to focus for me when I'm reading a book, definitely more difficult to remember names and just, in general, my memory seems to be very foggy. 
I think it may be now slightly better than it was two months ago, but well  I'm not that sure actually.

 

 

On 2/18/2019 at 2:35 PM, CGHolding said:

Hi Jakebob, I also am taking Mirtazapine and lack of sleep is something I fear.

 

Hello CGHolding. Thank you for your kind words. It's good to meet you.
Congratulations on your tapering off valium. I'm glad you managed to do it safely and you're free of it.

 

I was on Xanax for something like two years and for half a year I was taking it regularly every day. 
Then probably due to polypharmacy, I had a very unpleasant episode and practically quit Xanax cold turkey.  For the next 6 months, I was experiencing anxiety like never before. 

 

I know that right now with mirtazapine I need to be extra careful.  My CNS isn't in good shape after tapering paroxetine and benzos in the past. 
So many things I fear may happen during my tapering, lack of sleep is one of them. But I don't want to be any longer on this medication.

 

I hope your tapering is going well.
Wishing you all the best.
Take care.

[Jakebob]

I was at the ophthalmic clinic today to get my eyes checked thoroughly. Besides small nearsightedness (for which I have glasses) they didn't find anything particularly wrong with my eyes. I'm not surprised, but I'm also very depressed because from what the doctor said it seems that my problem cannot be easily fixed. He wasn't really sure what is the cause of all this. I'm so scared that those meds made some permanent damages in my brain.

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Jakebob said:

I was at the ophthalmic clinic today to get my eyes checked thoroughly. Besides small nearsightedness (for which I have glasses) they didn't find anything particularly wrong with my eyes. I'm not surprised, but I'm also very depressed because from what the doctor said it seems that my problem cannot be easily fixed. He wasn't really sure what is the cause of all this. I'm so scared that those meds made some permanent damages in my brain.

 

Vision problems are a common withdrawal symptom and will resolve in time.  You have not made permanent damage permanent damage to your brain, which has remarkable abilities to heal itself.

Vision symptoms - Surviving Antidepressants

KayBee01: Vision problems with withdrawal - Surviving Antidepressants

"Abnormal visual sensations" is on the list in the following link:

PDF Monthly List of Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms to Print 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Gridley

[Jakebob]

Hello Everyone! I wanted to write some update about my current condition. Nothing changed when it comes to medication. I'm still on 15mg mirtazapine and haven't started tapering. The last months haven't been super easy mostly thanks to depression. There were so many days when I was contemplating suicide. There were moments when I was thinking about going to the hospital, but I know this is pointless because they would basically put me on some strong medications which could actually make my situation worse. At the beginning of last June, I managed to go on some vacation. This was the first time in 8-9 months when I was feeling happy, although for a very short time. The most difficult were (and still are) mornings when I wish I wouldn't wake up because it's sometimes so difficult mentally to start a new day. This is one symptom that is there since day one when I stopped paroxetine. I don't remember having a single normal morning in withdrawal.

 

Somewhere in May, I started taking omega fish oil. Maybe it helped a little with my brain fog. Also recently my eyes become more stable. The problem is, however, I wasn't sure if it was doing anything good for me so 5 days ago I stopped taking it completely. And now I feel worse. On Friday I was nauseous, almost felt brain zaps and my vision once again become less stable. My question would be what is safer to do now? Return to a small dose of omega fish oil? Or wait to stabilize?

[Jakebob]

Hi. So I didn't reinstate omega fish oil. I had two days when I had this shivering sensation in my body that comes from my head. So, for now, I won't be taking fish oil for a few weeks. I don't want to risk destabilizing my CNS even more.

 

There is one symptom that appeared in the middle of May this year, which does not give me peace. My senses of taste and smell are weakened. During spring and early summer, I have an allergy. Qatar, sneezing, scratching in the throat, etc. It's the same this year. However, I never had problems with taste or smell during that time. I was given some medications for my allergy. I only took Pronasal which contains mometasone furoate. I think my sense of taste and smell could have worsened after taking this medication.  Because of that, I stopped taking it immediately and refuse to take any other medications for this allergy. Especially antihistamine drugs that can interfere with mirtazapine. But I don't know if those problems with smell and taste are because of withdrawal, allergy or this medication.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

taste-changes-tasteless-food

 

[Jakebob]

Hello Everyone! I wanted to ask a question. Can it be dangerous to take corticosteroids while still in withdrawal? I have been suffering some sinus problems for a few months, plus recently I also have some breathing problems.

