SkyStreamer: tapering off Cipralex / escitalopram safely

[Hamster]

Hi,

1) it's both. I used it to treat coughs (it should help to get rid of mucus in the lungs) and that's what its sold for as a medicine.
On the other hand it has antioxidative properties and is therefore marketed as a supplement.

2) No, I only used it for a couple of days (maybe 10 days in a row max) as medication, 600 mg/day.

3) Usually in the morning

4) No idea, it is known to interact with some kinds of antibiotics.

In a study just going on (https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-018-1845-1) they administered the NAC twice daily in combination to the usual AD treatment.

5/6) I did not experience any WD symptoms (but I did not combine it with ADs)

 

Regards,

 

Hamster

[SkyStreamer]

@Phil  @peggy  @GiaK  @spectio  @Rhiannon  @Nadia  @Finn  @Barbarannamated  @alexjuice  @BinxBolling  @pennygracie  @Olivia  @alwayslookup  @MatGMax @starcontrol2

 

@Faithgrl  @Festus  @Ryder @neurotransmission  @asdf  

 

I noticed that you all commented on the topic thread about N-acetylcysteine. Can any of you answer any of my questions on my last post above?

 

Thanks for your help with this!

[Ryder]

Its an over the counter drug that you don't need a script for.

 

I took it for a year and got addicted and because it worked so well, I started dosing more than once per day. Sure it acts like a pain reliever, like a panadol ? But, I started having side affects like paranoia, increased heartrate, blurred vision, confusion. I believed at the time the Zoloft was the cause of it but once i stopped NAC, I could drive again as your mind is so dulled.

 

My Naturopath doctor had prescribed this to me on top of an SSRI and a Benzo. Took it for 1 year.

 

I have few regrets over this journey in taping. Taking NAC was one of them.

 

I would say, if you avoid taking NAC that would be the best thing you could do for yourself.

 

 

 

[SkyStreamer]

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

Its an over the counter drug that you don't need a script for.

 

I took it for a year and got addicted and because it worked so well, I started dosing more than once per day. Sure it acts like a pain reliever, like a panadol ? But, I started having side affects like paranoia, increased heartrate, blurred vision, confusion. I believed at the time the Zoloft was the cause of it but once i stopped NAC, I could drive again as your mind is so dulled.

 

Thanks for your feedback, Ryder!

 

Could your bad experience of NAC be because of a negative interaction it had with your other drugs and your own particular constitution? Rather than the NAC itself?

[Ryder]

4 hours ago, SkyStreamer said:

Could your bad experience of NAC be because of a negative interaction it had with your other drugs and your own particular constitution? Rather than the NAC itself?

 

Yes.

 

But let me just say this. Having tried NAC it is one of the few regrets i have had to learn from on this journey, i would not have changed medications.

 

There is a reason this forum sticks to fish oil and magnesium.

 

If you are going to try it, stick to NAC only and probably make sure you don't have any drugs in your system. Also, your naturopath, if they have told you more Supplements just try one at a time. Then you will know what is affecting you.

 

 

 

[GiaK]

NAC is a detoxifier...I use it about once or twice a month...it's very helpful in a targeted as needed basis. I basically do that with most everything now...I've learned to listen to the body and I use what I need when I need it. NAC has literally saved my life at times (after ending up in ICU 2 years ago, I've really learned how to avoid ending up there again...appropriate detoxifying has been critical) 

 

it is indeed very potent. the learning curve for me was a bumpy one yet necessary. 

[SkyStreamer]

47 minutes ago, GiaK said:

NAC is a detoxifier...I use it about once or twice a month...it's very helpful in a targeted as needed basis. I basically do that with most everything now...I've learned to listen to the body and I use what I need when I need it. NAC has literally saved my life at times (after ending up in ICU 2 years ago, I've really learned how to avoid ending up there again...appropriate detoxifying has been critical) 

 

it is indeed very potent. the learning curve for me was a bumpy one yet necessary. 

 

Thanks GiaK for getting back to me! I really appreciate it. 

 

Can I ask why you don't use NAC more often? Do you think this supplement is addictive at all?

