SkyStreamer: tapering off Cipralex / escitalopram safely

[SkyStreamer]

Thanks for your responses @Hamster @jozeff & @Gridley

 

Holding off on my tapering for a good while sounds like sound advice. I'm so suggestible in these states that it's almost impossible to differentiate between helpful and unhelpful advice, unless, of course, if it's extreme.

 

This job involves some writing and my brain is not able to write that well in this state. And, I have good writing skills! I just can't seem to form sentences well, think of proper words, or connect sentences and ideas together. Its all so foggy and so frustrating. I used to be so good at writing when not in these sensitive states. 

 

Everything in my day-to-day life right  now is like giving birth. Everything is extremely difficult. In many instances, it feels like life, itself, is an impossible task and some cruel overseeing Being is simply torturing me by allowing me to live and asking me to persevere. Its exactly like the story of Sisyphus, who had to try and roll the circular bolder up the mountain and place it on a very fine point, only to have it repeatedly fall down again and again, over and over.

 

I'm really not sure that I will make it through this job. I'll give it my best shot, but I really don't have a lot of hope in things turning out well. That's the truth. 

[wantrelief]

2 hours ago, SkyStreamer said:

Everything is extremely difficult.

I totally get what you mean, SkyStreamer.  I really admire that you are even trying the job - that takes a lot of courage.  Wishing you the best with the job and everything else.

[SkyStreamer]

Thanks @wantrelief I appreciate your kind comments.

 

[SkyStreamer]

I am desperate for books on enduring withdrawal and recovering from it. Does anyone have any recommendations??

 

I'm down to 6.9mg of my Cipralex dose, and just started working part-time at an outside office after working form home part-time for 3 years. I will be moving to full-time at this office in a few weeks.

 

I am going through an agonizing time with a lot of anxiety and depression since I started working part-time in this office job. Before this, my symptoms were tolerable. 

 

So far, I have only come across one book: "Recovery and Renewal" by V Baylissa Frederick.  

[SkyStreamer]

I've slowly developed a lot more WD symptoms over the last month: higher levels of anxiety, more intense depression, racing thoughts, lightheadedness, irritability, agitation, sore neck and back, and a big intolerance for stress.

 

I just started working part-time over 2 months ago, and will be starting a 32 hours a week job this coming January. I'm scared that I will spiral out of control once I start working these full-time hours. 

 

I don't know if I should go ahead with this or not? I'm really scared, and my mind is constantly telling me that things will end up very bad for me if I do take on these full-time hours.

 

Is there any way that I can know for sure, before I start, whether this 32 hour per week position will be the ruin of me? Or, is it simply something I will have to try in order to know?

[SkyStreamer]

Please help - I really need some advice!

[SkyStreamer]

In my three years of withdrawal, there have been many things I've been very anxious about doing, but was still able to do. And, there have been some things that I was very anxious about that I wasn't able to do. The presence of anxiety, for me, isn't an indication of a likelihood of failure - it's merely a sign that I have uncertainty and that I'm scared and worried about one possible outcome. 

 

I've done my due diligence up to this point: I've talked to people I trust; I've tried to listen to my own heart; and, I've taken into consideration all the circumstances and factors related to this situation. In the end, I'm still not sure if working four-days per week is good for me. It may be beneficial or it may not be. So, I'm just going to go ahead and give it a shot. And, I'll try my best not to worry about or fear anything along the way.

 

Worse case scenario, if things don't work out: I end up leaving the job, recuperate for a period of time, and then try something else with the experience and knowledge I gained. 

[Gridley]

8 minutes ago, SkyStreamer said:

So, I'm just going to go ahead and give it a shot. And, I'll try my best not to worry about or fear anything along the way.

 

Worse case scenario, if things don't work out: I end up leaving the job, recuperate for a period of time, and then try something else with the experience and knowledge I gained. 

That sounds like a good plan, Skystreamer.