I was prescribed a few medications. The problem is some of them are corticosteroids. Would it be safe to take them? Or should I ask my doctor for other meds that are not corticosteroids?

 

I'm also still on mirtazapine 15mg.

[Gridley]

5 hours ago, Jakebob said:

Can it be dangerous to take corticosteroids while still in withdrawal?

Yes, corticosteroids can definitely ramp up withdrawal symptoms.

[Jakebob]

Thank you Gridley  That's what I was afraid of. 

 

I suppose antihistamine drugs are also not really save, especially that I'm already on mirtazapine. That will make treating some infections and sinus problems more difficult.

 

[Gridley]

This link has some suggestions.

Allergies, sneezing, stuffed up, nose, sinus - antihistamines ...

 

7 minutes ago, Jakebob said:

That will make treating some infections and sinus problems more difficult.

 

And this link about the dangers of antihistamines.

Allergies, sneezing, stuffed up, nose, sinus - antihistamines ...

[Jakebob]

Thank you. I will look into it.

[Jakebob]

Hello Everyone. It's been almost year and a half since I stopped taking paroxetine, so I wanted to make a summary of my symptoms and how I feel right now.

 

Here are symptoms that I still have or they've appeared during withdrawal:

• Vision problems: blurred vision (this got even worse during the last year, not a super huge difference, but it doesn't improve right now. I'm scared, will it be like this forever?), wobbly vision (things kind of shakes a little, it's hard to describe, it stopped during the summer for about 2 months, but then appeared again), problem with focusing my eyes on very small objects or moving objects, photophobia,  optical snow. The problem with blurred vision does not appear in ophthalmic tests, and glasses don't help with it. I also did the VEP test (Visual Evoked Potential) and surprisingly it didn't show any problems. 
• Hearing problems: I have some hearing problems that started appearing during the last year. For example when I move, especially when I run I hear cracking noises in my right ear. Also, my hearing in my right ear is slightly worse. Now I did CT and doctors said that there is nothing wrong with my ear but there is inflammation in my sinus which my cause those symptoms. Another problem is tinnitus. It's like a sound in my head, especially when it's quiet or when I'm eating. It got more noticeable recently.
• Brain fog, memory problems are still there. It's like my brain feels really slow, hard to concentrate sometimes. That said it's usually not super bad.
• Depression, intrusive thoughts, sometimes anxiety
• Fatigue, flu-like symptoms. They appear from time to time. Thankfully not super often. Sometimes I have like 1-2 weeks when I don't feel them. They usually happen for a few hours.
• Sensitivity to some substances. I have to be very careful with caffeine, I don't even try alcohol. I'm sensitive to B12 vitamin. I took one tablet a few weeks ago and felt really bad for over 24 hours.
• Sinus problems. I constantly have a runny nose, hearing problems that I mentioned earlier, my senses of smell and taste are weakened.
• Breathing problems. Sometimes quite often I have these problems with breathing when I can't take a full breath. I did FeNo tests. My doctor said that I have mild asthma and prescribed corticosteroids. I haven't taken them yet, because I'm afraid they may increase my withdrawal symptoms.

 

Here are some symptoms that haven't appeared for a few months now. Not many though.

• Panic attacks and adrenaline surges when falling asleep. Thankfully I haven't experienced them for a few months now. I have trouble falling asleep from time to time but it's nothing compared to those problems.
• Brain zaps. I don't have full brain zaps right now, even though sometimes I have this strange tingling sensation in my brain it's not as bad as brain zaps that I was experiencing during tapering and for a few months after.
• Eyelid twitching. This was the symptom that started day one, but I haven't experienced it for quite some time now.

So overall there is perhaps some small improvement on one side, but on the other some symptoms got worse during that time. I walk a lot every day (about 10km, 6.2 miles), try to eat healthy but still having too much sugar. It's really hard to avoid any stress, especially that I'm very sensitive to anything. I don't know what else I can do to improve my state. I'm so worried about those eye problems, and now tinnitus.

 

I also tested my B6, B12, and folic acid levels, because I heard that SSRI and mirtazapine can reduce those.

Here are results:

B6  -  27,9 µg/L

B12  -  312 pg/mL

folic acid - 9,46 ng/mL

 

[Jakebob]

Is it possible that after 17 months some of my symptoms may be still getting worse? Is it still withdrawal? For example, I feel that my blurred vision is still getting worse. And this tinnitus problem. I don't even remember having it 6-8 months ago, or at least it wasn't very noticeable. Now it's definitely worse. There are also sinus problems and breathing problems.