 

Also, I noticed on some of the topic threads, that you have struggled with histamine intolerance. I seem to be struggling with this as of late. Have you found any vitamins or supplements helpful in dealing with this sensitivity? (i.e., Vitamin C, quercetin, & bromelain)? My doctor says vitamins/supplements are only helpful with histamine intolerance and inflammation when you are also using an antioxidant like NAC.

 

After my rough time with ADs and wd, I can't just take my Doctor's word at face value any more. Hence, my research and questions.

[GiaK]

if you're "addicted" to it I think you probably need it. It's beneficial and largely safe in general. Most of us who find ourselves in these forums have severe detoxification issues (at least for a while...sensitivities almost always go hand in hand with detox issues)...anything that keeps lympth running smoothly is very important. I do a whole lot of things for lymph. If I take NAC more than 2 days in a row I start to retain water...and after using it once or twice I don't generally need it again for a long while. It's hard to talk about how I can tell all of this except with the rare folks I've met who have done a lot of radical detox like I have. I learned this by studying my body...it takes time...I do also research for info but I take everything I learn and read with a grain of salt. My body always has the final say. 

 

this post has something about body felt sense knowledge and how to learn about it...as well as info about keeping lymph going https://beyondmeds.com/2019/05/20/kitchen-witch/ 

[SkyStreamer]

Thanks @GiaK !

 

Have you found any vitamins or supplements helpful for addressing histamine intolerance?

[GiaK]

13 hours ago, SkyStreamer said:

Thanks @GiaK !

 

Have you found any vitamins or supplements helpful for addressing histamine intolerance?

 

not really. I no longer have histamine issues. I ate really low histamine for 3 years and then moved on...healed from that particular issue. I had really dramatic glutamate issues after that. (histamine was also bad at the time I cut it out, but I also think that eliminating almost anything from our diet helps quiet down the chaos so we can better hear what is happening and learn to listen to our bodies) Coming to balance takes time and for me it's been a moving target. If I take care of one thing another one arises...slowly it's been coming to balance in a general sense. 

 

I've always liked quercetin...it remains intermittently helpful...like other supps...

 

Quercetin was also Yasmina's (the Low HIstamine Chef's) favorite supplement...but as usual...I like to underscore that what works for one person may not help another...so...I rarely get explicit about what I take especially since everything is on an organic rotation and I can't tell you what I'm going to be taking even at my next meal most of the time. I check in as I need stuff...supplements are something I mostly avoid...but do need in targeted ways still for now. 

[SkyStreamer]

Thanks @GiaK ! You sound like you've collected a lot of knowledge and wisdom throughout your journey. Very inspiring!

[SkyStreamer]

Just reduced my dose by 1.5% yesterday from 7.2mg to 7.0mg. 

 

I'm doing about 1.5%-2.5% reductions every three to four weeks. Slow and steady just to test things out.

[Carmie]

Hi Skystreamer, 

 

All the best with your latest reduction. Yes, slow and steady is the way to go. We we all get there in the end.💚

[SkyStreamer]

On 9/10/2019 at 5:15 AM, Carmie said:

Hi Skystreamer, 

 

All the best with your latest reduction. Yes, slow and steady is the way to go. We we all get there in the end.💚

 

Thanks Carmie! I really appreciate the love and support! 

 

I see you've tapered all the way from 300mg to 6.25mg. Congratulations - that's amazing!

[Carmie]

On 9/12/2019 at 11:54 AM, SkyStreamer said:

 

Thanks Carmie! I really appreciate the love and support! 

 

I see you've tapered all the way from 300mg to 6.25mg. Congratulations - that's amazing!

 

Thanks Skystreamer, 

 

It’s taken many years to get down to 6.25. I’ve still got many more years to go, but I’ll get there. I won’t be jumping off until I’m down to a really tiny dose, maybe even 0.0something. I’ve been so sensitised by all the meds I’ve been put on and off that I feel every little drop. 

 

You’ve done really well, you’re down to 7mg, you’re not far behind me. 

 

Wishing you all all the best with your continued tapering.💚

[SkyStreamer]

Has anyone ever had an allergic reaction to their mouthguard/nightguard? 

 

I have had a rash over both parts of my lips for the last while, and I have been unable to identify any offending food. But, it just dawned on me today that my lip irritation could be an allergic reaction to something in my mouthguard. Maybe latex?

