ascfgdxz: took my first ever pill today. Should I stop? Would love help, thanks

December 14, 2018

Summary: Dealing with anxiety, doc gave me drugs decided to take one, read about the effects of it, scared, don't know whether to continue

Hi, I am 22.

Had a suicide attempt and debilitating depression at age 15-16. Since then I was able to live and work on my own and get by but still hated myself, often depressed etc. In the past two months, things have gotten so bad again that I quit my job and moved in with parents. I am happy to have a supporting family but I am not doing too well. Every day stressed and anxious and can't relax because I am so worried about future. I am not used to anxiety of this level. I spoke to doctor and I will be getting therapy soon, however every hour of every day of waiting I am going a bit crazy.

My doctor prescribed me Sertraline (Zoloft), 50mg for one week and after that take 100mg (2 pills). Does this not seem very high? I have been having suicidal thoughts but it seems very high. I am trying to be open minded to drugs even though I dont really want to take them and am ashamed of them.

Yesterday I felt so so bad all day that this morning I decided **** it, I'm taking it. I took one pill, spat it out because I was scared, then I finally actually took it. Two hours passed with nothing, then I looked in the mirror and my pupils were dilated and I found my vision hard to focus. Then for the next 2-3 hours, I had so much energy, way too much, couldnt stop shaking my leg, very uncomfortable, all of my movements were quick and spaztic. I also am having diarrhea and feel sick in my stomach but I have been having that since before the drugs.

I had a phone call today that gave me hope and good news, so I feel much better today but I am unsure if it is the drugs or the good news, though I still feel pretty stressed, worried, hopeless etc. If it is the drugs, I would to feel better again. But at the same time, I don't want to be a zombie and don't want my brain to be irreversibly damaged and impossible to quit the drugs. Brain zaps, inability to handle major stresses, etc. Also very ashamed to take drugs and I live a life of moving a lot, camping for days etc, don't want to always have to bring drugs with me everywhere every day and if you forget, you will have a terrible terrible day, seems like a worse problem to have

I am finding it to be a very tough decision. It feels like A. No drugs, unhappy, feel like ****. B. Drugs, possibly happier fakely but sell your soul to big pharma and wreck your brain. So what do I do now? Can I even stop now that I have had one? I am wondering if I should stop, try to go another week without, but if I still feel horrible, then take them again? ****, I am so scared because the doctor says they are fine but everyone is reporting they are not and I just want to feel better but want to have to sell my brain in the process.

Help greatly appreciated, thank you!

December 17, 2018

Welcome, ascf.

It sounds like you had an immediate bad reaction to 50mg Zoloft, the dosage was way too high. 100mg would have been ridiculous. Your doctor must think your nervous system is made of iron.

If you don't like the effect of a psychiatric drug, don't take it. Doctors will try to persuade you to accept the side effects, but if they make you feel bad, they're not helping, are they?

It's up to you to decide whether you want to take a drug to solve your problems. This is a site for going off drugs, we can't tell you if you should take an antidepressant or any psychiatric drug.

Many people manage their symptoms without drugs, psychotherapy and learning about yourself is a good first step.

December 18, 2018

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Welcome, ascf.

It sounds like you had an immediate bad reaction to 50mg Zoloft, the dosage was way too high. 100mg would have been ridiculous. Your doctor must think your nervous system is made of iron.

If you don't like the effect of a psychiatric drug, don't take it. Doctors will try to persuade you to accept the side effects, but if they make you feel bad, they're not helping, are they?

It's up to you to decide whether you want to take a drug to solve your problems. This is a site for going off drugs, we can't tell you if you should take an antidepressant or any psychiatric drug.

Many people manage their symptoms without drugs, psychotherapy and learning about yourself is a good first step.

Hi Altostrata,

I ended up taking them for 4 days and I stopped today, they had a very bad effect on me. I agree that from never taking drugs going all the way to 100mg in a week seems insane but who am I to question my doctor, I believe she thinks I am crazy

I understand it is possible that the drugs in only 4 days had no effect on me and it was all placebo because they aren't supposed to affect you for two weeks or more, I am not sure what to really blame. But since starting the drugs, my legs would shake for hours at first, nausea, dilated pupils, very hard to focus, hard to read, have to read the same sentence three times.Had a panic attack on the first day because I was scared I ruined my brain. The further I took these drugs, the more numb and totally careless I became while at the same time having anxious breathing and feeling terrible, suicidal thoughts became more serious, I spent an entire day on my couch staring at the ceiling. I became less nauseous but the other symptoms remained and the scariest of all was what happened at night.

I have never had this happen before but on these drugs at night, vivid patterns and colours were seen when I closed my eyes or totally random images and shapes. And when I was getting very close to falling asleep, I would hear weird sounds like a pop, beeps or voices all from inside my head. The voices were basically just my thoughts but amplified in voice in my head. Even once while just waking up or while trying to nap, I heard a boy yelling mommy, a ravens call, a baby crying. I was so scared that I had gone schizophrenic that I had another panic attack. I have since learned about hypnagogia and believe that this is what I have been suffering, hopefully it goes away with the drugs? This is just one more reason my doctor is going to think I am crazy

I called my doctors office and she treats me like I am an ignorant child and that everything I have been feeling is bullsh*t because they shouldn't affect me in such a short time period. She says she will discuss a different medicine when I see her this Friday and I can stop the current one, so I did.

When I see her next, I might take the prescription but avoid taking the drugs. I am so, so terrified of them but at the same time I am still having such a rough time and panic attacks etc and drugs seem to do wonders for some people. The Lorazepam has been very useful though for when I have panic attacks, I wonder if its a good idea to try marijuanna. (Legal here, never tried)

Thanks for the comment.

February 20, 2019

Topic title: Wellbutrin XL is helping me but so worried about long term effects, advice?

Hi, I am 22 and dealing with a bout of depression. My first was age 15 where I was hospitalized, I have been depressed since then but it had gotten worse and worse. I spent the last 3 months unemployed, back with parents and trying to improve. I need to get a job and stop wasting time but I am still not much better.

8 days ago I started Wellbutrin and it seems to be helping? But it's hard to tell if I am better or not or if it's the drugs or not. The only negative symptom I have is tinnitus which seems really common but also life lasting. I am really scared I will kill myself and I mainly don't want to for the sake of my family. The drugs seem to be helping me not want to die as much though I still have urges every day. I tried Sertraline 2 months ago for 4 days and never want an SSRI again because it gave me hypnagogia and made me much worse.

Does anyone have anything comforting to say about my fears of these drugs? Thank you

Edited February 21, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

February 21, 2019

On 12/17/2018 at 9:33 PM, ascfgdxz said:

The Lorazepam has been very useful though for when I have panic attacks, I wonder if its a good idea to try marijuanna. (Legal here, never tried)

13 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

8 days ago I started Wellbutrin and it seems to be helping?

Ascfgdxz, we are a site for coming off these drugs, not going on them.

How often are you taking Lorazepam? Please note Lorazepam is a benzodiazepine (benzo), which causes dependency in as little as 2 - 4 weeks, even with periodic use.

As Altostrata noted, it sounds like you had an adverse reaction to Zoloft. And now you are experimenting with Wellbutrin, in addition to using a benzo.

13 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

Does anyone have anything comforting to say about my fears of these drugs?

Sounds like you have a very healthy fear of drugs, which is very good. These drugs have destroyed millions of lives.

For more on this, please get a copy of this book, which comes highly recommended on this site:

Anatomy of an Epidemic

A book trailer video by the author, Robert Whitaker:

Robert Whitaker, author Anatomy of an Epidemic video (11.5 minutes)

If you wish to handle your problems without drugs, please seek out a trauma-informed counselor, such as a psychologist who cannot prescribe drugs. Learning techniques such as mindfulness can be very helpful and learning to deal with past traumas can be very empowering and set yourself up for a long life of happiness.

For more on non-drug ways of coping, please see:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

How is your diet? You may want to look into eliminating caffeine and sugar, making sure you're getting plenty of protein and healthy veggies every day.

Are you exercising? Exercise has not only been proven to be very effective for depression, it's also been proven to be more effective when you're NOT on an antidepressant.

Exercise was more effective in the long term than sertraline or exercise plus sertraline for major depression in older adults

If you want someone to help you set up a drug cocktail because you wish to continue taking psychiatric drugs, we cannot help you here. You would be better served with an online support site like depressionforums.org or patientslikeme.com.

However, if you wish to have more information on these drugs in order to not take them and to deal with a possible benzo dependency, please add a signature. Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can.

Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs.
This is a direct link to your signature: Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

February 21, 2019

Hey Shep, I really appreciate the comment!

I will just say that I don't know what to believe about antidepressants, I am not an expert and I am not on any side of the issue except wanting for me to get better. What I think I know is that the "Chemical imbalance" theory is total bullsh*t, doctors hand this stuff out like candy and tell you little at all about how it works, what it does, longterm consequences, side effects etc. However, it also seems to help some people and definitely is not only a placebo as it has been proven in double blind tests.

So I was going to swear off drugs altogether after my horrible experience with zoloft and not wanting to have permanent sexual dysfunction etc. Then I learned about Wellbutrin and it is not an SSRI, works totally differently and kicks in quickly and has far less side effects and very unaddictive. As far as I understand and I could be wrong, it is a pretty "easy, safe, lower-risk" alternative to traditional SSRIs.

I tried this drug, on day 2 I had way too much energy and many negative side effects, day 3 I had the honey moon period where I felt like no problems matters and I felt so happy and way too full of dopamine, I just wanted to relax and do nothing because I was content. Then the rest of the days I felt no different than usual except my suicidal thought were a lot less but I still had moments of incredible despair and suicidality, particularly in the morning and at night, likely because of a lack of drugs? It is hard to tell, especially because I started employing CBT at around the same time which has been very helpful and I'm not sure if its the CBT that is making me feel good or not. I am just frustrated why doctors dont tell me any of how this works or what I am likely to experience etc, its just "take this and you may feel better, who knows". I know that I have been somewhat depressed my whole life and this is possibly helping, even if its palcebo? I dont know. I have had really low libido for a young male and this drug has really improved that, more often and better quality.

I dont want to take drugs especially out of fear of permanent consequences like never being able to stop, being really ***** up if I forget pills and permanent tinnitus (I am experiencing a bit since this drug). But on the other hand, I was very actively suicidal before this and so out of control and powerless over feeling terrible. Once you start these drugs, you are supposed to take it for 6-12 months before stopping, I dont know if I want to give up the time I have put in to have it balance out in my brain and now suffer 4 days of terrible side effects getting off of them. The brain zaps and stuff do scare the **** out of me, already I experience weird stuff like a flash of light with my eyes closed at night and I heard a big zap noise and felt lightheaded and a headache when i first started.

