Kernol: was doing well on my sertraline taper but now in hell and doc reinstated

[Kernol]

1am woke in panic

3 woke in panic (no nightmares though)

3am 1mg loraZepam

4am couldn’t really get to sleep panicky

8am got up showered

9am anxious pacing 

11am 1m lorazepam - calmer

12.30 ate lunch 

1pm read a book

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

How long have you been taking lorazepam more than once a day?

 

Since you decreased to 100mg the night of December 30, have your symptoms been better, worse, or the same? It will take about 4 days for that dosage change to fully register in your bloodstream.

[Kernol]

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

How long have you been taking lorazepam more than once a day?

 

Since you decreased to 100mg the night of December 30, have your symptoms been better, worse, or the same? It will take about 4 days for that dosage change to fully register in your bloodstream.

Worse panic since the cut especially during the night I feel like my body is on fire.

 

ive been taking lorazepam more than once a day for most of this 7 week period back on sertraline 

 

i am scared the drop would have caused an anxiety spike - when should that level out?

[Kernol]

I am the same since dosage change - should I go down further or wait longer? I still have the burning skin sensation on stomach I am still having nightmares and it doesn’t seem to be helping my anxiety at all? 

[Altostrata]

I really need those daily notes to see what times of day you have particular symptoms, along with your drug dosing.

 

On 1/1/2019 at 11:58 PM, Kernol said:

I take it 4am 1mg 

i thrn take another 1mg usually at midday and then usually 0.5mg about 5pm

 

i don’t feel like it’s the lorazepam causing it 

 

I believe most of your symptoms are interdose withdrawal from lorazepam. You will need to take it on a more regular schedule. Please start a topic here and discuss with @Shep

 

My guess is you are also taking too much sertraline and experiencing adverse effects from that. Once you get your benzo dosing evened out, I would reduce the sertraline by 10mg (10%).

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Kernol]

Thanks I have started the topic on lorazepam

 

dosing last 2 days 

 

0.5mg at 1030am

1mg 3pm

felt calm read book 5pm

took 100mg sertraline at 10pm

nightnares and disgusting dreams and cold sweats (waking every hour) I know this is sertraline as I’ve had those dreams and sweats before 

 

0.5mf lorazepam at 1030am 

did not feel calm v panicky 

0.5mg lorazepam at 1pm still not calm and feeling depressed and extremely tired as not much sleep previous night 

1mg lorazepam at 3.30pm so I could sleep abs block it out 

slept til 6pm

8pm took 100mg sertraline and 200mg magnesium to see if it would help sleep

Up at 1am 3am 5am with panic and despair at facing another day 

 

Burning skin sensation on stomach present most of the time and Ramps up when anxious about 

 

[Kernol]

@Altostrata can I just ask as I have only been back on for 7 weeks do I still need to do 10% reduction every 3 weeks it just seems like it would take forever. Is there any other way?? I cannot face taking months and months like this before I get down lower? 

 

I dont lnow whether it is at all relevant but I did not have many side effects from tapering down from 150mg to 25mg over the 2 year period I came off but I know this is different now. 

[Kernol]

Hi there

 

does anyone know anyone in UK who understands withdrawal from antidepressants - all the ones I have come into contact with do not seem to believe it exists. 

 

I just want to be able to see someone who knows what to do with me? 

 

If anyone has any suggestions please let me know

 

thanks 

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, Kernol said:

I just want to be able to see someone who knows what to do with me? 

 

Pharmaceutical companies are businesses (think $$$) who tout their drugs to the medical community.  Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years.  Pharmaceutical companies fund the clinical trials.  These are eye opening and give you an idea of where the prescribers get their information about the drugs from:

 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes)

 

Manipulating Doctors (10 minutes)

 

We are trained to misinform (6 minutes)

 

Q:  Are you seeking withdrawal advice?  Not many medical professionals understand tapering and withdrawal.  That is why this site exists.  We are aware of some medical professionals getting information from SA to assist their patients.
 