 

My mouthguard is also fairly old and is somewhat dirty and beyond the point of being able to be cleaned. So, maybe it could have an offending bacteria or something?

 

Would appreciate anyone's thoughts, experiences and/or suggestions.

[ChessieCat]

Suggestion.  Get a new one.  Non  latex.  If it goes away could be either.

 

Have you changed toothpaste or mouthwash?

[SkyStreamer]

Thanks for you input @ChessieCat ! I think I'll just throw this one out for now, see what happens with my symptoms and then go from there.

 

Can't believe I've gone a whole year and never thought about my mouthguard as a possible culprit. Amazing how unaware I can be at times. 

[SkyStreamer]

Haven't slept with a mouthguard for two nights, and I'm already sensing somer positive changes in my lips. 

 

Below are some short articles I've been reading about how unclean mouthguards can make you sick, including the lips:

 

https://www.webmd.com/oral-health/news/20040930/dental-devices-may-cause-infection#1

 

http://www.hi-techsmiles.com/mouth-guard-making-sick/

 

https://myplasticfreelife.com/discuss/miscellaneous/plastic-dental-night-guard/

- Last comment at the bottom of the page, the lady says she was sick for a year and then it dawned on her that it could be her mouthguard. She got rid of it for three days, and her sickness went away.

 

https://blog.sisuguard.com/is-your-mouthguard-making-you-sick

 

https://patch.com/massachusetts/wellesley/your-mouthpiece-making-you-sick-0

 

 https://www.healthline.com/health/thrush#symptoms

 

https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa14/2014/10/21/mouth-guards-make-athletes-sick/

 

https://www.faceandjawsurgery.com/cleaning-mouth-guards-to-avoid-mouth-disease/

 

[SkyStreamer]

On 9/13/2019 at 6:10 AM, Carmie said:

 

Thanks Skystreamer, 

 

It’s taken many years to get down to 6.25 . . . 

 

I admire your determination and balance! Progress is progress even with small steps.

 

Thanks for the well-wishes!

[SkyStreamer]

On 9/23/2019 at 9:28 PM, ChessieCat said:

Suggestion.  Get a new one.  Non  latex.  If it goes away could be either.

 

Have you changed toothpaste or mouthwash?

 

No change in toothpaste, mouthwash, or anything. And, I've done trial and error for sensitivities with all sorts of foods; and nothing!

 

The only thing that seems to fit the bill is Oral Thrush (Candida Overgrowth) on my lips. All my symptoms fit the bill almost perfectly - especially now that I seem to have ruled out food sensitivities. I have a vague sense that my problem has been this mouthgaurd. It's horrible condition made it a great culprit!

[ChessieCat]

Please post the information you have found in this topic:  facial-tics-jaw-tongue-muscle-tension-and-pain-bruxism-teeth-clenching-tmj

 

Please send me a PM to let me know that you have done that and then I will put a link to it in the first post in the topic.  Thanks.

 

[SkyStreamer]

Anyone with experience in antioxidants?

 

If so, what have you found to be beneficial (vitamins, supplements or food) - specifically?

 

A doctor told me to try NAC, but I don't feel that comfortable with this supplement. 

[SkyStreamer]

I wanted to confirm if Cipralex (lexapro) contains any antihistamine properties. But, I'm unable to locate this information.

 

Does anyone know if Cipralex/lexapro contains antihistamines? Or how to find this information?

 

Thanks!

[SkyStreamer]

PLEASE HELP -I'M VERY DESPERATE!!!! 

 

I may have to consider quitting my AD Cold Turkey!

 

My lip problem has returned with a vengeance!! And, I still don't know what it is! My lips burn, tingle, become inflamed, and sometimes oozes yellow liquid.

 

I tried anti-fungal swish liquid by itself (Nystatin). This did not work! Then, I tried an anti-fungal oral capsule along with anti-fungal cream and antibiotic cream. This did not work either!

 

There are only two things that seem to keep it at bay: steroid cream (used off and on for 2 months) and Elidel cream (used consistently for 5 months). I cannot continue to use steroid cream since it thins out my lip skin. And, I am confused about the Elidel cream. My doctor says the the black box warning was lifted from Elidel cream and that nothing serious has ever happened to either children or adults who use it over the long-term. However, my naturopath apothecary pharmacist said that Elidel cream is very dangerous and can have many serious side effects, which I have confirmed. If I choose to use nothing, my lips will, again, turn very red, begin blistering, become inflamed and ooze out yellow liquid. It's a very very ugly sight, and I don't have the courage or strength to go out in public like this. My apothecary pharmacist just did me up a non-drug cream to try, so I'll see how that goes.