I am open minded and really would love feedback. I totally agree that these drugs are lied about how they work, overprescribed and often very harmful with permanent consequences. However, I believe for me on this drug at this dose only for 6-12 months, it may make sense. Hopefully by that time, I have a job, friends, cognitive skills and a support network and can come off these drugs. Thank you for any feedback

Quote

2 hours ago, Shep said:

How often are you taking Lorazepam?

Also, I am barely taking it at all. In the past 3 months, I have taken in total 5 or 6mg. I have only been using it for emergencies

February 21, 2019

6 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

What I think I know is that the "Chemical imbalance" theory is total bullsh*t,

again-chemical-imbalance-is-a-myth-stop-the-lies-please

6 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

Then I learned about Wellbutrin and it is not an SSRI, works totally differently and kicks in quickly and has far less side effects and very unaddictive. As far as I understand and I could be wrong, it is a pretty "easy, safe, lower-risk" alternative to traditional SSRIs.

Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, SR, XR, XL (buproprion)

February 22, 2019

22 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

So I was going to swear off drugs altogether after my horrible experience with zoloft and not wanting to have permanent sexual dysfunction etc. Then I learned about Wellbutrin and it is not an SSRI, works totally differently and kicks in quickly and has far less side effects and very unaddictive. As far as I understand and I could be wrong, it is a pretty "easy, safe, lower-risk" alternative to traditional SSRIs.

We have dozens of people on this forum experiencing withdrawal from Wellbutrin, so although it has been reported to come with a lower reported rate of withdrawal syndrome , it is still not safe from causing dependency. It also can cause suicidal thoughts, just like other antidepressants.

There is no shortcut when dealing with human emotions. A therapist who does trauma-informed counseling or a mindfulness-based counselor is a much safer and more effective way of healing the mind.

February 22, 2019

1 hour ago, Shep said:

We have dozens of people on this forum experiencing withdrawal from Wellbutrin, so although it has been reported to come with a lower reported rate of withdrawal syndrome , it is still not safe from causing dependency. It also can cause suicidal thoughts, just like other antidepressants.

There is no shortcut when dealing with human emotions. A therapist who does trauma-informed counseling or a mindfulness-based counselor is a much safer and more effective way of healing the mind.

Thank you for the reply. I may ask if I can quit these drugs then. But it's not like I can afford a therapist who does trauma informed counselling or a mindfulness based counselor.

Feels like theres no hope or ability for me to get better, if I reach out I just get handed drugs alongside lies about chemical imbalances and the drugs often dont make things better.

I have no one I can talk to without being locked up in a hospital, I really don't know how I am going to survive this

February 23, 2019

I'm not a mod so can't advise you on how to get off your drugs. What I would advise is, stay away from hospitals and p-docs to the very best of your ability. What they will do, if you consult them, is drug you further and make your condition possibly far worse. Adding another drug on top of the drugs you are already prescribed is like playing Russian roulette with your brain.

Remember, this is a TEMPORARY situation, and with help, you will get past it. With time, you will heal. In the meantime, do you have a friend or family member you can be with to feel safe? I can understand why you might not be able to access a therapist. Maybe you could join an online discussion group, or find a member here to chat with. There is also a Surviving Antidepressants Facebook private group you could join to hook up with other people struggling with the same concerns. There are tons of self-help materials posted all over the internet, e.g., free online CBT and plenty of sites with spiritual advice. Don't give up the fight! So many others in your situation have struggled in similar ways and came out doing well on the other end.

February 23, 2019

8 hours ago, DrugfreeProf said:

I'm not a mod so can't advise you on how to get off your drugs. What I would advise is, stay away from hospitals and p-docs to the very best of your ability. What they will do, if you consult them, is drug you further and make your condition possibly far worse. Adding another drug on top of the drugs you are already prescribed is like playing Russian roulette with your brain.

Remember, this is a TEMPORARY situation, and with help, you will get past it. With time, you will heal. In the meantime, do you have a friend or family member you can be with to feel safe? I can understand why you might not be able to access a therapist. Maybe you could join an online discussion group, or find a member here to chat with. There is also a Surviving Antidepressants Facebook private group you could join to hook up with other people struggling with the same concerns. There are tons of self-help materials posted all over the internet, e.g., free online CBT and plenty of sites with spiritual advice. Don't give up the fight! So many others in your situation have struggled in similar ways and came out doing well on the other end.

Thank you and everyone else. I am struggling and I don't know if I'll ever get better. But I am quitting Wellbutrin XL 150mg today after 13 days. I am thankful for finding this resource before my brain is damaged severely. Thank you

February 23, 2019

3 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

But I am quitting Wellbutrin XL 150mg today after 13 days.

You likely aren't dependent yet, ascfgdxz.

Please let us know how you do.

8 hours ago, DrugfreeProf said:

With time, you will heal. In the meantime, do you have a friend or family member you can be with to feel safe? I can understand why you might not be able to access a therapist. Maybe you could join an online discussion group, or find a member here to chat with. There is also a Surviving Antidepressants Facebook private group you could join to hook up with other people struggling with the same concerns. There are tons of self-help materials posted all over the internet, e.g., free online CBT and plenty of sites with spiritual advice. Don't give up the fight! So many others in your situation have struggled in similar ways and came out doing well on the other end.

DFP is giving you excellent advice, ascfgdxz.

Here are some great online help available immediately and for free:

Online Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) - a free 8 week online course

Free online Cognitive Behavior Therapy lessons

The Dr. Claire Weekes method of recovering from a sensitized nervous system

EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques)

Reframe stress to become more resilient

Art Therapy

Journaling / Journalling / Writing Therapy / Therapeutic Writing

Music Therapy / Music for Wellness and Healing

And there are excellent books on dealing with trauma. This is one I read and learned a great deal from:

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma

A great book on dealing with grief (if that's on of your traumas):

The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief

If these don't interest you, explore others. Go visit your neighborhood library and spend some time surrounding yourself with helpful books.

Is there a yoga class near you that's affordable? Or a Tai Chi class? Check out the resources in your area for free mindfulness sit-ins. All of these are great ways of healing from trauma.

Meet-Up is another great place to look.

Meet Up - Canada

You may also want to check out the Mad in America site and give these practitioners a call. They may have sliding scales or know of therapists who do.

Mad in America - Provider Directory - Canada

February 23, 2019

Ok I don't understand these forums, I keep trying to start a new topic and it keeps forcing it into a comment on an old post, wtf? This is frustrating me to no end. This original post has little to do with the current one and is about tapering, so why does it keep getting force onto this old thread?

I've only been on it two weeks and it's a relatively low dose. Anyone have any experience how this might go? What I may experience and for how long?

Going on it, the first four days days were hellish and weird.

Day 1: Heard a loud zap sound and then immediately felt light headed, major headaches all day, insomnia all night, stomach/chest pain and rapid pulse

Day 2: Wayyyyy too much energy, felt like I took cocaine and couldn't relax

Day 3: Mid-day I felt euphoria and felt so happy and content, I just wanted to lay down and do nothing because I was so happy and optimistic. Honestly felt high, it was too much

Day 4-7: Felt better throughout day but had severe low spots that were worse than before. I think I mainly started feeling better because I was enjoying time with family and started CBT

Day 8-13: I dont feel any effects anymore, I feel just as bad as before (Maybe slightly better because of CBT) but now I have issues focussing, tinnitus, and more anxious than before, though my libido has improved

Anyways I am quitting today cold turkey, I hope it won't be more than 3 or 4 days of withdrawal symptoms

SIDE NOTE:

If I am suicidal and want help, I just want to talk about it and get help, I don't want to effectively be punished and lose my rights and freedoms because of it. I don't really want to die but I am struggling and I am basically not allowed to talk to anyone without getting locked up and forcefully medicated, and branded mentally ill like I am so different than a normal human. No one wants to talk to me except tell me to call a hotline that essentially doesn't care and will just give platitudes or have police break down my door. My doctor wanted to give me way too high of a dose of a serious drug (100mg of sertraline) and basically didn't believe me when I said it made me hear voices at night and she kind of thinks I am schizophrenic now, even though it all went away when I stopped the drugs. The psychiatrist doesn't care either, he gives me a lot of attitude and basically doesn't believe me when I told him how bad my symptoms were, as though I am just exaggerating or lying. Anyone I talk to about these drugs gives me attitude for having questions about how they work and basically reacts by treating me like a conspiracy theorist with confirmation bias. Then the professionals don't have answers but feel defensive and start using as much scientific lingo as they can to shut me down without actually addressing any of my concerns and in other words just being like "See? I know more than you so shut up". But they still keep trying to tell me my brain is chemically imbalanced and no tests at all have been done on my brain and that theory has been so discredited yet it still gets pushed by the experts. I am just handed pills with no explanation of the risks or side effects or what it will be like or the long term usage. I'm now experiencing tinnitus on Wellbutrin for the first time in my life and thousands of other people seem to suffer the same thing but I am treated like I am crazy for thinking it has to do with the Wellbutrin.

I know I shouldn't just shake my fist at society. But seriously, seems like mental health is an epidemic (largely I believe due to isolation because of technology) and all that's done is more punishment for being suicidal, being more ostracized, more damage to your brain, being listened to even less. You can't even trust the experts, I am pretty well alone to fix this and I am trying but I don't know if I can. CBT is helping a lot though, thanks for the support guys

February 23, 2019

I moved your latest post from the tapering section and placed it here in your intro. Please keep posting here about your taper so all of your information is in one place.

Also, please set up a signature. Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can.

Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs.
This is a direct link to your signature: Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

23 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

If I am suicidal and want help, I just want to talk about it and get help, I don't want to effectively be punished and lose my rights and freedoms because of it.

Have you checked out this resource?

55 minutes ago, Shep said:

You may also want to check out the Mad in America site and give these practitioners a call. They may have sliding scales or know of therapists who do.

Mad in America - Provider Directory - Canada

It's the weekend, so they may not be open, but you could compile a list of phone numbers to call on Monday and check out their individual websites. If you need immediate assistance, please see:

For those who are feeling desperate or suicidal

How is your diet? A lot of psych problems can be caused by vitamin B12 and D deficiency. Are you getting plenty of protein throughout the day? Staying away from alcohol, caffeine, and sugar?

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

You may find this to be helpful as you come off your AD.

Please let us know how you do over the coming days.

February 23, 2019

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Please let us know how you do.

Thank you for the support.

