saxman101: intro

[saxman101]

Thanks Alto, Will do. 

 

Can I ask what the plan is for the Benzo? I'm really anxious about the daily clonazepam because I've been taking them for about 4 weeks now and that seems to be the time that dependency might start and benzo withdrawal does not seem like a good thing at all  

[Altostrata]

Benzo withdrawal is not good. We're going to assume you're dependent, pleasant surprise if you're not. That may be the last thing you go off.

 

Did you start clonazepam and trazodone at the same time?

 

When do you get back from vacation?

[saxman101]

Yes, I started the Clonazepam and Trazodone at the same time 12/12/18. 

 

Sorry for any sort of contradicting opinion, please understand that I'm in a very scared place at the moment...

 

I'm extremely anxious about the Benzo and think perhaps that it might be nice to try to eliminate it before I develop dependence (If I havnt already). Because from what I read Benzo withdrawal is much much worse than coming off of buproprion. If I had been on the benzo for years I'd agree completely, but at the moment I have this lingering hope that I might be able to get off of it a bit easier if it's done sooner rather than later? 

 

Again, sorry to post this. 

 

Please let me know. 

 

Saxman. 

 

 

 

 

[saxman101]

01/06/19 

 

9am - woke, took (75mg boproprion) (150 hcl cut in half) with banana and small candy bar. Upset stomach. Went back to bed. 

1pm - woke up. 

2pm meal and green tea - little appetite 

2:30 - smoke 

3pm : 37.5mg bupropion, banana 

3:10pm: Walk - felt better during walk. 

4pm- drove to store. ruminating thoughts. Tried hard to “break the cycle” as they say. 

5pm - read, good that I can read. 

5:30 - Cold day. Tremors again. Hot shower. Tremors better. 

6pm - phone call with client. 

7pm - worked on CBT homework from therapist 

8pm - dinner no appetite but ate ok. 

9pm - read a book 

10pm - upset stomach 

11pm - .5mg clonazepam 50g trazodone. 

2am - fell asleep. slept ok. 

 

 

 

Positives today: no body aches or brain zaps. Could read and work. 

[saxman101]

Also I get back 1/10/19

[saxman101]

- 01/07/19

 

9am - woke, took (75mg buproprion) (150 HCL cut in half) with banana and small candy bar. Went back to bed. Slight brain zaps during sleep. 

12 - Woke up. Weird sensations in body. like the tremors and the cold, seems that gag reflex is way lower. Dry heaving after brushing teeth. 

2pm - Smoke (switched to e-cigarettes)

3pm - Meal, oatmeal. 37.5mg buproprion. 

3:30 - upset stomach is better today. 

4pm - drove to store 

5pm - scenic drive, slight inner restlessness. Had a smoke. 

6pm - Bath with Epsom salts. Feel tired, but restlessness seems to have eased a bit. 

7pm -  TV episode. Feel a bit better. 

9pm - Dinner. Fish. Little appetite. (Bit of an upset stomach throughout the day, although a little better than usual). Slight headache. 

10pm - CBT exercises and meditation. Chamomile tea. Feel really calm and peaceful. Feeling calmer and more balanced. 

12am - .5mg Clonazepam 50g trazodone, 1.5mg melatonin - feel a bit better, as always in the evenings even before taking these. 

12:30am - My appetite returns! only happened once before so far. Did'nt pig out, finished the dinner I didnt eat and a candy bar.  

1am: Read - Read 200 pages, like I used to before all this. Feel nice and calm!!! What a nice feeling. No computer monitors before bed.

2:30am - went to bed slept ok. 

 

 

Positives today: Body aches better, nausea slightly better (overall), tremors better.1st half was restless, hard to sit still, but gradually things became much better! Thankful for this day. 

[Altostrata]

Please hold on the Wellbutrin taper, your nervous system needs to settle down from the reductions.

 

You had some withdrawal symptoms but now they're settling down.

 

Please do not worry about clonazepam. You probably will be tapering it, but you may not have a lot of trouble going off.

[saxman101]

understood. thanks. 

[Carmie]

Hi saxman, 

 

I’m so sorry you’re in a very scared place at the moment. This journey really is the hardest thing we will go through. 

 

Just wanted to say I know this is scary, but we will get there in the end. We just need to take a day at a time, and even a minute at a time. We can do this!

 

Sending hugs your way🤗

 

 

[saxman101]

01/08/19

 

9am - woke, took (75mg boproprion) (150 hcl cut in half) with banana and small candy bar. Went back to bed.

12 - Woke up. Brush teeth. Again, think I have to do this rly carefully. Triggers naseua easily. Threw up. 

2pm - Smoke (e cig) 

2:30pm - meal. Oatmeal and tea. Appetite a bit better today. 

