Dejavu: can anyone tell me what's going on?

[ShiningLight]

I don't think anger is counterproductive, especially if it's something you haven't been in touch with before. I mean, obviously don't live there for years, but I think it's better than turning it on yourself, as in depression. I agree with what has already been said, to harness it.

 

Well behaved women rarely make history, as they say. You have a lot to be mad about.

[Dejavu]

@ShiningLight

1 hour ago, ShiningLight said:

Well behaved women rarely make history, as they say. 

Damn right!

 

We all have a lot to be mad about. I've always been the long-suffering type, and I was taken quite by surprise at the intensity of my anger.  I agree with you that it can be productive if channeled properly. I'm still working that all out. But looking back on that moment, I felt like I finally stood up for myself. It felt like a kind of self-care, to be honest. This is new. But sort of liberating, too. 

[sunnysideup69]

@Dejavu, sending hugs, hoping this wave settles for you very soon.

[Frogie]

Just thought I’d drop by and see how you were doing?

 

 I hope you are feeling better.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[Dejavu]

@sunnysideup69 and @Frogie-

Thanks for checking up on me. I am gradually starting to shake off this wave. Morning anxiety is 95% gone. Still a little trembly and dizzy. But overall, I think I'm settling a little. Knock wood. On Saturday, I cried off and on all day. I think it was my body's reaction to the anxiety finally easing up. After that is when I started to notice improvement with the other symptoms as well. I'm going to settle in for a nice long hold through the rest of the summer, and then resume a more gradual taper. It's frustrating at times, but the good news I keep telling myself is that I have so far cut my drug load by 25% since reinstatement, and by 30 mgs from my original dose. And that's something to be proud of. 

 

Sunny, I hope you're feeling more and more stable. I know it's right around the corner for you.

 

Frogie, how goes the tail end of the taper? You're so close - can you taste the victory? You have fought the good fight for so long!

[Frogie]

I’m so glad to hear you’re feeling better. Fantastic news! Waves s**k, don’t they? But just know, they are usually short lived and you can get on with your life after that. I’m so happy to hear your anxiety is leaving you. I have anxiety, not fun at all.

 

 I’m doing relatively well, thanks for asking. Xanax tapers are so much different than the Lexapro taper was. But I’m going to make it. 
 

Thanks to everyone here and this site😊

 

Hang in there, it will get better ❤️ slow and steady wins the race 🐢
 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

Edited July 20, 2020 by Frogie

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Dejavu, yes, am definitely on the right track, been feeling pretty okay, some days even in a good mood! Wow! Had forgotten that feeling. 

Glad to read your wave is letting up.

A good cry is so cathartic. Sometimes I can't cry, due to the drugs, but other times I can cut thru the drug numbness and have a really good bawl and it's so therapeutic.

[RachelSusan]

@Dejavu

 

Hi Dejavu,

 

I came by to check up on you. I'm pleased to read that you are gradually feeling better. It's very frightening when the old symptoms (and possibly some new symptoms) come back into your life. It feels like the whole ugly mess is starting up. But you are on the right track and I am so happy to hear it.

 

Warm wishes,

RS

[Dejavu]

Thank you @RachelSusan. It's slow going, but I'm seeing gradual improvement. This has been a very long 16 days, but nothing about this odyssey is quick, is it? Hope you are feeling well. I'm very happy you are slowly closing in on the end of the tapering journey. Stay the course!

[RachelSusan]

Thank you my friend.  I will stay the course.  😀

[Dejavu]

16 days into this wave. Many things are very gradually improving, but you wouldn't know that by today. Today has been tough. Neuro-emotions have had me all day long. Ongoing Corona concerns here in the southwest US don't help my state of mind one bit, either. I'm struggling with chemical depression today - a feeling that not only are things not okay now, but they will never be okay again. Of course I know better - I will stabilize and resume my taper, we will at some point figure a way to vanquish this pandemic, and life will go on, but my emotions are overriding my brain right now. What a strange feeling; I start with slight morning anxiety which fades as I head toward noon. As the anxiety fades, the depression begins to creep in, followed by tearfulness. I recognize it as my body's way of relaxing and slowing down from the anxiousness, but in typical withdrawal fashion, it goes too far in the other direction. By bedtime, I feel like I've been hit by a bus. Oh, well...here's hoping for a better tomorrow.