My plan right now is to keep self-teaching myself CBT, occasionally dish out $220 to see a therapist once every month or two, keep my guns far away from myself, try really hard to make friends, quit these drugs. What else might be a good idea to add to get out of this?

Some of the issues I encounter are that I move ALL the time and I live somewhere usually for 8 months on average at a time and usually rural areas where its hard to meet people. Friends is the most significant area that I lack in in my life alongside self esteem. So I think it's crucial to fix that but so hard to make friends in a rural area, we'll see.

Also, I have never smoked weed but it's legal here, I am wondering if a high CBD strain would be helpful or harmful.

The only support I may use is my old sister who is very logical and helpful, but I believe if she knew I was suicidal at all, she would tell my family which would be very bad for me.

Thanks for providing me those links. The CBT link will be helpful and so will the practitioners list. Unfortunately the list only has 6 people and the closest is 4 hours away one-way

I am mostly healthy, young and skinny and I am outside a lot. I take zero supplements except maybe once a week I take a vitamin D and Omega3 because I stumble across it on the kitchen counter. My diet could be better though, a lot of carbs, sugar, fat and oil but I don't eat a lot. Could use more fruit, vegetable and protein. I always though the supplements and vitamins didn't really do anything. What does Magnesium actually do and how much should you take? Oh and I take a LOT of coffee and drink maybe once a day

Thank you very much for the help, very appreciated

February 23, 2019

22 minutes ago, Shep said:

Have you checked out this resource?

What resource?

February 23, 2019

4 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

What resource?

Mad in America - Provider Directory - Canada

9 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

keep my guns far away from myself,

Please turn them over to your parents or others who can keep them away from you. What you're going through now is temporary, ascfgdxz.

You will feel better.

10 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

Also, I have never smoked weed but it's legal here, I am wondering if a high CBD strain would be helpful or harmful.

Please see:

Cannabis for Treating Psychiatric Problems? A Clear Yes, Maybe.

Cannabis, marijuana, THC, and CBD or Hemp oil

You may want to wait until you see how destabilized your nervous system is due to your recent experimentations with psych drugs before you ingest anything else. You have a history of being sensitive to drugs, so you may also be with marijuana. Best to wait until your system can handle it.

15 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

My diet could be better though, a lot of carbs, sugar, fat and oil but I don't eat a lot. Could use more fruit, vegetable and protein. I always though the supplements and vitamins didn't really do anything

They do a LOT. It sounds like you really would benefit from cleaning up your diet. Carbs and sugar can cause fatigue which can be conflated with depression.

17 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

What does Magnesium actually do and how much should you take?

Please see the link I posted in my last post.

It's very calming to the nervous system. Start with a low dose to see how you react. If it helps with anxiety and sleep, you can slowly increase the dose. Most people find it's helpful to not take it all at one time. You'll find other tips in that link.

20 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

Oh and I take a LOT of coffee and drink maybe once a day

You may want to cut down on coffee if you're feeling anxious and avoid alcohol for now. At least until you see how destabilized your nervous system is from the AD withdrawal.

21 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

The only support I may use is my old sister who is very logical and helpful, but I believe if she knew I was suicidal at all, she would tell my family which would be very bad for me.

instead of saying your suicidal, you may just say you're struggling and seeking non-drug approaches to handle your emotions. If you don't present with a crisis, others are more likely to not over-react.

22 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

Thanks for providing me those links. The CBT link will be helpful and so will the practitioners list. Unfortunately the list only has 6 people and the closest is 4 hours away one-way

When you call them, ask if they know of resources that are in your area.

23 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

Some of the issues I encounter are that I move ALL the time and I live somewhere usually for 8 months on average at a time and usually rural areas where its hard to meet people. Friends is the most significant area that I lack in in my life alongside self esteem. So I think it's crucial to fix that but so hard to make friends in a rural area, we'll see.

If this is due to work, perhaps you need to seek out training and education so you have better options.

Finding meaningful work and having more opportunities are likely to help with your depression.

This is nothing that needs to be decided today, but thinks to discuss as you are able to find a therapist.

February 23, 2019

Please if you can find any way to cope with your depression without using antidepressants or other psychiatric drugs, ie. making small positive changes in your life, plan for a future you can get excited about, trying to identify and spend time doing things you enjoy, engaging with loved ones, cognitive behavioural therapy or mindfulness, exercise, healthy eating etc.; many people on this site including myself would give anything to go backwards in time and not make the mistake of becoming dependent on a substance that can have negative consequences down the line for both your physical and mental health. Remember depression is generally self limiting without treatment and is unlikely to persist for months and years without improvement.Try to hang in there and exhaust every technique to make it bearable without resorting to drugging yourself. Recovering from withdrawal or side effects of these drugs, which can actually induce depression and anxiety and decrease your enjoyment of life however can take years or in some cases may not be possible to resolve entirely. Withdrawal induced akathisia, cognitive issues, movement disorders, anhedonia will likely make your depression look like a walk in the park. I'm not at all attempting to minimise the suffering you're going through, I know depression can be extremely debilitating but there are ways to work through it, I promise.

February 23, 2019

44 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please turn them over to your parents or others

Right now I have them all and my firearms license far away in a cabin 3.5 hours away, so I feel pretty safe and I wouldn't die by any other method. You're right though, I do feel better because I am forced to find solutions other than suicide. I do not wish to tel lanyone because then people would never want me to have guns again and not trust me anymore.

I read what you linked about marijuanna, great in-depth article. My doctor gave me a ton of Lorazepram and I am really scared of getting addicted, so I ONLY use during extreme distress and anxiety attack, I have used about 7mg over the past 3 months which isn't too bad. But considering the risk of benzos, I can see the point that maybe cannabis is a safer option than that? In Canada, I can get marijuanna that is guaranteed safe and I can pick and choose strains for more CBD etc but it's expensive, so at least it's "safe" weed. Also, I haven't smoked weed ever (I am 22) so my brain is mostly finished developing and it's not like I have a bad history with marijuanna or have overused it in the past or anything, which may make me more likely to have a good time with it. I just literally don't know where to begin with weed or which method is best to take it. I also dont know if I will smell like it, if my I should tell my family and I worry that I would love it so much that I will want to do it all the time and lose my ambition and become complacent. All my friends who do weed, do it all the time, every day and are really lazy and have no ambition, is it likely I would be the same? I think it would be fantastic though to be able to relax with marijuanna when I am feeling badly. I think if I try, I shouldn't be alone, but I dont know anyone to smoke with, I have no friends here. I also think it should be a very high cbd ratio and low thc but still some. I have a suspicious I will get really high really easily. I don't know if it's a good or bad idea to in 1-4 weeks from now try weed, I wish I wasn't alone in it

Ok good advice, I am going to try and reduce carbs/sugar and increase fruit/veggies. I will cut down on booze too but I don't know if I can give up coffee.

Ok I read about magnesium, thank you. I am just wondering if magnesium plus alcohol or marijuanna is a bad combination? Also it says to start with 25mg, but you are at 300mg, so are you constantly needing to up the dosage? Are there any down sides to this medication?

Hmmm, I may contact my sister, thanks for the advice.

1 hour ago, Shep said:

but thinks to discuss as you are able to find a therapist.

I don't understand. Also, I move a lot because of school mainly and work, the next moves I am making are for education so I can hopefully stop moving all the time

February 23, 2019

34 minutes ago, Monty95 said:

Please if you can find any way to cope with your depression without using antidepressants or other psychiatric drugs, ie. making small positive changes in your life, plan for a future you can get excited about, trying to identify and spend time doing things you enjoy, engaging with loved ones, cognitive behavioural therapy or mindfulness, exercise, healthy eating etc.; many people on this site including myself would give anything to go backwards in time and not make the mistake of becoming dependent on a substance that can have negative consequences down the line for both your physical and mental health. Remember depression is generally self limiting without treatment and is unlikely to persist for months and years without improvement.Try to hang in there and exhaust every technique to make it bearable without resorting to drugging yourself. Recovering from withdrawal or side effects of these drugs, which can actually induce depression and anxiety and decrease your enjoyment of life however can take years or in some cases may not be possible to resolve entirely. Withdrawal induced akathisia, cognitive issues, movement disorders, anhedonia will likely make your depression look like a walk in the park. I'm not at all attempting to minimise the suffering you're going through, I know depression can be extremely debilitating but there are ways to work through it, I promise.

Thank you, and thank everyone on this site for sharing information and support and helping others minimize their pain, thank you

February 23, 2019

2 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

Ok I don't understand these forums, I keep trying to start a new topic and it keeps forcing it into a comment on an old post, wtf? This is frustrating me to no end. This original post has little to do with the current one and is about tapering, so why does it keep getting force onto this old thread?

I understand that this is frustrating as most forums do not work this way. The way that most forum work is not suitable for this subject and the stakes are very high, as well. The wrong advice can really hurt someone. Everything about "you" belongs in one topic here. This is because the Mods (and members who may try to help) need to get an understanding of your situation with WD. You don't realize this now, but everything you post gives us a better understanding of what you are experiencing and how we might help you. We need all of that information in one place. We also need all the comments on your posts in one place. It helps us to see your posts in chronological order next to the posts to you by others. Otherwise, we may not know certain important events and complaints you have about your condition. Someone might give you the wrong advice or lead you down the wrong path. If someone does do that regardless, the Mods can quickly see that that happened and correct it.

I'm going to write another post to you about your general situation, too.

February 23, 2019

You remind me so much of myself. I finally took ADs when I could not see any other way to cope. I am so glad to see that you are very skeptical about these drugs and that a lot more information about the downsides is available to you. It should have been available to all of us over 20 years ago. There were a number of doctors who rang alarm bells in the 1990s, but their voices were drowned out. Since then most of the doctors have come to believe these drugs are working miracles, and that each person needs to experiment with several different ones until they find "the right one." To me, that is insanity.

I believe that switching drugs after becoming dependent on one of them is causing immeasurable harm and that none of them are safe. Your story reinforces that belief. Yes, your doctor started you at a higher dose than she should have, but many people start at a low dose and the doctor continues to increase it until they reach high doses. The changes in behavior and thinking are gradual such that they are not noticed until the person is hooked on the drug. In a way, you are lucky that your doctor started your dose too high. You were able to see the harm right away. You are also very lucky that you found SA and other information about the risks and downsides of these drugs. As you have been on Wellbutrin for only a couple of weeks, I have no doubt you are going to avoid the misery I have endured.

I am often angry and depressed that I spent 15 years on those drugs and that I have been through a horrific WD. The suicidal thoughts during WD are so much more intense and longer lasting than those I felt before I started Celexa in 2000-01. I have only recently found relief from them, and now they are mild enough to be back to the level they were in 2000. I'm finally safe from myself.

