bertil: escitalopram / lexamil - withdrawal symptoms or not

[bertil]

Hello all

 

I would be so grateful for advice and input. I came across this information after searching the internet when I was advised to change from Leximol  Lexamil (escitalopram) to Cymbalta (duloxetine).  I have not changed and now don't plan to change.

 

I have been on Leximol on and off for 7 years.  I have stopped 4 times and each time I stop I do so quite easily without obvious symptoms, just some brain zaps and lightheadedness.  however apprx 5 months after stopping I have come down with severe gastrointestinal symptoms including weight loss , nausea gut pain and malaise.  these have always been attributed to an "unknown" gut disease and each time I get put back on Leximol as "support" while I recover which takes a few ,months- I have never suffered depression or anxiety .

 

Most recently I stopped leximol last December after tapering for 6 weeks from 15mg to 0.  Five months later in June of this year I had lost 11kg, my gut collapsed and I have been suffering gut pain, malaise and "uncomfortable" muscle sensations. 

 

I was again put back on Leximol as "support" this time to 20mg.  after 5 months they are saying I have a kindling effect and I should go to Cymbalta. 

 

I have tapered quickly down to 10mg for the change but not going to change now.  having come across this information I am wondering whether my entire problem including the physical illness I suffer is not SSRI withdrawal?   could that be possible?  my symptoms are all physical and centered in my gut with some full body malaise an fatigue?  

 

any advice how I could determine if it is SSRI withdrawal or not? I also have what I call sickness sleeps where I can sleep for 20+hours, like a crash

 

I am planning on staying at 10mg while I try and work out if this is what is going on with me

 

any advice would be so gratefully accepted

best

Bertil 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by ChessieCat
corrected drug name spelling and added spacing

[ChessieCat]

Hi bertil and welcome to SA,

 

From what you have described it sounds very much like withdrawal symptoms from stopping the escitalopram too quickly, especially because each time you started back on the drug your symptoms lessened.  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

It is possible that going on to 20mg was too much for your system after having been off for 5 months.  Please see Post #1 of this this topic:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Q:  Are you taking any other drugs?

 

Please create your drug signature using the following format.

 

Please make it nice simple by following these instructions (NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you):

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
• summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Once we have some additional information about your drug history we will be better able to offer suggestions.  This is your own Introductions topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

[bertil]

thanks.  are physical symptoms without mood symptoms common?

this is all rather frightening to me

is my signatuer ok?

[bertil]

sorry for lots of questions but this is all new

 

can WD be delayed by 5 months? I felt well and good after stopping with no WD symptoms?

 

is unintentional weight loss a WD symptom?

 

 

 

thanks so much

[Carmie]

Hi Bertie, 

 

Welcome to SA. Feel free to ask anything you like. ChessieCat will be sending you some more links and advice on delayed withdrawals etc, but I just wanted to let you know that yes, you can get all kinds of symptoms. Some people get more physical symptoms, while others get more mood symptoms and some of us get both. Also, you can lose weight or gain weight with the meds.

 

Withdrawal symptoms are all over the place. I have so many symptoms n I’ve even had physical symptoms like earaches, toothaches, burning mouth etc that I never connected with withdrawals at the time. I learnt later on when I found this site that they were withdrawal symptoms.

 

Check out the link that ChessieCat gave you in withdrawal symptoms. 

 

Withdrawals can be delayed for five months or even more. When people taper too quickly sometimes they may not even feel it straight away but it can hit them later on. 

 

We all heal in the end, but we should never taper until we feel stable again. When we are stable again we should never taper more than ten percent a month (again, check the link above).

 

Take care, sending hugs🤗

 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Withdrawal Symptoms - Delayed Onset

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

One Theory of Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

[bertil]

thanks.  I would love any advice/suggestions - I tapered very quickly (10 days) from 20mg to 10mg with the intention of switching to Cymbalta

 

I now don't want to switch to Cymbalta - do I stay at 10mg and wait for WD symptoms (light headedness and brain zaps) to settle and then start a slow taper or should I go back up to 15mg?

 

anyone else able to describe WD they experienced on Leximol? 

 

feeling shattered / scared at this discovery

thanks

Bertil

 

[bertil]

sorry, more questions

 

how common is WD symptoms with SSRI use?  I understand that SSRI prescriptions are globally in the ten of millions.  is WD as I am reading on this site the minority or majority of users?

thanks very much

Bertil 

[bubbles]

54 minutes ago, bertil said:

sorry, more questions

 

how common is WD symptoms with SSRI use?  I understand that SSRI prescriptions are globally in the ten of millions.  is WD as I am reading on this site the minority or majority of users?

thanks very much

Bertil 

 

I have met a few people who have had no symptoms, though some say they're okay but go back on again anyway. I suspect that WD is extremely common.