[Tom37]

Sorry to hear today was a battle. Those wd emotions are a nightmare and make everything seem magnified by a million percent. Even though you know it’s not ‘you’ it’s still tough going but you will get through it.

 

Sorry to hear corona is causing you stress it must not be pleasant being in America at the moment especially if at risk or going through other stressful situations like wd. Here in New Zealand life is back to normal apart from closed borders so you wouldn’t even know a pandemic is happening. Only in time will we know what approach to it was the best but it definitely eases your mind knowing the government is doing everything it can to keep us safe. 
 

Keep going you will feel good and stable again.

[Dejavu]

Hey Tom, thanks for the support. I hope you are doing better.

 

It is frightening being in the US right now. You did things right in New Zealand - we've done everything wrong here. It depresses me to no end to realize we are the laughingstock of the world right now. These are very troubling and stressful times in this country - there is scary news literally everywhere we turn. I never in a million years thought we'd be where we are. We have an extremely critical election coming up in November, and the anticipatory stress is so thick in the air you can feel it. I'm trying hard to stay positive. Sometimes though, I just don't have it in me. I miss seeing my family and friends. I miss playing music. I miss working. I miss date night with the hubs. Every day is the same - spent in the house. Even if I were to magically come out of this wave tomorrow...well, see all of the above. So what good would it even do to be well?  It's quite disheartening. Sorry to whine. Just hard to find reasons to go on at the moment. Hopefully, tomorrow is a better day.

[Tom37]

It’s quite hard to believe how so many countries got the response wrong when we could all see it coming. Have family in the uk and it’s been tough going for them too. At least if not feeling too well no obligations at all other than to stay home so there is that little positive. I don’t think a lot of us here realise how lucky we are at the moment.

 

This election definitely seems like a crucial time for your country so hopefully the people get it right but you are so divided it’s hard to know which way it will go

Take care and better days will be coming.

 

 

 

[Dejavu]

1 hour ago, Tom37 said:

This election definitely seems like a crucial time for your country so hopefully the people get it right but you are so divided it’s hard to know which way it will go

We truly are. It's so sad. This is a very dark time in our history. But I'm desperately hoping that decency and compassion will win out. If it goes the wrong way, we can't even become expats. No other country will have us right now...lol!!

[Miyan]

Hi Tom I'm also tapering Escitalopram

Whats your current dose ? How doea you tapering as liquid suspension or anything else. Anyway sorry for ma english 

[Dejavu]

Just need to vent (and journal) a little. I'm so very tired. I really didn't expect this wave. It seemed at the time I was doing everything right. I held for a year at my reinstatement dose before tapering. I was more stable and feeling better than I could ever have hoped. The first 5% cut went great - barely even a wobble. Then I got cocky, I guess, although it didn't seem like cockiness. I felt I had to find out whether I could tolerate a 10% drop. I hated to think that I could possibly have cut my taper time in half, but lacked the courage to try. So 6 weeks later, I took my 2nd cut of 10%. A few more wobbles, which I didn't care for, but thought I could mitigate them by starting a BM Slide. So a month later, 2.5% followed by another 2.5% a week later. The third week, I didn't feel ready to cut again. That should have been a red flag for me to hold steady and slow way down. Instead, I waited only an extra week and cut another 2.5%. More wobbles, so I waited 3 more weeks, and finished the 4th 2.5% cut. 6 weeks later, the anxiety and depression began. That sick chemical feeling that those of us in withdrawal know can only come from these drugs. Tremors, leg weakness, dizziness, and vision issues set in. Several other symptoms that don't bother me as much. Basically, everything I felt when I crashed in 2018 after "tapering" 50mg of zoloft in a month, but thankfully less intensely. 

 

What caused this? Differing amounts/types of cutting? Different hold times? Use of Flonase (didn't realize it was a steroid)? Stress due to COVID19 lockdown and serious political unrest in the US? All of the above? Clearly, I cannot do 10% reductions at this time. That's all I know for sure. Oh, and this: withdrawal is like the ocean. No matter how calm it is, you really don't want to turn your back on it.