 

I'm still taking Mirtor. Is it possible that it's actually mirtazapine causing these problems? I really want to start tapering it. I feel that this medication is destroying me every day. But I don't know if this is the right moment to do this. I haven't had any changes with medications for over 13 months now. 

[pinciukas]

On 1/21/2020 at 12:39 PM, Jakebob said:

• Sinus problems. I constantly have a runny nose, hearing problems that I mentioned earlier, my senses of smell and taste are weakened.
• Breathing problems. Sometimes quite often I have these problems with breathing when I can't take a full breath. I did FeNo tests. My doctor said that I have mild asthma and prescribed corticosteroids. I haven't taken them yet, because I'm afraid they may increase my withdrawal symptoms.

 

Here are some symptoms that haven't appeared for a few months now. Not many though.

• Panic attacks and adrenaline surges when falling asleep. Thankfully I haven't experienced them for a few months now. I have trouble falling asleep from time to time but it's nothing compared to those problems.

I have those all my life. Before i was on Paroxetine and on it and during my tapering. Sinus problems is because i have not straight nose wall I don’t know how to describe this in English.

Breathing problems is my anxiety disorder related i am often feel that i can’t take a proper breath but when I stopped to track that it disappeared so I don’t experience this thing often now. Once per few days.

Panic attack and adrenaline surges when falling asleep i have for 20 years. But not constantly i have already learned to live with them and now they are not so strong. After event in 1 minute i can just go back fall a sleep.

Depression and anxiety can be related to your original condition. If you had depression before it can come back any time.

I see on myself that often i just push everything what is happening in my life just to be WD symptoms but this is not true. 

Good luck!

[Jakebob]

Hi pinciukas. Thank you for stopping by. I similarly had sinus problems in the past. I have nasal septum deviation, so it may be the same condition you have. One of my doctors said that it should be surgically corrected, another said that it isn't a big problem. 

I'm mostly worried about my vision problems, tinnitus and cognitive and memory problems. Those problems appeared with medications and during withdrawal. 

I see you're tapering Seroxat. I hope it goes well. 

[pinciukas]

6 minutes ago, Jakebob said:

Hi pinciukas. Thank you for stopping by. I similarly had sinus problems in the past. I have nasal septum deviation, so it may be the same condition you have. One of my doctors said that it should be surgically corrected, another said that it isn't a big problem. 

I'm mostly worried about my vision problems, tinnitus and cognitive and memory problems. Those problems appeared with medications and during withdrawal. 

I see you're tapering Seroxat. I hope it goes well. 

No my tappering just failed at 5.5 so I reinstate to 9mg feeling almost good some days I feel anxiety in the middle of the day. I am thinking to reinstate more to 10mg and stay for long. I don't know or I can tapper in the near future. For now I just want to stabilise

[Jakebob]

1 hour ago, pinciukas said:

No my tappering just failed at 5.5 so I reinstate to 9mg feeling almost good some days I feel anxiety in the middle of the day. I am thinking to reinstate more to 10mg and stay for long. I don't know or I can tapper in the near future. For now I just want to stabilise

Ohh I see. I hope that you stabilize nicely on this dose. For me going below 10mg was definitely the hardest, not to mention I did it way too fast. Sometimes I wish I actually stopped on 10mg and gave myself more time.

[Jakebob]

So yesterday I made my first drop in dose. Went from 15mg to 13.7mg of mirtazapine. I'm taking my doses in a powder made by my pharmacy from my original orodispersible tablets, so I'm not sure if this method will work for me. Yesterday shortly after taking this dose I was plagued by anxiety and my sleep was slightly less calm than usual, but I think this anxiety was caused more by my fear of this tapering and potential consequences.

[Jakebob]

I'm constantly asking myself if this is the right thing to do. 
It's been 20 months since I stopped paroxetine, but I have still a lot of problems. Tinnitus, a multitude of vision problems, brain fog, and many others. Is this really the right time to start another tapering?
Should I wait a bit longer?  I really don't know what to do.

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, Jakebob said:

So yesterday I made my first drop in dose. Went from 15mg to 13.7mg of mirtazapine. I'm taking my doses in a powder made by my pharmacy from my original orodispersible tablets, so I'm not sure if this method will work for me. Yesterday shortly after taking this dose I was plagued by anxiety and my sleep was slightly less calm than usual, but I think this anxiety was caused more by my fear of this tapering and potential consequences.