So, that's the cautionary tale you can take from SA. Drugs are not the answer. Neither is marijuana. Marijuana is not completely safe -- even the type you can buy legally. In particular, I would not recommend it to you for the reasons you mentioned -- it will make you unmotivated and uninterested in making your life better. It's interesting that this is what ADs do to a lot of people. I think occasional use by people who have full, happy lives might be ok, but as with any drug there are people who react poorly and, of course, there are many people who like it too much.

There is a solution to your sadness and suicidality. There really is. The medicine is changing your diet and light exercise. You have to start very small with these changes to your life. Do not feel overwhelmed. Don't over do it and get discouraged. Take it slow and easy, but the changes will help lift your depression without the risks of ADs.

(Not that ADs actually work, that is. There is a placebo effect, and there is a numbing of the emotions that ADs cause. To the person taking them it may appear that they "work," but to friends and family there are a lot of very unpleasant side effects. These side effects ruin marriages and cause friendships to fall apart. They stress every relationship we have. Essentially, we become different people -- people we would not want to be.)

The poor diet, coffee and alcohol are probably exacerbating your depression. Giving up coffee altogether isn't necessary, but your body is compensating for the caffeine rush and bringing you down. With sugar it's the same thing. All the hormones and neurotransmitters that are sent out to deal with the caffeine and sugar (alcohol is essentially sugar plus a depressant) have a counteracting effect to bring you down again. The constant back and forth wears on your system. The alcohol brings you down further.

For short, if you have depressive thoughts and suicidal thoughts you should avoid alcohol and eat better. Look, I KNOW how hard that sounds!!! You are all ready feeling down and now you have to change your diet?!! All I can say is: think of it as medicine! If you would take a pill or smoke marijuana in the hope that you would feel better would you eat something you don't like? It's far less risky and more likely to help. There are books about how to eat if you feel depressed.

I noticed that you said you don't eat much. Do you know about how low blood sugar affects mood? It's affect is tremendous. If you are skinny, you probably don't eat enough. Please start to think of food as medicine, get a book about depression and diet and eat 6 small, health-ish meals per day. An apple here, a bowl of berries there, a bit of lunch meat another time. Set a timer and eat as if you were taking medicine. Treat yourself, too, but in tiny amounts when it comes to candy or sweets. Ice cream is good because it has fat mixed with sugar. Always have the treat with real food to combine in your stomach and slow down the sugar's release into your bloodstream. Maybe your parents will help you do this?

Start to slowly cut back on coffee. Have half a cup less for a couple of days, then half a cup less and so on. Eventually go to one cup or decaf.

I know this may sound impossible, but isn't it better than suicide? I promise it's better than ADs or benzos.

I haven't figured out if you are a woman or a man, but either way, there are hormones in both that are affected by caffeine, alcohol and drugs. Each person is different, but most women have stronger responses to their hormones than men UNLESS the system has been irritated by caffeine, alcohol, drugs or nicotine.

The absolute best medicine is exercise. Just walk. Nothing more than that.

Again, start very small with all these changes to your life. Do not feel overwhelmed. Take it slow and easy, but the changes will help lift your depression. Please know there is a solution, and you will feel better and have a beautiful life. Someone said that the way you feel is temporary. It is. Episodes of depression do not last. They come and go. If you can get through this episode and change how you eat you can live a much better, happier life.

February 23, 2019

6 hours ago, Rosetta said:

The way that most forum work is not suitable for this subject

Ok that makes sense, thank you.

Thank you for writing all that you did, I really appreciate it thank you.

4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I finally took ADs when I could not see any other way to cope

That's exactly why I started it two weeks ago, I was so close to suicide and was willing to try anything. I spoke to my therapist about it today and he is such an amazing therapist and really is excellent at breaking apart my ***** up beliefs and distorted thoughts, he is great. But he basically told me that he can't advice much about the drugs, only a psychiatrist can. He said they wont fix me but will make it easier to do therapy etc and that you can get off of them, you just need to taper very slowly. He told me that if my brain is so depressed, I should trust and do as psychiatrists say and that it's ultimately my decision and I need to weigh the risks and reward. I feel like my psychiatrist that I will see on Tuesday is going to say "You shouldnt have stopped without discussing it with me, you need to take it for at least a month and if it isn't working then we'll try more" but I don't want to keep taking it until tuesday, I would discuss if we could have met sooner. And I dont want to be a ******* labrat and just experiment with 10 different drugs for a month each. And I am feeling worse again, he will be like "See? Even more proof you need drugs" Maybe I should keep taking it until i see him, I dont know

So man I almost just want to double or triple the dose and accept being a big pharma zombie because I still feel so bad. I am really trying hard but **** I honestly truly can't see myself ever doing or feeling better. I feel like I have never been so low, I have lost my love to live, I can't handle any time alone, I just go insane and feel so terrible and get suicidal again. I dont want to die, but I cant be like this anymore. So I cant do drugs, I cant tell anyone, I cant really afford therapy, I dont have the time or stability to make friends, I am so miserable, how else do I fix this seriously. I don't see a solution or a way I can ever get better. I am trying to do CBT, trying to research and learn and see whats best, I am trying to be honest about my life, I am doing all I can and I can't take this anymore.

My psychiatrist told me "After one episode of depression, theres a 50% chance of another, after having two episodes, theres an 80% chance of another, etc" basically telling me that since this is my second time, that I am basically destined to have them all the time and I need to medicate myself. If I dont medicate myself, how am I going to get out of this if even the stats show that I am broken and doomed.

4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Drugs are not the answer. Neither is marijuana.

I think youre right, I'm going to stay away from until and if I ever get better. Not a good idea to introduce another factor into all of this.

4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

The medicine is changing your diet and light exercise

Ok, I will eat more fruit and vegetable, try to exercise more and take magnesium. But I already am not that unhealthy, so I dont think its going to make a huge difference, especially when all my problems are caused by the way I think and feel.

4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I noticed that you said you don't eat much. Do you know about how low blood sugar affects mood?

You're right I am skinnyish and not muscular because I don't eat much at all but then I will eat one giant meal. Should I eat more sugar to help my blood sugar? I had a blood test done and it's all ok except I'm low in ferratin (iron) probably because I donate blood and dont eat much meat. I can cut down a lot on alcohol, but it will be hard to cut down on coffee, I have on average 2 cups a day.

4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I haven't figured out if you are a woman or a man

I am a man but I dont feel like other men my age.

4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Again, start very small with all these changes to your life. Do not feel overwhelmed. Take it slow and easy, but the changes will help lift your depression. Please know there is a solution, and you will feel better and have a beautiful life. Someone said that the way you feel is temporary. It is. Episodes of depression do not last. They come and go. If you can get through this episode and change how you eat you can live a much better, happier life.

You know, if you were talking about a different depressed person, I would agree with you. But wow, I grew up so isolated and alone, never developped social skills. First major depression age 14/15 and I never got better. I just dealt with the isolation and misery and developped extreme self hatred to deal with it. Only now am I facing everything and I only now realize I am a normal human and am not an evil sociopath. But ****, I have been so lonely for so long, I cannot make friends and I dont know if hitting the gym and eating a celery stick is going to fix this. I am so disabled by this, I kind want it all to be over and be dead or get a lobotomy or something because I cant handle this. I am safe from suicide for now and am very likely to continue to be safe for a couple weeks atleast because I don't have access to my shotgun because I kept it away from myself.

Anyways, thank you!

Edit: Man, I think I am actually feeling more seriously suicidal again and it might have to do with not taking drugs today. How ***** up is that, I need to take a pill everyday or have a desire to end my life. See how ruined I am, wow I want to die so badly

February 24, 2019

Sorry to ramble so much, but I tried to distract myself with TV. I am a bit better, hopefully tomorrow I can go back to not being suicidal. I keep going back and forth

February 24, 2019

What Rosetta wrote about how this forum works is correct. Just to clarify it further, each member has their own Introduction topic which is the place to ask questions about their own situation and journal their progress. This keeps their history in one place. The responses you receive can also help other people, both members and visitors, and getting them responded to in your topic means that their isn't unnecessary duplication of the work of responding.

A member's Introduction topic also ends up becoming a case study for any medical professionals who visit this site:

On 5/15/2011 at 5:22 AM, Altostrata said:

MISSION OF SURVIVINGANTIDEPRESSANTS.ORG

Surviving Antidepressants is a site for peer support, documentation, and education of withdrawal symptoms and withdrawal syndrome caused by psychiatric drugs, specifically antidepressants.

The participants on this site have all experienced or are experiencing difficulty in withdrawal from psychiatric medications. We offer peer support to those who are similarly suffering, drawing from our personal experiences.

(No posting on this site should be construed as medical advice. For medical advice, consult a trusted medical caregiver.)

The personal stories on this site are documentation of an iatrogenic condition -- suffering caused by medical treatment -- that is almost always ignored, misdiagnosed, or denied by the medical establishment. Given the widespread prescription of antidepressants to tens of millions of people worldwide, withdrawal syndrome probably affects hundreds of thousands if not millions -- including newborns and children.

Antidepressant withdrawal syndrome can last weeks, months, or years. It can be distressing, debilitating, or even disabling. It may be adding to an increase in what is termed disabling mental illness.

With our documentation of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, we hope to educate the medical establishment about this problem. Case studies are essential; they are evidence understood by doctors, the psychiatric industry, and government regulatory agencies.

Our hope is, eventually, antidepressants and other psychiatric drugs will be prescribed rarely, and only in cases of extremely severe mental illness after less invasive treatments have been tried.

Please join Surviving Antidepressants in its mission to support, document, and educate about psychiatric drug withdrawal syndrome.

February 24, 2019

5 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

Ok that makes sense, thank you.

Thank you for writing all that you did, I really appreciate it thank you.