 

Two and a half weeks of this wave so far. It came on strong, got a little better (a very good day Saturday) and now for the past two days, getting bad again. I haven't cut my dose since May 24. I. Am. So. Tired. Tired of tapering. Tired of holding. Tired of putting that poison in my body every night. Tired of the nagging doubts that I'll ever be free of the drug or the withdrawal, when in reality I know better. Tired of losing days, weeks, months, years, that at my age, I can ill-afford to waste. Tired of being at the mercy of something over which I have zero control. Tired of fighting an illness that takes your worst fears and uses them against you. Just tired.

 

[thelegend]

I know the feeling all too well, I am tired of it all too. Think of how far you have come, and how great it is you are coming off of this poison, nevermind how slow it takes. I would love to be where you are now, even with your setback, at least you know you can and will stabilize again. Many thoughts and prayers to you on this latest hell you are going through. It will get better!

[Tom37]

What you said is how a lot of us feel through this process and you said it well. It must be hard being stable then going back into wd like you have as I find it hard after a good window to go back. For me once I eventually get stable I don’t even know if I will ever taper as I just can’t risk going through it again. It’s not just the suffering that you go through but also those closest to you. I know it affects you even when your stable so completely understand why you want off. Hopefully this period of instability ends soon then after a good hold you can carry on.

[Dejavu]

@thelegend: Matt, you are making good progress. I know you are sick to death of hearing that, when you feel as badly as you do. But it's true, and you've seen evidence of it yourself. It took me 10 months to stabilize, and I held for another 2 before I started my taper. I'm willing to bet your next window will be wider and last much longer. You are on your way.  And for what it is worth, I had almost no windows during that time. My stabilization was more of an even - but very very slow - falling away of symptoms until almost none remained. It was very hard to endure because, like you, I wasn't getting these windows everyone talks about, so I doubted I was healing. But I stabilized just the same. As will you. 

 

I have to admit I'm pretty upset about this wave, though. I hope I can stabilize again.

[Dejavu]

@Tom37

3 hours ago, Tom37 said:

For me once I eventually get stable I don’t even know if I will ever taper as I just can’t risk going through it again. It’s not just the suffering that you go through but also those closest to you. 

I think about this all the time. My poor husband. I don't know how much more I can stand to put him through. He was so proud of me, and so relieved when I became "me" again. To see the fear and anguish in his eyes in the past 3 weeks as I've gone deeper into this wave has broken my heart. I think about how supportive and loving he is. We found each other late in life, and I feel like I am wasting what years we have left. I think about how he deserves peaceful twighlight years, and how I'm not sure I can provide that if I keep crashing every 6 months. I have been toying with continuing to taper down from 20mg to 12.5 (1/2 of a 25mg pill), then converting back from liquid to pill, and then just giving up my dream of ever coming off this poison. I'm almost 60; I imagine I could live out the rest of my life tolerating the side effects of 13.5mg. As I write this, I am in tears at the thought of losing to this drug, but I'm not sure there's an alternative. I know withdrawal isn't lethal, but if I've learned anything at all during this journey, it's that there are things worse than death. And dealing with years of tapering and withdrawal may well be one of those things. I just feel so awful and defeated right now. 

[Tom37]

I totally understand. It’s a lot for everyone to go through. I’m 39 and feel like wasting a few of my best years but I think we think that at any age. For me I don’t have side effects from the drug apart from some sleep disturbance so I have that in my favour but I definitely don’t want to be on it for the rest of my life. Did you notice the side effects lessened the lower you have gone? Maybe a gentle taper to a point where they are less bothersome then reassess after a long hold. I’m sure you will figure it out.

[Dejavu]

19 minutes ago, Tom37 said:

Did you notice the side effects lessened the lower you have gone? 

I have no idea at this point. I've only gotten down from 26.25 to 20.1 before hell broke loose. The main side effects I suffer are tremor and ridiculously increased appetite (I have to fight it constantly except in waves like now, when I have no appetite at all) and I don't think those things really changed too much. 

 

I don't want to be on it for the rest of my life either. Ive only been on them for 3.5 years. But I can't see suffering like this indefinitely. 

[ShiningLight]

1 hour ago, Dejavu said:

I'm almost 60; I imagine I could live out the rest of my life tolerating the side effects of 13.5mg. As I write this, I am in tears at the thought of losing to this drug, but I'm not sure there's an alternative. I know withdrawal isn't lethal, but if I've learned anything at all during this journey, it's that there are things worse than death. And dealing with years of tapering and withdrawal may well be one of those things. I just feel so awful and defeated right now. 