 

3 hours ago, Jakebob said:

I'm constantly asking myself if this is the right thing to do. 
It's been 20 months since I stopped paroxetine, but I have still a lot of problems. Tinnitus, a multitude of vision problems, brain fog, and many others. Is this really the right time to start another tapering?
Should I wait a bit longer?  I really don't know what to do.

 

Hello, Jakebob. Why did you decide to taper mirtazapine? What made you think mirtazipine was causing your symptoms? Please look up adverse effects of mirtazapine (and any other drugs you might take) at drugs.com

 

Going off paroxetine can be very difficult. Recovery from post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) usually is very gradual and can take years. Your collection of symptoms would not be unusual for PAWS.

 

You have seen these small improvements:

On 1/21/2020 at 3:39 AM, Jakebob said:

Here are some symptoms that haven't appeared for a few months now. Not many though.

• Panic attacks and adrenaline surges when falling asleep. Thankfully I haven't experienced them for a few months now. I have trouble falling asleep from time to time but it's nothing compared to those problems.
• Brain zaps. I don't have full brain zaps right now, even though sometimes I have this strange tingling sensation in my brain it's not as bad as brain zaps that I was experiencing during tapering and for a few months after.
• Eyelid twitching. This was the symptom that started day one, but I haven't experienced it for quite some time now.

 

How long did you have brain zaps?

 

Are your current symptoms worse at any particular time of day? How has your sleep pattern changed in the last 6 months?

 

Unfortunately, there are few maps to psychiatric drug withdrawal. Questioning your decisions will only increase your anxiety. All you can do is make changes gradually and see what happens.

 

[Jakebob]

22 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, Jakebob. Why did you decide to taper mirtazapine?

Hello Altostrata. Thank you for your reply. I want to get off mirtazapine because it seems to be a very toxic drug. Going through FB group about this med and some posts on this forum and it gives me shivers about how dangerous this medication is. Also, I feel that mirtazapine never really helped me with depression or anxiety. It was prescribed to me in 2014 after an accident because I didn't have a good appetite. I was also already on Anafranil back then, so it seemed so pointless. 

 

29 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How long did you have brain zaps?

I think they were appearing from time to time for a few months after stopping paro. Right now I sometimes have these shivering sensations in my head and body, especially after straining my eyes for a longer period. But they don't feel like full brain zaps that I had before.

 

33 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Are your current symptoms worse at any particular time of day? How has your sleep pattern changed in the last 6 months?

Some symptoms may be worse in the morning like anhedonia or some vision problems. Sometimes worse anxiety or anger in the evening. Sometimes strong fatigue flu-like symptoms from noon to late afternoon.

My sleep pattern hasn't changed that much during the last six months. I go to bed around 11 pm. Usually after 1 hour in bed I fall asleep. Then after 8-9 hours, I have really hard time getting up in the morning. I feel kind of unconscious and depressed in the morning . Sometimes like once in 1-2 weeks I have trouble falling asleep. I lie in bed for about 4 hours then at about 3 am I take melatonin and after an hour I finally manage to fall asleep. So overall it's not so bad, so far.

 

Once again thank you for your message and all the help. It really helps and makes a difference.

[Altostrata]

I would not worry about mirtazapine toxicity. It sounds like you have underlying paroxetine post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS).

 

If mirtazapine is helping you sleep, that's a good thing. You may feel less groggy with less of it, but if you get rebound insomnia, you might want to wait to taper it.

 

8 hours ago, Jakebob said:

So yesterday I made my first drop in dose. Went from 15mg to 13.7mg of mirtazapine. I'm taking my doses in a powder made by my pharmacy from my original orodispersible tablets, so I'm not sure if this method will work for me. Yesterday shortly after taking this dose I was plagued by anxiety and my sleep was slightly less calm than usual, but I think this anxiety was caused more by my fear of this tapering and potential consequences.

 

^This sounds like you're making yourself anxious, not rebound insomnia from mirtazapine decrease.

[Jakebob]

4 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I would not worry about mirtazapine toxicity. It sounds like you have underlying paroxetine post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS).

 

Some of my problems started back in 2014 shortly after starting mirtazapine. For example, some eye problems appeared 2 weeks after the first dose of mirt so I blamed this medication. On the other hand, I was in withdrawal from benzo back then so who knows what was the cause. For the most part, it stabilized to a certain degree after a few months. All in all, everything got much worse during withdrawal from paroxetine.

 

I have a question. If I stay on this dose 13.7mg for let's say 2 weeks to test how I feel, can I safely return then to my original dose of 15mg?