That's exactly why I started it two weeks ago, I was so close to suicide and was willing to try anything. I spoke to my therapist about it today and he is such an amazing therapist and really is excellent at breaking apart my ***** up beliefs and distorted thoughts, he is great. But he basically told me that he can't advice much about the drugs, only a psychiatrist can. He said they wont fix me but will make it easier to do therapy etc and that you can get off of them, you just need to taper very slowly. He told me that if my brain is so depressed, I should trust and do as psychiatrists say and that it's ultimately my decision and I need to weigh the risks and reward. I feel like my psychiatrist that I will see on Tuesday is going to say "You shouldnt have stopped without discussing it with me, you need to take it for at least a month and if it isn't working then we'll try more" but I don't want to keep taking it until tuesday, I would discuss if we could have met sooner. And I dont want to be a ******* labrat and just experiment with 10 different drugs for a month each. And I am feeling worse again, he will be like "See? Even more proof you need drugs" Maybe I should keep taking it until i see him, I dont know

So man I almost just want to double or triple the dose and accept being a big pharma zombie because I still feel so bad. I am really trying hard but **** I honestly truly can't see myself ever doing or feeling better. I feel like I have never been so low, I have lost my love to live, I can't handle any time alone, I just go insane and feel so terrible and get suicidal again. I dont want to die, but I cant be like this anymore. So I cant do drugs, I cant tell anyone, I cant really afford therapy, I dont have the time or stability to make friends, I am so miserable, how else do I fix this seriously. I don't see a solution or a way I can ever get better. I am trying to do CBT, trying to research and learn and see whats best, I am trying to be honest about my life, I am doing all I can and I can't take this anymore.

My psychiatrist told me "After one episode of depression, theres a 50% chance of another, after having two episodes, theres an 80% chance of another, etc" basically telling me that since this is my second time, that I am basically destined to have them all the time and I need to medicate myself. If I dont medicate myself, how am I going to get out of this if even the stats show that I am broken and doomed.

I think youre right, I'm going to stay away from until and if I ever get better. Not a good idea to introduce another factor into all of this.

Ok, I will eat more fruit and vegetable, try to exercise more and take magnesium. But I already am not that unhealthy, so I dont think its going to make a huge difference, especially when all my problems are caused by the way I think and feel.

You're right I am skinnyish and not muscular because I don't eat much at all but then I will eat one giant meal. Should I eat more sugar to help my blood sugar? I had a blood test done and it's all ok except I'm low in ferratin (iron) probably because I donate blood and dont eat much meat. I can cut down a lot on alcohol, but it will be hard to cut down on coffee, I have on average 2 cups a day.

I am a man but I dont feel like other men my age.

You know, if you were talking about a different depressed person, I would agree with you. But wow, I grew up so isolated and alone, never developped social skills. First major depression age 14/15 and I never got better. I just dealt with the isolation and misery and developped extreme self hatred to deal with it. Only now am I facing everything and I only now realize I am a normal human and am not an evil sociopath. But ****, I have been so lonely for so long, I cannot make friends and I dont know if hitting the gym and eating a celery stick is going to fix this. I am so disabled by this, I kind want it all to be over and be dead or get a lobotomy or something because I cant handle this. I am safe from suicide for now and am very likely to continue to be safe for a couple weeks atleast because I don't have access to my shotgun because I kept it away from myself.

Anyways, thank you!

Edit: Man, I think I am actually feeling more seriously suicidal again and it might have to do with not taking drugs today. How ***** up is that, I need to take a pill everyday or have a desire to end my life. See how ruined I am, wow I want to die so badly

Hi,

I understand feeling happy may not seem possible at the moment and eating celery and exercising will likely not change your life overnight. However, addressing nutritional deficiencies ie. getting blood work, adjusting your diet and supplementing if necessary to correct this can dramatically improve your mood. I had my first major depression at 18 mainly due to life circumstances, however in hindsight I also stopped eating animal products around this time, stopped exercising and spending time outside and with friends, so it became a negative feedback loop. Later I realised I was chronically iron, B12 and vit D deficient and needed to supplement regularly and improve my diet. This had a dramatic improvement on my mood, particularly on anxiety. A small improvement in your mood, coupled with the empowerment and sense of control over your problems this provides you with will enable further positive changes down the line. Try to think positively, try goal-setting & seeing problems as a series of small challenges rather than being overwhelmed with them in total, manage your expectations and try to see failures as a learning experience. Also, as you have just discontinued Wellbutrin, be aware that withdrawal effects can exacerbate depression and anxiety, even though you were only taking it a short time. eg. people taking drugs recreationally like lsd/ecstasy/ amphetamines typically experience a crash afterwards. Wellbutrin is a stimulant, similar to amphetamines in its mechanism of action. Something similar happened to me when I was prescribed Abilify in 2015, I was only taking it for 2-3 weeks, I decreased the dose and stopped within a month. A week or two later I was extremely irritable, anxious and depressed. I developed hypersensitivity to light and sound and was suicidal, which was totally uncharacteristic for me at the time. I remember really strange mood disturbances & crying over ridiculous abstract things like the concept of entropy. This encouraged me to think I would need to stay on an antidepressant for life (I had continued to take effexor when I stopped the aripiprazole). Over the next six months to a year the depression and sensitivities gradually lifted, my mood stabilised and I was functioning normally. At the time I had no idea this could possibly be due to a drug effect, I thought I was incredibly unstable and anxious and must be losing my mind a bit. If your depression has changed or worsened since discontinuation, please try to remain calm and let your CNS stabilise, try not to get confused and go looking for another drug to fix the problem as this will very likely be detrimental, especially in the long term. I was also chronically, intermittently depressed during my 20's (probably due to a combination of life circumstances, medication and lifestyle factors eg. diet and exercise) A change in my circumstances in my early thirties - removing stressors, gaining some financial independence and control and minimising the influence of some controlling/damaging family relationships resulted in being basically depression free and enjoying life for the last three or four years - you very likely won't feel this way forever and there are ways to make significant positive changes, even if depressive episodes have been a pattern for a long time. The stats your psychiatrist provided you with are taken from an era where many are medicated over the long term. I recommend reading Robert Whittaker's 'Anatomy of an epidemic' for more info on medicated vs unmedicated trajectories of depression.

February 24, 2019

9 hours ago, Monty95 said:

I understand feeling happy may not seem possible at the moment and eating celery and exercising will likely not change your life overnight

I think about what the psych said "After one episode of depression, theres a 50% chance of another, after having two episodes, theres an 80% chance of another, etc". So basically now that I went and had a second one, I have dug my grave and will eternally be depressed forever, people say this is temporary but the stats and doctors say it stays for life for almost everyone and we need to be medicated. Well I don't want to be damaged by medication and I don't want to be depressed forever and those seem like the only options because I am so low in spirit, energy, happiness and hope, I can't fix myself, what other option is left besides death at that point, I am sorry to say it.

I was listening to Jordan Peterson and he was saying that if you have no job, no friends, no romantic relationship, a drug/alcohol addiction, or health issues, if you have three of those then it is nearly impossible to improve and you need antidepressants. I do have atleast 3, if I can just get a job it can be better but I also don't want to get a job and then be alone and isolated again and then possibly ruin my job by being hospitalized or dying.

Even though I don't have access to my guns right now, I could in the future and they are always in my head. It is the only way I would ever do it and I keep thinking about it when problems arise and it makes it harder for me to improve and the thought causes a lot of pain. So if I were to live, I would need to have these totally away, but I will not tell anyone because of the issues it will cause and I also secretly don't want the option taken away from me, though if it were it would almost certainly keep me alive but would not make me any happier.

I feel really selfish for even having these thoughts. Objectively, my life is ok, there's hope etc. But me being who I am, I really don't think I can do this, even if you say "Yes you can!", like I still don't know what to do, I can try to improve diet and stuff but **** I still feel so awful about living. Honestly, if I die, I believe the pain my family will feel will be even worse than the pain I feel and will actually destroy their lives. Right now, my parents are looking forward to retiring in a few years and they still laugh, if I die they will rarely laugh again and the remainder of their lives will be painful. My sisters would have their lives stunted severely and affect their relationships and careers significantly. So I really can't and shouldn't do it. But my brain goes back and forth dozens of times a day between "I can't do that, I like aspects of life" and "I need to do whatever it takes to make this end, my life is mostly misery and I can't take it, I am bad".

9 hours ago, Monty95 said:

Try to think positively, try goal-setting & seeing problems as a series of small challenges rather than being overwhelmed with them in total

Ok, good tip. Like the major thing I need is settling down, having real friendships and a support network and constantly building on a career. I need a job between now and september and then college in september and if I can make it until september, I should be able to make friends, stay busy, learn, feel like I am accomplishing stuff and build towards a career. So I guess the shorter term goals are get a job and not die, also make friends. I have been applying to jobs but even if I get a job, I will be alone a lot with my guns and not safe. Also will be in a semi-remote area with a low population which means I likely will not be able to make friends, especially since I wont be there long.

So I don't know what to do or if I can make it. I also think about about how I don't want to get old, I will likely never be able to afford retirement, I can't spend another 60years alone, the state of this country is getting worse. I just want out but I really can't destroy my family, I wish I was conscripted to war and could just die or get in a car accident and cause far less pain. I also can't imagine how my family could keep going to work with the grief or how they could start to sell my stuff, etc. It's so bullsh*t I was created when my parents don't even really enjoy their own lives, why did they create another one to be neglected and alone his whole life and suffer and who isn't allowed to leave? If I live, it is just for the sake of my family, I will suffer and not have kids so I can end my gene pool and not selfishly bring more people into this.

10 hours ago, Monty95 said:

This encouraged me to think I would need to stay on an antidepressant for life

Yes it's hard because it's difficult to tell what is the drugs and what isn't. And it's also frustrating because doctors will just think any positive feelings are the drugs and any negative feelings mean you need more drugs, it's bullsh*t and it's such an easy way to dismiss your concerns and pain. Though it's only been 2.5 days since stopping a not-too-serious drug and this could all be placebo, I do feel way less anxious and my tinnitus is going away. Before I had way too much uncomfortable physical energy where it was hard to breathe, tense muscles, and now I also just feel less "out of it".

10 hours ago, Monty95 said:

let your CNS stabilise,

CNS?

10 hours ago, Monty95 said:

being basically depression free and enjoying life for the last three or four years

I know this is so pessamistic and defeatist but **** is it really worth all of this pain and struggle just for one day maybe decades from now possibly having a couple good years before I die.

10 hours ago, Monty95 said:

The stats your psychiatrist provided you with are taken from an era where many are medicated over the long term

But does that change the validity of what he said? When I discussed drugs with him and withdrawal, he basically insinuated that getting off drugs is rare but technically possible and that most of patients are or should be on them for life. **** that honestly I'd rather be dead than that.

Again I really appreciate the time you spend helping me. I am listening and I know I am being stubborn, sorry. I am safe for now, I am going to keep trying for now but holy **** I am actually hurting where none of it matters and I just want to die

February 24, 2019

25 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

I think about what the psych said "After one episode of depression, theres a 50% chance of another, after having two episodes, theres an 80% chance of another, etc". So basically now that I went and had a second one, I have dug my grave and will eternally be depressed forever, people say this is temporary but the stats and doctors say it stays for life for almost everyone and we need to be medicated. Well I don't want to be damaged by medication and I don't want to be depressed forever and those seem like the only options because I am so low in spirit, energy, happiness and hope, I can't fix myself, what other option is left besides death at that point, I am sorry to say it.