[Hamster]

On 11/26/2019 at 2:10 PM, SkyStreamer said:

I am desperate for books on enduring withdrawal and recovering from it. Does anyone have any recommendations??

 

Hi SkyStreamer,

 

no recommendations for books on withdrawal, but two books which helped me to cope with my symptoms (withdrawal-related or not): 

 

The User's Guide to the Human Mind: Why Our Brains Make Us Unhappy, Anxious, and Neurotic and What We Can Do about It / Shawn T. Smith

The Happiness Trap: Stop Struggling, Start Living /  Russ Harris, Steven Hayes

 

The first one was an eye-opener for me to find out why I went into depression in the first place (there are valid reasons for our mind to ruminate ...). The second book basically is about ACT. The focus is on acceptance (of our bad moods e.g.) and thriving nevertheless.  It helped me a lot to stop fighting with my mind.

 

Good luck!

 

Hamster

 

[SkyStreamer]

I'm a writer by trade. But, since my last few small drops in my dose, I have found writing to be very challenging. I have a hard time finding the write words, forming good sentences, and creating confluent paragraphs. And, my creativity seems to be at such a reduced level. Is this normal even for the very small reductions of my dose I've made in the last few months (i.e. 2%-3%)?

[Erell]

hi Skystreamer, 

 

I don't know if this is "normal" but in WD everything seems "normal" !

Maybe your CNS need time now to adapt to all the changes, even with small cuts : you could hold on your dose for some time to let it work.

 

Best wishes

[SkyStreamer]

Well, I've now been at this new job for close to two months. And, although there have been some very challenging times, and toxic people that I've had to deal with, I've survived thus far and seem to be doing better as the weeks go by. 

 

I was very worried about whether I could cope through this, but somehow I've managed. I'm very proud of myself for getting through this challenging period. Starting a new job is never an easy thing to do, and it is all the more challenging when experiencing WD. 

 

 

[SkyStreamer]

I was hit today with the most intense unpleasant feelings I've had in a long time: extreme despair, meaninglessness, complete lack of motivation, numbness, emptiness, indifference, anger, and rage. I haven't acted on any of these, but have just been experiencing them internally. It feels like a tsunami of indescribable, limitless pain and suffering. At one point, I tried to just feel it in my body, and it became even more painful and unpleasant. 

 

I don't know what to do in this state, other than to just try and accept and embrace it, and to try not to let it move into my mind where it will manufacture a whole army of negative thoughts. Gosh - It's such a torture of a challenge to even try to do this. 

[SkyStreamer]

I just recently lost my job a few weeks ago. It really hit me hard. I had experienced a lot of anger, sadness and despair over the situation, and a complete lack of motivation in terms of ever wanting to go back out in the 'public arena' and try again. The public arena is such a brutal, cruel, unfair and emotionally violent place, and it's tough to want to get back up over and over again and walk back into it. It reminds me of the ancient greek myth of Sisyphus, who had to try and roll the boulder to the top point of a mountain over and over again, only to have it fall back down to the very bottom every time. 

 

Despite my struggles, I have a very strong will to continue to try. But, the constant blows of life and the amount of times that fortune's wheel moves me downward makes it very difficult at times to want to keep trying.

 

Then, there's the constant stream of negative, fear-based and anxious thoughts that are going through my mind. Since I tapered, I always seem to be experiencing these side effects to some degree. It's like I'm constantly in a state of WD that is continually oscillating between high intensity and lower, more manageable symptoms. It's such a dark and difficult place to be in. I didn't realize just how difficult tapering off these pills would be. It's almost like I have to be open to losing everything to come off them because that is what seems to occur. As I continue on this journey, I find it more difficult to function out in society, harder to maintain a healthy relationship with my spouse, and a huge challenge not to give into the fear, anxiety and negativity that constantly arises in my mind.