 

You don't have to decide what to do right now. It doesn't have to be Now or Never. It could just be 'not right now and reassess later,' if that's what you decide.

 

Don't underestimate the impact of the pandemic and political instability as backdrop to all of this. It's a really hard time to be in the USA, let alone taper these horrid drugs.

[FindRest]

9 hours ago, Dejavu said:

Oh, and this: withdrawal is like the ocean. No matter how calm it is, you really don't want to turn your back on it.

This is so very true! Well said! 
 

Sorry you are having an increase in symptoms. I take Flonase and haven’t experienced any issues with it. Have you, by chance, increased your magnesium lately? 

[Dejavu]

@ShiningLight

2 minutes ago, ShiningLight said:

Don't underestimate the impact of the pandemic and political instability as backdrop to all of this. It's a really hard time to be in the USA, let alone taper these horrid drugs.

Absolutely! I don't underestimate it at all. I am triggered every single day, several times a day, by everything that's happening here. I cannot watch the news. I feel trapped in my house. The hatred, stupidity, inhumanity, racism, trampling of our Constitution and denial of science is just unfathomable. We have become a running joke to the rest of the world. In this case, the sense of impending doom is actually real. 

[Dejavu]

@FindRest

4 minutes ago, FindRest said:

Have you, by chance, increased your magnesium lately? 

I wasn't taking any until this wave hit. I've taken 2 100mg tabs since then. Why do you ask?

 

With regard to Flonase, I tend to have difficulty with steroids. This wave began a couple of days after I began using it.  I doubt it was the only culprit. I think it was a combination of Flonase, uneven tapering, cuts too large for me to tolerate, and external stress due to the pandemic and everything else going on in the US at the moment. Also, I was looking at some photos taken of me and my family on July 4th, and in one photo, I appear to have a wine cooler in front of me. I do not recall drinking one, but obviously I did. After I stabilized months ago and before I started my taper, I would have a single glass of wine once a week with no problem. Once I began my taper, I stopped, but apparently I absentmindedly helped myself to a drink on the 4th. I think all this created a perfect storm of a wave. I just hope it passes relatively quickly.

[FindRest]

2 hours ago, Dejavu said:

2 hours ago, FindRest said:

Have you, by chance, increased your magnesium lately? 

I wasn't taking any until this wave hit. I've taken 2 100mg tabs since then. Why do you ask?

The reason I asked about the magnesium is that I have recently discovered that it was the cause of several small setbacks recently. All of a sudden I started having internal vibrations and jerks in the morning and sometimes the vibrations lasted through the day. There was also an uptick in my other symptoms. I stopped the magnesium and it took about a week for the symptoms to lessen, then they went away. I had taken less than 25mg of Magnesium Glycinate. 
 

Then, after things got a lot better, I took 5mg. No problem. Took it for several days. When I bumped it up to 10mg, all heck broke loose again (especially the vibrations, but also the pins/needles, neck/shoulder pain, tremors, etc).  Looking back on my notes from months ago, I discovered a similar uptick in symptoms when I had tried it before.  
 

I see you are on a lot more than that. Maybe it’s worth a try to lessen it? IDK.

[Dejavu]

It looks like you're very sensitive to magnesium. We are often over-sensitive to supplements, drugs, food, perfumes, etc., in withdrawal. Sounds like magnesium is a definite "no go" for you. 

 

Mag isn't responsible for this wave. I've taken it since I crashed in 2018, and it tends to calm me a bit, although not enough...lol!!

[Dejavu]

Three weeks into this wave, and I could use a little encouragement. Yesterday, I did have about an hour or so in the afternoon when every bit of anxiety just fell away. But of course, it returned. My brain is doing odd things: yesterday while meditating, I remembered something random that I ate last week (which was a dietary "no-no"), and the mental image of it filled me with sudden fear and dread. I've had this happen with other things besides food. Looking at pictures of childrens' playground equipment the other day produced the same fearful response. Totally random stuff. And anything that requires me to do much besides lie around evokes a fear that "I can't handle it."  My inability to handle even the slightest stress is overwhelming. Yesterday, we learned that my brother in law, who lives outside the US, has COVID (so far, he seems to be recovering, but we all know how quickly that can change), and unrelated to that, a friend's mother passed away (which triggers me because I'm still grieving my own Mom). Today, I learned that a friend's daughter was molested by a stranger who has not been apprehended, and is not likely to be. And now I am melting down. I can't even answer my phone when friends call because I don't have the stamina to explain to them what is going on (again!) with me. How can they possibly understand? Or believe? I'm not sure I'd believe it myself if it weren't happening to me. 