3pm - drive - took buproprion 37.5mg 

4pm - film. Felt ok 

7pm dinner. Little appetite, but ate ok. 

9pm - drive 

11pm - cbt workbooks

12 - .5mg clonazepam, 50mg trazodone 

12:30pm - read 

2am - fell asleep, slept ok. Woke up a few times but right back to bed. 

[saxman101]

Hey @Carmie

 

Thanks so much for stopping by and for the hugs. Just in a moment now where I'm trying to figure out the next steps and there's a ton of uncertainty  . I understand that relatively speaking i'm not as bad as many many people on this forum. (I try not browse too much, just reply to my own stuff, it's extremely triggering at the moment), but I'm suffering from a weird host of symptoms, (the most persistent of which is that my body feels "weird" (not full blown akathesia thank god, which i had for 2-3 weeks) and lack of appetite). 

 

I don't know if it's from the carousel of meds I was on for 6 months or my current regimin, how long this will all take, how work is going to go, my relationships, (it all starts again tomorrow). Everyone's journey is different and I have this glimmer of hope that since I was the meds for a relatively short time, perhaps it might be shorter journey than some. 

 

I seem to have found a psych recommended on this forum and I hope I'm on the right path now. 

 

But yes, for now, one day at a time. Thanks again

 

Saxman. 

[Carmie]

Hi saxman, 

 

Yes, there’s certainly a lot of trying to figure out what to do next. I recently had to calculate the math for a crosstaper to my original tablets. My head nearly exploded!🧨😊

 

I’m glad you found a good psych. Just make double sure though that you never, ever taper more than 10% per month. I can only taper by around 4% to 5% a month at the moment myself. 

 

And remember to never taper when you’re not stable. Sometimes when we make too many changes, or we taper too quickly, or don’t hold long enough, it can hit us later on. That’s happened to me before. Slow and steady, and long holds is the way to go. There’s no need to rush. When we rush we don’t get anywhere quicker because our symptoms get worse and then we have to hold longer anyway. 

 

Wishing you all all the best in your recovery 💚

[saxman101]

Thanks for all the advice Carmie. I’m hoping that I can get away with a rather faster taper on some of these medications that I’ve been on recently. I was told the linger I’m on them, the higher the chance of withdraw. I know it’s a bit risky  ... and i don’t think I’m special or w/e. I’m just trying to nip some stuff in the bud and my window is closing fast. 

 

 

Im also trying to figure out what “stable” is for me. My symptoms chance daily, I’m functional, but Since this is all so new... we’ll see. 

 

Thanks again carmie. The psych was recommended on this forum. Whatever decisions we make I’ll be sure to talk to a mod on here. 

 

Thanks again for all all the support. 

 

Saxman 

[saxman101]

01/09/19

 

10am - woke up, took 75mg buproprion, went back to bed.

12 - Woke up nausea. Threw up again. Body feels “weird” but that’s the new normal for me. 

2pm - meal. Little appetite but ate ok. 

2:30 - smoke 

3pm - 37.5mg buproprion 

4pm - walk inner restlessness but feel ok. 

5pm - church. Ditto 

6pm - drove to store.

830 - smoke. 

9pm - dinner. No appetite. But ok. 

11pm - .5mg clonazepam 50mg trazodone 

12 - sleep. Slept “lightly” and not so well, but feel not terrible the next morning, which is the first time in weeks. Odd. 

 

 

Positives: no body aches. Those seem to have passed (knock on wood). Today was a day of early morning nausea followed by inner restlessness. 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by ChessieCat
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[saxman101]

1/10/19

 

- returning from vacation. 

Slept poorly/lightly (prolly anxiety for flight)

9am - woke: feel best I have in a morning in a while. 

10am breakfast - 75mg buproprion 

1030am - drive 

12 - flight 

3pm- landed. Feel a bit better today overall 

7pm - drove home. 

9pm - unpacked - Overall feel better today. 

11 - took bath Epsom salts 

12 - .5mg clonazepam 50g trazodone. 

1am - fell asleep. slept ok, woke a few times, back to bed. 

 

9am - Woke - 75mg buproprion and banana. nausea is back, threw up  

 

positives: no nausea yesterday, just that dratted slight akathisia or whatever all day, as always. 

[saxman101]

1/11/19 

9am - banana 75mg buproprion . Banana. Nausea threw up again. Tremors. 

11am - smoke

11:30am - upset stomach. 

12pm - Meal. 1/4 teaspoon of magnesium “calm” supplement. Trying it out. 1/4 recommended dose. 

1pm - Work - feel better 

3pm - buproprion 37.5mg And banana. Upset stomach as usual. 

3:30pm - back to work. Feel better overall today after morning. Can at least sit still. 

5pm walk - feel ok. 