 

That said, I've been going extremely slowly and doing very well with my slow taper, so it doesn't have to be horrendous.

 

 

[bertil]

I would be keen to hear from people what the main WD symptoms are?

thanks

 

[Songbird]

Hi Bertil, it would be helpful to have some more details about your situation.

 

4 hours ago, bertil said:

I was again put back on Leximol as "support" this time to 20mg.  after 5 months they are saying I have a kindling effect and I should go to Cymbalta. 

 

I have tapered quickly down to 10mg for the change but not going to change now. 

 

 

How were you on the 20mg?  Who was saying you had a kindling effect and why did they think that?  How did you taper down from 20mg to 10mg - specific dates and doses would be helpful.  What symptoms are you having at the moment and how do they compare with when you were at zero and when you were on 20mg?

[bertil]

thanks @Songbird.  the psychiatrist said I had a kindling effect as going back on SSRI did not fix my gut problems and muscle symptoms that I was experiencing .  I was resistant to being on SSRI again anyway but desperate to feel better. she said change to Cymbalta would be good and I listened

 

I was on 20mg leixmol up until 10 days ago (and had been on that dose for 3 months).  I dropped rapidly to begin the change to Cymbalta and then just thought I would check if its a good idea  - now I really don't think so - so I am taking 10mg leximol for the last 3 days

 

current symptoms are thick headed feeling, bit light headed, pain in top of head and some brain zaps. not unbearable but noticeable 

 

I am really unsure if I should go back up a dose? stay at 10 until things settle?  would be grateful for advice

 

The other issue I have now is whether my general health problems are caused by SSRI use or if these are separate issues?

very scared

bertil

 

 

 

 

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, bertil said:

I would be keen to hear from people what the main WD symptoms are?

thanks

 

 

To help you understand the symptoms you are experiencing, here is some information on withdrawal.  

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

This link lists some of the common WD symptoms, but there are many, many more.  The central nervous system affects everything, mental, emotional and physical, in the body, and when the CNS is in disequilibrium, there's almost no limit to the symptoms of WD.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

 The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

Please be aware that sometime withdrawal symptoms don't appear immediately after a too-fast taper.

Delayed onset of withdrawal symptoms

 

[bertil]

thanks @Gridley

 

could you give me an opinion whether I should reinstate to a higher dose or stay at 10mg?

would be very grateful

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Songbird said:

 

 

 

How were you on the 20mg?   How did you taper down from 20mg to 10mg - specific dates and doses would be helpful.  What symptoms are you having at the moment and how do they compare with when you were at zero and when you were on 20mg?

 

We need more information, please.  Please answer Songbird's questions above.  Put the tapering information in your signature and the symptoms in your main response.

[bertil]

thanks.  it is in my signature - essentially tapered from 20 to 10 in 10 days by doing 15mg for 5 days

struggling - please advise what to do

[bertil]

please advise if I should re instate to a higher dose? I have only been off 20 mg for 10 days? should I go back to 20 or 15 or stay at 10?

WD ramping up

[Gridley]

How many days have you been at 10mg?

 

I see the answer, 10mg for 3 days, 15mg for 5 days.

 

Since you have made so many changes, I would stay at 10mg until you stabilize.  This can take several months.  

 

Please keep in mind that it takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Gridley

[bertil]

thanks very much

[bertil]

Just 2 days

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, bertil said:

I am taking 10mg leximol for the last 3 days

 

current symptoms are thick headed feeling, bit light headed, pain in top of head and some brain zaps. not unbearable but noticeable 

 

I am really unsure if I should go back up a dose? stay at 10 until things settle?  would be grateful for advice

 

Do you feel better or worse since you reduced to 10mg escilatopram?

 

What happened to your gut symptoms?

 

As ChessieCat said, your experience going on and off escilatopram, with relief of symptoms when you go back on, indicate what you were experiencing were withdrawal symptoms.

 

Those zaps, etc. are not minor -- they indicate your nervous system is feeling quite stressed from the drug changes. Please stay at 10mg escilatopram for the time being. Be sure to take it at the same time each day. I would not increase your drug intake, keep everything stable to get a good symptom record.

 

Let us know how you're doing. Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right. This will help determine whether 10mg is too high a dosage for you.

[ChessieCat]

This is an example of the symptom notes that Alto has asked you to post here in your topic for each day:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[ChessieCat]

How are you doing bertil?  Do you have any daily symptoms notes to post?