Your psych, like most, is unaware of the history of depression. Please read:

History We Can’t Overlook Anymore: Details Before the Anti-Depressant Era

Note these facts:

Jonathan Cole, NIMH, 1964: “Depression is, on the whole, one of the psychiatric conditions with the best prognosis for eventual recovery with or without treatment. Most depressions are self-limited.”
Nathan Kline, Journal of the American Medical Association, 1964: “In the treatment of depression, one always has an ally the fact that most depressions terminate in spontaneous remissions. This means that in many cases regardless of what one does the patient eventually will begin to get better.”
Dean Schuyler, head of the depression section at the NIMH, 1974: Most depressive episodes “will run their course and terminate with virtually complete recovery without specific intervention.”

So why is depression now chronic when before it resolved on its own? Robert Whitaker explains:

Now Antidepressant-Induced Chronic Depression Has a Name: Tardive Dysphoria

The drugs cause damage to the brain and the nervous system which creates this recurrent illness.

Your exposure to these drugs was so limited, you aren't going to have to go through this as long as you stay away from these drugs.

35 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

I was listening to Jordan Peterson and he was saying that if you have no job, no friends, no romantic relationship, a drug/alcohol addiction, or health issues, if you have three of those then it is nearly impossible to improve and you need antidepressants. I do have atleast 3, if I can just get a job it can be better but I also don't want to get a job and then be alone and isolated again and then possibly ruin my job by being hospitalized or dying.

Peterson says that anyone can need antidepressants:

Jordan Peterson's opinion on Antidepressants video (3.5 minutes)

He advocates these drugs because he views depression as a medical condition. He foolishly compares it to needing insulin to treat diabetes. This has been disproven.

Again, The Chemical Imbalance is a Myth - Stop the Lies, Please

Robert Whitaker discusses the chemical imbalance theory of “mental illness” and our society’s impulse to believe in medication as a “magic bullet” cure.

Peterson is like most psychologists - he's not trained to treat his patients for issues like trauma so he sends them to a psychiatrist to get drugged.

If you want to listen to a psychologist that makes sense, try this one by therapist Daniel Mackler:

Daniel Mackler - Can We Resolve All of Our Traumas? video (10.5)

On 2/23/2019 at 11:04 AM, ascfgdxz said:

. Also, I move a lot because of school mainly and work, the next moves I am making are for education so I can hopefully stop moving all the time

As you've already found out, you have a whole group of people who have befriended you online and are giving you advice and support. There's no reason to think your life is going to be lived in isolation. As you finish your education and settle down into one location, you're going to find friends and get involved in work and volunteer activities or whatever it is that allows you to create the kind of environment you wish to live in. That's the point of Daniel Mackler's video.

Your depression is trying to tell you something - that you want more out of life than you've experienced so far. The goal then is to find your passion, not your drug. Perhaps talk to a career coach at a college. Find your passion. As you heal from this depression, you'll find a path that leads to a life of purpose.

Again, if you avoid the drugs, you won't have the recurring depression that your doctor and others are talking about. Read Robert Whitaker's book I mentioned earlier. Read the Journals section of this website. Knowledge is power and as others have said, most of us here wish we'd had this knowledge and power when we were as young as you.

47 minutes ago, ascfgdxz said:

Yes it's hard because it's difficult to tell what is the drugs and what isn't. And it's also frustrating because doctors will just think any positive feelings are the drugs and any negative feelings mean you need more drugs, it's bullsh*t and it's such an easy way to dismiss your concerns and pain. Though it's only been 2.5 days since stopping a not-too-serious drug and this could all be placebo, I do feel way less anxious and my tinnitus is going away. Before I had way too much uncomfortable physical energy where it was hard to breathe, tense muscles, and now I also just feel less "out of it".

This is good to read, ascfgdxz. I'm glad you're feeling better after coming off the antidepressant.

Please work on your diet. Rosetta mentioned low blood sugar and she is spot on - low blood sugar can cause fatigue, hopelessness, anxiety, etc. Eating several high protein, low sugar meals and snacks throughout the day can keep your blood sugar steady. Try eating a small meal or snack every 3 - 4 hours throughout the day and see if you feel more energized and less lost in your thoughts. Also make sure you're drinking plenty of water and avoiding soft drinks. As sensitive as you are to these drugs, you may be just as sensitive to sugar and to processed foods, so eliminate them and see how you feel.

Try this for a few days and see how you feel. Better yet, try it for a month and really give your mind/body time to adjust to a cleaner way of eating. Here is some basic information on this kind of diet and you can find a lot more by googling "low blood sugar diet" or "hypoglycemia diet". Please note you don't have to be diagnosed with any blood sugar problem to benefit from this diet - this is healthy for everyone.

Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) diet

Suggested meal plan - hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) diet

I know addressing diet seems ridiculous when you're dealing with the type of overwhelming feelings you are having, but please trust us on this. Diet is VERY important and well worth spending a month working with to see if you benefit.

February 25, 2019

10 hours ago, Shep said:

Your psych, like most, is unaware of the history of depression. Please read:

I also was not aware until I read that great link, thank you. I am so sad at how tragic it is that we are hurting so many people and making things worse, why do we keep doing it? This is awful

10 hours ago, Shep said:

Your exposure to these drugs was so limited, you aren't going to have to go through this as long as you stay away from these drugs.

Yes, glad I found this site. I do hate that I may come across as some misguided stubborn conspiracy theorist for not wanting these drugs and not trusting doctors in this case. Like what kind of idiot thinks they are smarter than their doctor right? (I don't, I am just saying that that is what others may think)

10 hours ago, Shep said:

because he views depression as a medical condition.

Can't depression actually be a medical condition for some people? As much as the "Chemical imbalance" thing is incorrect, can it not be correct for some people and some people actually need some medication?

10 hours ago, Shep said:

you have a whole group of people who have befriended you online and are giving you advice and support

Honestly, I think it can be hard to see how real someone is and how real your impact is, but I am a real person and you guys and other people online are helping me so much and I don't think I would still be alive otherwise, so thank you, it is so helpful. I try hard to help people in any way I can in my own life. I kind of wish there was a chat room or something for more immediate and casual chat, has that ever been something you've considered?

10 hours ago, Shep said:

you're going to find friends

This is the hard part. I have low self esteem and I grew up very isolated and never socialized much. So I am don't have many social skills. I am not bad socially, I don't stand out, I can talk and get by. But I have almost no ability to be emotive, form deep connections with people etc. It's so ingrained I don't know how or if I can ever change it, and having connection with other humans is the thing I need so badly. It doesn't help that I am getting older when everyone else already has their friends, I will still need to spend minimum 3 more years moving all the time and in rural areas. So I will try but it seems like I will have 3 more ******* years of isolation.

10 hours ago, Shep said:

most of us here wish we'd had this knowledge and power when we were as young as you

Yes I am very thankful, thank you guys and thank you internet. Were most of you medicated young? By choice or forcefully?

10 hours ago, Shep said:

I'm glad you're feeling better after coming off the antidepressant

Yeah you know, I asked my psych after researching wellbutrin and before starting it "If this is to give energy to unenergized people, why am I taking it? I am very productive and not low in energy, it's not like I struggle to get out of bed or anything" and he was like "Oh I thought you had low energy, low mood" (It's like he hasn't listened to me at all because I clearly never said that was my issue) "It is still a great medication because it has no side effects for weight and sex drive, it's either that or something that affects sex drive, what would you like?". It's like he didn't care and just wanted me to accept it or else, and when I asked about long term addiction/withdrawal, he nearly laughed because "Wellbutrin is just a little drug that we usually give just as a supplement to an SSRI, so no you won't have any issues stopping this drug except for the fact that you may not want to if you feel perfectly better after" (Not exact words). It really just made me way more anxious, which never was much of big problem for me before, now I feel more relaxed, even if I don't feel less depressed. Though the drug did seem to really help my low sex drive. I have a HUGE headache I think from the drug and occasionally I feel physically heavy in my head (As odd as that sounds), but hopefully that goes away, I already feel less depersonalized, could be placebo though.

Ok, so from what you're all saying, I need to fix diet. Basically, would this be successfully achieved by the following. Magnesium and Vitamin D every day, less coffee (considering 1 per day, occasionally max 2), almost no booze, very little carbs/sugar, more protein/fruit/veggies, spread the food out over smaller/more frequent meals, more water and do some exercise. Does that cover it mostly? (I will read your diet links later when I have a chance)

10 hours ago, Shep said:

but please trust us on this. Diet is VERY important

Ok, I am trusting you on this Thank you.

I know my posts are very long, I am sorry but I have a bit more questions/comments. I had a great day today because I spent it with family playing board games which was great. We also went to the humane society and I really wish my lifestyle would allow for a dog because I think it would do unbelievable good for me, make me have responsibilities, be less lonely, get outside more, less suicidal. I really really can't kill myself because it would be unspeakably horrible to my family, so as much as I don't value or want living right now, I need to and I hope to not be so overwhelmed that I shoot myself. My question is, what has happened in my brain to make me sink so low like never before where my perspective is so pessimistic and sick of it all? Important question is will I have to be fighting off absolute misery and suicidal thoughts every day for the rest of my life? It is really hard and I can't imagine doing it for 60 more years, how do I know I can ever have a time where existing is peaceful, not a struggle and actually enjoyable. Do I just change diet and give it time and that's basically it?

Thanks again

February 25, 2019

7 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

Yes, glad I found this site. I do hate that I may come across as some misguided stubborn conspiracy theorist for not wanting these drugs and not trusting doctors in this case. Like what kind of idiot thinks they are smarter than their doctor right? (I don't, I am just saying that that is what others may think)

I think what's going on with opioids is opening up a much-needed conversation about how much we really should be listening to doctors. Most people are now aware that doctors prescribe dangerous drugs that are addictive, while they downplay the risks to their patients.

A lot of what doctors know is coming from medical journal articles that are being ghost-written by the pharmaceutical industry. Also, the continuing education courses for doctors comes from the pharmaceutical companies.

You may not know as much about anatomy and chemistry as doctors, but you have a lot more insight and curiosity then they do - you felt bad on Zoloft and instead of blindly listening to your doctor, you did your research and are open to learning more about the issue.

Like I wrote, the opioid issue (which isn't an opioid epidemic, so much as a polypharmacy epidemic) has drawn a lot of attention to a growing problem. You may be interested in a new documentary about this available for free on YouTube:

DRUG$: The Price We Pay - Documentary

8 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

Can't depression actually be a medical condition for some people? As much as the "Chemical imbalance" thing is incorrect, can it not be correct for some people and some people actually need some medication?