8pm - left work. Inner restlessness is best it has been since 7 weeks ago. Perhaps it was the magnesium? 

9pm - meal. No appetite. Upset stomach. Been going to the bathroom all day. 

930 - bath Epsom salts -feel ok

11pm .5mg clonazepam 50mg trazodone 

12am - sleep. Slept ok. Woke up a few times but that’s the new normal. 

9:30am woke - bupropion 75mg . tremors a bit less. Nausea very little. Inner restlessness back. 

[saxman101]

1/12/19 

 

9am - banana 75mg buproprion . Banana. Tremors. But better than yesterday. 

10am - call with relatives. Upset me. Anxiety. 

11am - meal. 1/4 teaspoon CALM magnesium 

12 - work 

2:45pm - bupropion 37.5mg 

3pm - more work 

4pm - worked myself up needlessly by rea ding online about w/d and benzos. I HAVE to stop doing this. My hypochondriasis is off the charts because of all of this. Need to accept and not do this to my

Nervous system. I’m such an idiot. 

5 - work but now rly anxious. Work not going well. 

6pm - smoke 

7 - drove home 

9 - dinner - ate little 

10:30pm- .5mg clonazepam 50mg trazodone. 1.5mg melatonin. 

11:30pm sleep. slept well. 

9am - Woke up. Tremors and restlessness are back, but manageable I hope. Not as bad as when all of this began at least. Work today... 

 

Notes: Bad day. Restlessness back. Worked myself up and couldn’t settle down. No nausea this morning. 

[Shep]

On 1/11/2019 at 1:05 PM, saxman101 said:

9am - woke: feel best I have in a morning in a while

 

4 hours ago, saxman101 said:

11:30pm sleep. slept well. 

 

Saxman, I received your PM and just wanted to touch base with you here on your thread. 

 

I read through your last few drug and symptoms journal and you seem to be making some improvements. 

 

Do you feel in the grand overall picture like you are stabilizing and feeling better? 

 

4 hours ago, saxman101 said:

4pm - worked myself up needlessly by rea ding online about w/d and benzos. I HAVE to stop doing this. My hypochondriasis is off the charts because of all of this. Need to accept and not do this to my

Nervous system. I’m such an idiot. 

 

You're not an idiot. The drugs affect the fear center of the brain and it makes you look for something in the external world to match up to that level of internal fear. Since there's nothing in your everyday world to make sense of the fear (you have a job, a home, food in the fridge, etc), you're seeking out scare stories for equilibrium. 

 

For the next week or so, please find 3 or 4 "change the channel" ideas that you can quickly resort to. This will get you started:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Just telling yourself your not going to look at these benzo scare stories is not enough. You need to have an alternative already handy and ready to go. 

 

I used video games on my phone, short Mooji meditations on YouTube, taking a break at work and going for a walk outside in the sun, etc. 

 

Try to come up with some ideas that you like and over the coming week, go straight to those and see if you can re-program yourself so you don't feed the wolves, so to speak, when the fear center of your brain starts to howl and want attention. 

 

Give it only calming activities and thoughts. These episodes are an invitation to practice these non-drug coping skills so that by the time you're off these drugs, you'll have set a solid foundation of non-drop coping skills that will be less of a practice and more of a lifestyle. 

 

[saxman101]

6 hours ago, Shep said:

Saxman, I received your PM and just wanted to touch base with you here on your thread. 

  

I read through your last few drug and symptoms journal and you seem to be making some improvements. 

 

Do you feel in the grand overall picture like you are stabilizing and feeling better? 

 

Thanks @Shep

 

I do think that in the overall picture I am better and more stable. BUT, if these are "windows" and "waves" I'm experiencing, they last mere hours. The overall trajectory of the recovery seems to have plateaued a bit and gains are now slow, but steadily better... Serious Flu-like body aches have minimized and I hope will not return (knock on wood). I wish it was the restlessness that left. That one is the one I fear the most. It's extremely scary when it's bad. 

 

In general, I wake up every morning with the worst symptoms. Then it tends to settle down throughout the day.

 

My upset stomach has been nonstop for 3 weeks now and I'm experimenting with cutting carbs from my diet. Seems to help a little. 

 

I am also experimenting with taking a 1/4 teaspoon of CALM magnesium. Seems to help. Also taking epsom salt baths. 

6 hours ago, Shep said:

You're not an idiot. The drugs affect the fear center of the brain and it makes you look for something in the external world to match up to that level of internal fear. Since there's nothing in your everyday world to make sense of the fear (you have a job, a home, food in the fridge, etc), you're seeking out scare stories for equilibrium. 

 

For the next week or so, please find 3 or 4 "change the channel" ideas that you can quickly resort to. This will get you started:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Just telling yourself your not going to look at these benzo scare stories is not enough. You need to have an alternative already handy and ready to go. 