Q:  Are you seeking counselling?  Ditto.  Seeing a counseller can be a good idea.  If you are wanting help learning to cope it may be best telling them that you want to learn life coping skills.  You may have difficulty finding someone who understands withdrawal.  I would urge caution about opening up about withdrawal.  They may end up labelling you and when you talk about your issues they will be relating it (probably unconsciously) to you reducing your drug and blame any issues on you having  a mental illness or relapse and not taking the "therapeutic dose", which by the way is an arbitrary term that the pharmaceutical companies use and the term they teach the doctors etc.  SA prefers to use "lowest effective dose".

 

Q:  Are you wanting support?  SA is a peer support site and encourages members to visit and post in each others topics and support and encourage each other.  Many members have found that the best support they get is from other members here on SA especially since they can truly understand because they are going through similar things themselves.

 

Q:  Are you looking for a prescriber?  Any doctor can prescribe.  If you have specific needs regarding the form or dose of your drug you might find it helpful to write a script and rehearse what you are going to say.  Be calm, gentle but assertive.  You are the customer, it is your body.  Use words like I'd like to try this.  If a suggestion is made that you don't want to follow, say I'd like to think about it before making a decision.   If you don't have specific needs you can just let the prescriber assume that you are doing all right and need the same script they previously provided.  These topics may be helpful:

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

4 hours ago, Kernol said:

withdrawal from antidepressants - all the ones I have come into contact with do not seem to believe it exists.  

 

Antidepressant withdrawal is in the DSM-5:  antidepressant-discontinuation-syndrome

 

4 hours ago, Kernol said:

does anyone know anyone in UK who understands withdrawal from antidepressants

 

I suggest you check these topics and also post in them.  If you do find someone good who is not mentioned please add their information to the Recommended topic.  If you see someone who you found in the Recommended topic please post your experience with them, good or bad.  Thank you.

 

recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics

 

great-britain-members-please-check-in-here

[Altostrata]

I wish I could send you to a doctor, Kernol. Very few have any kind of understanding about any kind of adverse drug effects.

 

Once you get lorazepam balanced out, if I were you, I'd try a 10% reduction of sertraline as an initial test. Even though it's been only 7 weeks, your system can be sensitive to dosage reductions.

[RusTW]

6 hours ago, Kernol said:

Hi there

 

does anyone know anyone in UK who understands withdrawal from antidepressants - all the ones I have come into contact with do not seem to believe it exists. 

 

I just want to be able to see someone who knows what to do with me? 

 

If anyone has any suggestions please let me know

 

thanks 

From my experience Doctors are clueless about wd.This site and  its members are the best resource.Its your journey.Take control friend. 

 

Russ

[Kernol]

@Altostrata the problem is the lorazepam is literally the only thing from keeping me from ending it all right now so I cannot reduce that first.

 

i feel like the sertraline is amplifying my anxiety to levels I have never known and I just can’t stay on it like this - I just wondered whether getting at least down to a lower dose might ease some of it - if I only do 10% it’s too long I just can’t go on in this state 

[ChessieCat]

Do you have access to a blood pressure machine?

 

Have you noticed increased sweating since the beginning of December?

[eymen23]

Kernol,

 

I’m so sorry you have found yourself in this situation. I can completely understand your desire to get off the medication ASAP, as you are experiencing awful and increased anxiety since reinstating.  

 

Of course each situation is different and I’m sure the mods can offer more specific advice, but from reading a lot of the intro topics here and advice from mods and/or experienced members, I have noticed that in most cases, it’s not the drug or lack of drug that is the problem, it is the changes. Especially if they are frequent and/or large changes. 

 

The way you are feeling now is more likely a result of all the changes you’ve made recently, than the drug per se. I’m confident that’s why the mods have not advised you to drastically reduce your dose of sertraline (happy to be corrected). 

 

Please, try not to add further stress due to the fact you have a lengthy taper of Sertraline ahead. Please also try not to take any drastic action to fix this, unless it is advised by the mods. Reading your journey thus far, the desire to improve how you have felt has resulted in the worsening of symptoms. Your body can adapt and it can stabilise, so please try not to see your current dosage of drugs as the problem, but rather a combination of changes in recent times that your body has yet to adapt to and stabilise from. 