[SkyStreamer]

I ended up forgetting to take my pill yesterday at 8am, like I normally do. Luckily, though, in the evening, I became aware of this. So, I took my pill first thing, which was around 9pm. I was a bit fearful that I would feel more WD from this. But, at least I noticed and ended up taking it on the same day. Will see how things go, and will just try to accept everything as it unfolds. 

[SkyStreamer]

I went down another 0.1mg today. It's just a small step, but it's still progress.

 

I had thought about not tapering at all during this pandemic. But, I'd rather do very small cuts, rather than none at all.

[SkyStreamer]

I'm experiencing a lot of anxiety and even some panic today. My anxiety today has been about a 9/10. It is normally between 4-6/10.

 

This is probably because of my 0.03mg reduction in the last three weeks (0.02mg three weeks ago & 0.01 two days ago). I didn't think it would affect me this much. Maybe it's a combination between this drop, the effects of isolation during the quarantine, and the fact that I recently lost my job. It's just difficult see, in the moment, exactly why this is occurring. But, it's likely a mixture of all these things.

 

 

[Cocopuffz17]

Hey! You have a great attitude towards this! Coming off these medications is very challenging. It sucks to hear you are having a hard time with your most recent drop. Hold, stabilize and drop again! Soon it will be a mere bad memory. I to have gone through this and it is not fun, but it is doable! 

 

Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed

[SkyStreamer]

On 4/18/2020 at 2:38 PM, Cocopuffz17 said:

Hey! You have a great attitude towards this! Coming off these medications is . . .

 

Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed

 

Thanks @Cocopuffz17 for your kind words and support!

 

That's a good way of thinking about it: not fun, but 'doable'!

 

I see you're also from Canada. Nice to have a fellow Canadian on here.

 

Are you completely off all medication?

[Cocopuffz17]

2 hours ago, SkyStreamer said:

 

Thanks @Cocopuffz17 for your kind words and support!

 

That's a good way of thinking about it: not fun, but 'doable'!

 

I see you're also from Canada. Nice to have a fellow Canadian on here.

 

Are you completely off all medication?

You are welcome! 
 

Yes! Mindset is everything ! 
 

Sure is! How’s your moose running ? 
 

Yes, I am just over 14 months drug free! 

[SkyStreamer]

I just started practicing the Wim Hof (Iceman) method. This involves three rounds of breathing each morning, followed by a cold shower. 

 

I've been doing it now for about 2 weeks. And, although it's difficult to establish any cause-effect relationship, I have noticed some benefits since I started this. I have a bit less stress and depression in the mornings, and more motivation for my daily tasks and routine. I also find that I have a little more power of deliberation to refrain from ruminating over negative thoughts.

 

I've only been doing this for about two weeks. But, I've heard that the longer you do it, the more benefits you experience.

[SkyStreamer]

As I've been accumulatively decreasing my dose, I've been noticing some different positive experiences from time to time: a bit more energy, more motivation to do things I won't have usually done before (i.e. baking), professional ambition, vivid flashes of memories from my childhood, and a more frequent enjoyment of life. 

 

I still have my challenging symptoms of withdrawal. But, before, that was really all I ever had. Now, the positive experiences are starting to sprout and appear more regularly. All very strange, but also very encouraging. 

[Cocopuffz17]

That is great to hear. These drugs literally turn you into a zombie and when you start feeling great normal human emotions you are on your way to being healed! I’m happy for you 😁.

[Cici]

I'm really happy for you too Skystreamer! Im going through this exact same thing too. I felt like the lepraxo was a smothering blanket over me, I felt that in the first few days of taking it. I never felt like any thing resembling 'me' the whole time on it and actually more anxious, paradoxically, as I was taking it for anxiety related OCD. Since coming down from 10 mg Im feeling more 'real', thats been a dose threshold for me. I love the image of things 'sprouting' like you  said, and also feeling my little child in me wake up after all this time. Welcome back xx

 

 

[SkyStreamer]

On 6/9/2020 at 8:36 PM, Cocopuffz17 said:

That is great to hear. These drugs literally turn you into a zombie and when you start feeling great normal human emotions you are on your way to being healed! I’m happy for you 😁.