 

I used video games on my phone, short Mooji meditations on YouTube, taking a break at work and going for a walk outside in the sun, etc. 

 

Try to come up with some ideas that you like and over the coming week, go straight to those and see if you can re-program yourself so you don't feed the wolves, so to speak, when the fear center of your brain starts to howl and want attention. 

 

Give it only calming activities and thoughts. These episodes are an invitation to practice these non-drug coping skills so that by the time you're off these drugs, you'll have set a solid foundation of non-drop coping skills that will be less of a practice and more of a lifestyle. 

 

Ok, walks is one I already do. I try to do "box breathing" and time them in sync with my steps (I find it easier to move around when very anxious). 

 

Will try to add some more to my list this week. It's very very hard to "change the channel" but you are right, it's a skill I can use in the future going forward in my life. 

 

Thanks Shep. It can be very lonely with these symptoms. Thanks for writing. 

 

Much love. 

 

Saxman. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shep]

7 hours ago, saxman101 said:

Ok, walks is one I already do. I try to do "box breathing" and time them in sync with my steps (I find it easier to move around when very anxious). 

 

Will try to add some more to my list this week. It's very very hard to "change the channel" but you are right, it's a skill I can use in the future going forward in my life. 

 

I'm glad to see you already adding this into your day. 

 

Walking and moving around to handle a anxiety is good. Have you ever tried a walking meditation? 

 

What Is Walking Meditation?

 

How to do walking meditation - A simple guide video (5 minutes)

 

Sometimes anxiety can be too severe to be able to be very mindful when walking, but for milder anxiety, it might be something to explore.

 

 

7 hours ago, saxman101 said:

My upset stomach has been nonstop for 3 weeks now and I'm experimenting with cutting carbs from my diet. Seems to help a little. 

 

 

Did this start after you added in clonazepam and Trazedone? 

 

Please update your signature with your latest Wellbutrin dose and the date(s) of your decreases. This will make it much easier to give advice, as these kinds of changes can also cause upticks in symptoms.  It looks like you're now down to 112.5 - is that correct? Here is a direct link to your signature: 

 

Account - Settings - Signature

 

[saxman101]

7 hours ago, Shep said:

I'm glad to see you already adding this into your day. 

 

Walking and moving around to handle a anxiety is good. Have you ever tried a walking meditation? 

 

What Is Walking Meditation?

 

How to do walking meditation - A simple guide video (5 minutes)

 

Sometimes anxiety can be too severe to be able to be very mindful when walking, but for milder anxiety, it might be something to explore.

 

@Shep Thanks for these links. I will explore them tonight before bed and see if I can incorporate them into my routine. Box breathing is nice because it feels like my body is in sync "4 steps - in breath. 4 steps - out breath." But perhaps if the anxiety is milder I can do the mindfulness techniques. I've read a few books on it. Just seems very difficult to do when anxiety is high. 

 

7 hours ago, Shep said:

Did this start after you added in clonazepam and Trazedone? 

 

Please update your signature with your latest Wellbutrin dose and the date(s) of your decreases. This will make it much easier to give advice, as these kinds of changes can also cause upticks in symptoms.  It looks like you're now down to 112.5 - is that correct? Here is a direct link to your signature: 

 

Yes, I think my nausea and upset stomach started after I started taking these meds. I had other very bad symptoms the first 2-3 weeks, but not nausea or upset stomach. Those seem to be newer...  In my situation it seems hard to attribute anything to this current cocktail or the other one I came off of when this all began (Prozac, briefly cymbalta and Depakote). 

 

Updated my Sig. Thanks. Let me know if it needs a tweak. 

[saxman101]

1/13/19 

 

9am - woke. 75mg bupropion. Tremors and restlessness is back. Can sit still at least, but unpleasant and hard to focus. 

10:30 - Meal. 1/4 teaspoon CALM magnesium. 

11am - Work. Work distracts. Very thankful to be able to work through this. 

130pm - Walk. Feel a bit better. Restlessness easing up. 

2pm - Light meal. 

3pm - More work . Feel much better today now. 

6pm - Burger. Ate ok for a change. 

9pm - Left work. Long day, but I made it. Feel better. 

10pm - Bath with Epsom salts. 

11pm - .5mg clonazepam 50g trazodone. Read before bed. 

12:30 - Sleep. Slept ok. Woke up a few times as usual, but right back to bed. 

9:30am - Wake up. 75mg Buproprion 1/4 teaspoon CALM. Tremors, but less than yesterday. Slight restlessness. 