 

Morning anxiety continues. I sleep okay, and wake up peacefully enough, until I remember that (1) I'm pretty much right back where I started withdrawal-wise, (2) this country is in such a strange horrible frightening mess, and (3) today will be exactly like the last 5 months - no work, no seeing family, no playing music. And the knee jerk reaction to those facts is: none of those things are likely to improve. Is that reality? No, of course not. I know intellectually that all things must pass, and that time takes care of itself. But it's my first automatic waking thought and it unfortunately sets the tone for the rest of the day. It's like a total disconnect between what I objectively know and what I subjectively feel. 

 

Once I stabilized last year, I legitimately felt 95 - 99% normal. Once I began my taper, I vowed to do everything possible not to screw that up. My cuts were not excessive and my holds were long. I listened to my body. Made a fresh dose every single night. I did 97 things right. But still, it's the 3 things I did wrong that brought me right back to the dark side. I'm not a perfect woman. I'm going to make mistakes. If the punishment is going to be so disproportionate to the crime, maybe I don't have the intestinal fortitude it takes to get off this drug. But then again, the idea that I'm stuck on it forever - that I just have to give up and IT wins -  takes me to an even darker place. That's never been who I am. I made it through a benzo crash and taper in 2017, which went very smoothly. I quit smoking cigarettes cold turkey 10 years ago. Never even once smoked again. I extricated myself from a 15 year abusive marriage. Those things took a lot of strength. But I no longer see that strength in myself. Maybe I'm just done.  I've only managed to shave 6.25 mg from my drug load in 7 months. That's not much. And what does it matter anyway, if I can't get off?

 

I'd like to think I'm much stronger than I sound in this post. I feel silly and childish to post such self-pitying drivel at this stage of the game. I know I am supposed to set a good example, but it's just not in me today. If anyone could spare an inspirational word, or even just a kind word, I could really use one. I'm sure there's some good karma in it for you. Thanks.

[thelegend]

@Dejavu - I am so sorry you are finding yourself back here, I know that fear and uncertainty all too well. You have been an inspiration for me, and I know you will make it through this wave! You were stable once before and will be again, that much is certain. At that point you can decide about a taper, but you don’t need to decide that now. For now just get through each day the best you can until stability returns as you know it will, because it did before! Hang in there, it will be ok!

[Tom37]

All I know is that you will get through this. You may feel like you don’t have the strength to do it but that’s typical of wd. It takes all your weaknesses and vulnerabilities and any other stressful situations and magnifies them. You have got through it once do you will again. 

 

On the Covid front maybe try to think about it a different way. For me when we where locked down for 7 weeks I saw it as time off from having to pretend I was ‘normal’ to colleagues and everyone else.
 

Remember tapering is hard. We have no idea what our bodies can handle and to make it even harder the tapering is cumulative so while a tiny reduction each month seems like nothing it can add up to your breaking point and you don’t know until it’s happened, it’s like walking a tight rope.

[Erell]

Oh dear,

 

I recognized myself so much in your words ! This random feeling of fear about everything and everyone, the deep "I can't handle it" feeling,...

 

Please, give yourself some credit : you are stronger than you believe. Actually, we are a band of heroes fighting for life everyday.

 

This is definitely not the life we want to live. But atm, this is our lives. Only 'at the moment' : one thing we are lucky to learn from those ahead us on SA is that everything is temporary. Way too brutal, way too exhausting, BUT temporary.

 

I know how hard it is to hear and accept those words while suffering too much. But I still believe those words. 

 

We went through this once. And we got better. We will again ❤

[Dejavu]

@thelegend @Tom37 @Erell

All I have the energy for today is to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. It means a great deal that you care and understand. Thank you, and more later.

[ChessieCat]

The news that you mentioned in your post would affect anybody, not just a person going through withdrawal.

 

If you had a friend going through what you are, what would you say to them?

[Dejavu]

@ChessieCat, I honestly don't think I would have the right words. I would just hug. I'm a hugger. But now we can't even hug each other. Lack of human contact makes everything so much harder. Heartbreaking.