 

Things can and will get better, so long as you keep things consistent and follow the steps provided by those on here that know their stuff. 

[Kernol]

Hi @ChessieCat I have not noticed increased sweating. The doctors took my blood pressure about 3 weeks ago it was ok

[Aquarius]

I agree with eymen23 please try not to look for a quick fix there isnt one i know all your symptons are distressing i have been there and still am some days the last few weeks have been hard for me but i think ive added stress as in Christmas and other stuff i cant empathise enough to you to not add that second fear these last few days i have my usual symptons only yesterday was a rough day im trying not to fight it and wish it away i try and get through the day im noticing now the symptons are letting up i had a good cry this morning and felt at a loss i would normally ring everyone i know and keep it going but instead i just sat with it and let it play itself out i felt awful but because i kindof ignored it it disappeared and now i feel great and in control whereas if i had rung someone we would have chatted about it they would have come over and it would have carried on as i would have been giving it the attention it doesnt deserve ! If you can see it as a journey and take it one day at a time do not look any further than that and try to stop looking for answers it doesnt work you are just feeding the monster all the time ..distract yourself try and get a routine back and try to regain some control ..i know you can do this we are all stronger than we think the monster inside is messing with your head do not let it win take back your mind 😊

[Kernol]

I know you are right about adding second fear it’s just so hard when I feel like the drug at this dose is causing a lot of this as it doesn’t even feel the same as my normal anxiety it feels like electricity running through me and it’s so intense I just want to get down to see if this eases and the skin burning sensations on my stomach which have now been with me for 3 weeks. 

[Aquarius]

I really do feel for you i wish i could take it all away i know you probably dont want ti hear this but i think you would be having these symptons now regardless of what dose you are on unfortunately the grass isnt always greener ...forget about your dosage for now your system is still tryimg to stabilise all those symptons you mentioned ive had those recently and im not on any drug stop beating yourself up i was like you which ever direction i went in i regretted it as it didnt help either way ...your body will go through a process regardless let it find its level please accept it for now and do your best to relax and find ways to lower stress you are making yourself worse by keep thinking and going over it .i have been there and got the t shirt beleive me its going to be tough but it wont last !! Please accept it 

[Kernol]

I have now changed the regimen for lorazepam to space it out  but it has not made a difference to the symptoms. I am now waking every night at 3am with a huge electrical rush of Adrenalin that goes all tingling burning over my head arms chest stomach and I then cannot return to sleep. I am now convinced it is the sertraline. 

 

What should I do? I still have parasthesia all across my stomach continually and that is not easing. I have been on 100mg now for 10 days and things are worse?

[Shep]

Please update your signature to reflect your latest change in sertraline and to also provide the dose and time you are taking lorazepam. Are you still taking 1 -2 mg of lorazepam or did you settle on one consistent dose? 

 

Account - Setting - Signature

 

I've asked the moderators most familiar with sertraline to stop by with a recommendation for the sertraline. In the meantime, please post when you are now taking your drugs. It will be helpful to continue posting a drug and symptoms journal as you did here in this post. This will help them make a recommendation. 

 

 

[Shep]

Kernol, this is from my post to you on your benzo thread. You never followed up, so I'm posting it again, here in your main intro thread.

 

Please answer these questions so we can better assist you. 

 

On 1/6/2019 at 4:56 PM, Shep said:

Some questions:

 

• Your signature states "Lorazepam 1-2ng a day since 17 November" is this date November 17 of this past year (2018) or is this November 2017? 
• Why are you taking the sertraline at night? Do you feel it's interfering with sleep or helping with sleep? 
• Do you usually take a nap during the day after your afternoon lorazepam or was this unusual for you? 