[Shep]

16 hours ago, saxman101 said:

@Shep Thanks for these links. I will explore them tonight before bed and see if I can incorporate them into my routine. Box breathing is nice because it feels like my body is in sync "4 steps - in breath. 4 steps - out breath." But perhaps if the anxiety is milder I can do the mindfulness techniques. I've read a few books on it. Just seems very difficult to do when anxiety is high. 

 

Thanks for explaining "boxed breathing". It sounds like you do it while walking? Perhaps a variation on a theme of Walking Meditation, so you may already be doing a form of it. I'm glad you find it helpful. 

 

You username - Saxman - do you play the saxophone? You may be interested in the non-drug coping link in the non-drug coping section on Music Therapy:

 

Music Therapy / Music for Wellness and Healing

 

16 hours ago, saxman101 said:

Yes, I think my nausea and upset stomach started after I started taking these meds

 

Thanks for this information. I'm wondering if it may be the Trazodone, although there's no way to know when two drugs are added simultaneously. But I'm noting this from the Tips for Tapering off Trazodone thread about the mCPP, or what Alto describes as the "evil active metabolite" aspect of Trazodone: 

 

On 7/19/2012 at 10:40 PM, Altostrata said:

For some people, mCPP produces not only anxiety but headaches and a hallucinatory effect. So while trazodone may help you sleep at night, mCPP might make you feel sick, anxious, and out of control during the day.

 

Since the combo of Trazodone and clonazepam is giving you a good night's sleep, it may be worth it to keep taking them while you come off the Wellbutrin, if you can find ways of handling the nausea and anxiety and restlessness that can come the next day. Of course, the Wellbutrin may be adding to this. 

 

It's also a sign that you may want to come off the Trazodone prior to the clonazepam when you get to that point. 

 

16 hours ago, saxman101 said:

3pm - More work . Feel much better today now. 

6pm - Burger. Ate ok for a change. 

9pm - Left work. Long day, but I made it. Feel better. 

 

You had a better day. I hope this trend continues. 

[saxman101]

1/14/19  

 

9am - Woke. 75mg bupropion. Tremors bad (cold day). Restlessness. Can sit still at least, but very very unpleasant and hard to focus. 

10:30 - Meal. No appetite 

11am - Work. Can work, but restlessness still. 

12 - Smoke 

3pm - Buproprion 37.5mg

5pm - Left work. Feel “weird” as usual :( 

5:30 - Bath with Epsom salts 

6 - Usually symptoms die down towards evening. Today restlessness is worse. 

8pm - Meal. Restlessness is bad tonight. Just gotta push through... 

10pm - CBT homework - restlessness let up a bit finally. Was scary. 

11pm - .5mg Clonazepam 50g Trazodone. Feel better now. Must have been a mini wave late afternoon. 

12pm - Sleep. Slept ok. 

[saxman101]

6 hours ago, Shep said:

Thanks for explaining "boxed breathing". It sounds like you do it while walking? Perhaps a variation on a theme of Walking Meditation, so you may already be doing a form of it. I'm glad you find it helpful. 

 

You username - Saxman - do you play the saxophone? You may be interested in the non-drug coping link in the non-drug coping section on Music Therapy:

 

Music Therapy / Music for Wellness and Healing

 

Yes, I do play saxophone. I haven't in the past month or so, but perhaps I can start to slowly sort of pick it up again and see where it leads. I've been journaling a lot and doing CBT homework every night. Trying to combat the many many negative thoughts that arise daily these days. I think it helps, esp before bed.

 

6 hours ago, Shep said:

Thanks for this information. I'm wondering if it may be the Trazodone, although there's no way to know when two drugs are added simultaneously. But I'm noting this from the Tips for Tapering off Trazodone thread about the mCPP, or what Alto describes as the "evil active metabolite" aspect of Trazodone: 

 

Yes, I read about this as well. I am hoping that since I am on a low dose of Trazodone and tapering the Wellbutrin that this will help to minimize the effects of this metabolyte. We've already tapered the Wellbutrin a bit and I feel generally overall a bit better, but not to a huge degree. I think it's the residual effects of the old cocktail that I CT'd that I'm dealing with mostly, but no way of knowing. Today I am seeing a psych recommended by this forum and hopefully all goes well. I will ask his opinion about everything that's going on with me. 

 

7 hours ago, Shep said:

Since the combo of Trazodone and clonazepam is giving you a good night's sleep, it may be worth it to keep taking them while you come off the Wellbutrin, if you can find ways of handling the nausea and anxiety and restlessness that can come the next day. Of course, the Wellbutrin may be adding to this. 

  

 It's also a sign that you may want to come off the Trazodone prior to the clonazepam when you get to that point.