 

I have gotten a variety of opinions about my lips from Doctors:

 

- My family doctor thinks its eczema (dermatitis) 

- One Dermatologist thinks it's likely a food allergy (which I tried to confirm for over 6 months and could not see any causal relationship with any food!)

- Another dermatologist thinks it's eczema (dermatitis) 

- Another doctor thought it was staph

- A different doctor said it wasn't staff

- The the apothecary pharmacist said it looked like Angioedema, and wondered whether it could be an allergic reaction to Cipralex

 

This lip problem started this past February 2019. At this time, I began juicing, and I also quit taking Claritan 24 hour allergy pills (antihistamines), which I had been taking around 2 times each week for the last 7 years (fully concurrently with my Cipralex AD).

 

Escitalopram (Cipralex is a brand of this!) does list possible skin related side-effects, some of which include: dry skin, eczema, rash, fungal dermatitis, urticaria, angioedema, and Steven's Johnson Syndrome.

 

MY QUESTIONS:

 

1. Could I have always had an allergy to Cipralex from the very beginning (i.e. my lip lip reaction), but not have it manifest until after I stopped taking Claritan antihistamines?

 

2. Could I have developed an allergy to Cipralex while tappering off of it (just like we can suddenly develop allergies to foods that we previously had no issue with)?

 

3. If I do have an allergy to Cipralex, should I consider quitting it cold turkey, or switching to another AD? Or should I continue to just tapering off it slowly like I'm doing (1.5%-2% each 3-4 weeks)?

 

4. What could this lip reaction be: eczema, angioedema, fungal, bacterial???

 

5. Do you think it would be safe, or at least reasonable, to keep using Elidel over the long-term (at least until I fully taper off Cipralex)?

 

Please let me know if you have any comments that fall outside of these questions. I'm really in need of help and encouragement.

 

@Altostrata @ChessieCat @Gridley @Carmie @brassmonkey

 

[Altostrata]

Cipralex does not have any antihistamine qualities.

 

What time of day do you take Cipralex? Is the lip problem better or worse at any particular times of day?

 

Allergic reactions to psychiatric drugs are usually systemic, such as hives on various areas of the body.

 

On 9/23/2019 at 3:59 PM, SkyStreamer said:

Has anyone ever had an allergic reaction to their mouthguard/nightguard? 

 

I have had a rash over both parts of my lips for the last while, and I have been unable to identify any offending food. But, it just dawned on me today that my lip irritation could be an allergic reaction to something in my mouthguard. Maybe latex?

 

My mouthguard is also fairly old and is somewhat dirty and beyond the point of being able to be cleaned. So, maybe it could have an offending bacteria or something?

 

Would appreciate anyone's thoughts, experiences and/or suggestions.

 

A dirty mouthguard might have cultured a bug locally. It may not be fungal. Did you try antiseptic mouthwash and cream for your lips? Could it be a sun allergy? Did anyone take a culture?

 

You'll have to talk more with your doctors about this, it's not a pattern we've seen related to antidepressants or withdrawal, we can't diagnose it here.

[SkyStreamer]

4 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Cipralex does not have any antihistamine qualities . . . .

 

I stopped taking Claritan pills when this lip problem started (which I had been taking twice a week during the entire time I was taking Cipralex). I'm wondering, therefore, if these antihistamine pills prevented the manifestation of an underlying allergy reaction to Cipralex, until I stopped them?

 

I take my AD at 9am. 

 

My lips are better in the morning, after a full night of nothing toughing them and not having liquid and food touch them. They are worse as the day goes on, due to increased contact with them.

 

Would you advise putting antiseptic mouthwash on my lips? How often? And what would that do in terms of a cultured bug?

 

Thanks to your response, Alto! 

[Altostrata]

5 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

A dirty mouthguard might have cultured a bug locally. It may not be fungal. Did you try antiseptic mouthwash and cream for your lips? Could it be a sun allergy? Did anyone take a culture?