What are these drugs correcting? We can't measure serotonin. Most of the benefit of the antidepressant is found in the placebo effect. This isn't a conspiracy theory - it's been on mainstream media, including 60 Minutes:

Treating Depression: Is there a placebo effect? video (14 minutes)

Keep in mind that historically, depression resolves on itself. So it's unlikely that someone who has been on an antidepressant for 2, 3, or more years is benefiting solely from this placebo affect, but because the depression resolved on its own. But now they've got another problem - they're now dependent on the drug and if and when they do decide to come off, they will get withdrawal symptoms that can be conflated with a recurrence of the pre-existing depression. So you can see how easily tens of millions of people have gotten trapped on these drugs and view them as beneficial (that is, until they are able to connect their current symptoms with the concept "your drug may be your problem").

There are medical issues that can be misdiagnosed as depression, such as low vitamin B12 and D, which would be medical. If you mask that with an antidepressant, you likely are going to keep being sick.

But a lot of people are simply lonely, unemployed, alienated from their communities, etc. A brilliant book on this by investigative journalist Johann Hari:

Lost Connections - Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression – and the Unexpected Solutions

A brief talk by Hari:

Johann Hari: The Antidote for Loneliness video (4 minutes)

8 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

Ok, so from what you're all saying, I need to fix diet. Basically, would this be successfully achieved by the following. Magnesium and Vitamin D every day, less coffee (considering 1 per day, occasionally max 2), almost no booze, very little carbs/sugar, more protein/fruit/veggies, spread the food out over smaller/more frequent meals, more water and do some exercise. Does that cover it mostly? (I will read your diet links later when I have a chance)

This is excellent, ascfgdxz.

8 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

I know my posts are very long, I am sorry but I have a bit more questions/comments. I had a great day today because I spent it with family playing board games which was great. We also went to the humane society and I really wish my lifestyle would allow for a dog because I think it would do unbelievable good for me, make me have responsibilities, be less lonely, get outside more, less suicidal. I really really can't kill myself because it would be unspeakably horrible to my family, so as much as I don't value or want living right now, I need to and I hope to not be so overwhelmed that I shoot myself. My question is, what has happened in my brain to make me sink so low like never before where my perspective is so pessimistic and sick of it all? Important question is will I have to be fighting off absolute misery and suicidal thoughts every day for the rest of my life? It is really hard and I can't imagine doing it for 60 more years, how do I know I can ever have a time where existing is peaceful, not a struggle and actually enjoyable. Do I just change diet and give it time and that's basically it?

It sounds like you've already found a great anecdote for depression - spending quality time with your family. Well done.

Are you able to volunteer at the humane society? That would be an excellent way of spending time with animals, plus it would distract you from your own problems and give meaning to your life. Nothing is more fulfilling then helping a person or an animal. And there are humane societies and animal shelters everywhere, so wherever you move to next, you're likely to have a shelter in your area. Most shelters also have fundraising groups that do various types of fundraising activities that would allow you to get to know other people and make some friends.

Again, depression is self-limiting, so you won't have this feeling for 60 more years. You will learn from it, make the necessary dietary changes, work on finding your tribe of people that will become your close friends, etc. Yes, it make take time as you are still moving around for your education, but I don't know anyone in their 60s who still has the angst they had in their twenties.

Some non-drug coping skills to help with these feelings:

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

Neuro-emotion

TedTalk - How to Make Stress Your Friend video (13 minutes)

February 25, 2019

Thanks for linking that documentary, I will watch when I have a chance. I wonder what the solution is to pharma negatively influencing healthcare

1 hour ago, Shep said:

What are these drugs correcting? We can't measure serotonin. Most of the benefit of the antidepressant is found in the placebo effect. This isn't a conspiracy theory - it's been on mainstream media, including 60 Minutes:

Ok, I will admit I need to read more and am uneducated. But have they not measured seratonin in anyone ever to prove some people are biologically too low in it? When I spoke to my doctor about it, she said that I can't get tested for it unless they do brain surgery which isn't an option. So when I asked how you know that my brain is chemically imbalanced, it was just because I fit the DSM criteria. When I asked how it may be placebo, she said it went through double blind tests and has been proven to have real effect on people on not be placebo. I don't know if this is true, but I feel like the real effects are just real negative symptoms, not a curing of a chemical imbalance. I am kind of angry that the "help" that's available wants to lie and damage my brain forever.

1 hour ago, Shep said:

such as low vitamin B12 and D,

So I should add B12 to my diet? What does it do? Also, I remember reading once that the Vitamin D pills are ineffective at addressing deficiencies, but I can't find it now, so that my be wrong. I have a recent blood test that may help me figure out areas to address.

1 hour ago, Shep said:

But a lot of people are simply lonely, unemployed, alienated from their communities

I totally agree. I think the internet is one of the most incredible inventions ever, but unfortunately is has also ripped the first world apart. Kids don't play outside, it's so hard to make friends, no one talks in real life, we are all alone. Being social creatures, I think it is having such a horrible impact on us that maybe the leading factor in depression/loneliness. I wonder if it will improve.

1 hour ago, Shep said:

You may not know as much about anatomy and chemistry as doctors, but you have a lot more insight and curiosity then they do

Thank you for the compliment. Curiousity is one of my best traits!

1 hour ago, Shep said:

great anecdote for depression - spending quality time with your family.

Exactly, I come across as a loner but I really enjoy and want social interaction, I forget all my problems when enjoying time with others and I love talking to people. If I can keep busy and have people to talk to, I will be much better. But I am not settled, maybe moving soon for work and stuff so it's hard to actually meet people right now but my family is helping a lot.

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Are you able to volunteer at the humane society?

I totally agree that would be a great idea. The problem is where I am now has one and where I would be moving to, the nearest one is 1.5hours away. Humane society usually wants regular and decent commitment, not maybe 1-4 weeks, so I don't want to short change them like that, though I wish I could. I can try to find other volunteer stuff though in the new town.

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Again, depression is self-limiting, so you won't have this feeling for 60 more years. You will learn from it, make the necessary dietary changes, work on finding your tribe of people that will become your close friends, etc. Yes, it make take time as you are still moving around for your education, but I don't know anyone in their 60s who still has the angst they had in their twenties.

Ok thank you for this. I worry because looking back, I have been really lonely, low in self esteem and isolated honestly since I was atleast 4 years old, that's why I worry about this trend continuing and not just being a temporary thing. Ok thanks again for being here for me, helping me a lot, and you provided a lot of great links I will check out.

February 25, 2019

22 hours ago, ascfgdxz said:

I think about what the psych said "After one episode of depression, theres a 50% chance of another, after having two episodes, theres an 80% chance of another, etc". So basically now that I went and had a second one, I have dug my grave and will eternally be depressed forever, people say this is temporary but the stats and doctors say it stays for life for almost everyone and we need to be medicated. Well I don't want to be damaged by medication and I don't want to be depressed forever and those seem like the only options because I am so low in spirit, energy, happiness and hope, I can't fix myself, what other option is left besides death at that point, I am sorry to say it.

I was listening to Jordan Peterson and he was saying that if you have no job, no friends, no romantic relationship, a drug/alcohol addiction, or health issues, if you have three of those then it is nearly impossible to improve and you need antidepressants. I do have atleast 3, if I can just get a job it can be better but I also don't want to get a job and then be alone and isolated again and then possibly ruin my job by being hospitalized or dying.

Even though I don't have access to my guns right now, I could in the future and they are always in my head. It is the only way I would ever do it and I keep thinking about it when problems arise and it makes it harder for me to improve and the thought causes a lot of pain. So if I were to live, I would need to have these totally away, but I will not tell anyone because of the issues it will cause and I also secretly don't want the option taken away from me, though if it were it would almost certainly keep me alive but would not make me any happier.

I feel really selfish for even having these thoughts. Objectively, my life is ok, there's hope etc. But me being who I am, I really don't think I can do this, even if you say "Yes you can!", like I still don't know what to do, I can try to improve diet and stuff but **** I still feel so awful about living. Honestly, if I die, I believe the pain my family will feel will be even worse than the pain I feel and will actually destroy their lives. Right now, my parents are looking forward to retiring in a few years and they still laugh, if I die they will rarely laugh again and the remainder of their lives will be painful. My sisters would have their lives stunted severely and affect their relationships and careers significantly. So I really can't and shouldn't do it. But my brain goes back and forth dozens of times a day between "I can't do that, I like aspects of life" and "I need to do whatever it takes to make this end, my life is mostly misery and I can't take it, I am bad".

Ok, good tip. Like the major thing I need is settling down, having real friendships and a support network and constantly building on a career. I need a job between now and september and then college in september and if I can make it until september, I should be able to make friends, stay busy, learn, feel like I am accomplishing stuff and build towards a career. So I guess the shorter term goals are get a job and not die, also make friends. I have been applying to jobs but even if I get a job, I will be alone a lot with my guns and not safe. Also will be in a semi-remote area with a low population which means I likely will not be able to make friends, especially since I wont be there long.

So I don't know what to do or if I can make it. I also think about about how I don't want to get old, I will likely never be able to afford retirement, I can't spend another 60years alone, the state of this country is getting worse. I just want out but I really can't destroy my family, I wish I was conscripted to war and could just die or get in a car accident and cause far less pain. I also can't imagine how my family could keep going to work with the grief or how they could start to sell my stuff, etc. It's so bullsh*t I was created when my parents don't even really enjoy their own lives, why did they create another one to be neglected and alone his whole life and suffer and who isn't allowed to leave? If I live, it is just for the sake of my family, I will suffer and not have kids so I can end my gene pool and not selfishly bring more people into this.

Yes it's hard because it's difficult to tell what is the drugs and what isn't. And it's also frustrating because doctors will just think any positive feelings are the drugs and any negative feelings mean you need more drugs, it's bullsh*t and it's such an easy way to dismiss your concerns and pain. Though it's only been 2.5 days since stopping a not-too-serious drug and this could all be placebo, I do feel way less anxious and my tinnitus is going away. Before I had way too much uncomfortable physical energy where it was hard to breathe, tense muscles, and now I also just feel less "out of it".

CNS?

I know this is so pessamistic and defeatist but **** is it really worth all of this pain and struggle just for one day maybe decades from now possibly having a couple good years before I die.

But does that change the validity of what he said? When I discussed drugs with him and withdrawal, he basically insinuated that getting off drugs is rare but technically possible and that most of patients are or should be on them for life. **** that honestly I'd rather be dead than that.