 

Yes, understood. I am hoping that I can have some answers later today. Just really really scared of the Clonazepam because I hear it can be really hard to get off of the longer you are on it and the withdrawals can be terrible. I'm especially afraid of the inner restlessness spiking again. That was near-unbearable. But I am trying hard not to think about it. Changing the channel on it. It's difficult. 

 

7 hours ago, Shep said:

You had a better day. I hope this trend continues. 

 

Thank you. Yes, two days ago was good. Yesterday was rougher. I seem to alternate a bit. But overall things are trending upwards I think. 

 

Thanks again @Shep for your advice and following my thread. My therapist, family and psych all recommended this cocktail when I was at my worst (first 2-3 weeks) and now I'm dealing with the ramifications. Feel like everyone around me either does not care (my old pill pusher psych), or wanted the best for me, but only drove me deeper into this mess (family and (now former) therapist). Very hard to deal with emotionally as well, but I will get out of this mess somehow. Slow and steady. Thanks for the support and kind words and advice. It really does help Shep. 

 

best,

 

Saxman. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

I do think the buproprion-trazodone interaction is likely causing those daytime symptoms.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 1:35 PM, Altostrata said:

Well, there you have it.

 

Buproprion on its own is known to cause sleeplessness and lack of appetite. With trazodone's evil metabolite mCPP during the day, the drug combination might be adding to your sensations of anxiety.

 

If you don't feel better after taking bupropion, it probably isn't helping at all. You've been on it since early December? Did you step up to 150mg or did you start at 150mg? If you stepped it up, when did you last increase the dosage?

 

When was the last time you reduced buproprion? I am seeing an adverse reaction to both doses.

[saxman101]

Hey alto,

 

I made the first taper 01/04/19 

 

Thanks so much. 

[saxman101]

If all goes well with new psych will ask for 100sr script 

[saxman101]

So, I went to see the psych today (one recommended on this forum as I take it, don't want to mention by name, but Alto knows).

 

He said that, in general, I was doing ok, considering the gauntlet of meds I went through. He said that I was in many way "lucky" in many respects because A) I had a bad reaction to the Cymbalta, which is apparently a terrible terrible SSRI. He also said that the current cocktail I am on is relatively light compared to anything else I was taking before and will probably be much easier to get off of. 

 

His opinion (without my input at all), is that the worst offender in my current cocktail is the Clonazepam and that, having only taken it for a month, I was again lucky, because there's an opportunity to do a taper to get off of it before it's too late. He also thinks that my current symptoms are most likely a result of the previous cocktail and not the current one. (I am just relaying information here, not trying to say anything negative about anyone here or this forum or its practices). 

 

My current inner restlessness "akathisia," which is much better than it was in the first 2-3 weeks, should pass with some time. He's seen the worst and I'm not not that bad... 

 

I'm in a very confused/scared spot again. I am getting conflicting advice from everyone around me about what to do. Even "trusted" docs that specialize in WD and write about it frequently. 

 

That being said, I'm inclined to follow his advice about the Clonazepam taper...  . It scares the crap out of me. 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

On 1/7/2019 at 10:24 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Benzo withdrawal is not good. We're going to assume you're dependent, pleasant surprise if you're not. That may be the last thing you go off.

 

 

Alto's above comment was more than a week ago.  You might want to reconsider which drug you taper.

 

From https://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker

Serious - Use Alternative

• trazodone + bupropion

  trazodone increases toxicity of bupropion by unspecified interaction mechanism. Avoid or Use Alternate Drug. May lower seizure threshold; keep bupropion dose as low as possible.

Monitor Closely

• clonazepam + trazodone

  clonazepam and trazodone both increase sedation. Use Caution/Monitor.

[Altostrata]

saxman, did you show this doctor your daily drug and symptom notes?

 

It looks to me like you get an adverse reaction -- anxiety, restlessness, etc. -- from each dose of buproprion. I believe you said you feel better since you reduced to 112.5mg Wellbutrin? 

 

These indicate an adverse reaction, rather than your background withdrawal syndrome, and that further reduction of buproprion might be best for you. It will also reduce any interaction with mCPP from trazodone.

 

If you want, you can try a taper of clonazepam, but your sleep might suffer. Up to you, which way do you want to go?

[Carmie]

Hi saxman,

 

How have you been doing?💚

[saxman101]

Hey Carmie, 

 

Thanks for thinking of me. It means so much that soeone outI've been avoiding posting or looking up anything online because I'm extremely impressionable, especially now. But here's an update.

 

Update:

 

I'm 4.5 months in now. 

 

Since I was last on I was able to get off of my current cocktail with the help of a Dr. recommended by this site. Because I wasn't on the meds very long he recognized that it was a risk, but that I should probably get off with a fast taper. He thought that my current symptoms were caused by WD from whatever I took before and not the current cocktail. I think he's right. We briefly spoke about reinstatement, but in my case it's unclear what to reinstate... 