 

You'll have to talk more with your doctors about this, it's not a pattern we've seen related to antidepressants or withdrawal, we can't diagnose it here.

 

If you think it's an allergy, you might take Claritin again and see what happens. Do the lip symptoms seem to be better or worse at any particular times of day?

[SkyStreamer]

35 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Allergic reactions to psychiatric drugs are usually systemic, such as hives on various areas of the body.

 

Alto, when my lip problem first arose, I also had a similar reaction on my penis and around my eyes and below my cheeks. This reaction on my penis and around my eyes and cheeks lasted for about 2 months, and then disappeared for 2 months, and then appeared on only my penis two more times at the 4 month mark. Since then, I've been left mainly with the lip issue (the last 2 months). Would you qualify this as systemic? 

 

My family doctor said that this was all just eczema. But, it hasn't felt like typical eczema. And, I never experienced this before the ADs. 

[Altostrata]

I am unable to diagnose the lip problem or recommend treatment for it. If a doctor took a swab for a culture, the bug that's causing it could be identified, if a bug is present, and more appropriate treatment prescribed.

 

Is there anything else that might be causing a contact allergy? Perhaps you might change to an unscented detergent for your washing to eliminate that as an irritant? Talk to an allergist about this.

 

If you are allergic to Cipralex, your symptoms would be more severe shortly after you take your dose. It's hard to tell from your symptom pattern if this is happening, because the irritation might be "due to increased contact" rather than Cipralex.

 

If you are allergic to Cipralex, reduction of the dosage should reduce the reaction. But you may be so sensitive to the drug, this might not happen quickly.

 

[SkyStreamer]

Thanks for these comments, @Altostrata

 

[SkyStreamer]

I just started a new job. Starting part-time, but will move to full time in a few weeks.

 

I'm so overwhelmed by anxiety, fear, and overwhelm. My mind keeps telling me over and over that I'm going to burn out, have a break down and end up in the hospital. I try to fight these thoughts, but they are so powerful that I find myself believing them many times throughout the day. 

 

I'm still trying to move forward and take care of myself. I just don't how long I'll be able to keep doing this, if my symptoms don't start improving.

 

Any advice?

 

Should I increase my dose slightly, so I can get through this stressful phase in my life?

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, SkyStreamer said:

Should I increase my dose slightly, so I can get through this stressful phase in my life?

 

Rather than updose, I'd suggest you hold through this stressful phase.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Gridley

[jozeff]

Hi skystreamer,

 

Sorry to hear you are struggling this much.

 

A new job is a stressful situation and it is completely normal things are difficult for you now.

 

If I were you I would not updose...just my thoughts. You have been on 6.9 mg for two months now and updosing might make things worse. I have updosed a few times and I regret it. 

 

I think you are having a lot of stress and this increases your symptoms.

 

You are not going mad!! This is your brain telling you that you are spiraling down. Actually you are not. Breathe, enjoy the times you feel ok and try not to focus too much on the symptoms...I know, sounds easy but this really is the only way to deal with it. Have tried and read a lot of things but this is the best way for a lot of people to deal with these nasty things.

 

Good luck!!!

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

[Hamster]

Hello Skystreamer,

 

difficult situation, I can relate to what you are experiencing.

 

Just my thoughts: 

 

Quote: "I try to fight these thoughts, but they are so powerful that I find myself believing them many times throughout the day."

 

I know how this feels .... but don't "fight", you cannot "win" against your mind and/or it will drain a lot of energy.

What I am trying to do (after reading a book about it): I experience the sensation, I acknowledge it, I maybe even thank my mind for trying to protect me from a stressfull situation (that's what our mind is trying to do). But then my "rationally thinking self" tries to take over again and decides what is good for me and what has to be done.

Easier said than done and I've failed many times. But I rarely "won" a fight against my mind.

 

I also know the urge to do something in terms of med changes. But when it comes to updosing now I join the advice of the other respondants. Keep it stable for the time being.

Take care!

 

Hamster

[Hamster]

Another thought about your lip issue: Check out the possibility of antihistamine withdrawal effects. 
Getting off an antihistamine cold turkey after long time use can cause things like itching and maybe that's one of the root causes of your skin issue.

 

Hamster