 

Hi @Cocopuffz17 !

 

Thanks for your warm comments. You're right - the ADs do turn you into a zombie. The funny thing for me is that I wasn't really aware of this effect until I began tapering. It's only been recently that I look back and am able to recognize just how unmotivated, lethargic and apathetic I'd become.

 

You've also made a lot of progress. 75% improvement is significant progress. Congrats!

[SkyStreamer]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:52 AM, Cici said:

I'm really happy for you too Skystreamer! Im going through this exact same thing too. I felt like the Lepraxo was a smothering blanket over me . . .

 

Hi @Cici 

 

I appreciate your encouragement!

 

I started noticing flashes of light too after dropping below 10mg. 

 

I never realized that the tapering/withdrawal process could be so challenging. It's probably been the most difficult thing in my life I've ever done. But, totally worth it. And, in some strange way, I think it helps prepare us for the difficult rawness of life we'll probably experience when we're completely off our ADs.

 

I like the idea of our 'little child' returning. All of my windows and moments of progress have made me feel like a child again in some way.

 

What is your current Lexapro dose? And, how long have you been tapering for?

 

I've been tapering for about close to 4 years. I'm taking it very slow, but that seems to suit me better.. 

 

[Cocopuffz17]

5 hours ago, SkyStreamer said:

 

Hi @Cocopuffz17 !

 

Thanks for your warm comments. You're right - the ADs do turn you into a zombie. The funny thing for me is that I wasn't really aware of this effect until I began tapering. It's only been recently that I look back and am able to recognize just how unmotivated, lethargic and apathetic I'd become.

 

You've also made a lot of progress. 75% improvement is significant progress. Congrats!

 

Hey!

That resonates so much with me..... While I was medicated I did not know any different. SOOO true... looking back I was like wtf...... But now know all that was caused by the meds and now that I am healing from it I feel soooo much better 

 

Thank you! Still lots to go... but I am functional almost everyday now so that is great to what I was like before. 

[Cici]

I can relate sooo much to what you're  experiencing Skystreamer💜💜. Its so lovely to see it written down by another fellow voyager on this incredibly difficult journey. Yup, if we can make it through this we are going to come out of it with huge resilience and strength to face anything "out there".  

 

I'm on 8 mg, using the home - made solution method, coming off from 30 mg initially. Started 30mg in 2013 and been tapering from about 2017 (very chaotically at the beginning -not to be recommended!!!). Am doing it really slowly like you since getting to 10mg, literally only by 5 per cent and very long holds between. Being kind to that "little child" these days!!

 

Best of luck and healing wishes on your journey xxx

[SkyStreamer]

After experiencing a long-lasting window that brought me a feeling of freedom and authenticity I haven't felt for a very long time, I am now in the throes of an intense wave. I am currently experiencing a very high degree of anxiety, fear, discouragement, despair, self-criticism, self-judgement, and a strong feeling of overall deadness. I find it extremely difficult to enjoy anything presently - even the things that I have always enjoyed throughout my life.

 

In addition, my brain is operating at a very low level right now. My memory is bad. My critical thinking is off. And, I just can't seem to put two and two together when it comes to planning, brainstorming, and problem solving. It is very humiliating, especially since I have always been a high-achiever academically (I have a BA & two graduate degrees). Also, my father ingrained in me the belief that academic and professional achievements are the pinnacle and summit of life; so, this also adds an additional layer to my humiliation.  

I came across a very fake and cheesy Nike commercial this week, and one line in it really hit me. It said something along the lines of: 'sometimes you have to be willing to sacrifice everything for a belief.' Now,  I don't really like Nike and I know there ads are all fake and motivated by fitting in and profit, but this line really opened up something in my heart that I've tried to hold fast to during this long and agonizing taper: the idea that I really have to be willing to sacrifice everything in order to continue tapering and eventually be completely free from these drugs. This line helped me remember that the ultimate payoff of following through with this taper is my own personal inner freedom, authenticity and peace,  and that, in the end, this payoff is worth sacrificing everything for. 