 

This was an extremely anxious time. The Dr. saying one thing, my family insisting that I need to take MORE drugs (my first psych trying to get me to do ECT)  etc... 

 

So seemingly, I tapered off without incident... And for a few weeks it seemed like I was improving. Symptoms were easing a bit OVERALL, but slightly volatile. 

 

But about a month ago, (few weeks off meds entirely) my mother was in a car accident (she's ok. Just financial and emotional stress). I think this may have derailed me seriously. My situation has become highly volatile again for the past month. I'll have days where the symptoms are manageable, but still highly unpleasant, days where it's quite a grind to get through, and occasionally days where I'm holding on for dear life again just like when this all started, where all I can do is circle the block and wring my hands and occasionally cry . I couldn't seem to stabilize. The past 3-4 days have been ok, knock on wood. 

 

Symptoms: 

 

- Body pains. Like a clenched fist all over my back and arms that won't let go. 

- Tremors and sensitivity to cold. I shake a lot. At night I sometimes awake like in a high fever burning up. 

- Weird sensations. Like the inside of my head and entire body is covered in potent Icy Hot/Bengay. Prickling and needling sensations. When these are extreme it is very difficult to function. 

- Vomiting, especially in the morning. The moment I open my eyes usually. Keep a bucket by the bed. 

- Soft stool / IBS. Constantly. Experimenting with probiotics. 

- Lack of appetite. Lucky to get a meal down a day. 

- Anxiety Neuro emotions, sometimes extreme. Accompanied by terrible thoughts. 

- Brain zaps at night. (This is a weird one. Never during the day that I can notice. They happen at night, If I have insomnia after a light sleep I can feel these rapid pulsating mini electrical storms in my head, on the right side of my head).

- Occasional insomnia. This is a new one. Very troubling to have new symptoms. I know some people on this forum unfortunately can't sleep at all. I've started getting insomnia and can now see how debilitating it is. For me, on bad days I sometimes get 3-4 hours. Usually a good 7-8 though. 

- On bad days terrible terrible intrusive thoughts and neuro-emotions I can't control. 

- At night when I wake up I can feel these constant, low flying brain zaps, like there's an electrical storm in my brain at night. Perhaps this explains why I usually get relief in the evenings and mornings are always tough. 

- Also a new one. Most troubling of all, when I'm half asleep I can feel my body slightly twitching involuntarily. Only when asleep. Of course, I looked at this forum, says "tardive dyskinesia" and it ruined my day. I really can't visit this forum much. I'm so so so impressionable. I half wish I knew nothing about WD, but if I didnt Id probably be undergoing ECT if my old psych had his way. ECT for "Dysthymia." Makes me sick. 

 

Symptoms pattern: The only discernable pattern to my symptoms at this moment is that they are most intense in the mornings and seem to fade at 7-8pm. On terrible days even the slightest abatement of symptoms is a godsend.

 

The Good news?:  The good days are getting better slowly. I had one stretch of evening hours last week where I felt almost entirely symptom free, just very weak. What a pure joy that was! Unfortunately it was followed by a day where I wouldn't have cared if a bus hit me the pain and nuero-emotions were so bad. BUT still, I take it as a sign of progress? 

 

It's extremely difficult to track my progress because of the volatility and the rotation of symptoms, but OVERALL, month to month, there is progress undeniably. 

 

I've stopped smoking cigarettes last week and replaced it with vaporizing. I'm taking more nicotine into me overall on bad days, but at least I'm not smoking. 

 

What's worked to help me: 

 

- Walking: Lots of walking. On nightmare days this is all I can do. Pace the block. 

 

- Distractions: If I can I try to be around people and nature. I work a lot. This is a double edged sword. Work certainly distracts, but adds lots of stress to my life. But I have to work to support myself and my mom. 

 

- Meditation - At night I'm able to meditate a bit. I have a "night ritual." I take my melatonin 3mg, light an aromatic candle (The same scent every time) and I hold the same object and listen to the same music. I'm trying to develop a subconscious reaction to these things. On "medium" days, if I'm just on the edge of panic, I'll take out a little piece of candle and sniff it and listen to the music on my ipod. Its helping a bit. On bad days nothing can save me that I've found so far. 

 

- Working. Some days work seems impossible and definitely does not aid my recovery. But I need the distraction so badly on other days. Most days are a huge grind just to fill up the hours. 

 

- Massage. on good days helps to relax me. It's funny sometimes sometimes me arms will shake involuntarily when massaged. My nervous system is haywire clearly. 

 

- Clair Weekes book. I "float" as much as possible and try to keep calm. This has only recently become possible to grasp as I needed a string of a few good days. 

 

- Seeing nature. Being around nature. Preferably with people. 