[Kernol]

Sorry @Shep I hadn’t seen them 

 

1. lorazepam from nov 2018

2. Sertraline - i always took it at night when I was on it for 10 years so just did it same again. I feel the night panics are coming from the sertraline 

3. I haven’t taken a nap in afternoon for a few days I do if I feel very bad but not regularly 

 

25 minutes ago, Shep said:

Kernol, this is from my post to you on your benzo thread. You never followed up, so I'm posting it again, here in your main intro thread.

 

Please answer these questions so we can better assist you. 

 

 

[Kernol]

I have answered those questions sorry I didn’t see them before and I am so grateful for your advice and for asking the mods to look at the sertraline. 

[Kernol]

Symptoms are: 

 

Electric feeling throughout my chest during day

Noctrunal Panic attacks every night with electricity feeling running down my arms chest back

Nightmares

Heightened anxiety 24/7

Burning skin paraesthesia across my stomach area (past 3-4weeks)

V depressed mood

 

i should add my sertraline I take at night and the late afternoon evenings are always best time for me mood wise - not sure if that is anything relevant 

 

@Altostrata I read in the reinstatement topic that if adverse reactions are bad you can do a faster taper 25% instead of 10% - does this apply to me still? 

 

[RusTW]

2 hours ago, Kernol said:

Symptoms are: 

 

Electric feeling throughout my chest during day

Noctrunal Panic attacks every night with electricity feeling running down my arms chest back

Nightmares

Heightened anxiety 24/7

Burning skin paraesthesia across my stomach area (past 3-4weeks)

V depressed mood

 

i should add my sertraline I take at night and the late afternoon evenings are always best time for me mood wise - not sure if that is anything relevant 

 

@Altostrata I read in the reinstatement topic that if adverse reactions are bad you can do a faster taper 25% instead of 10% - does this apply to me still? 

 

Even while taking ativan i had strange symptoms no doctor could explain.breathing problems-shocks-anxiety-hypochondria- interdose wd.

Ask a mod about maybe moving the zoloft to morning if its activating you at night.i did.it helped me.

[Altostrata]

On 1/7/2019 at 12:25 AM, Kernol said:

@Altostrata the problem is the lorazepam is literally the only thing from keeping me from ending it all right now so I cannot reduce that first.

 

i feel like the sertraline is amplifying my anxiety to levels I have never known and I just can’t stay on it like this - I just wondered whether getting at least down to a lower dose might ease some of it - if I only do 10% it’s too long I just can’t go on in this state 

 

13 hours ago, Kernol said:

I have now changed the regimen for lorazepam to space it out  but it has not made a difference to the symptoms. I am now waking every night at 3am with a huge electrical rush of Adrenalin that goes all tingling burning over my head arms chest stomach and I then cannot return to sleep. I am now convinced it is the sertraline. 

 

What should I do? I still have parasthesia all across my stomach continually and that is not easing. I have been on 100mg now for 10 days and things are worse?

 

Kernol, what times of day do you take each of your drugs, and the dosages? We need to know this. Please be sure to answer questions from the staff.

 

When did you move the lorazepam around, from what times to what times?

 

When did this 3 a.m. waking start? Has this gotten worse since you reduced sertraline?

 

It's possible your symptoms at 3 a.m. are breakthrough symptoms from lorazepam. Getting your lorazepam dosing spread out may help. You need to work with @Shep on this.

 

My guess is if you can get the lorazepam spread out effectively, it will be easier for you to go off sertraline.

[Shep]

5 hours ago, Kernol said:

Symptoms are: 

 

Electric feeling throughout my chest during day

Noctrunal Panic attacks every night with electricity feeling running down my arms chest back

 Nightmares

Heightened anxiety 24/7

Burning skin paraesthesia across my stomach area (past 3-4weeks)

V depressed mood

 

We need to know the name of the drug, doses, and the times you are taking your drugs. 

 

Please go back to the format you were using in this post. 