[Gridley]

20 minutes ago, SkyStreamer said:

this payoff is worth sacrificing everything for. 

That's a great realization SkyStreamer.  Thank you for posting it.

 

You may already be aware of this link, patterns of recovery.  It describes the healing process really well.

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

 

 

 

 

[SkyStreamer]

6 minutes ago, Gridley said:

That's a great realization SkyStreamer.  Thank you for posting it.

 

You may already be aware of this link, patterns of recovery.  It describes the healing process really well.

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery 

 

Hi @Gridley - thanks for your message. It's a realization I need to keep reminding myself of over and over, because it represents my underlying motivation for beginning and and continuing this tapering process. But, as we all know, you can easily and repeatedly lose sight of your motivation as well as your end goal. 

Thanks also for this video link. I had never seen it before. I just watched it now, and although it's quite short, it describes the process very accurately. I'll probably try and rewatch this at least every month, just to remind myself of what I'm actually going through. The mind plays so many tricks on us. 

[SkyStreamer]

I've been thinking a lot about the influence of AD withdrawal on professional life.

 

For those of you who struggle maintaining a job while tapering, can you tell me what your biggest challenges are?

 

I'm having a really tough time trying to maintain my job presently, which is only part time. My biggest challenges include the following:

 

- Depression and being unmotivated in the mornings

- Extremely intense boredom with my work (if it is possible to have 'intense' boredom)

- A ton of discouragement and despair when I receive negative feedback or complaints about my work and ideas

- A constant desire to want to quit my work because of a lack of interest, enjoyment, and inspiration

- A lot of self-condemnation and self-criticism when I become aware of making a mistake, or when I receive negative feedback

- Hopelessness that my professional and financial situation will ever improve - whether on or off these drugs

 

I would appreciate hearing what others struggle with. Sometimes, I find it difficult to determine how many of these struggles are due to AD withdrawal, and how many of them are due to unresolved character and personality traits, which were created in childhood.

[ChessieCat]

It seems like you might have some bad thought patterns.  And remember, we all (even people not taking ADs or going through WD) go through patches in our lives when the regular hum drum of life and work gets to us.

 

You may be able to tweak this idea for your own situation.  When I go out I dread coming back home.  A lady I met once made the suggestion that I think of something that I could do when I got home.  I did that and found that it helped.  In the end I didn't do what I had planned but I had something to look for to during my 1/2 hour trip home and because I didn't end up doing it I must have felt okay.

 

Something that I have noticed is that if I am unwell, or tired, or hot etc, continually saying to myself that I am feeling that way seems to make it worse.  There is a difference between being factual, thinking yes I am hot (matter of fact type of voice), and oh I'm so hot (whining and complaining).  Adding to the fact statement can help too.  Thinking yes I'm hot because it is x degrees, or I'm dressed in black and in the sun, or I'm tired because I didn't sleep well last night.  You can also add more by saying hopefully I will feel better tomorrow.

 

Another thing that I have found helpful is something that I've used with my taper, looking at how far I've come, not how much longer I have to go.  If I get behind on the washing up and there is a lot to do, I used to look at what was left to do and it would make me feel down, but if I change that and look at how much I've got done I find my enthusiasm increases. 

 

You might also find it helpful to learn some self help techniques.  This website has some excellent self help resources.  Scroll down the page to see the list:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/selfhelp.htm

 

There are several topics about thoughts, and you can easily find them by doing a Ctrl + F and type in thought.

 

[SkyStreamer]

On 8/10/2020 at 7:32 PM, ChessieCat said:

It seems like you might have some bad thought patterns . . .

 

 

Thanks for your comments and suggestions @ChessieCat !