 

- Prayer

 

and not worked: 

 

- I spent a fortune on CBT therapy. It seemed to help at the beginning, but at one point he tried "exposure therapy" (exposing me to my symptoms) and it made my entire week a nightmare. 

 

- Magnesium supplements and epsom salts. No effect. 

 

- Probiotics. 

 

- Change of diet. 

 

What I plan to do in the future: 

 

- Frightens me a bit, but am going to try light jogging if I can string together a few good days. I'm weak, but maybe itll help with my mind and weird body sensations. Massage helps. When I had my depression this is what got me through the days. Funny how now I have massive anxiety all day every day. 

 

- acupuncture. No experience here, but willing to try. 

 

- Binaural beats to sleep. 

 

- See a GI doctor. I had bloodwork done last month, came back entirely normal. See what GI man says. 

 

- perhaps see a neurologist if my Dr. thinks it's wise. 

 

Conclusion (for now): 

 

I'd hoped that by now things would've settled down, but it seems that I'm in for a longer haul. 

 

(I know everything is relative. There are people on here suffering much much much worse for much much longer than me. But I'm barely functioning at times here and hard to come to terms with that. I'm immensely thankful for many many things in my life now. I thank God every day that I can work. I'm also just very sensitive and kind of obsessive personality to begin with) 

 

My Dr. says that even the amount of improvement I've seen in the past months is very promising and maybe I'll get over this in about a year. My other primary care Dr. (who I also found and recognizes withdrawal) says 2 more months (the time I was on the drugs is the time it takes to come off he says), but that seems unrealistic at the moment. I'd need to see some phenomenal stability and improvement in April for that to happen. 

 

I'm just trying to get through every day and not think about tomorrow. Just "floating." I fully recognize that I am in many ways making my WD 100X worse by not controlling my thoughts and emotions. If I didn't have these weird brain zaps, body pains and Icy hot feelings I'd say that my symptoms are mostly very typical for what Claire Weekes describes as a nervous breakdown: Insomnia, Gi issues, tremors, etc... I'm hoping some of these will go away if I can keep calm for a week or more. 

 

I'm immensely thankful now for days where I can just function somewhat normally. I miss my past life and lost some friends. The girl I was seeing left me etc. But at the moment none of that matters. I'll get through this somehow. I'm young. I have time to heal. Trying hard not to fall into self pity and remain positive. I've given up wishing that I'll wake up better one morning soon. Just day by day now. 

 

Anyway, thanks to anyone who reads this novel of an update. It's length is a way to make up for lack of updates for three months. Any and all advice appreciated. I won't be visiting other threads for fear of triggers and bad placebo effect. Hope you understand. 

 

Saxman.

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Carmie
Removed white space

[Carmie]

Hi saxman, 

 

I’m glad the good days are slowly getting better for you, I’m sorry you still have a lot of symptoms. I hope your mum is okay too after the trauma of her car accident.

 

When you said you’re 4.5 months in, what did you mean? You were still on meds in January, weren’t you? You said you got off your cocktail of drugs in this last post. Sorry, I’ve got brain fog and can’t read a lot. Are you still on any medication?

 

Could you please update your signature. I think some of the dates aren’t correct there either. You’ve got 12/12/19 and 11/27/19. Did you mean 2019? We haven’t reached December 2019 as yet. Thanks so much. 

 

If you find visiting other threads a trigger it’s a good idea that you’re staying away. 

 

Wishing you all all the best in your recovery 💚

[saxman101]

Hello Carmie, 

 

Yes, you are correct of course. I was still on meds even in February (Got off of everything by mid feb). But my psych says that I am withdrawing from the first one, from the reaction I had 11/18/18.

 

I do not discount the fact that coming off of this most recent batch might have done something as well, but my symptoms remained relatively unchanged throughout it all and were it not for the stress of my mother's accident even got better a bit OVERALL. If that makes sense. 

 

Yes, of course, I'm sorry for such a long post and people with Cog fog and all that, but I'm just experiencing a lot anxiety these days and other weird things. But things are getting better. 

 

I updated my signature. Did I answer all your questions? 

 

 

 

[saxman101]

Basically, My symptoms have only gotten better since this all started in 11/18, with a notable and big dip in March, which i attribute to my mom's situation, but could be the destabilization of coming off of stuff? 

 

The only exception is with my sleep, which is worse now, but that makes sense because i was on trazodone and kolonopin? 

 

I get these brain zaps, but only at night... its weird and they sometimes wake me up they're so intense. But i fall back to sleep. Only taking 3mg melatonin at night. That's it. 

 

Weird prickling sensations in the body too. 

 

Tried acupuncture and seemed to work. 

 

Anxiety getting better. Can work thank God. Trying to surround myself with people.