 

[Carmie]

Hi Kernol, 

 

I know that this journey is extremely hard, I was bawling my eyes out last night, but please give Shep the information she needs. Thanks. Sending hugs🤗

[Kernol]

6am woke panicky but not as severe panic as previously 

7am 0.5 lorazepam 

12pm 0.5 lorazepam

5pm 0.5 lorazepam

10pm 0.5 lorazepam + 100mg sertraline 

5am woke in panic but not as severe as previously 

 

burning sensation on skin is there all the time 

 

 

 

 

@Altostrata I read in the reinstatement topic that if adverse reactions are bad you can do a faster taper 25% instead of 10% - does this apply to me still? 

 

[Kernol]

Thanks I have done this now - I hope you can give me some idea of the sertraline taper now as I am pretty certain it is not the lorazepam causing the anxiety during day or the night problems - I really feel it is the sertraline 

[Altostrata]

14 hours ago, Kernol said:

6am woke panicky but not as severe panic as previously 

7am 0.5 lorazepam 

12pm 0.5 lorazepam

5pm 0.5 lorazepam

10pm 0.5 lorazepam + 100mg sertraline 

5am woke in panic but not as severe as previously 

 

When did you start this lorazepam schedule? It will take about 4 days to settle out.

[Kernol]

5 days ago.

 

 

[Shep]

On 1/10/2019 at 3:31 AM, Kernol said:

I hope you can give me some idea of the sertraline taper now as I am pretty certain it is not the lorazepam causing the anxiety during day or the night problems - I really feel it is the sertraline 

 

What "night problems" are you having? 

 

From what you've posted here:

 

On 1/10/2019 at 3:29 AM, Kernol said:

10pm 0.5 lorazepam + 100mg sertraline 

5am woke in panic but not as severe as previously 

 

It looks like you are sleeping all night until 5 am.

 

Are you waking up in the middle of the night? If so, what time(s)? 

[Kernol]

Last night I woke 12am 2am 4am in panic and nightsweats 

[Shep]

18 minutes ago, Kernol said:

Last night I woke 12am 2am 4am in panic and nightsweats 

 

Thank you, Kernol. Please include this type of information in your drug and symptoms journal. Including these details in your journal going forward will help us give you quicker advice without us having to ask so many follow-up questions. 

 

This is what we need to see every day, in this format:

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs, we need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day: Are symptoms worse at any particular times of day?

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include:

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in morning, with time and description of any symptoms in the morning
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in afternoon, with time and description of any symptoms in the afternoon
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in evening, with time and description of any symptoms in the evening
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in middle of the night, with time and description of any symptoms in the middle of the night (such as waking)
 
And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 
6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

 

Questions:

• Do you think that moving the Zoloft to morning might help? 
• Are you able to go back to sleep after waking up each time? 
• Do the nightsweats and panic go away in the morning when you take your first dose of lorazepam? 
• Do you have sweats and panic during the day or is this only at night? If they are during the day, when do they happen? 

 

We're trying to figure out if this is coming from the Zoloft or if it's interdose withdrawal from the lorazepam. It's possible that moving your Zoloft to morning will help. You're asking about decreasing the Zoloft, but it may be more beneficial to move the Zoloft to the daytime, as opposed to making a 10% reduction. 

 

If you decide to move the Zoloft, please note it's best to move the dose one hour per day. So instead of taking it at 10 pm, you'll take it tonight at 9 pm, tomorrow night at 8 pm, and so forth, until it's moved all the way to morning. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this, as well as answering the above questions. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Shep
added an additional question

[Kernol]

Hi @Shep

 

- i have always taken it at night because it made me drowsy when I first started it 10 years ago - I am not sure I want to be any more drowsy because I am taking the lorazepam as well?

 

- I have fitful sleep waking in panic every hour but to be honest that is normal when I am in a very anxious state

 

- yes the panic lessens with the morning dose of lorazepam 

 

- no sweats during the day but very high anxiety once the lorazepam dose wears off 

 

the burning paraesthesia on my stomach is not getting any better (had 4/5weeks since they increased from 50mg)  and I am worried about this as I had that on my leg when tapering down last year and I can’t understand why it would be happening now when taking the drug. It also started on same part of my leg that I had it last year in last few days.  Is this likely to go away?? Also tingling feelings in my head and face come and go