Again I really appreciate the time you spend helping me. I am listening and I know I am being stubborn, sorry. I am safe for now, I am going to keep trying for now but holy **** I am actually hurting where none of it matters and I just want to die

Jordan Peterson takes antidepressants himself, he also has an all beef diet so perhaps you shouldn't take his word as gospel. I actually think he seems to have some signs of subtle cognitive decline over the years and I wonder whether this might be due in part to antidepressant use and not simply ageing. Of course an arbitrary checklist to determine who is in 'need' of a neurotoxin is based on an assumption ie. that it will 'work' to improve your mood and that the benefits outweigh the risks. The weight of evidence suggests that assumption is a falsehood. I can definitely attest that the risks of long term use are unacceptably high. Some people actually have a a toxic adverse reaction to one dose, with lasting withdrawal implications, its rare but you are lucky to have escaped unscathed thus far.

It sounds as though you love your family a lot and don't want to hurt them. Think about the time you have left to spend with them and the potential joy you can experience as a result of your relationships with them. Work on the relationship, value them and prioritise spending time with them, life is short and loved ones make it worthwhile, even though these relationships may not always be problem free.

Try to set some medium term goals as you suggest eg get a job and also very small daily goals to allow you to develop a sense of discipline and accomplishment eg. work on a cv for an hour, call a past employer to organise a reference etc. Try to avoid catastrophic thinking eg. you'll never afford retirement. You don't know that and there are plenty of things you can do in the meantime to try to ensure that isn't the case. Cross that bridge when you come to it, it does you no good to dwell on negatives. CBT could be helpful with this.

CNS= Central nervous system

I thought you might say that re is it worth all this pain and suffering to have a few good years in your thirties. When I was your age I thought I would rather die than get to thirty. Like it literally did not seem possible I would get to that age. You will and you will very probably not be depressed throughout your twenties. I was medicated throughout my twenties and it didn't help me, it seems to numb people and can decrease your capacity for extreme positive and negative emotions so everything feels a bit lacklustre and pointless. I was also pretty disabled by some medical conditions I'm pretty sure were due to the antidepressants.

There are steps you can take to address your depression, I think it is probably easier to do this when your thinking is clear and you are not less engaged as a result of the numbing effects of a drug. I understand you're hurting at the moment and I'm sorry, please be safe and know that this will not last forever - the unmedicated trajectory of depression usually resolved within several months and didn't reappear for years, so don't be depressed by the stats your psychiatrist gave you.

February 25, 2019

HI A from reading your posts you seem very conflicted .

First off I agree with monty95 about Jordan Peterson ,its very dangerous listing to this man when we are very vulnerable ,please stop listening to him .I used to listen to him before he became famous but he's like anyone, he is out to make money ."mental illness" goes back a few generations in he's family so he's scared himself .

Im a huge fan of carl young myself ,who Jordan Peterson derives a lot of he's understanding of the human mind from but carl young would not be as blunt and down right over the top with such statements.

I can see a certain part of your brain is seeking out all the negative [anxiety brain maybe].be aware of this and keep the nicer things flowing trough your mind.

You are ridiculously still so young ,you need to me aware of this fact and huge advantage .

Stop putting so much pressure on yourself and try and relax with life ,always keep busy and you will find your way .I think your already too worried about these drugs to care freely take them.

.I was a complete dope myself to take them and they made me a dope also .you'll learn nothing about who you are on these drugs ,itl just wrap you up in a bubble that will not serve you in the long run.

keep your mind fresh to learn all new things .

do a nutrition course if you can or just read books about it .do a course even in mindfulness and understanding the mind.

.the modern mental health system is not set up for long term "health", it just manages on side affect with another med and so on .

At the end of the day ,the choice comes down to you but we cant be one way and the other at the same time .

Find a compassionate therapist that wants to safely explore your childhood experiences and unravel them with you .

we have feelings and emotions for a reason .

Take care on your journey .

February 25, 2019

7 hours ago, Monty95 said:

Think about the time you have left to spend with them and the potential joy you can experience as a result of your relationships with them

You're totally right but wow thinking about this gives me anxiety, thinking about life without them, feeling like I have not and never will appreciate them enough or do enough for them.

7 hours ago, Monty95 said:

Cross that bridge when you come to it, it does you no good to dwell on negatives. CBT could be helpful with this.

Good thinking, all this CBT is new to me and I hope I can get much better at it but already it is helping me SO much. It's like a superpower, I am in control of how I feel, what I think, no one can cause me to feel anything unless I decide to basically, and it helps me make good choices in how I react and helps me see the world the way it is instead of cognitive distortions. But still struggle a lot and there are a lot of cognitive mistakes I make without realizing it.

7 hours ago, Monty95 said:

When I was your age I thought I would rather die than get to thirty

Yeah really, I feel like I have so many issues to overcome and I am unstable and not sure if I can do it. I don't know how I can live another 60 or 70 years without being alone and miserable most of the time. I am more hopeful now than before, but **** I still feel so low at times throughout the day.

7 hours ago, Monty95 said:

I was medicated throughout my twenties and it didn't help me

I am so sorry, that is terrible, I really wish this didn't happen to you, why do we keep doing this to people?

7 hours ago, Monty95 said:

and you are not less engaged as a result of the numbing effects of a drug

I don't think wellbutrin is a very numbing drug, but either way it's been three days and I am probably fully off it by now.

7 hours ago, Monty95 said:

I understand you're hurting at the moment and I'm sorry, please be safe and know that this will not last forever

I am trusting you guys on this, that I will feel better eventually. I hate just trying to avoid immense pain all day, I can't do that my whole life. I will try to be safe, I am sorry I am being so needy and selfish on these forums, but you are all helping a lot and if I ever get better I want to help people in return.

3 hours ago, powerback said:

Jordan Peterson ,its very dangerous listing to this man when we are very vulnerable

Ok, good tip. I wonder if you guys mainly first heard of him because of antidepressants or not.

3 hours ago, powerback said:

You are ridiculously still so young ,you need to me aware of this fact and huge advantage .

Yes I am very fortunate for this and aware of it. In which particular ways do you advise taking advantage of this?

Great advice powerback, especially about meds etc. In terms of improving, all I am doing right now is diet/fitness and trying CBT, anything else? I am still considering whether smoking CBD would be a good idea or not, probably not.

On 2/23/2019 at 9:18 AM, Shep said:

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

Regarding vitamins and stuff, I bought Vitamin D, Vitamin B12, and Magnesium Citrate today. Your link says to take 25mg of Magnesium Citrate but the smallest I could find were 150mg, is that too high to take? The lady at the pharmacy said Magnesium Glycinate would be better for me to take and that she has never heard of less than 100mg, so do you think 150mg a day is ok? 1000ui of Vitamin D3 per day is enough or should I double that? (Canada, cold and dark). Is one tablet of Vit B12 (1000mcg) per day good enough? Is there anything else that I really should take? Thanks

Overall, I think I am slightly better but it's hard to tell, I could go back to being actively suicidal tomorrow, I hope not. I know I am whining at this point and no one can do anything for me, but wow I am in pain, why would we have this ability to be depressed evolutionary speaking? I feel like my whole life is on hold until I can get a job and I don't have one and it's causing me panic. Also so worried I will be alone for a long time. Anyways thanks again! You guys are amazing

February 25, 2019

Yeah, I frankly don't listen to Peterson on much at all really. And anyone who says this:

On 2/24/2019 at 10:09 AM, ascfgdxz said:

if you have no job, no friends, no romantic relationship, a drug/alcohol addiction, or health issues, if you have three of those then it is nearly impossible to improve and you need antidepressants. I do have atleast 3, if I can just get a job it can be better but I also don't want to get a job and then be alone and isolated again and then possibly ruin my job by being hospitalized or dying.

is making crude & sweeping generalizations. Before AD's I had health issues, no relationship, periods of time with little social contact and yet found many ways to keep myself happy. So yeah you can tell I disagree (partially informed by personal experience, I'll admit) with Peterson, for one, that romantic love is necessary -- I won't lie, it lights up the world in ways you've never felt before. But hinging your happiness on it does not work. I also am not sympathetic to the way he displaces/outsources blame for an individual's behavior on their inability to find a partner. But that's a bit of a digression (and perhaps I have misread him). Sure it's an important factor of the equation, but I personally think he gives it too much attention.

Instead, I think it will be helpful to come up with your own list. You know yourself the best, you know what your body and mind need. Perhaps some of those criteria line up with Peterson's, perhaps they won't. You've said you need to find a job, and I think that's a reasonable goal to chase! Daily purpose and financial security (to an extent) is unfortunately pretty indicative of wellbeing. I am right there with you -- graduating college this semester and immensely stressed about keeping myself alive for however long my nervous system continues to be destabilized.

Also don't count out the small things; your criteria might also include: time in the sun, walks through a forest, good food, concerts, movies, etc. Don't worry, I'm not trying to be one of those bogus people who will say ~time outside will completely cure your depression~ but eh, it could do something. Also, as people have mentioned above, depression isn't always a long-term thing. SSRI's were initially meant for short-term use to help people through crises, but somehow it became standard to stay on. Oh, and another anecdote from personal experience -- I had OCD with some severe flareups (also some depression, but OCD was worse for me) once in a while and was told that I needed medication for life. Well, I cold turkeyed off of Prozac more than two years ago (extremely bad idea of course) but have yet to fall into an OCD spiral. It was clear that my OCD was flaring up for just a couple years, and was bound to calm down without the intervention of AD's.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you some hope. And hope I didn't rant too much. You'll get through this man!

February 25, 2019

17 minutes ago, bheb said:

Anyway, I just wanted to give you some hope. And hope I didn't rant too much. You'll get through this man!

Thank you for your comment. I was feeling good today and I was trying to fight off bad feelings but I failed and I am so defeated. I feel so guilty because I am annoyed when loved ones are talking to me too much, I feel like a horrible person. And then I think about how I might not get a job for a month and am going to feel awful for a month, and even like the romantic relationship you are talking about, I will never have that, I am way too ***** up, let alone even friends. Tonight I have fallen back into despair and I don't want to take a lorazepram but I do want to die. Man, when I am like this, I am in so much pain, none of it matters and I would die now if I could, I can't think clearly to fix things. I can't keep feeling like this every night, it also prevents me applying to more jobs. I really shouldn't kill myself but **** I can't take this, help, why is my brain so ***** up.

Anyways, sorry, yes thank you for your story and some of the hope it brought. I agree with your points on Jordan Peterson. Sorry, I can't think right now, I just want to die

ascfgdxz: took my first ever pill today. Should I stop? Would love help, thanks

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