 

I know there is wisdom in what you say. I definitely have some negative and unhelpful thought patterns, as well as false assumptions and beliefs. I'm just having a tremendously difficult time overcoming these patterns, and a lot of these patterns seem to me to be out of my control. It's almost like I am unable to let go of them. They have been so strong and powerful these last few months that it seems like I cannot detach or distance myself from them. 

 

It's kind of like what Claire Weekes says about fear. She mentions that there is a a level of fear that is unavoidable, but we have the choice as to whether this layer of fear grows and becomes bigger. I seem to be experiencing  to a layer of negative thinking and false beliefs that are unavoidable, and the only thing I seem capable of doing is not making them grow and become bigger. 

 

I'm a little confused about the degree to which we can improve our negative thoughts and feelings when we are in the throes of a wave (which I feel like I've been in for the last few months, off and on). Sometimes I feel like believing that I have control is really only preparing myself for more failure and discouragement. There are just so many times when I try not to be consumed by these things, and instead try to observe them, and I always get more frustrated because nothing really improves that much. The only hope I sometimes have is that I can at least try and accept my seeming inability to overcome these negative thoughts and beliefs.

 

When the waves subside, and a window opens up, I seem to have a lot more room and power to let go of negative thoughts and feelings. It just seems to happen naturally when applying various self-help techniques and practices. But, in the midst of waves, I never really experience this. 

 

I remember a former moderator saying that when he experienced waves (after reducing 10%), he never really felt like the self-help work did much to alleviate his symptoms. He said that all he seemed capable of doing was hunkering down, holding on, and waiting for the storm to pass. In many ways, I feel like this is my experience too. 

[ChessieCat]

  

On 8/23/2020 at 3:00 AM, Brooke said:

 

I'd say it took about a year for me to feel "in control" of the waves. And by that I mean that they didn't scare me anymore, and my attitude was more of "put on your seatbelt, here we go again" rather than "oh no, what if this never ends and this is who I am forever?" Once I accepted them as part of the situation, they didn't have as much of a handle on me and I was able to work and live through them in a more productive and nurturing way. 

 

 

[SkyStreamer]

I am really really really struggling with a lot of negative, painful emotions right now: despair, anger, discouragement, depression, extreme fear and worry, and overall deadness. I am so tired of trying over and over and over again, only to hit another wall and experience the same pain and suffering all over again. 

 

I had a part-time job, which I lost some months ago. It was an office job, and the environment was quite toxic. I tried my best. I did what I could. But, things were so stressful and tension arose between myself and a few other staff members in the office. And, then I was let go.

 

Then, I got a contract job that required renting an office. I thought I could do around 25-30 hours a week of work, pay off my office expenses, and still have enough money coming in to help pay the bills. But, I was wrong. As hard as I tried, I was only able to do about 10-15 hours a week. This was not enough to justify the expenses, and so, I quit.

 

Now, I'm so discouraged at these 'failed' attempts at work that I feel like just quitting altogether. There's a part of me that is just so sick and tired of hitting these walls. I feel so demoralized, so helpless, so unproductive, so valueless. I feel like this life is an objectively impossible task for me right now, and yet I am feel the pressure to get back up and try again. It conjures up the eternal agony of the tale of Sisyphus. I'm so tired of trying again, and hitting walls every time. 

 

And, yet I have some significant financial debt, and so there is a practical need for me to bring in some money to try and bring this amount down and eventually pay it off. 

 

My wife says she's open to working once or twice a week to help out. So, there is some hope here. But, my wife is also somewhat emotionally abusive when she brings in more money. Last time this happened, a few years ago, she made a point of hoarding the money from me, and keeping me out of family spending decisions. When I told her I was hurt and resented this, she simply said 'now you know how it feels not to be the bread winner and have no control over the money.' So, this option causes me a lot of fear and anxiety.

 

It's just such a mess all the way around - no matter how I look at it or what lens I am perceiving things through. I'm growing weary and am losing motivation to keep trying. I'm just so overwhelmed by so many negative emotions and challenging life circumstances.